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[Goofyluver]

I'm sorry this statement above just cracks me up. Of course your forcing your beliefs on another, because by allowing something that someone else thinks should not be allowed your doing exactly that.

Take abortion out of the equation for a second, lets use gun ownership. Some people feel that everyone should have a choice regarding if they own a gun or not, others feel that guns should be outlawed. Since there is no way to meet in the middle the side that is getting their way is forcing the otherside to deal with them not having their beliefs followed.

I'm against abortion, but not for making it illegal, because I realize that legal or not they are going to happen so I would rather that only one life is ending instead of 2 as happened so often when they were not legal.

You can call it like you see it. And I'll call it like I see it.

I am not forcing my beliefs on anyone.

How do you know how I feel about abortion? Do you know what I believe about conception? Do you know what I believe about age of viability? Do you know my religious views as related to abortion?

Can you answer yes to ANY one of those questions.

You can't.

Pro-choice is not at all about forcing your beliefs on anyone else. It's about allowing the woman to choose what she does with her own body. It's not my business what a woman chooses to do with her uterus. My views matter none.

But, like I said...you go ahead and call it like you see fit.

And I'll continue to say...my "belief system" matters not at all. My views (and others) should be kept out of any woman's uterus.

 

[Master Mason]

You can call it like you see it. And I'll call it like I see it.

I am not forcing my beliefs on anyone.

How do you know how I feel about abortion? Do you know what I believe about conception? Do you know what I believe about age of viability? Do you know my religious views as related to abortion?

Can you answer yes to ANY one of those questions.

You can't.

Pro-choice is not at all about forcing your beliefs on anyone else. It's about allowing the woman to choose what she does with her own body. It's not my business what a woman chooses to do with her uterus. My views matter none.

But, like I said...you go ahead and call it like you see fit.

And I'll continue to say...my "belief system" matters not at all. My views (and others) should be kept out of any woman's uterus.

It matters not what your belief system is. This is one of the cases where something is completely black or completely white, there is no gray in this discussion. One side gets their way, the other side does not.

 

[Goofyluver]

It matters not what your belief system is. This is one of the cases where something is completely black or completely white, there is no gray in this discussion. One side gets their way, the other side does not.

That's not entirely true. While I do see your point.

If you are pro-life and do not believe in abortion...don't have one.

I am pro-choice...and I support your right to choose what you do with your own body. It's not my business what a woman does with her uterus. I don't need to express my opinions to you on the subject. It's up to the woman...and the woman alone.

 

[Rebelmom67]

It matters not what your belief system is. This is one of the cases where something is completely black or completely white, there is no gray in this discussion. One side gets their way, the other side does not.

I agree, as Red as I am, and oh boy AM I Red, I'm still not against abortion (I can't bring myself to type Pro-life because I'm NOT against life or pro abortion).

I'm a pro-choice conservative. I think the libs here believe that to be a bunch of bull hockey, but here I am.

 

[Master Mason]

That's not entirely true. While I do see your point.

If you are pro-life and do not believe in abortion...don't have one.

I am pro-choice...and I support your right to choose what you do with your own body. It's not my business what a woman does with her uterus. I don't need to express my opinions to you on the subject. It's up to the woman...and the woman alone.

The problem is that it is not a pro life vs pro choice discussion, although those euphimistic phrases have been co opted by both sides. The real question is proabortion or antiabortion.

To use the phrase, being prolife is not really being prolife it is being antiabortion, and that is proven by the point that lots and lots of "prolife" people are also pro death penalty people and that means they are not about life but rather against abortion. So it isn't just a matter of them not having one themselves, they believe that no one should have one.

Similarly, being prochoice means that your for someones abilty to have an abortion.

Yes I realize that this is all an exercise in semantics, but it is much easier to have a discussion on the issue and realize what it means to each side if you look at it from the reality of the situation rather than some sugar coated words.

As I have said numerious times, I am completely for keeping abortion legal, for reasons I have already stated, but I can also understand what the other side is saying because I'm not living in the sugar coated world.

 

[Master Mason]

I agree, as Red as I am, and oh boy AM I Red, I'm still not against abortion (I can't bring myself to type Pro-life because I'm NOT against life or pro abortion).

I'm a pro-choice conservative. I think the libs here believe that to be a bunch of bull hockey, but here I am.

I'm right there with you, I don't think that abortion should be made illegal, I don't like it and wish it was rare, but I also think it has to be safe because regardless of legality it will happen so I would rather it be safe.

 

[Goofyluver]

The problem is that it is not a pro life vs pro choice discussion, although those euphimistic phrases have been co opted by both sides. The real question is proabortion or antiabortion.

