Top of the World Lounge at Bay Lake Tower at Contemporary Resort - *2 New Parties Added! “Enchantment at the Top” & New “Bound to Be Bad” Dates Added

Ok that makes some sense to me. I considered that and figured I'd rent or transfer points with other members if I wanted to book something my points didn't have access to. Does the prospect of transferring or renting points seem like too much of a hassle? I've not done it yet so perhaps it isn't as simple as I'm thinking.
And yes to be clear I'm certainly not trying to say anything about the members themselves being 'special' or 'snobbish' more about Disney's marketing practices.
I think sometimes with renting it's easier said than done. You lose a ton of flexibility if you don't own the points (even if you transfer points in everything still has to be done through MS). I want the ability to stalk the website to potentially change room types, add/subtract days from a trip without having to get permission from the owner I'm renting from. Plus, my SSR resale points won't get me as much as other resale points, so I'll always be paying more to rent the places I'd want to stay at (assuming restrictions go beyond RIV). All this being said, we never actually done it though since we added RIV direct.
 
I've never rented points from other members, but that's my hang-up. The thought of handing over money to a complete stranger on nothing more than a promise and handshake (I know that this is an over-simplification) makes me shiver with anxiety. I'd never do that. But tons of people do it successfully all of the time, so I am not knocking the rental market. In fact, we just rented out (for the first time ever) some new points that we bought that had been banked and were about to expire.

Renting is a very successful strategy for many folks, which is great.
I don't think it really is an oversimplification, that's pretty much how it goes. I just rented for the first time from someone on these boards for a trip in December. When it came time to fork over the $ on pay pal I got very anxious. I researched him on the orange county website and saw multiple contracts in his name and then after speaking to him on the phone I was finally put at ease. I paid him and the res shows up in my account. But apparently he still controls it and there's nothing stopping him from cancelling it theoretically. There's definitely an element of trust and faith.
There's also 3rd party services with websites that handle this stuff for a fee, but the deals are pretty good from the boards. I got a 1 bedroom savannah at Kidani for 5 nights for $2,970. Disney was charging over $6k for the same res and the rental services were about $3,500 I think. But sorry, yet again I digress.
 
If people are this upset about TOTWL, I think they are going to be really upset in the future. It is obvious that Disney is doubling down on differentiating direct vs. resale. I am expecting the following:
  1. All new builds will have resale restrictions and that includes Poly2 and the DL tower. The only exception will be a VGF style quick conversion.
  2. This rumored new benefit tier will happen and will not be available to resale (or the pricing will be set so high for resale that you would be better off buying a qualifying direct contract).
  3. More "blue card" lounges and other spaces.
  4. Expect AP and perhaps other ticketing benefits to return once demand for the theme parks softens, although those may be rolled into the new benefit tier.
Can't happen soon enough ... would also like to see better discounts on dining - maybe the benefits tier will include a tables in wonderland option ...
 
And I get why people are upset, especially those who really had no idea how it was structured.

I have a feeling we will start seeing more member only spots pop up around the resorts.
I would love this. How many times have people posted about saving so much $$$ buying resale ? That is great for them but don’t complain about the restrictions that also come with resale.

i recall that some resale owners (white card not grandfathered) were on here boasting about being able to buy APs when they went back for sale- knowing they were cheating the system. I don’t care about that because we already have APs but other direct owners who can’t buy APs may.

I am a relatively new member (2019) and AKV points were roughly $105 pp resale when I purchased. I made the decision to buy direct FIRST and then look at a resale contract later on.

these boards actually helped us decide on buying in direct at the minimum before they raised it.

Bring on the direct membership extras, discounts, etc.
 

If people are this upset about TOTWL, I think they are going to be really upset in the future. It is obvious that Disney is doubling down on differentiating direct vs. resale. I am expecting the following:
  1. All new builds will have resale restrictions and that includes Poly2 and the DL tower. The only exception will be a VGF style quick conversion.
  2. This rumored new benefit tier will happen and will not be available to resale (or the pricing will be set so high for resale that you would be better off buying a qualifying direct contract).
  3. More "blue card" lounges and other spaces.
  4. Expect AP and perhaps other ticketing benefits to return once demand for the theme parks softens, although those may be rolled into the new benefit tier.
Speaking for myself, the only reason I'm upset is at the removal of a perk, which feels like an extra kick in the pants being a BLT owner. I don't think anything new being offered to the higher tier would upset me at all, like I said you all deserve it and much more. As someone else pointed out there's not much left to take away from us resale riff raff! Maybe if they can add more value to direct blue card status (or if they make direct pricing at sold out resorts more reasonable e.g. VGF) more of us will pursue it. Right now for new owners like me the value is not even remotely reasonable (again with the exception of VGF) hence my frustration at wanting to participate and upgrade but having no reasonable path.
 
