US air rip offs

[bavaria]

Exactly. I was thinking you'd have to be living in a cave to have not heard about baggage fees.

I have been to Charlottesville many times, and it isn't a cave, or a backwater. It is a beautiful part of your country, and some very kind, logical people actually live there. (Ooops, just reread and the OP is from HERSHEY, not Charlottesville, where the news did hit - but I have been to Hershey MANY times - surprised? - most recently a few months ago, and it too has access to the outside world, believe it or not)

A few years ago I wrote how I was sitting on my balcony in Monaco, listening to a report about the failing US carriers, declining fares, and the whinging public. Certainly if the news made it there, it made it to Charlottesville, whether by newspaper, internet, television, radio, or word of mouth. The airlines are not at fault if someone didn't care to keep up on the information or to read it before they booked.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Actually, "when adjusted for inflation" on average all product's prices have maintained statu quo and not increased. Hence the adjusting for inflation.

I was going to say, "bavaria will be around eventually to explain what I really mean", but I see that's already been done

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

I have been to Charlottesville many times, and it isn't a cave, or a backwater. It is a beautiful part of your country, and some very kind, logical people actually live there. (Ooops, just reread and the OP is from HERSHEY, not Charlottesville, where the news did hit - but I have been to Hershey MANY times - surprised? - most recently a few months ago, and it too has access to the outside world, believe it or not)

A few years ago I wrote how I was sitting on my balcony in Monaco, listening to a report about the failing US carriers, declining fares, and the whinging public. Certainly if the news made it there, it made it to Charlottesville, whether by newspaper, internet, television, radio, or word of mouth. The airlines are not at fault if someone didn't care to keep up on the information or to read it before they booked.

You're taking my phrase too literally. I'm not knocking op's hometown at all. My niece lives a stone's throw away in nearby Manheim, PA. Just saying you'd have to be living like a hermit to not ever hear of luggage fees charged by airlines. How on earth could you not? Even if you didn't have internet access. I just can't grasp it.
It's one thing to hear people gripe about it but scary to think people truly didn't know that it exists in this day and age of media/news everywhere, right up to the point of checking in for a flight.

 

[bavaria]

I think that you misread my post. I am on side with you! Charlottesville is a very pleasant town, as is Hershey.

I too do not understand people who claim that they were unaware, when they made the booking themselves. Perhaps they truly do not keep abreast of the news, but if one made the booking oneself one did see the information.

My example was that if it is in the Monégasque media, it is very sad that an American living in America flying an America carrier was not aware, even when they encountered the information on the website.

 

[bavaria]

I was going to say, "bavaria will be around eventually to explain what I really mean", but I see that's already been done

Hey, I was sleeping! It does happen! I may have to dig out my inflation calculator example and show how one of my 'average' intra-US routes has gone down over the last 20 years...

 

[foxress]

Over the past 20 years airline tickets in America have continued to decline, and are now at some of the lowest prices EVER. Almost every US carrier has been bleeding billions of dollars in revenue for years, yet we still read almost weekly these endless whinges about the evil airlines 'ripping off' customers.

It is simple logic - they are failing, and they cannot raise fares without the infrequent travellers whinging and refusing to pay, so they need to find revenue elsewhere.

It isn't like this in the rest of the world - airfares are viable, and thus no fees on mainline carriers. (see crashbb's posts - but then again, most people here wouldn't pay the fares we pay in the rest of the world)

I just purchased last night a ticket in December for intra-US travel, and it is about 30% cheaper than I have EVER paid for that route, and it is crossing into the holiday season, when fares are usually higher.

I'm sorry, but I really don't have any sympathy anymore for rants like this. The expectation for a business to continue to drop prices lower and lower to the point of bankruptcy is just not logical.

Who is dropping prices lower and lower? Airline prices have only gone up.

 

[bavaria]

You're kidding, right, and trying to make an argument? Again, I cannot believe that anyone truly believes this when we continue to see airfares under $200 to fly cross country.

Time to get out the inflation calculator. In 1994 a route that I flew regularly was $198 in 1994 dollars. That is $284.08 in 2008 dollars.

In 2008, in 2008 dollars, that same route cost me $218. That is $151.95 in 1994 dollars.

Thus the fare dropped more than $46, or more than 23%, over a 25 year span (and that is starting with a fare AFTER deregulation in America). That is just one route that I commonly fly, but it has continued to happen on a regular basis on the average routes across America. See my earlier statement about my ticket next month over the holiday season being 30% lower than what I pay in offpeak season.