To use the phrase, being prolife is not really being prolife it is being antiabortion, and that is proven by the point that lots and lots of "prolife" people are also pro death penalty people and that means they are not about life but rather against abortion. So it isn't just a matter of them not having one themselves, they believe that no one should have one.

Similarly, being prochoice means that your for someones abilty to have an abortion.

Yes I realize that this is all an exercise in semantics, but it is much easier to have a discussion on the issue and realize what it means to each side if you look at it from the reality of the situation rather than some sugar coated words.

As I have said numerious times, I am completely for keeping abortion legal, for reasons I have already stated, but I can also understand what the other side is saying because I'm not living in the sugar coated world.

I support a woman's choice in what she does with her own body.

It's not a discussion simply set in semantics.

The discussion is about two different belief sets.

Feel free to call yourself what you wish.

I'll continue to call myself pro-choice. Not because it sounds better...not because I don't want to refer to myself as pro-abortion.

But, because it defines my feelings on the matters.

A woman should have the right to CHOOSE what she does with her own body.

If she chooses to have an abortion...then she should be allowed to do so.

If she chooses not to have an abortion...then she should not be forced to do so.

The term pro-choice implies just that...the woman making her own choice for the path she chooses to travel.

And there are clearly choices to be made.

 

[stacyp9]

The problem is that it is not a pro life vs pro choice discussion, although those euphimistic phrases have been co opted by both sides. The real question is proabortion or antiabortion.

To use the phrase, being prolife is not really being prolife it is being antiabortion, and that is proven by the point that lots and lots of "prolife" people are also pro death penalty people and that means they are not about life but rather against abortion. So it isn't just a matter of them not having one themselves, they believe that no one should have one.

Similarly, being prochoice means that your for someones abilty to have an abortion.

Yes I realize that this is all an exercise in semantics, but it is much easier to have a discussion on the issue and realize what it means to each side if you look at it from the reality of the situation rather than some sugar coated words.

As I have said numerious times, I am completely for keeping abortion legal, for reasons I have already stated, but I can also understand what the other side is saying because I'm not living in the sugar coated world.

Actually the appropriate terms are pro-choice and anti-choice. The anti-choice believe that a pregnant woman should have no say about her whether to continue her pregnancy, that the government should decide for her. Pro-choice supporters believe the government has no business legislating a woman's body.

Tell me what do you think should happen to say a single mother of three that has a abortion? Prison?

 

[Master Mason]

Actually the appropriate terms are pro-choice and anti-choice. The anti-choice believe that a pregnant woman should have no say about her whether to continue her pregnancy, that the government should decide for her. Pro-choice supporters believe the government has no business legislating a woman's body.

Tell me what do you think should happen to say a single mother of three that has a abortion? Prison?

see here is the problem, your making an assumption that I am anti abortion, which I am not, I don't like it but it's not my place to dictate that.

But the answer to your question from the anti abortion people would be yes prison. If your single mother of 3 poked a baby in the head and killed it she would go to jail, and the anti abortion folks concider it to be the same thing.

 

[Master Mason]

I support a woman's choice in what she does with her own body.

It's not a discussion simply set in semantics.

The discussion is about two different belief sets.

Feel free to call yourself what you wish.

I'll continue to call myself pro-choice. Not because it sounds better...not because I don't want to refer to myself as pro-abortion.

But, because it defines my feelings on the matters.

A woman should have the right to CHOOSE what she does with her own body.

If she chooses to have an abortion...then she should be allowed to do so.

If she chooses not to have an abortion...then she should not be forced to do so.

The term pro-choice implies just that...the woman making her own choice for the path she chooses to travel.

And there are clearly choices to be made.

Your right, the discussion is over two sets of beliefs, one believes that abortion should be legal, one does not. It's really very simple, if you believe in the right to choose, you must also believe that abortion should be legal. If your against abortion, you feel it should be illegal. And there is no middle ground because you can't have a half dead baby, it is either alive or it is dead.

 

[JennaTX]

PETA has a lot to do with it in my view because the vast majority of in your face democrates ie,.hollywood celebrities are very pro abortion and at the same time are huge PETA supporters. It really confuses me that there is an in your face organization that is for the ethical treatment of animals and these very same people think that murdering babies is not a problem.

Tina

Are you comparing babies to animals?

I am pro choice but even if I was not I would not compare (in your words) "murdering babies" to the ethical treatment of animals.

 

[Master Mason]

Are you comparing babies to animals?

I am pro choice but even if I was not I would not compare (in your words) "murdering babies" to the ethical treatment of animals.

so it would be ok to murder babies but not treat animials poorly??

