Voter Fraud ?

There is one race where the electronic voting machines appear to have given the election to the republican. http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061109/NEWS/611090343
More than 18,000 voters who showed up at the polls voted in other races but not the Buchanan-Jennings race.

That means nearly 13 percent of voters did not vote for either candidate -- a massive undercount compared with other counties, including Manatee, which reported a 2 percent undervote.

If the missing votes had broken for Jennings by the same percentage as the counted votes in Sarasota County, the Democrat would have won the race by about 600 votes instead of losing by 368, according to a Herald-Tribune review. Even if the undervote had been 8 percent -- more than three times what it was in Manatee -- Jennings would have won by one vote.

While some have speculated that people simply chose not to vote in the District 13 race, many voters say the unusual undervote was caused by badly designed touch-screen ballots, which they say hid the race or made it hard to verify if they had cast their vote.

More than 120 Sarasota County voters contacted the Herald-Tribune to report such problems, almost all regarding the Jennings-Buchanan race.....

But Hudson was skeptical that so many voters in Sarasota County would go to the polls and then not vote for the congressional race.

"It's a pretty dramatic number," Hudson said. "I believe you have to compare it to Manatee, Charlotte and DeSoto counties. They're in the same (congressional) district. They saw the same ads and got the same mail."
There is something fishy here.
 
my4kids said:
Second, I'm in Baltimore - and this is like a non-story here. It was a teeny tiny incident that was done by ONE person and given to a very SMALL amount of people (at like one polling place) The Washington Post was just doing it's part to get the fire going in case their candidates did not win, they would have already laid the ground work for the ugly law suits by the Deomacratic Party (because we all know Dem's are sore-losers).,
Again you are WRONG. This was a classic dirty trick. Here is a report from one of the victim of this GOP dirty trick.
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001973.php
A Philadelphia Inquirer columnist tracked down one of the unfortunate locals who had been tricked by the Michael Steele for Senate campaign to hand out deceptive pamphlets outside Maryland voting places. The result: a refreshingly candid indictment of the failed GOP candidate Steele, who now hopes to head up the Republican National Committee.

I might not have a home," an outraged Yusuf El-Bedawi told the Inquirer's Ronnie Polaneczky, "but that doesn't mean I don't care about right and wrong. No one has the right to use me that way."

The Steele campaign recruited six busloads of poor and homeless Philadelphians to hand out flyers to Maryland voters portraying Steele and his ticketmate, governor Bob Ehrlich, as Democrats. Steele is currently Maryland's lieutenant governor; Ehrlich is governor.

"People started screaming, at us, 'Do you think we're that stupid? What are you trying to pull?' " El-Bedawi told the writer. "I said, 'I didn't know it was a lie! I'm from Philly!' And they said, 'Then go back to Philly!' "
"I am so angry and upset, I don't know what to do," said El-Bedawi, who's particularly shattered that he and at least 200 other Philadelphians didn't get home from Maryland in time to vote here.
"These people think we're too stupid to understand the magnitude of what we did."

What they did, said El-Bedawi, was cheat an entire community of unsuspecting voters.

And just because they didn't know they were doing it doesn't mean it doesn't feel awful.​
The gop tries this stuff every election.
 
The gop tries this stuff every election.

Do you honestly believe that the GOP are the ONLY ones who do this??? If you do, I have a nice bridge to sell you across the Hudson River.

I've lived in Blue NJ my whole life and Democratic corruption around elections is so normal nobody even notices anymore. Even with that, I'm certainly aware that BOTH sides are not only capable of breaking the rules to their advantage-they both do it when it suits them.

Put DOWN the kool aid and see both the good and the bad about your party.
 

Fitswimmer said:
Do you honestly believe that the GOP are the ONLY ones who do this??? If you do, I have a nice bridge to sell you across the Hudson River.

I've lived in Blue NJ my whole life and Democratic corruption around elections is so normal nobody even notices anymore. Even with that, I'm certainly aware that BOTH sides are not only capable of breaking the rules to their advantage-they both do it when it suits them.

Put DOWN the kool aid and see both the good and the bad about your party.