(seeking kaytieeldr to check my maths for me..... )

 

[klynn]

I just went online to do the online check in stuff and i got hit with a $20 per bag charge each way. With 4 bags thats $160 bucks i hadnt budgted for. Does anyone have any tips or advice to get some or all of it back. I hate the fact we pay $1500 for the tickets and get hit with fee's too. I'm very disappointed. What can i do?

You should call the airline and tell them you made a mistake and you are only taking X-number of bags (whatever you are taking). Perhaps they can issue you a refund. You should be able to get by with one checked bag. We are a family of 4 and we only check one bag and a also take two carry-on bags.

 

[foxress]

Then don't fly. When adjusted for inflation, air tickets are about the same price as they were twenty years ago. Do you know ANY other product whose price hasn't increased?

Let's see, more money, less leg room, no meal, no luggage checked, more fees, less chance of landing on time...now that's value.

 

[bumbershoot]

Airline tickets are NOT more expensive now!

In 8th grade, which means about '82, I flew from CA to DC on the school trip. It was $800.

In my late teens and early 20s, my mom and stepdad flew me from WA to Miami, FL repeatedly, and it was *at least* $400 each time.

Today I did that mock booking for this thread, and it was 169 going to MCO from SEA, and 99 back. Editing in...and I was booking for 4 days from now...borderline last minute travel (I'm seriously tempted...I want to go talk with my cousin about where we want to stay on our WDW trip next year b/c it would be easier than email/IM/facebook). 4 days from now!

Prices, even without adjusting for inflation, are LOWER today than they were a couple decades ago.


Maybe people are seeing higher prices now compared to last year, I can't argue with that (though honestly as long as I wait long enough I've been able to find even LOWER prices, since we keep traveling in the same timeframe...Sept/Oct/earlyNov, then early Dec, so my personal experience argues absolutely with it). But compared to what it SHOULD be??? We're paying pennies.

 

[bavaria]

Let's see, more money, less leg room, no meal, no luggage checked, more fees, less chance of landing on time...now that's value.

Because people refuse to PAY a viable fare! Of course the US airlines are having to cut back. When AA introduced more legroom, people wouldn't pay, so they took it out. UA has E+ but most infrequent travellers won't pay for it.

And I fly in my parallel universe where even on my US flights I pay less, have more legroom, get the food I want, don't pay bag fees, and very rarely over the past 5 years of almost weekly travel have had a late flight.

Life in DISworld must be quite miserable according to what I read here, but life in the parallel universe is actually quite nice, thank you very much. Many of us actually enjoy it.

 

[bavaria]

Today I did that mock booking for this thread, and it was 169 going to MCO from SEA, and 99 back. Editing in...and I was booking for 4 days from now...borderline last minute travel (I'm seriously tempted...I want to go talk with my cousin about where we want to stay on our WDW trip next year b/c it would be easier than email/IM/facebook). 4 days from now!

Now change that booking to YVR-MCO return, just 2.5 hours north of SEA and 3 north of Bumber, and it $877 on Air Canada (with the dollars almost at par, we'll call it $877)

That is a difference of $609, or your fare is 30 percent of the Canadian fare. Perhaps that will help readers to understand why most non-American (and many American) posters have little sympathy for the whinging about the shrinking, unbelievably low and unviable airfares in America?

 

[foxress]

Airline tickets are NOT more expensive now!

In 8th grade, which means about '82, I flew from CA to DC on the school trip. It was $800.

In my late teens and early 20s, my mom and stepdad flew me from WA to Miami, FL repeatedly, and it was *at least* $400 each time.

Today I did that mock booking for this thread, and it was 169 going to MCO from SEA, and 99 back. Editing in...and I was booking for 4 days from now...borderline last minute travel (I'm seriously tempted...I want to go talk with my cousin about where we want to stay on our WDW trip next year b/c it would be easier than email/IM/facebook). 4 days from now!

Prices, even without adjusting for inflation, are LOWER today than they were a couple decades ago.


Maybe people are seeing higher prices now compared to last year, I can't argue with that (though honestly as long as I wait long enough I've been able to find even LOWER prices, since we keep traveling in the same timeframe...Sept/Oct/earlyNov, then early Dec, so my personal experience argues absolutely with it). But compared to what it SHOULD be??? We're paying pennies.

This hasn't been my experience at all. I've been seeing higher prices every year for the past several years. In 1982 I flew roundtrip Ohio to Europe for $198. I can't even get from Reno to San Francisco for that, now. Maybe dollarwise, flying is lower when adjusted for inflation, but it sure isn't the same value for your money. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Tickets are paid for. We're going. Have a good trip.

