Uvalde

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Once more...WE CAN DO BOTH.

They shouldn't be but sadly it seems necessary to keep them safe. An NFL game has more security than kids have at school. Heck, I shouldn't have to take my shoes off to get on an airplane because ONE guy unsuccessfully tried to light his shoe on fire! I shouldn't have to go through a full body scanner to get on airplane because ONE guy unsuccessfully tried to light his underwear on fire on an airplane either! However this is the world we live in and this is what we have to do...

Read that again. ONE guy UNSUCCESSFULLY tried to blow up his shoe and we swiftly demanded and received change. How many people have been murdered in cold blood and we are still arguing about who shouldn't have to do what? It's insane.

Gun control. Mental health. Security changes. All of it is on the table.

#WeCanDoBoth
Don’t be so condescending. My responses are directly to those who want changes in the schools, but refuse to acknowledge changes in society & our laws need to happen. They believe their rights to own guns outweigh children’s lives. I stand by, it is not on the children to have to make the changes.

But also keep in mind that one side of the political aisle doesn’t want universal healthcare, to fund mental health, fund the schools, fund infrastructure. So please tell me how it can be both.

ETA: your “it can be both” is just as unrealistic as my wishing we’d finally see some changes and that these students & teachers didn’t die in vain.
 
The rifles were bought from a Federal Firearms Licensee and there was 100% a background check done.

All online sales that cross state lines must go through a FFL and an FBI NICS check is required to be done before the firearm can be sold. Requiring all mental health diagnoses to be entered into a database that can restrict one's constitutional rights will not do much but prevent people from seeking help. This happened with the VA a few years ago.

Very simple question if something is going to violate the Constitution, would a similar edict on any of the other Constitutional rights be acceptable to you? If we required a civics class with a passing grade and working knowledge of how government works to vote would that be acceptable to you? And yes, requiring someone to be licensed to have arms in the US is a violation of the Constitution. See District of Columbia V Heller and McDonald V City of Chicago.

Some do argue exactly that. There are some that argue anything the government is allowed to have is comething the citizenry should have access to as well. Hunting has absolutely nothing to do with the second amendment. The entire purpose of the second amendment is to prevent governmental tyranny. You want gun owners to buy in to giving up standard capacity magazines and semi automatic rifles, take them away from the government and it's agent's first.

Apply that to other rights and see where it gets you. The easiest one is the first, does that only apply to a box in the town square and the printing presses of the time? And no, the musket was not the most complex firearm of the 1700's, there were semi automatic and fully automatic firearms available. The musket was just the most common.

If he had been "involuntarily committed" that would have made him a prohibited person. If the state had given that information to be included in NICS. This is the route that really needs to be explored, and not giving 4th, 5th and 6th chances.

Agree that there is a profile. A couple of things I think could be done while maintaining Constitutionality and keep firearms out of the hands of kids like this. Add animal abuse to the list of disqualifying crimes. Add juvenile records to NICS with a change that disqualifying crimes includes those crimes that would be disqualifying if committed by an adult. Put teeth into the law that requires the states to put their acts into NICS. Many prohibited persons have been able to get guns after moving states because the states didn't update NICS. Use the civil commitment process. This is the only way to take away someone's rights without a criminal conviction.

Stop comparing getting a gun to getting an abortion, or I've seen some memes comparing it to buying pseudoephedrine. Especially when you have absolutely no idea the process to legally purchase a firearm.

Make schools a harder target. Allow those with carry permits or those that are willing to take up that mantle to protect schools in the same manner we protect everything else. If I go to my state capitol or school board meeting there are folks with guns there to protect the politicians, why not let those that have been through the background checks and training to protect the kids? Not necesarily police since we saw how that worked out in Parkland, but mothers, fathers and staff inside the schools.
To the last sentence, OH HELL NO!
 
And people need to stop comparing knife attacks to the many, many mass shootings using semi-automatic weapons.
That's actually something UK residents bring up, I didn't even know about the prevalence of this until I kept hearing it from european residents on the Boards time and time again and then I would hear about it through global news. And unfortunately what in the past was car attacks.

No one is actually trying to compare the violence factor of knives and cars to guns. That is something that people who don't want to have discussions try to do, I'm not sure if it makes people feel better or not but it's like assuming people are incapable of understanding that..well duh a knife can kill but typically speaking a gun can kill more.