You don't know Kyle like many of us know Kyle. :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2:
 
my4kids said:
Ok - first of all - The Washington Post is not exactly what we would call non-partisan or non-biased - It is the only newspaper that is openly further left of the Baltimore Sun.

Second, I'm in Baltimore - and this is like a non-story here. It was a teeny tiny incident that was done by ONE person and given to a very SMALL amount of people (at like one polling place) The Washington Post was just doing it's part to get the fire going in case their candidates did not win, they would have already laid the ground work for the ugly law suits by the Deomacratic Party (because we all know Dem's are sore-losers). Interestingly, I did not see ANY articles in either of the aforementioned liberal rags about how some idiot spray painted the word "corrupt" in big red letters on every large Erhlich (cand. for Rep. Gov and the incumbent) sign in town. As well as how most of his signs were stolen from in front of polling places. Not only was this dispicable, but so off base as Erhlich has been a very successful and popular Governor who has done nothing but improve the state I live in in 4 short years after inheriting the biggest mess made by Democrats anywhere. He is a good man - and it makes me sick in the pit of my stomach that he will no longer be our Governor because a pompous whiner who fancies himself as the next Jack Kennedy is stepping in to undo all the progress that was made.

By the way, Doctor of whatever your a "Doctor" of, the election is OVER. You can stop your absolute relentless tirade of liberal crap that you have been spewing all over the internet. You did you part, I'm sure you even swayed a couple stupid people who can't think for themselves, just like the Washington Post does...you can rest now, you did good.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :lmao: :lmao: Talk about SORE LOSERS!!!
 
Cannot_Wait_4Disney said:
We Democrats will make you a deal. If you Repugs will stop your voter suppression and intimidation, we'll stop reporting it.

:rolleyes:


Happens on both sides--and only gets investigated by the losing party.

(A generality--but so is your statement)
 
Anyone in Marlyand can tell me who one the 17th district. A college mate was running..not sure if it was state or federal level. In any case--just curious who the winners are. Just googled his campaign page and it doesn't say anything..I guess he didn't get it.

ETA: Nevermind--I found it on his website..he didn't win. I was really out of the loop--he didn't get the nomination for his party so didn't make it past the primary. NEVERMIND.
 
Here is more on why these voter ID laws are the current version of a poll tax. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/10/o...3dfa6bd4079fe7&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
Missouri is the latest front in the Republican Party’s campaign to use photo ID requirements to suppress voting. The Republican legislators who pushed through Missouri’s ID law earlier this year said they wanted to deter fraud, but that claim falls apart on close inspection. Missouri’s new ID rules — and similar ones adopted last year in Indiana and Georgia — are intended to deter voting by blacks, poor people and other groups that are less likely to have driver’s licenses. Georgia’s law has been blocked by the courts, and the others should be too.

Even before Missouri passed its new law, it had tougher ID requirements than many states. Voters were required, with limited exceptions, to bring ID with them to the polls, but university ID cards, bank statements mailed to a voter’s address, and similar documents were acceptable. The new law requires a government-issued photo ID, which as many as 200,000 Missourians do not have.

Missourians who have driver’s licenses will have little trouble voting, but many who do not will have to go to considerable trouble to get special ID’s. The supporting documents needed to get these, like birth certificates, often have fees attached, so some Missourians will have to pay to keep voting. It is likely that many people will not jump all of the bureaucratic hurdles to get the special ID, and will become ineligible to vote.

Not coincidentally, groups that are more likely to vote against the Republicans who passed the ID law will be most disadvantaged. Advocates for blacks, the elderly and the disabled say that those groups are less likely than the average Missourian to have driver’s licenses, and most likely to lose their right to vote. In close elections, like the bitterly contested U.S. Senate race now under way in the state, this disenfranchisement could easily make the difference in who wins.

The new law’s supporters say its purpose is to deter fraud. But there is little evidence of “imposter voting,” the sort of fraud that ID laws are aimed at, in Missouri or anywhere else. Groups in Missouri that want to suppress voting have a long history of crying fraud, but investigations by the Justice Department and The St. Louis Post-Dispatch, among others, have refuted such claims in the past. If the Legislature really wanted to deter fraud, it would have focused its efforts on absentee ballots, which are a notorious source of election fraud — and are not covered by Missouri’s new ID requirements.