 

[bicker]

There is a place for compromise between the two positions; the problem is that the anti-abortion folks are absolutists in this dispute: They want their way to apply to everyone. Pro-choice folks have offered compromise positions, such as limiting the procedure to the first and second trimesters. What happens when one side offers to compromise, and the other side refuses to budge? That kind of betrayal of human decency by the anti-choice folks -- i.e., the refusal to respect people other than themselves enough to treat the beliefs of those other people with enough respect so as to work towards a compromise -- that betrayal poisoned the pool and has led us to this point.

 

[pixie dust 112]

I'm darned if I know why I let myself be baited by statements like these, but I've got another question for you. You say you've dealt with infertility, I'm sure your children are infinity precious to you, and that you take your responsibility to raise them VERY seriously.

What if fate (or God, if you prefer) made you choose between the welfare of your existing children and carrying a pregnancy to term? I was put in that position three years ago. The situation was that the child I was carrying was suffering from a fatal malformation and would not survive outside my body. Because of the buildup of toxins caused by that condition, my kidneys were rapidly failing. The choice that I was faced with was to choose between carrying that pregnancy to term and probably dying from kidney failure, leaving my living children motherless, or terminating.

I have a sacred responsibility to ALL my children - I chose to terminate.

What a thing to go through! You made a loving and responsible decision.

I had a friend who needed to do something similar. S was diagnosed with cancer when she was pregnant. She would not live through the pregnancy without chemo and would not last long enough for the child to survivie either. She had 2 small children at the time. She chose to terminate the pregnancy and recieve the chemo. She was able to have the chemo. She went through years of treatment and now, 15 years later is fine and was here to raise her 2 beautiful daughters.

 

[joviroxx]

For those of you that are pro-choice but say you aren't pro-abortion can I ask why you wouldn't be able to have an abortion or not for abortion for yourself?

 

[Laura]

For those of you that are pro-choice but say you aren't pro-abortion can I ask why you wouldn't be able to have an abortion or not for abortion for yourself?

Every woman has her own beliefs, and I'm not interested in imposing my beliefs on someone else. I used to be staunchly pro-life, but I learned I was trying to make everyone believe what I do. What I would do in a certain situation is not necessarily what another woman would do. I might believe that life begins at conception, another woman might believe that isn't the case.

 

[bicker]

It is a bit like the other major moral issue of today, same-sex marriage. I would never marry a man, or engage in any type of homosexuality. However, that doesn't mean other people shouldn't have their right to do so protected.

 

[joviroxx]

It is a bit like the other major moral issue of today, same-sex marriage. I would never marry a man, or engage in any type of homosexuality. However, that doesn't mean other people shouldn't have their right to do so protected.

Disclaimer: These comments are not for those that do not believe its a child and feel its purely a physical situation.These comments are NOT for those that have no moral issue with abortion (which is fine btw)

Marriage isn't murder or protecting another human life. Im anti-abortion but have reluctantly accepted to leave it legal for safety reasons as people will do it anyway.

But, that doesn't take away the fact that I still see it as murder and stealing human rights from another human being. I realize that not everyone thinks that way, but regardless of how someone else believes, I feel that way with my child, your child and any other potential life. Who created the child does nothing to change my view. If my neighbor chooses to have an abortion, her choice, its still murder in my eyes.

I guess that even with the inevitabiilty of abortion, I don't get the sugarcoating it. Call it what it is if that's what you believe even though you don't agree with it. You are giving others the right to murder a child. I've accepted it when I took my stance.

 

[eliza61]

This seems to be such a passionate subject, I have a few questions. Have any of you who are so pro abortion ever had an abortion? Witnessed an abortion? Or even seen a video of an abortion? Finally how many of you are members of PETA?

Yes I have. After a pregnancy resulting from a sexual assualt. I thank God each and every day I was able to have a safe, legal abortion. My mom and my grandmother who went with me also thank God for it.

Not a member of peta but a proud pet parent and a supporting of the Humane society and ASPCA that eats beef and wears leather.

What's your point?

 

[Master Mason]

There is a place for compromise between the two positions; the problem is that the anti-abortion folks are absolutists in this dispute: They want their way to apply to everyone. Pro-choice folks have offered compromise positions, such as limiting the procedure to the first and second trimesters. What happens when one side offers to compromise, and the other side refuses to budge? That kind of betrayal of human decency by the anti-choice folks -- i.e., the refusal to respect people other than themselves enough to treat the beliefs of those other people with enough respect so as to work towards a compromise -- that betrayal poisoned the pool and has led us to this point.

the problem with that to the anti abortion crowd, is it is not a compromise, it is still happening within the first 6 months of a pregnency. There is no place for compromise because one can't be partially dead, your either dead or your not (dispite what billy crystal said in princess bride).

The same problem exists for those on either side of the death penalty case.