When the question is about the psychology of people, when the question is about acts that occur elsewhere (both of which had been brought up) there's a level of ignoring that happens. No one should ignore that violence happens elsewhere, that is neither helpful nor accurate and no one is arguing against the prevalence of violence in the U.S. because it sure has a ton of it. But people just can't act like other places are an idyllic paradise either. It's not as I'm coming to embrace the phrase "a good faith argument".

I tend to find on the Boards there's only a few non-U.S. posters who are willing to discuss their home country with a straight forward conversation and I find myself learning so much. But there's other non-U.S. posters who spend way more time talking about other things that I'm not sure I learn much from it.
 

Make schools a harder target. Allow those with carry permits or those that are willing to take up that mantle to protect schools in the same manner we protect everything else. If I go to my state capitol or school board meeting there are folks with guns there to protect the politicians, why not let those that have been through the background checks and training to protect the kids? Not necesarily police since we saw how that worked out in Parkland, but mothers, fathers and staff inside the schools.
Absolutely not. Especially the end of your last sentence.
 
Don’t be so condescending. My responses are directly to those who want changes in the schools, but refuse to acknowledge changes in society & our laws need to happen. They believe their rights to own guns outweigh children’s lives. I stand by, it is not on the children to have to make the changes.

But also keep in mind that one side of the political aisle doesn’t want universal healthcare, to fund mental health, fund the schools, fund infrastructure. So please tell me how it can be both.

ETA: your “it can be both” is just as unrealistic as my wishing we’d finally see some changes and that these students & teachers didn’t die in vain.
Your response was TO ME. You quoted ME. I am an advocate for gun control (including an amendment to the constitution), mental health reform and anything else that can be done to protect children, shoppers, church goers etc.
 
None of these are 100% guarantees. The goal is to make schools less of a soft, easy target. Shooters are often suicidal, impulsive and want to exit with a splash, feeling powerful as they control the situation inside the building. Making it hard to get into the building and/or the classroom is a deterrent.
Agree, but how sad that this is necessary. As far as I know, there are not are armed guards nor metal detectors at schools in my community, yet. In Uvalde, it wouldn’t have mattered because the shooter went in a back door, obviously unlocked. Do your students go outside for recess and gym class? They do here. I mean, this very troubled and angry young man was determined to kill children. He could’ve done it without entering the building. He could’ve just waited in his car for the kids to come out for recess or even at dismissal time and shoot them in the school yard. Again, it goes back to accessibility to firearms that can shoot so many within a few minutes.

And I’m still at risk when I go to the grocery store or any other public place. Because no one in the US is really safe. As we’ve seen, shootings can happen in any place anywhere. That’s our reality. I am outraged. The time to tackle this problem was years ago. Enough already, lawmakers need to do it NOW.
 
Your response was TO ME. You quoted ME. I am an advocate for gun control (including an amendment to the constitution), mental health reform and anything else that can be done to protect children, shoppers, church goers etc.
Go back a little further. You quoted me when I was in a conversation with somebody else. Now that’s how boards like this work, so I don’t care, but there was context to that conversation happening.

I’m glad to know we’re on the same page. So let’s stop putting the work on the children and get some actual change happening.
 
I don't disagree at all with anyone who feels they need to relocate even out of the country, I actually applaud that. But the question I have is would you renounce your citizenship? Because the reason you are leaving is something tied to your citizenship, it's the disdain for the country that you are a citizen of, that you presently call home, and the cultures it has that is making you leave and if that decision to leave the country and reside elsewhere (which is a finite and large step) my impression would be you would renounce your loyalty (which is what citizenship ends up being) and your rights afforded under such citizenship.

And please know this is coming from an honest good conversation, it's just something that I see people saying they will leave and if your feelings are so strong the only ultimate step I see is to give us said citizenship.
I honestly would, if I could get full citizenship elsewhere. However, that's not an easy or short process and it's more than possible I would be dead before I could get through all the hoops. But as it's nearly impossible to be "without country," (someone has to issue the passport, driver's license, etc. and there are so many requirements for banking these days) I feel like I have to keep citizenship somewhere. But in a dream world, you bet your bippy that I'd take citizenship somewhere else. I won't get into all the reasons because the points would be extreme, but suffice to say it goes way beyond guns at this point, but that's a definite problem.
 
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