Because of the important constitutional issues these laws raise, courts will have the final say. Federal and state judges have already blocked Georgia’s ID law from taking effect, and although Indiana’s law was upheld earlier this year, that ruling is on appeal. Missouri voting-rights advocates recently filed suit against their state’s law.

Unduly onerous voter ID laws violate equal protection, and when voters have to pay to get the ID’s, they are an illegal poll tax. They are also an insult to democracy, because their goal is to have elections in which eligible voters are turned away.
Cut out the false claims and just say that you want to go back to a poll tax because you do not want minorities to vote.
 
Look it is obvious that these voter id laws are nothing but a way to try to suppress the vote because the so called problem that these laws try to fix simply does not exist. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucas/20061015/cm_ucas/votingfraudismostlyamyth
Republican leaders have strained mightily to convince the courts that they are just protecting the franchise from voter fraud. Consider the widespread threat of illegal immigrants sneaking into the polls to vote, just as they sneaked into our country to work. Or those Dumpster-diving impostors who steal someone's light bill out of the trash and then use it as ID to cast a fraudulent ballot. Come on. I've heard 7-year-olds spin more convincing yarns.

According to USA Today, a preliminary report commissioned by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission has found little evidence of the sort of fraud that the burdensome new regulations purport to prevent. The bipartisan report found that "there is little polling-place fraud, or at least much less than is claimed, including voter impersonation, 'dead' voters, noncitizen voting and felon voters," the newspaper wrote. (USA Today was able to obtain a copy of the study, which has not been released. Wonder why?)

Here's what the Republicans are really up to: They want to shave off a small group of voters who tend to cast their ballots for Democrats, including the poor and people of color. With the nation cleaved by fierce partisanship, statewide contests are increasingly decided by very small margins. If the GOP can block just a small percentage of likely Democratic supporters, they figure they'll increase their chances for victory.
I would love to see some proof of the claims of voter fraud that the GOP want to prevent. Voter impersonation is simply not a problem according to a bipartisan commission. Given these laws are trying to solve a problem that does not exist, it is clear that the real reason for these laws is voter suppression and keeping groups that tend to support Democratic candiates from voting.
 
OK Doc, I give. If there were a white flag smilie I'd post it. Everything the GOP does is EVIL,EVIL EVIL, and everything the Democratic party does is GOOD, GOOD, GOOD.


You can go on with your life now and stop hunting for newspaper articles to pummel me with.
 
TheDoctor said:
I would love to see some proof of the claims of voter fraud that the GOP want to prevent.

Feds To Probe Voter Registration Problems
Election Director Calls 15,000 Registrations Problematic

POSTED: 1:21 pm CDT October 24, 2006
UPDATED: 7:19 pm CDT October 24, 2006

Email This Story | Print This Story

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- Kansas City election officials say thousands of questionable voter registration cards have been turned in by the same group whose efforts have been criticized in St. Louis.

Kansas City election director Ray James said the U.S. attorney and Jackson County prosecutor's office have been asked to investigate registrations collected by the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, known as ACORN.

James said more than 15,000 registrations have problems such as duplicates, questionable or unreadable information, or names, addresses and Social Security numbers that don't match existing records.


For example, the Kansas City Elections Office has seven different voter applications from the same person dated between Aug. 29 and Aug. 31, KMBC's Micheal Mahoney reported.

ACORN member Todd Elkins, who was at the election office on Tuesday checking the voting rolls, said it's possible the applicant was just friendly.

"And maybe he kept coming up to our voting canvassers and kept signing up," Elkins said.

"Seven times?" Mahoney asked.

"I'm saying it's a possibility," Elkins said.

Jackson County Election Board Director Charlene Davis showed Mahoney that a 19-year-old woman had filed 11 applications to vote.

"But they're all signed by her, same person. Incredible, isn't it?" Davis said.

In another case, the Election Board sent a letter out asking for a man to fill in some missing information on his voter form. Davis said the man's wife called back and said the man had been dead for 27 years.