Or 20% on food and alcohol and not even need the TiW ?
I think just as a giveaway would be nice too - don't get me wrong! I think its likely they would tie it into another program - to maximize ways to monetize in smart ways for wider audience reach.
 
It's not about me or my situation, it's about the value (or lack thereof) in buying direct. And the lack of reasonable entry to blue card status (unless you want to buy VGF, then maybe) A topic that seems to upset many and trigger defensive justifications. My situation was simply an illustrative example. The topic itself being obviously triggered by this move by DVD to change the status of a venue and remove a perk from one class.

For those that don't understand why some of us are upset about it or think it's "cheesy" it's that they've not added anything. Blue card members are getting nothing new, they're retaining a benefit they already had, while others are losing a benefit they previously enjoyed. So to make one class of people feel special they do it at the expense of the other class of people. That's all. Are they allowed to do it? Sure. Do some of us think it's a crappy way to add value and entice more direct members, yes. If you paid many thousands of dollars for a blue card I hope you get extra benefits to justify the cost, you deserve it. I just wish they wouldn't accomplish that by taking benefits away from other members. As far as I can see, aside from perks you can get you get yourself by opening a credit card or renting points, you get a lounge in Epcot, evening access to a bar with a view in BLT and moonlight magic. Maybe discounted passes return at some point? Is there more that I don't understand? But I understand you don't want to talk about this you want to talk about a bar with cartoon villains so I'll move along now and look for a thread that drills down more into these topics as I find it interesting and want to learn more.

Again, for you, you see very little value in direct and what it can offer people but moving TOTWL to being only for those who have invested in direct supports the model DVD wants.

I added my adult kids to be direct owners because we all now get access to the perks when they exist, They get the discounted APs or whatever ticket deal could come around, they get the shopping discounts, or to attend those extras without me.

Did I buy expecting them? No. But did I buy direct because they included them? Sure did.

The only option DVD has to guide people to buy direct over resale is to make their product appear a better value. So taking this away from resale is a great way to do that. Now, those with membership extras know it’s going to be available to fewer owners, accessible by car…which it wasn’t…and include special paid events that might be fun.

Of courses for use, the restrictions are more important and owning unrestricted points are worth it. I do also understand that for many resale buyers they simply can’t justify direct because they want a sold out resort.

But DVD doesn’t want to sell you those, and so making this an exclusive benefit they may just get someone to buy active selling resort and not worry about 7 month booking.

Does it bother me that they made changes to distinguish resale vs direct? Honestly no.

Would I care if they got rid of the differences? Nope. But, what they have done has indeed gotten me, as a buyer, to pay more to buy from them because they have the product, with the potential extras, I want access to and in the end, it’s exactly why they do it.

I am happy for anyone who buys resale because they really don’t care about restrictions and perks, I tried it when I bought BLT resale in 2020 and sold in 2021 because having points restricted from RIV just didn’t work.

I also think it’s okay that those of us with direct benefits, and who buy direct, to be happy with our decision as well and to not be upset that DVD is giving us exclusive access to TOTWL.
 
Last edited:
I think sometimes with renting it's easier said than done. You lose a ton of flexibility if you don't own the points (even if you transfer points in everything still has to be done through MS). I want the ability to stalk the website to potentially change room types, add/subtract days from a trip without having to get permission from the owner I'm renting from. Plus, my SSR resale points won't get me as much as other resale points, so I'll always be paying more to rent the places I'd want to stay at (assuming restrictions go beyond RIV). All this being said, we never actually done it though since we added RIV direct.
For sure there's the haggle and hassle of renting and you may spend a couple extra dollars per point per trip depending what you're renting out. Not for everyone, I get it. It's worth mentioning though that you can book 11 months out anywhere by renting.
 
