Tracking Cruising Restart: News and Updates

[tvguy]

I think a new law or possibly a law suit by states most affected by the shutdown is the best way to get peoples attention. I think to a point it may have. Only time will tell.

Yeah, time will tell. But Court move VERY slowly. So slowly that this never ending virus may have ended before a court acts.

 

[71 Truck]

Yeah, time will tell. But Court move VERY slowly. So slowly that this never ending virus may have ended before a court acts.

Yes you are correct courts move VERY VERY slowly.
I think this is what will be needed for the next virus and there will be a next virus. If they can get some sort of ruling it will be on the books for next time.

 

[mevelandry]

Slightly OT: Will Travel Insurance companies cover you if:
1) You cruise against CDC guidelines?
2) You cruise in areas like the Bahamas where the State Department has issued a travel advisory due to covid concerns.

I've been wondering this as well.

 

[hubbard53]

think about the number of jobs lost or impacted by the cruise shut down - all the way down to farmers & travel agents. Once you grasp the impact you'll understand the political nature of CDC's continued stonewalling. . . a dependent class of workers is good for some politicians.

 

[CarolynU]

Right now DCL are trying to re-start some uk only cruises going nowhere.
The demand seems to be huge at almost any cost. Booking begins next Wednesday and no-one has a clue on pricing but a fair few will book at any cost just to experience some normality. It will not be fully vaccinated as a requirement because it caters to children too who have not had the vaccine.
iDCL is working with our government to ensure safety protocols in place. There will be a testing requirement but we don’t know what that will be, plus restrictions and reductions but again no idea what!
Lots of other cruise lines have re-started to the vaccinated only in the uk and Europe.
Again they mostly seem to offer an onboard cruise experience with few or no port stops but the demand is there for sure! Perhaps offering something like this as testers might be a first tentative step.I’m guessing though that the CDC might still veto even that! In which case where do the cruise lines go from there?
An update from DCL. There will be a fully vaccinated requirement for adults and PCR testing for children.

 

[jerry557]

I think the CDC wants herd immunity before they even think about resuming cruises. In other words, not just a 100% vaccinated on the cruise itself, they want 80% vaccinated populations. They don’t seem convinced that a vaccinated person can’t spread the virus. So they view vaccinated people as much as a spreader threat as unvaccinated people. That’s why they aren’t recommending any changes to COVID restrictions regardless of vaccination status.

 

[Intr3pid]

The technical guidance reads like it was written by government scientists who have never worked in a business. They seem to ask for more than is required and more than may be possible to achieve, at least at a profit.

As it should be. If we are sending 2,000 people into a confined space for up to 7 days without any essential need in a pandemic - and in dozens of instances every week - then we do need to hear from the scientist first.

It is not the CDC's responsibility to frame its rules to provide for profitability against public health risks. Economics will take care of it. If profits were a concern, we wouldn't see the cruises running in Italy.

The investment in the infrastructure is long term. The CDC's self-education of the industry is a one-time effort. Establishing shoreside quarantine and medical care facilities is a non-recurring investment. In a race to secure summer 2021 profits, say, we drop these investments and the CSO and sail with vaccinated passengers. What's going to happen in the fall or next winter when boosters are needed? What's going to happen when the next virus that doesn't have a vaccine yet is upon us? It will be another painful shutdown.

I agree that the CDC needs to give the issue a higher priority now that the vaccination process is in a steady state. But, if the delay is because they don't understand the business well, it is the industry's responsibility to work with them and educate them. Filing lawsuits is simply going to add more delay to the process.

 

[b2k1121]

think about the number of jobs lost or impacted by the cruise shut down - all the way down to farmers & travel agents. Once you grasp the impact you'll understand the political nature of CDC's continued stonewalling. . . a dependent class of workers is good for some politicians.

 

[tvguy]

think about the number of jobs lost or impacted by the cruise shut down - all the way down to farmers & travel agents. Once you grasp the impact you'll understand the political nature of CDC's continued stonewalling. . . a dependent class of workers is good for some politicians.