ACORN officials said honest mistakes may have led to some of the problems with the registration cards.

"We were not trying to do anything undercover," director of ACORN Kansas City Claudia Harris said.

"There is some motivation behind this. This is not accidental," said Ray James with the Kansas City Election Board.

Harris said ACORN workers are paid by the hour, not the signature. She said they have fired some workers.

"There were five that I know of that have been fired and we turned them over to the authorities because they were doing things that were fraudulent," Harris said.

Davis said Jackson County plans to turn about 1,300 questionable ACORN applications over to federal investigators.

Earlier this month in St. Louis, election officials said at least 1,500 potentially fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in by the St. Louis ACORN branch.

ACORN paid people to collect voter registration cards in Missouri and 16 other states this year. Similar allegations have been made in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Denver.

And the results of the investigation:

ACORN Workers Indicted For Alleged Voter Fraud Thu Nov 2, 9:20 AM ET

Four people have been indicted on charges of voter fraud in Kansas City, officials said Wednesday.


Investigators said questionable registration forms for new voters were collected by the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, a group that works to improve minority and low-income communities.

The four indicted -- Kwaim A. Stenson, Dale D. Franklin, Stephanie L. Davis and Brian Gardner -- were employed by ACORN as registration recruiters. They were each charged with two counts.

Federal indictments allege the four turned in false voter registration applications. Prosecutors said the indictments are part of a national investigation.

ACORN and Project Vote recruit and assign workers to low-income and minority neighborhoods to register people to vote.

The Kansas City Election Board told KMBC they found suspicious forms, such as seven applications from one person and an application for a dead man.

"There is some motive behind it -- this is not accidental," said Ray James with the Kansas City Election Board.

Election officials said some of the application cards had false addresses, signatures and phone numbers.

ACORN officials in Kansas City said they turned in the four people who were indicted.

"We're very happy that they were indicted," said Claudie Harris with ACORN.

Harris said ACORN workers are paid by the hour and not by the number of voter registration cards they turn in. "When you fraudulently defraud this, that gives us a bad name and what we're trying to do a bad name," Harris said.

ACORN officials said the four indicted have been fired.

Harris said ACORN workers check every voter registration card before sending it to the Election Board.

Last month, ACORN claimed to have processed more than 35,000 voter registration applications in Kansas City since the summer.

Ongoing investigation of the same group (ACORN) in St. Louis....

Kyle, every election we hear "allegations" of voter supression and intimidation. Got any criminal indictments to back up those claims? Hint - opinion pieces do not constitute an indictment.
 
Here is a great NYT editoral that came out about a month ago. http://www.wisdems.org/ht/display/ArticleDetails/i/878520/pid/410442
One of the cornerstones of the Republican Party’s strategy for winning elections these days is voter suppression, intentionally putting up barriers between eligible voters and the ballot box. The House of Representatives took a shameful step in this direction yesterday, voting largely along party lines for onerous new voter ID requirements. Laws of this kind are unconstitutional, as an array of courts have already held, and profoundly undemocratic. The Senate should not go along with this cynical, un-American electoral strategy.

The bill the House passed yesterday would require people to show photo ID to vote in 2008. Starting in 2010, that photo ID would have to be something like a passport, or an enhanced kind of driver’s license or non-driver’s identification, containing proof of citizenship. This is a level of identification that many Americans simply do not have.

The bill was sold as a means of deterring vote fraud, but that is a phony argument. There is no evidence that a significant number of people are showing up at the polls pretending to be other people, or that a significant number of noncitizens are voting.

Noncitizens, particularly undocumented ones, are so wary of getting into trouble with the law that it is hard to imagine them showing up in any numbers and trying to vote. The real threat of voter fraud on a large scale lies with electronic voting, a threat Congress has refused to do anything about.

The actual reason for this bill is the political calculus that certain kinds of people — the poor, minorities, disabled people and the elderly — are less likely to have valid ID. They are less likely to have cars, and therefore to have drivers’ licenses. There are ways for nondrivers to get special ID cards, but the bill’s supporters know that many people will not go to the effort if they don’t need them to drive.

