Voter Fraud ?

[Fitswimmer]

But isn't it important that the people who vote actually are entitled to that right? What would be an acceptable way to show that the voter is properly registered and voting legally?

I'm not really interested in giving everyone that walks into the polling place the right to cast a ballot. Good grief, you've got to show ID these days for everything else, why is having to prove who you are to do something this important such a bad thing?

 

[salmoneous]

why is having to prove who you are to do something this important such a bad thing?

Because the methods some people want to put in place to "prove" are near impossible for some people to accomplish.

The fact that the people who want to put the requirments in place are in the other party than the people they want to disenranchise is probably just a coincidence.

The fact is, you *don't* have to show formal picture ID for everything else. People can go about their lives just fine without it. Maybe not living the kind of life you live, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't get to vote.

 

[Gary M]

Not exactly. Overall, a higher percentage of the minority population is poor, compared to the percentage of the overall non-minority population. They may not have a drivers license, but only a social security card. They are often paid in cash (yes it is legal to do so) or have such small checks that the "check-cashing for a fee places" take the risk of no ID.

I said number of people, not percentage of people. Yes it's legal to get paid with cash, but that needs to be reported. They may not owe income tax, but will owe social security taxes. If you don't believe dead people vote, illegals cast ballots, alive people on the voting rolls who never vote, but other people vote using their names etc. then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. I know a guy who lives in Anderson, Indiana, that voted 12 to 15 times in each election. This was over 20 years ago and would be very difficult to do now since photo ID's are now required. He would be given a list of names and the voting place to go and vote for each one. The list was given to him by an official of a certain political party. He said several people in the community voted this way, including his brother. Their reward was the legal community looking the other way when they broke the law.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I do not want illegal aliens or any other felons voting. When you choose to commit a felony, you choose the consequences of that action and one of them in most states is you lose your voting privleges. The Democrats are pushing hard for this to end across the country, because they can then create another class of people that owe them something. Get enough people to owe you something, and you'll never lack for votes.

 

[Chuck S]

I said number of people, not percentage of people. Yes it's legal to get paid with cash, but that needs to be reported. They may not owe income tax, but will owe social security taxes.

Taxes have nothing to do with getting paid in cash. Employers pay in cash AFTER the appropriate taxes and deductions are taken out. A major employer in our area does this twice per year, in two dollar bills, so that the local businesses can see the impact of their employees. Some employers pay in cash on a regular basis. You do NOT have to give someone a physical paycheck to withhold the taxes, but you do have to provide them a statement of what was withheld.

Voting is a right under the constitution for all Americans, not a privilege of the upper class. If they require ID to vote, that ID must be available free. And yes, by sheer numbers, I'll bet there are more minorities classified as "poor" than there are non-minorities.

 

[eclectics]

Voting is a right under the constitution for all Americans, not a privilege of the upper class. If they require ID to vote, that ID must be available free.

I agree. It's a core right under our Constitution, not a privilege. A Driver's License is a privilege. If we need an ID to vote, then they should be issued to us without charge.

 

[sha_lyn]

Voting is a right under the constitution for all Americans, not a privilege of the upper class. If they require ID to vote, that ID must be available free. And yes, by sheer numbers, I'll bet there are more minorities classified as "poor" than there are non-minorities.

Oh please. Photo IDs aren't a luxury only available to the upper class. In fact photo ID are practically a necessity in todays world.
Free... thats a laugh. Do you think they grown on ID trees or something. The taxpayers will be paying for them.

 

[rie'smom]

As some previous posters have pointed out, there has been both voter fraud and election fraud for years. I think the electronic machines will help BUT there also needs to be a verifiable way to do a manual recount if needed, and a way to void a specific ballot. For instancae, once someone uses a touch screen, the machine could print out a "receipt" detailing how the vote was cast, along with an electronic ballot number. If the voter determines that the machine incorrectly counted their vote, or maybe even the voter pushed the wrong button, that ballot could be voided in the system and the voter could vote again. Maybe a barcoded number could print ONLY on the copy the voter gets, and that barcode would be needed to void the ballot.

Using those receipts, which after review could be dropped in an old fashioned locked ballot box, a manual recount could be performed if the candidates decided it was needed.

Right now, in our area, there is no paper trail. We have no way to do a recount, we just have to take the machines count. When we first started using the machines a few years ago, I went to verify my ballot on screeen, and many of the candidates selected were wrong. I cleared the vote and redid the ballot, the second time the screen indicated my correct choices and I pressed the "vote ballot" button. I haven't had that happen since, but what if there is a software glitch AFTER te ballot is cast?

Again, that being said, I like the touch screens (our county uses the Diebold system)...but I think there needs to be a paper trail for recounts.

I agree Chuck. Many times I've left the voting booth wondering whether or not my vote was recorded.