Speaking for myself, the only reason I'm upset is at the removal of a perk, which feels like an extra kick in the pants being a BLT owner. I don't think anything new being offered to the higher tier would upset me at all, like I said you all deserve it and much more. As someone else pointed out there's not much left to take away from us resale riff raff! Maybe if they can add more value to direct blue card status (or if they make direct pricing at sold out resorts more reasonable e.g. VGF) more of us will pursue it. Right now for new owners like me the value is not even remotely reasonable (again with the exception of VGF) hence my frustration at wanting to participate and upgrade but having no reasonable path.
Of course the value is not reasonable. That is why they will make direct more compelling. It's also a long term play. In early 2042, resale buyers will not have an Epcot resort to stay at (unless they own Riv resale). These resale restrictions aren't a big deal, yet. But they will be.
 
Ok that makes some sense to me. I considered that and figured I'd rent or transfer points with other members if I wanted to book something my points didn't have access to. Does the prospect of transferring or renting points seem like too much of a hassle? I've not done it yet so perhaps it isn't as simple as I'm thinking.
And yes to be clear I'm certainly not trying to say anything about the members themselves being 'special' or 'snobbish' more about Disney's marketing practices.

It could be for transfers. Each is limited to one in or out per year. So you have to find someone wanting to transfer RIV or any newer resorts

Renting still puts your reservation at risk as you don’t control it. We never rented because of this

There we’re also a few reports that people restricted from booking RIV on their memberships, still could not book it with transferred points that had those rights…never heard what happened, so it may or may not be the case.

Right now, it is RIV, but if it becomes RIV, VDH, and Poly tower? It could be harder. If in 2042, it also include BWV, BCV, and BRV? Then it may be even harder.
 
Resale Buyer: "I don't care one tiny bit about perks or benefits, buying direct is a waste of money and I'm saving $50,000. You direct buyers are throwing money away because Disney keeps taking perks away anyway."
DVC: "Hey, were making that TOTWL perk a direct-buyer only benefit."
Resale Buyer: "Hey, hold on one second..."
 
Again, for you, you see very little value in direct and what it can offer people but moving TOTWL to being only for those who have invested in direct supports the model DVD wants.

I added my adult kids to be direct owners because we all now get access to the perks when they exist, They get the discounted APs or whatever ticket deal could come around, they get the shopping discounts, or to attend those extras without me.

Did I buy expecting them? No. But did I buy direct because they included them? Sure did.

The only option DVD has to guide people to buy direct over resale is to make their product appear a better value. So taking this away from resale is a great way to do that. Now, those with membership extras now it’s going to be available to fewer owners, accessible by car…which it wasn’t…and include special paid events that might be fun.

Of courses for use, the restrictions are more important and owning unrestricted points are worth it. I do also understand that for many resale buyers they simply can’t justify direct because they want a sold out resort.

But DVD doesn’t want to sell you those, and so making this an exclusive benefit they may just get someone to buy active selling resort and not worry about 7 month booking.

Does it bother me that they made changes to distinguish resale vs direct? Honestly no.

Would I care if they got rid of the differences? Nope. But, what they have done has indeed gotten me, as a buyer, to pay more to buy from them because they have the product, with the potential extras, I want access to and in the end, it’s exactly why they do it.

I am happy for anyone who buys resale because they really don’t care about restrictions and perks, I tried it when I bought BLT resale in 2020 and sold in 2021 because having points restricted from RIV just didn’t work.

I also think it’s okay that those of us with direct benefits, and who buy direct, to be happy with our decision as well and to not be upset that DVD is giving us exclusive access to TOTWL.
I don't disagree with a single thing you've said here.
 
Resale Buyer: "I don't care one tiny bit about perks or benefits, buying direct is a waste of money and I'm saving $50,000. You direct buyers are throwing money away because Disney keeps taking perks away anyway."
DVC: "Hey, were making that TOTWL perk a direct-buyer only benefit."
Resale Buyer: "Hey, hold on one second..."
Don't poke the bear!
 
I added my adult kids to be direct owners because we all now get access to the perks when they exist, They get the discounted APs or whatever ticket deal could come around, they get the shopping discounts, or to attend those extras without me.
Absolutely had not considered this point as carefully as you did - thank you for that value-add comment! While the wife and I are both owners (The wife is the "additional purchaser" - which always makes smile for the wrong reasons of course), I had not thought of making this more concrete beyond the two of us and part of any traditional estate planning.
 



















DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest

Back
Top