If this bill passed the Senate and became law, the electorate would likely become more middle-aged, whiter and richer — and, its sponsors are anticipating, more Republican.

Court after court has held that voter ID laws of this kind are unconstitutional. This week, yet another judge in Georgia struck down that state’s voter ID law.

Last week, a judge in Missouri held its voter ID law to be unconstitutional. Supporters of the House bill are no doubt hoping that they may get lucky, and that the current conservative Supreme Court might uphold their plan.

America has a proud tradition of opening up the franchise to new groups, notably women and blacks, who were once denied it. It is disgraceful that, for partisan political reasons, some people are trying to reverse the tide, and standing in the way of people who have every right to vote.
Again, these voter ID laws are simply part of the GOP's ongoing pattern and policy of voter suppression
 
Fitswimmer said:
OK Doc, I give. If there were a white flag smilie I'd post it. Everything the GOP does is EVIL,EVIL EVIL, and everything the Democratic party does is GOOD, GOOD, GOOD.


You can go on with your life now and stop hunting for newspaper articles to pummel me with.

This IS his life.
 
Bet

The voter ID laws are claimed to be stop a problem that the real experts agree does not exist. http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-10-10-poll-fraud-report_x.htm
WASHINGTON — At a time when many states are instituting new requirements for voter registration and identification, a preliminary report to the U.S. Election Assistance Commission has found little evidence of the type of polling-place fraud those measures seek to stop.

USA TODAY obtained the report from the commission four months after it was delivered by two consultants hired to write it. The commission has not distributed it publicly....

The bipartisan report by two consultants to the election commission casts doubt on the problem those laws are intended to address. "There is widespread but not unanimous agreement that there is little polling-place fraud, or at least much less than is claimed, including voter impersonation, 'dead' voters, non-citizen voting and felon voters," the report says.

The report, prepared by Tova Wang, an elections expert at the Century Foundation think tank, and Job Serebrov, an Arkansas attorney, says most fraud occurs in the absentee ballot process, such as through coercion or forgery. Wang declined to comment on the report, and Serebrov could not be reached for comment.

Others who reviewed the report for the election commission differ on its findings. Jon Greenbaum of the liberal Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law says it was convincing. The committee wrote to the commission Friday seeking its release....

The consultants found little evidence of that. Barry Weinberg, former deputy chief of the voting section in the Justice Department's civil rights division, reviewed their work. "Fraud at the polling place is generally difficult to pull off," he says. "It takes a lot of planning and a lot of coordination."
The experts disagree with you Bet.
 
WASHINGTON — At a time when many states are instituting new requirements for voter registration and identification, a preliminary report to the U.S. Election Assistance Commission has found little evidence of the type of polling-place fraud those measures seek to stop.

Bingo. So what this is is an effort to make it more of a hassle to vote. And they know the more hassle you make it to vote, the easier it is for them to win.

The report, prepared by Tova Wang, an elections expert at the Century Foundation think tank, and Job Serebrov, an Arkansas attorney, says most fraud occurs in the absentee ballot process, such as through coercion or forgery
.

Repubs just love that absentee voting don't they?
The bill was sold as a means of deterring vote fraud, but that is a phony argument. There is no evidence that a significant number of people are showing up at the polls pretending to be other people, or that a significant number of noncitizens are voting.

And for the overwhelming part, it's not the voters that were doing that. it would be the poll workers. Ie at the end of the day, they see the voter lists, add a bunch of votes, and check them off like they've voted. Dead people were voting not because John Q public was cheating. They voted because party hacks that worked the polls were cheating. It was far easier to do back when you had the lever machines with the straight party levers on them. Some jusrisdictions had them. All you had to do was walk into the booth and pull the party lever and walk out if you wanted a straight party ticket. The running joke in some areas was if you took the time to close the curtain, the boss was going to have a word with you because he knew you didn't just walk up and pull the party lever.