I would point out that thousands have been paid out in stimulus money to individuals and milions in special programs to companies due to the pandemic thanks to Congress.
But I admit, that is little help to most cruise ship workers since most are not U.S. residents or citizens. But again, the CDC, the the world picture, has been FAR less restrictive than other nations.

 

[71 Truck]

I think the CDC wants herd immunity before they even think about resuming cruises. In other words, not just a 100% vaccinated on the cruise itself, they want 80% vaccinated populations. They don’t seem convinced that a vaccinated person can’t spread the virus. So they view vaccinated people as much as a spreader threat as unvaccinated people. That’s why they aren’t recommending any changes to COVID restrictions regardless of vaccination status.

If this is the case you will never see cruises in the US again.

Some information I have heard is the vaccine is not permanent and you may need yearly booster shots. Not everyone will follow up for a yearly shot.

Local supermarkets have to offer people a gift card to motivate them to get the yearly Flu shot. I would say less then 80% of the US population gets their yearly Flu shots.

I have also heard it mentioned on one of the YouTube cruise personality's sites say there was a study's that says at least 20% if not more of the US population are not going to get the shot.

 

[71 Truck]

I would point out that thousands have been paid out in stimulus money to individuals and milions in special programs to companies due to the pandemic thanks to Congress.
But I admit, that is little help to most cruise ship workers since most are not U.S. residents or citizens. But again, the CDC, the the world picture, has been FAR less restrictive than other nations.

Yes and unfortunately I am sure most of those benefits have either run out or will run out soon here in the US. We just can't keep giving money out that we just do not have. We have to keep borrowing it from somewhere. At some point our lenders are going to turn off the flow of money.

Imagine owning a business in Alaska that depends on cruises. If they do not find a way to sail soon this will be the second year with no income.
Even with government bailouts most have said they will not survive.

My wife and I want to go to Alaska on a cruise next year. There may be no where to stop because there will be no business left.

I feel very bad for all the people in this country and around the world that depend on the cruise industry for their lively hood.

 

[brentm77]

As it should be. If we are sending 2,000 people into a confined space for up to 7 days without any essential need in a pandemic - and in dozens of instances every week - then we do need to hear from the scientist first.

It is not the CDC's responsibility to frame its rules to provide for profitability against public health risks. Economics will take care of it. If profits were a concern, we wouldn't see the cruises running in Italy.

The investment in the infrastructure is long term. The CDC's self-education of the industry is a one-time effort. Establishing shoreside quarantine and medical care facilities is a non-recurring investment. In a race to secure summer 2021 profits, say, we drop these investments and the CSO and sail with vaccinated passengers. What's going to happen in the fall or next winter when boosters are needed? What's going to happen when the next virus that doesn't have a vaccine yet is upon us? It will be another painful shutdown.

I agree that the CDC needs to give the issue a higher priority now that the vaccination process is in a steady state. But, if the delay is because they don't understand the business well, it is the industry's responsibility to work with them and educate them. Filing lawsuits is simply going to add more delay to the process.

I guess my viewpoint is just different than yours. I have represented clients who were on the unreasonable end of government action, and it is beyond frustrating. Federal agencies have extreme power and nobody to really answer to (not even the courts in most cases). They move at an infuriatingly slow pace while your client's business suffers, and they don't even care. I have seen it many times in my career.

Don't get me wrong, I am not anti-government or science. I am liberal and think government plays an important role in a modern society, and should play a critical role in addressing a pandemic. But, I disagree that scientists with no real-world experience should be the sole source of any regulation shutting down an entire industry. All policy should seek to find a risk/reward balance that is in the best overall interest of people, and the best policy will have input from experts in many fields. An agency's inability to understand how policy will impact business and individuals is one of the reasons federal law requires agencies to get input before making major rules, which the CDC didn't actually do here. To the extent the industry didn't give input, they didn't have the normal and legally required platform to do so, and from interviews I read, the lines claim the CDC wasn't open to their input. Admittedly, that seems to be changing recently.

