Uvalde

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john7994

DIS Veteran
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Mar 20, 2022
Honest question, he as an 18 year old is an adult and therefore he has the RIGHT under our constitution to own firearms. What kind of limit are you talking about, no AR? Do you think if he was not allowed to by that but allowed to by another type of rifle he would have decided not to kill all those kids?
I think you already know the answer ... So what's the fix? Gotta give to get in this world ... so what's the starting point for a constructive preventative measure?
 

Dcgc28

DISdad #864.
Joined
Sep 15, 2019
Exactly. This kid had no history of mental health issues & no criminal history. Bought the weapon legally so what could be done other than limit the type of weapon he has access to.
Make it harder to obtain a gun, I’d like to see mandatory self defense classes, as a gun owner I have a CWP and took the time to learn its operation. I’d like to see gun owners being taught that it’s used in a defensive case not an offensive nature.

I’d like to see magazine restrictions to 10 per mag regardless of gun type. I’d like to see no civilian be able to own an automatic weapon regardless of their training. I’d like to push overall safety with weapons.

There are still plenty of options. The question will always be is forcing someone to take classes and get licensed a violation of the 2A right? The. The other elephant in the room is what do you do with criminals who already have weapons outside of these parameters?

It’s a tough out honestly. There’s no set in stone answer.
 

Disneychick13

Mouseketeer
Joined
Sep 9, 2012
Make it harder to obtain a gun, I’d like to see mandatory self defense classes, as a gun owner I have a CWP and took the time to learn its operation. I’d like to see gun owners being taught that it’s used in a defensive case not an offensive nature.

I’d like to see magazine restrictions to 10 per mag regardless of gun type. I’d like to see no civilian be able to own an automatic weapon regardless of their training. I’d like to push overall safety with weapons.

There are still plenty of options. The question will always be is forcing someone to take classes and get licensed a violation of the 2A right? The. The other elephant in the room is what do you do with criminals who already have weapons outside of these parameters?

It’s a tough out honestly. There’s no set in stone answer.
These are great points and suggestions. The problem is always that owning a gun is a constitutional right so its very hard to add caveats to it.
 

LSUmiss

DIS Veteran
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Sep 8, 2014
Honest question, he as an 18 year old is an adult and therefore he has the RIGHT under our constitution to own firearms. What kind of limit are you talking about, no AR? Do you think if he was not allowed to by that but allowed to by another type of rifle he would have decided not to kill all those kids? Do you actually believe the type of gun has the power to turn someone's mind into the mind of a mass murder?
No but I think he wouldn’t be able to kill as many as fast. And I’m so tired of hearing about rights. We can amend the constitution. It’s been done before.
 

_19disnA

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
It’s really hard to work with the other side when they absolutely refuse to do anything. Any attempt to regulate guns is stonewalled.

I agree and call that the "NRA syndrome". Private citizens can't go to a store and buy a boozka or anti-aircraft weapon and no one argues about the 2nd amendment for those. Guns that have a valid use for hunting are different from ones whose primary purpose is to kill a lot of people in a short period of time.
 
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Claudia1

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Aug 18, 1999
Here is a news report that speaks with eyewitnesses of the shooter's accident, the first shots fired at the local people going to his crashed truck, and his entry into the school. One states that he "believes he shot into that window over there" to get into the school. He also talks about the arrival of law enforcement.

No matter how tightly we lock doors or deadbolt them, windows and glass can be shot out for access.

 

Sinder

Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2021
Make it harder to obtain a gun, I’d like to see mandatory self defense classes, as a gun owner I have a CWP and took the time to learn its operation. I’d like to see gun owners being taught that it’s used in a defensive case not an offensive nature.

I’d like to see magazine restrictions to 10 per mag regardless of gun type. I’d like to see no civilian be able to own an automatic weapon regardless of their training. I’d like to push overall safety with weapons.

There are still plenty of options. The question will always be is forcing someone to take classes and get licensed a violation of the 2A right? The. The other elephant in the room is what do you do with criminals who already have weapons outside of these parameters?

It’s a tough out honestly. There’s no set in stone answer.


Can you explain how you think defense courses and learning how to operate firearms would keep people from using them to murder people?
I do think everyone should learn how to safely use a firearm if they are going to own one, but I really have no idea how that would prevent tragedies like this.
NY has a mag restriction, didn't stop the Buffalo shooter from modifying his. Also, it takes a second to drop a mag and reload another so again not sure how restricting to 10 would prevent mass killings.

No but I think he wouldn’t be able to kill as many as fast. And I’m so tired of hearing about rights. We can amend the constitution. It’s been done before.

So then you meant semi-automatic weapons in general then when you said "type" of gun?
 

DisneyJamieCA

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
I mean of course they want to take guns. I’m not saying anyone on this thread has said that but I guarantee that there are definitely people in power who would like that very much. Please tell me what “stricter gun laws” would pass a constitutionality test. Because that makes all the difference. And school security is completely a valid answer. protocols just have to be really strong and be followed 100% of the time.
A mental health evaluation, 48 hour waiting period, counseling. We require those of women seeking a medical procedure.

Why not raise the age limit? We don’t allow drinking until 21. Why not the ability to buy guns?

And no, these kids are going to school, not prison. School security has repeatedly failed anyways - as was evident yesterday.
 

john7994

DIS Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2022
Can you explain how you think defense courses and learning how to operate firearms would keep people from using them to murder people?
I do think everyone should learn how to safely use a firearm if they are going to own one, but I really have no idea how that would prevent tragedies like this.
NY has a mag restriction, didn't stop the Buffalo shooter from modifying his. Also, it takes a second to drop a mag and reload another so again not sure how restricting to 10 would prevent mass killings.



