What's with the Jesus skywriting?

[JennyMominRI]

I do not know a lot about Judaic law and I know Jenny says it is constantly changing, but I believe I read there are over 600 Jewish laws that should be followed. If it is constantly changing or in a state of reform, it makes a very gray line to follow. This is what Jesus was talking about to the Pharisees being so bound by the laws.

613,and like I said,some are for the temple(which no longer exists), some are for men, some are for women,some are for priests(which no longer exist)..Some are about how we should treat slaves, but that does not mean we should go out and get a slave so that we can keep the laws concerning them. Some are about farming and pertain to farmers,but that doesn't mean we need to go buy a farm to keep them.
This is a Judicial System,much like the US judicial system..Within the US there is a body of laws to be kept by the entire country..Now some of the laws of the US refer to property ownership...Someone who does not own property would not deal with those laws..Some laws are about patents/ copywrites etc...Those laws would pertain to people involved in that area. I'm an American but I do not need to go out and invent something so I can keep laws regarding patents
Jewish law applies to Jewish people as a whole ,but every single law will not be applied by ever single person

 

[JennyMominRI]

That alot of how it is for Christians too.There are laws we are suppose to keep.We are suppose to try to be more like Christ,but it doesnt happen all at once,it happens over time.

See,lots of common ground.

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

I don't have any trouble reconciling the OT "Jealous God of Vengeance" with the NT "God of Peace and Love".

I just figured that, like many humans, God mellowed out after He had a kid.

I Love that! There are many sides of G_d. Jenny, can we ask you to post some of them from the Tanakh?

 

[JennyMominRI]

I Love that! There are many sides of G_d. Jenny, can we ask you to post some of them from the Tankakh?

Do you want me to post some of the 613 mizvot?

edited to add,these would come from the Oral Torah AKA the Talmud...Does that work?

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

Do you want me to post some of the 613 mizvot?

edited to add,these would come from the Oral Torah AKA the Talmud...Does that work?

No the names of God like Elohim, El Shaddai, etc. And yes if may be from the Talmud.

 

[JennyMominRI]

No the names of God like Elohim, El Shaddai, etc. And yes if may be from the Talmud.

El
elohim
Adonai
Hashem(the name) This one is used all the time

Here is a link

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=52&letter=N

 

[graygables]

We have different opinions of what is "just." I personally don't consider an omnipotent being killing babies and children out of "jealousy" or for the sins of their parents or their great^15 grandparents as "just"... again, especially when done by an allegedly Good and omnipotent being who supposedly created and "loves" them.

Slaughtering/drowning/sending-followers-to-hack up babies is never "just," IMO, no matter who or what does it. Smacks more of pure Evil to me. But to each their own.

this is because in 20th century America, babies were treasured (at least until the last half, anyway) and seen as sweet, innocent, loveable, cuddly, soft, well, babies. Other cultures do not necessarily see children in that way, and certainly not in historical times. The reason God told the Israelites of the OT to wipe out the entire civilization was to prevent the children from growing up and become a "suicide bomber" out of hatred for the victor. They weren't to leave anything that could potentially be a threat. And, in the 21st century, as long as terrorists are out there having babies, there will never be an end to terrorism b/c they are going to be reared within the same confined culture that hates Americans and everything we stand for. It's the same concept, only "civilized" nations don't do anything about it, even when presented with photo albums happily displaying babies dressed up in suicide bomber gear. Do I advocate killing children? No. Do I think the children are "innocent"? No, they are indoctrinated. Unless there is a break in the indoctrination, whether it be in a terrorist culture, an inner city drug culture, or any culture of violence, those things will continue to be part of the world in which we live.

As a side note, I, personally, get peeved when people want to hate God for telling the Israelites to kill babies, but applaud the Supreme Court when they tell Americans that it's OK to kill them.