 

[bavaria]

How many of you buy airline tickets week in and week out every week or several times a week for years at a time? Unless you are a travel agent, or fly as often as some of us, you really don't have much frame of reference at all. There are posters like Bumbershoot and many others who are logical and reasonable about airfare, and will pay attention to the numbers, but the vast majority seem to think that airfare is rising sharply over the past few decades.

It isn't.

My expense reports have continued to decline over the past five years, due in large part to shrinking airfare. (And that does include international travel as well)

 

[foxress]

How many of you buy airline tickets week in and week out every week or several times a week for years at a time? Unless you are a travel agent, or fly as often as some of us, you really don't have much frame of reference at all. There are posters like Bumbershoot and many others who are logical and reasonable about airfare, and will pay attention to the numbers, but the vast majority seem to think that airfare is rising sharply over the past few decades.

It isn't.

My expense reports have continued to decline over the past five years, due in large part to shrinking airfare. (And that does include international travel as well)

We all have experiences from which to draw. Different experiences give us different perspectives. Just because a perspective is different from yours doesn't make it invalid.

 

[bavaria]

No, but I tend to deal with facts and truth and logic, and therein lies the difference.

The fact is that average airfare in America has continued to decline over the past few decades. It is indisputable. The fact is that several American airlines are bleeding billions of dollars. It is indisputable.

 

[disfan07]

No, but I tend to deal with facts and truth and logic, and therein lies the difference.

The fact is that average airfare in America has continued to decline over the past few decades. It is indisputable. The fact is that several American airlines are bleeding billions of dollars. It is indisputable.

I'm agreeing with Bavaria on this.

We flew IAD to LAX for the first time in 2000. We paid $400 RT/person
We flew the same route in 2004. We paid $350 RT/person
We flew the same route for a third time in 2007 and we paid $250 RT/person
I have flown this route 5 times in the past year and have never paid more than $200 RT....and that was over christmas break (flying on dec 21st and january 5th)....i paid as low as $120 RT on Virgin America for that route.

We are flying LAX to IAD Dec 12th and coming back Dec 16th. We are paying $220 RT per person....we coul dhave gotten cheaper flights but he times did not work for us and our days were not flexible.

So overall....we are paying on average $150 to $200 less than we did 9 1/2 years ago for a cross country flight.

It has worked the same for IAD-MCO and IAD-PBI. Both routes cost us less than it did years ago. It's just that at this point, most of us are in a different state of mind when it comes to finances that what would have seemed like a huge bargain years ago, seems expensive to us now.

 

[pilotwife_02]

You're kidding, right, and trying to make an argument? Again, I cannot believe that anyone truly believes this when we continue to see airfares under $200 to fly cross country.

Time to get out the inflation calculator. In 1994 a route that I flew regularly was $198 in 1994 dollars. That is $284.08 in 2008 dollars.

In 2008, in 2008 dollars, that same route cost me $218. That is $151.95 in 1994 dollars.

Thus the fare dropped more than $46, or more than 23%, over a 25 year span (and that is starting with a fare AFTER deregulation in America). That is just one route that I commonly fly, but it has continued to happen on a regular basis on the average routes across America. See my earlier statement about my ticket next month over the holiday season being 30% lower than what I pay in offpeak season.



(seeking kaytieeldr to check my maths for me..... )

Thank you for doing this math! I am seriously going to keep this for when people I know complain about airline prices.

 

[pilotwife_02]

Because people refuse to PAY a viable fare! Of course the US airlines are having to cut back. When AA introduced more legroom, people wouldn't pay, so they took it out. UA has E+ but most infrequent travellers won't pay for it.

And let's not forget pilot paycuts so airlines can stay in business. I'm sure people are going to start chiming in that there are pilots out there make tons 'o money, but let me tell you, my DH has taken many pay cuts over the past 7 years and done without his scheduled CONTRACT raises so he and others can just stay employed. But I'm sure people will just say he and other pilots should suck it up cause at least he has a job, right

For the record, I'm not complaining, I know we're really lucky he has a job. I'm just saying that people need to understand that airlines AREN'T ripping people off they are trying to make money like any good business should. I don't see people on here constantly complaining the price of hotel rooms rise faster then the rate of inflation every year for the past 10 years (http://www.cbs.nl/en-GB/menu/themas/prijzen/publicaties/artikelen/archief/2008/2008-2616-wm1.htm) or that restaurants have increased their prices as well.

 

[seashoreCM]

It's not just vacationers refusing to pay the higher fares, but companies sending their employees on business refuse to pay the higher fares too.