So then you meant semi-automatic weapons in general then when you said "type" of gun?
You claim to want a civil discussion ... poking at others' suggestions is easy ... so what's the starting point for a constructive preventative measure?
 

Sinder

Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2021
You claim to want a civil discussion ... poking at others' suggestions is easy ... so what's the starting point for a constructive preventative measure?

He posted his ideas, I'm asking him why he thinks his ideas would stop mass murderers. I provided examples of how his ideas didn't work in one of the recent shootings. If he answers, maybe he'll make a point I am unaware of.
That's usually how civil conversations work. If you think providing fact is "poking at suggestions" then I really don't know what to tell you.

I already posted what I think would be good preventive measure earlier in the thread.
 

J-Dog

A Nobody
Joined
Sep 4, 2016
Make it harder to obtain a gun, I’d like to see mandatory self defense classes, as a gun owner I have a CWP and took the time to learn its operation. I’d like to see gun owners being taught that it’s used in a defensive case not an offensive nature.

I’d like to see magazine restrictions to 10 per mag regardless of gun type. I’d like to see no civilian be able to own an automatic weapon regardless of their training. I’d like to push overall safety with weapons.

There are still plenty of options. The question will always be is forcing someone to take classes and get licensed a violation of the 2A right? The. The other elephant in the room is what do you do with criminals who already have weapons outside of these parameters?

It’s a tough out honestly. There’s no set in stone answer.
Personally, I am for some kind of gun control that would prevent this type of mass murder. The problem is that none of the proposals have any historical evidence of being effective.

How would self-defense or gun-ownership classes have changed this guy's mind about shooting kids?

10-round mag limits is a joke - they are easily altered and a good operator can change mags very quickly.

The Assault Weapons ban in the '90's has long been established as a failure at preventing crime - so why would it magically work today?

I agree that background checks are essential, they certainly are in my state. But restricting the average citizen's rights, that may or may not help, just for the emotional, knee-jerk response of "doing something" is ridiculous.
 

LuvOrlando

DIS Veteran
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Are people really so stuck in their echo chambers that they don't think all these people & all the children are deserving of the effort towards ORIGINAL thoughts and ideas?

It's just mind boggling that people can't see what they are saying isn't constructive in any way :badpc:
 

WhatDinosaur

Earning My Ears
Joined
Dec 25, 2021
Are people really so stuck in their echo chambers that they don't think all these people & all the children are deserving of the effort towards ORIGINAL thoughts and ideas?

It's just mind boggling that people can't see what they are saying isn't constructive in any way :badpc:
What do you think is an original idea? The US has 4.4% of the world’s population but 42% of the guns. You don’t think there’s something to be done there?
 

john7994

DIS Veteran
Joined
Mar 20, 2022
He posted his ideas, I'm asking him why he thinks his ideas would stop mass murderers. I provided examples of how his ideas didn't work in one of the recent shootings. If he answers, maybe he'll make a point I am unaware of.
That's usually how civil conversations work. If you think providing fact is "poking at suggestions" then I really don't know what to tell you.

I already posted what I think would be good preventive measure earlier in the thread.
My bad, I think I came in after one of your other posts, but I did find your suggestions. As a gun owner in Georgia, I can join you on most if not all of those suggestions ... way too loose here ... especially on private sales ... virtually like handing someone a gun
 

Sinder

Registered
Joined
Aug 24, 2021
My bad, I think I came in after one of your other posts, but I did find your suggestions. As a gun owner in Georgia, I can join you on most if not all of those suggestions ... way too loose here ... especially on private sales ... virtually like handing someone a gun

I'm in NY state and while some see our laws as extremely restrictive I don't find them to be.
I don't necessarily agree that they do anything to prevent mass shootings as evidence by Buffalo, or the mass shooting on the subway in NYC (where the laws are more strict than the rest of the state) last month, I don't find they infringe on my rights as a gun owner, at this point anyway.
I do think there is more we can do to help prevent these mass shootings, and they wouldn't restrict the rights of law abiding citizens, they would just help keep guns out of the hands of people who would abuse their right to own them.
 

J-Dog

A Nobody
Joined
Sep 4, 2016
What do you think is an original idea? The US has 4.4% of the world’s population but 42% of the guns. You don’t think there’s something to be done there?
What, exactly?

You don't honestly think that everyone who owns those guns are just going to obediently turn them in, do you?

Like I said, we need laws that will stop the problem, not more ineffective laws that are made in hurry to make that party's voters feel good.
 

Dcgc28

DISdad #864.
Joined
Sep 15, 2019
Can you explain how you think defense courses and learning how to operate firearms would keep people from using them to murder people?
I do think everyone should learn how to safely use a firearm if they are going to own one, but I really have no idea how that would prevent tragedies like this.
NY has a mag restriction, didn't stop the Buffalo shooter from modifying his. Also, it takes a second to drop a mag and reload another so again not sure how restricting to 10 would prevent mass killings.

I didn’t say it would “stop” or “prevent” tragedies. So I can’t explain what you want me to explain. I don’t have those answers, and I certainly don’t pretend to know.

The self defense idea is basically like getting your license for driving, you’re elongating the process and educating the user, and the 10 round idea is just a personal opinion. Neither of those things would prevent murder or mass shootings. But that’s not my job to figure out.
 
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