 

[Chuck S]

Oh please. Photo IDs aren't a luxury only available to the upper class. In fact photo ID are practically a necessity in todays world.
Free... thats a laugh. Do you think they grown on ID trees or something. The taxpayers will be paying for them.

Of course the taxpayers will be paying for them...but requiring someone to pay a fee to obtain a photo ID to be eligible to vote is equivalent to a poll tax. It is illegal.

 

[TheDoctor]

Here is a great example of a GOP dirty trick. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...6/11/07/AR2006110701756.html?nav=most_emailed

At least six chartered buses carried mostly poor, black men from as far as Philadelphia to hand out inaccurate voter guides in Baltimore and Prince George's County yesterday as part of an effort by backers of Gov. Robert L. Ehrlich Jr. and U.S. Senate candidate Michael S. Steele to woo black voters.

The glossy voter guide, paid for by the Ehrlich and Steele campaigns, pictured three of Maryland's most prominent black Democrats above the words "These are OUR Choices," even though two were not on yesterday's ballot and the other was running unopposed. Inside, under the heading "Democratic Sample Ballot," it listed mostly Democratic candidates as the preferred choices -- along with Ehrlich and Steele, who were not identified as Republicans.....

"It's a low point in Maryland politics," said Terry Lierman, chairman of the state Democratic Party. Lierman said he plans to contact the state attorney general's office to see whether any rules or laws were broken.....

But State Sen. Lisa A. Gladden (D-Baltimore), who was featured in a Baltimore version of the voter guide, said she was offended. "It is not illegal, but it is offensive," she said.

Several groups not affiliated with any campaign also focused yesterday on getting black voters to the polls. One effort resulted in a group of Steele supporters getting into a heated argument with voters at a church over campaign literature targeting Cardin.

A mailer, produced by a Bowie woman, urged support for Steele and declared: "Ben Cardin Promises to Attack Jesus Christ, Pastors, Churches and Christians and to Take Away Blacks' Freedom If He Is Elected." The Washington-based National Jewish Democratic Council called the flier "despicable" and "thinly-veiled anti-Semitism" aimed at Cardin, who is Jewish.

 

[salmoneous]

In fact photo ID are practically a necessity in todays world.

Photo ID's are practically a necessity it *your* world. Not everybody in American lives the way you do. But everybody does have the right to vote.

 

[sha_lyn]

You can't cash checks (including welfare checks) buy alcohol or some medicines (or even cigarettes depending on how old you look)etc without one.

Sorry no matter how many times you want to say it... requiring someone to prove who they are is not enforcing an illegal tax. Showing up with a bill/lease etc is not proof

As much as I hate "big brother" type stuff I swear it would just be easier if the voting machines had fingerprint scanners on them.

 

[Chuck S]

You can't cash checks (including welfare checks) buy alcohol or some medicines (or even cigarettes depending on how old you look)etc without one.

Sorry no matter how many times you want to say it... requiring someone to prove who they are is not enforcing an illegal tax. Showing up with a bill/lease etc is not proof

But there is a difference between requiring them to prove who they are and requiring them to BUY a voter ID or other specific state issued ID. They can prove who they are and the state can issue a photo ID at the states cost. But if the state says you must provide a state issued photo ID for which you paid, that is making people pay money to exercise their right to vote and is not legal.

Oh, but thanks for equating the right of poor folks to vote with cashing welfare checks, booze and smoking.

 

[sha_lyn]

Oh, but thanks for equating the right of poor folks to vote with cashing welfare checks, booze and smoking.

Thanks for glossing over the part about checks in general and medicines

I did not equate voting with those things. I gave several examples of why having a photo ID is needed

 

[Missy1961]

I don't drive. I have a state issued photo ID that cost me $12 and it's good for 8 years. I don't think that's too expensive.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Proving who you are is a fact of life. Honor slipped out of society long long ago that necessitated the need to prove who you are with some type of official identification.

 

[salmoneous]

You can't cash checks (including welfare checks) buy alcohol or some medicines

Huh? I cash checks (though not welfare checks), buy alcohol and medicine all the time without having to show my ID. Even if I couldn't - check cashing, alcohol and medicine buying aren't guranteed in the constitution. Voting is.

 

[Chuck S]

I don't drive. I have a state issued photo ID that cost me $12 and it's good for 8 years. I don't think that's too expensive.

That's nice, my DL cost $24 for 6 years. While it may not seem like a lot of money to you and I, a poor person, even a homeless person, has a constitutional right to vote, and collecting that $12 to $24 at any one time may not be possible or be required for food.

 

[sha_lyn]

How can a homeless person provide an address to prove what district they live in?

 

[salmoneous]

I don't drive. I have a state issued photo ID that cost me $12 and it's good for 8 years. I don't think that's too expensive.

What else was required in addtion to the $12? Would you let people vote who don't have all the requirements?