There is something fishy here.
Either
From what I've gathered in Florida 13, The machines in that part of the district presented the ballot in such a way as that one race could be missed easily Oh ooopsie. Sorry Miss Jennings. You would have won but we effed up. No No, it was a complete accident. I don't know what that programmer was thinking. Such a shame all the bad ones went to your best precincts. We do appologize from the bottom of our heart. It's such a shame this happened to you. It won't happen again.

And that's all it took.
 
TheDoctor said:
Bet

The voter ID laws are claimed to be stop a problem that the real experts agree does not exist. http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-10-10-poll-fraud-report_x.htm The experts disagree with you Bet.

You never cease to amaze me! :rotfl2: :lmao:

I think I'll listen to the real experts - the law enforcement officers and prosecutors in Kansas City who disagree with you, Kyle. You asked for proof. I gave it to you.

Perhaps you missed this part of the article:

Prosecutors said the indictments are part of a national investigation.
 
bsnyder said:
I think I'll listen to the real experts - the law enforcement officers and prosecutors in Kansas City who disagree with you
Your idea of proof and your idea of what constitues and exper are amusing. Post the links (even if you got this from the free republic) and I will look at it. I discount and do not waste my time when there are no links posted.
 
As much as I disagree with Bet's position, here is a link to the story: http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/politics/10214492/detail.html

But what I don't understand...if these people (ACORN) are out gathering voter registrations, and someone submits more than one form for the same individual (the article said one person had 7 registration requests) wouldn't the registrars computer system automatically detect those duplicates and simply ignore them? Assuming they had the same address & phone number, etc. So no harm, no foul on those. As far as registering deceased, wouldn't that same registrar have that info in a database to cross check and automatically bring it to someones attention for deletion? At least that is how it is supposed to work in our county here in TX.

If all the voter registration info is computerized, any duplicates, deceased registrants, or otherwise questionable entries should be flagged/cross referenced and automatically ask the person in charge of the voter registrations if they should be deleted. So even if those incidents happened, it should not impact an election.
 
Bet's story leaves out the fact that ACORN is the one who discovered the bad applications and reported it. http://www.commondreams.org/news2006/1106-05.htm
KANSAS CITY, Missouri - November 6 - Leaders of the community group ACORN today applauded the FBI for the steps it is taking to investigate individuals suspected in several cases of possible voter registration fraud that the group reported to authorities during a recent ACORN voter registration drive in the Kansas City area.

The individuals under investigation were temporary workers, hired--and later fired-by Kansas City ACORN (Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) to help in its large- scale voter registration drive, which helps thousands of Kansas City residents register to vote.

ACORN took the initiative on October 11 to contact the Kansas City Board of Elections and the Jackson County Prosecutor when the organization's standard review process identified suspicious voter registration applications. ACORN provided to the Board and the prosecutor a letter with the name and contact information of the former employees who had collected the suspicious application. ACORN then facilitated the subsequent FBI inquiry by providing internal records documenting ACORN's suspicion and other information as requested.. ACORN will continue to provide its full support and cooperation in the investigation.

"When we caught this misconduct, we reporter it to the authorities. Now we want to see these folks prosecuted to the full extent of the law, because they have defrauded our organization, and, worse, detracted from our mission of ensuring that citizens in our community participate in the democratic process," said Claudia Harris, Chairperson of Kansas City ACORN.

"Like the FBI, ACORN considers any interference in the voting process to be a very serious matter," Harris continued. "Across the state our attorneys today reached a settlement with the St. Louis Board of Elections to issue a retraction of the intimidating letter they sent out to thousands of voters we registered. Vigilance is needed to make sure that Scott Leindecker's St. Louis Board of Elections does not engage in any other dirty tricks to suppress the African American vote."

ACORN's voter registration drives are committed to one objective: Registration of eligible low-income and minority citizens who wish to vote and have their votes counted. In the past year, ACORN has helped tens of thousands of Missouri residents register to vote. As part of ACORN's voter registration program, ACORN has a comprehensive quality control that reviews all application for completeness and accuracy and calls applicants to verify their information. It was this process that identified the individuals who were referred to the Board and Prosecutors.
I found something similar to bet's story on a couple of the right wing nut case blogs. I have to go take a shower now after looking at the sites where bet gets her facts.
 


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