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

this is because in 20th century America, babies were treasured (at least until the last half, anyway) and seen as sweet, innocent, loveable, cuddly, soft, well, babies. Other cultures do not necessarily see children in that way, and certainly not in historical times. The reason God told the Israelites of the OT to wipe out the entire civilization was to prevent the children from growing up and become a "suicide bomber" out of hatred for the victor. They weren't to leave anything that could potentially be a threat. And, in the 21st century, as long as terrorists are out there having babies, there will never be an end to terrorism b/c they are going to be reared within the same confined culture that hates Americans and everything we stand for. It's the same concept, only "civilized" nations don't do anything about it, even when presented with photo albums happily displaying babies dressed up in suicide bomber gear. Do I advocate killing children? No. Do I think the children are "innocent"? No, they are indoctrinated. Unless there is a break in the indoctrination, whether it be in a terrorist culture, an inner city drug culture, or any culture of violence, those things will continue to be part of the world in which we live.

As a side note, I, personally, get peeved when people want to hate God for telling the Israelites to kill babies, but applaud the Supreme Court when they tell Americans that it's OK to kill them.

God was working to fulfill His Promise, His covenant with Israel, which had to be accomplished. He is bound by His Word.

 

[Joyce Kingkade]

El
elohim
Adonai
Hashem(the name) This one is used all the time

Here is a link

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=52&letter=N

Thanks for the link!

 

[JoyG]

So I am honestly asking those folks who see the Bible divided into two sets of rules - whether you call them laws vs principles, or "rules to atone for sin" vs "other rules", how do we know which is which? Is it something spelled out in the Bible. Or is it choices that we make about which rules to follow (just as you choose to build a Sukkah, but not keep kosher).

I think a good rule of thumb (although not perfect I'm sure) for deciding which ones apply and which ones don't is to look at the life of Jesus, his apostles, and the Pauline christians.

If a principle from the OT is mentioned, alluded to, or demonstrated in the NT we should assume that it still applies.

For example, tithing is an OT principle, but I believe it was also alluded to in the NT so would apply.

 

[Lorelai]

All I ask of people is that if they are going to claim to be Christian, don't cherrypick -- read the whole book and accept it all, and know exactly what you are accepting about the "God" you worship, if you want to claim to be Christian.

If Christains believed that the OT was the full word, than Christians would not be Christians, they would be Jewish. If the Jews were to believe in the NT, they would be Chistian, not Jewish.

I can't speak for all Christians, but for me, the OT is often a misguided view of God. God sent Jesus because man did not have the full, or even the correct, understanding of what God was all about.

Jesus did not slaughter anyone. He was a peacemaker. I don't think you'll find any examples of Christ slaughtering in the NT. You will, in fact, find a multitude of examples of him defending those being pursecuted (stopping stonings, etc.).

So, as Christians, we listen to the word of Jesus because he came to spread a message of peace & tolerence. And he openly stated many things that conflicted with the OT...already used the example of eye for an eye vs. turn the other cheek. Think of the NT as the very reason why God sent Jesus, to set the record straight.

You can't tell someone that they are not Christian because the accept the NT as the true word of God, that's nonsensical. Fact is, there would be no reason for them to be Christian if the OT was their truth.

Try and think of it as an amendment, or update. For example, Americans could not believe that women have a right to vote if they follow the original documents governing our country. If they are to accept the old and the new as equal, then they should both believe that women should not vote, and that they should. It makes no sense.

You can't believe whole heartedly in two statements that directly conflict with one another. It's still the Constitution, it's just been updated to reflect changes. Jesus coming to earth was a big change, and that's why the New Testament is considered by Christians as the Bible.

 

[4theloveofdisney]

this is because in 20th century America, babies were treasured (at least until the last half, anyway) and seen as sweet, innocent, loveable, cuddly, soft, well, babies. Other cultures do not necessarily see children in that way, and certainly not in historical times. The reason God told the Israelites of the OT to wipe out the entire civilization was to prevent the children from growing up and become a "suicide bomber" out of hatred for the victor. They weren't to leave anything that could potentially be a threat. And, in the 21st century, as long as terrorists are out there having babies, there will never be an end to terrorism b/c they are going to be reared within the same confined culture that hates Americans and everything we stand for. It's the same concept, only "civilized" nations don't do anything about it, even when presented with photo albums happily displaying babies dressed up in suicide bomber gear. Do I advocate killing children? No. Do I think the children are "innocent"? No, they are indoctrinated. Unless there is a break in the indoctrination, whether it be in a terrorist culture, an inner city drug culture, or any culture of violence, those things will continue to be part of the world in which we live.