As for profit, if the regulations are so harsh as to prevent sailing at a profit - of even breaking even - then they are no different than a blanket ban. If that is what we want as a society, then I would rather see a blanket ban instead of a hidden ban via unreasonable regulations.

Do you have a link to Italy's requirements? Even if similar, I doubt they are an onerous. I don't think cruise lines are simply refusing to comply with the technical guidance in the U.S. out of spite. I am sure they would, or will, move forward if there is a financial path that makes sense.

In any case, I think we agree on more than we disagree on. I appreciate your pushback and it pushing me to think about my position critically. Variants are a concern and I am not asking for all precautions to be thrown out. I do think they could be more reasonable and the CDC should release the full guidance ASAP instead of doing it piecemeal and six months at a time.

 

[BadPinkTink]

Do you have a link to Italy's requirements?

Italy is part of The EU and does not have its own individual cruise requirements. Cruise restarting in Italy is under the European CDC. This is ECDC guidance for cruise ship operations

The main difference between the American CDC and ECDC cruise restart regulations is that the ECDC does not require the test cruises and all the certification at each stage that the American CDC require.

 

[brentm77]

Italy is part of The EU and does not have its own individual cruise requirements. Cruise restarting in Italy is under the European CDC. This is ECDC guidance for cruise ship operations

The main difference between the American CDC and ECDC cruise restart regulations is that the ECDC does not require the test cruises and all the certification at each stage that the American CDC require.

Fantastic. Thanks for the information. I look forward to reading it.

 

[hubbard53]

I would point out that thousands have been paid out in stimulus money to individuals and milions in special programs to companies due to the pandemic thanks to Congress.
But I admit, that is little help to most cruise ship workers since most are not U.S. residents or citizens. But again, the CDC, the the world picture, has been FAR less restrictive than other nations.

yeah, you're right... that $5000 probably carried them through the past year just fine. . .

 

[brewcrew]

If you follow the national news organizations, both the CDC and cruise lines state they hope that cruising will start up in July. Each party wants to get there a different way though. The CDC wants everyone to follow the Conditional Sail Order. The cruise lines don't. Most cruise lines believe vaccinations are the key to cruising again without all the other hoops required by the CDC. As proof, can anyone name a cruise line who has stated that will be following the CDC CSO from start to finish? I can't. I have heard a lot about cruise lines moving their ships to non-US ports (Disney is doing England). Even Carnival is considering it.

 

[tvguy]

Yes and unfortunately I am sure most of those benefits have either run out or will run out soon here in the US. We just can't keep giving money out that we just do not have. We have to keep borrowing it from somewhere. At some point our lenders are going to turn off the flow of money.

Imagine owning a business in Alaska that depends on cruises. If they do not find a way to sail soon this will be the second year with no income.
Even with government bailouts most have said they will not survive.

My wife and I want to go to Alaska on a cruise next year. There may be no where to stop because there will be no business left.

I feel very bad for all the people in this country and around the world that depend on the cruise industry for their lively hood.

Fortunately, not all the tourism business is from cruise ships

 

[tvguy]

yeah, you're right... that $5000 probably carried them through the past year just fine. . .

And unemployment. At least here people are refusing to return to work until they exhaust their unemployment benefits which for many exceed what they would earn.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

And unemployment. At least here people are refusing to return to work until they exhaust their unemployment benefits which for many exceed what they would earn.

Which suggests the labor market is broken not that UI is a bad thing. Especially in industries like food service, which are high exposure risks, have tons of sexual harassment, and are often just awful jobs.

 

[tvguy]

Which suggests the labor market is broken not that UI is a bad thing. Especially in industries like food service, which are high exposure risks, have tons of sexual harassment, and are often just awful jobs.

I never worked in food service so don't know.