As a side note, I, personally, get peeved when people want to hate God for telling the Israelites to kill babies, but applaud the Supreme Court when they tell Americans that it's OK to kill them.

So God didn't want competition and the best way to deal with that is to kill those who oppose you and therefore they won't be able to continue to multiply and create a force that goes against you. Wow. This is acceptable? I DON'T GET THIS! I must be crazy but this smells of cult. BTW, I grew up listening to these stories and as I grew up I just never "got that message"!

And... thank you but I don't want my children "indoctrinated" into anything that allows their heads being chopped off before they reach puberty. I'm kind of attached them.

I won't even go into the Supreme Court rulings. That's a whole other thread waiting to boil.

 

[4theloveofdisney]

If Christains believed that the OT was the full word, than Christians would not be Christians, they would be Jewish. If the Jews were to believe in the NT, they would be Chistian, not Jewish.

So who's right?

 

[4theloveofdisney]

God was working to fulfill His Promise, His covenant with Israel, which had to be accomplished. He is bound by His Word.

So he fulfilled his covenant at all costs.

 

[Lorelai]

So who's right?

Easy one...Christians believe they are, Jewish people would probably say they are, I'll bet Buddhists think they are, and, again, I'll go out on a limb to say that Athiests believe they are. Just add any other religion, lack of religion, whatever...and you get your answer. We all have different beliefs, follow different writings and we all think we're right. Because why?? Because we have either Faith in a being, or a lack of Faith in a being.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Easy one...Christians believe they are, Jewish people would probably say they are, I'll bet Buddhists think they are, and, again, I'll go out on a limb to say that Athiests believe they are. Just add any other religion, lack of religion, whatever...and you get your answer. We all have different beliefs, follow different writings and we all think we're right. Because why?? Because we have either Faith in a being, or a lack of Faith in a being.

Well,Jews generally believe that Judaism is right for Jews.. It's not neccessarily right for everyone else.

 

[Lorelai]

Well,Jews generally believe that Judaism is right for Jews.. It's not neccessarily right for everyone else.

Right on, we all follow our own path. I would assume that you believe your Faith is right for you, because you feel that the teachings of the Jewish Faith are true.

As a Catholic, I feel that my Faith is the Faith I was called to, it is my Faith. But I would never presume to tell my Jewish, Muslim, Mormon, Greek Orthodox, Agnostic friends that they had to be Catholic, because they're not. They are Jewish, Muslim, Mormon, Greek Orthodox.

 

[magicmato]

Well,Jews generally believe that Judaism is right for Jews.. It's not neccessarily right for everyone else.

And that is the difference. Most of the christians I know feel that Christianity is right for everyone, those who feel it is not are just "fighting it" or "misguided".

 

[Lorelai]

And that is the difference. Most of the christians I know feel that Christianity is right for everyone, those who feel it is not are just "fighting it" or "misguided".

Okay, I'm loving New Jersey right now.

We have so many different Faiths around here. We have Churches, Temples, Mosques all within a 15 mile radius. My kids go to school with kids of all backgrounds.

I don't think I've ever tried to plow down any of my neighbors Faiths. Nor have they mine. Today my son went to one of his friends Bat Mitzvahs, and he absolutely loved experiencing his friends Faith, just as I did, and still do.

In my town, we have a nativity, a menorah and a Kwanza display outside of the municipal building during the holiday season. I guess when you grow up in a diverse area, it just seems like no big deal that everyone is different.

Seriously, where the heck is everyone from that Christians are attempting to aggressively convert on a non-stop basis? Occasionally a Jehovahs witness might knock on my door, but man, I'm not chasing them off my porch with a broom. I just say "No thanks, I'm Catholic", take their pamphlet and say goodbye. No biggie.

 

[Aidensmom]

I can't speak for all Christians, but for me, the OT is often a misguided view of God. God sent Jesus because man did not have the full, or even the correct, understanding of what God was all about.

I agree with half your statement....to me the OT is not the full understanding of God. However, I believe it is correct.

My belief and understanding is that there are two ways to be "worthy" of God (as I believe God to be)...1) Keep the laws of the old testament or 2) Accept, acknowledge, and admit that Jesus took the punishment for your sins because you are incapable of keeping the laws, which is what the new Testament is about.

As sort of a disclaimer, that is a VERY summarized statement.