Top of the World Lounge at Bay Lake Tower at Contemporary Resort - *2 New Parties Added! “Enchantment at the Top” & New “Bound to Be Bad” Dates Added

[hilltopper152]

Not understanding what Disney is "getting away with" here ... but based on your view of BLT (I couldn't agree more btw), sounds like you should be looking elsewhere.

I could be looking elsewhere just to have the pool considered a premium perk and removed. Maybe towels at the pool are a premium perk for direct owners ha. What I am saying by getting away with is primarily the politics of public opinion... My hospital provided free drinks to employees on night shift for years until our vendor became upset and we removed the 24/7 drink machine. It became an expected perk and a few nurses referenced it when quiting... Really that couldn't be the only reason but it may have help make their exit faster. DVC has not managed their PR well at all for 3 years and this is just the next thing they hope to "get away with" or maybe they just don't care about traditional optics.

 

[john7994]

I could be looking elsewhere just to have the pool considered a premium perk and removed. Maybe towels at the pool are a premium perk for direct owners ha. What I am saying by getting away with is primarily the politics of public opinion... My hospital provided free drinks to employees on night shift for years until our vendor became upset and we removed the 24/7 drink machine. It became an expected perk and a few nurses referenced it when quiting... Really that couldn't be the only reason but it may have help make their exit faster. DVC has not managed their PR well at all for 3 years and this is just the next thing they hope to "get away with" or maybe they just don't care about traditional optics.

I don't get all fussed about Disney's PR issues - I have enough to worry about in my own life.

My company took away free coffee, people complained and then they brought it back. It wasn't great coffee, but I get the attachment to things provided and then taken away. If it bothered me enough, I would have found other employment. It didn't bother me enough in comparison to other benefits, compensation and perks.

Perhaps I am more cynical and transactional by nature, but I do read the fine print and do the research because its on me to protect my interests. As a resale and direct contract owner, I work with the differences, nuances and understand the limitations of both types of contracts. Do I regularly question the value of my purchase with Disney - absolutely.

 

[hilltopper152]

I don't get all fussed about Disney's PR issues - I have enough to worry about in my own life.

My company took away free coffee, people complained and then they brought it back. It wasn't great coffee, but I get the attachment to things provided and then taken away. If it bothered me enough, I would have found other employment. It didn't bother me enough in comparison to other benefits, compensation and perks.

Perhaps I am more cynical and transactional by nature, but I do read the fine print and do the research because its on me to protect my interests. As a resale and direct contract owner, I work with the differences, nuances and understand the limitations of both types of contracts. Do I regularly question the value of my purchase with Disney - absolutely.

I am closer to you but just feeling annoyed I cannot find as much solace in trusting my investment to be protected by leadership. I left a job because they decided to focus on things that had no value to my life and enough of it encouraged me to move on. I like my decision to buy DVC but would prefer them reinforcing it rather than adding doubt ha. Today I have ranted too much and it's time for me to move on and let someone else get bent out of shape!

 

[Sandisw]

My thought after sitting here and settling down is now at... Disney will get away with this switch but why would they do BLT owners like this regardless of their card status??? The fact they wouldn't even let BLT owners still go or maybe even BLT guest go? Due to it's history, lack of exciting options at the resort (public grounds) and the aspect it adds uniqueness to the resort it seems they would have mercy on us simpletons that bought resale there.

I really do get the frustration because it was something open to all DVC and now they changed its purpose.

But, in reality, they are not doing anything to BLT owners. It is a Disney, not DVC, space. It would be no different if they had decided to take over a space at MK, or any other hotel.

In terms of what else could come and go? You have to look at your contract. But, access to BLT pool isn’t a perk. It’s part of it and as an owner you get that. Can they take away towels? Since owners pay for those there is no reason.

I mean, a BLT cash guest could have and can have the same argument. They are paying a lot to stay there and can’t access the spot. It’s really no different..just feels like it should be.

 

[john7994]

I am closer to you but just feeling annoyed I cannot find as much solace in trusting my investment to be protected by leadership. I left a job because they decided to focus on things that had no value to my life and enough of it encouraged me to move on. I like my decision to buy DVC but would prefer them reinforcing it rather than adding doubt ha. Today I have ranted too much and it's time for me to move on and let someone else get bent out of shape!

I think we are all a little annoyed right now and hoping for a better response from Disney toward it's owners in general (Blue or White Card). In terms of the investment, I am a bit mixed in regard to my expectations. Eventually, the contracts "expire", so if I carry them to term (if I live that long ), being able to resell them becomes less of a concern as years pass. If we are talking about the value proposition, I know what the baseline agreement entitles me too, and I am "ok" with it.

To your general point, which I agree with, Disney has never been great on reinforcing loyalty. This is where a stronger value proposition could potentially benefit them for the long-term (i.e. adding-on, encouraging others to buy-in etc.) In all honesty, the lounges themselves to the point of the thread topic, don't really get me all that jazzed.

Disney is smart and a business. Once you buy-in, you lose a little leverage because you are on the hook for at least the dues (and/or the note) unless you find someone else to take over the contract. Even in that regard, Disney would do better to "Be Better" - and command premium reputation and pricing - but alas - they probably know their numbers a little better than me

 

[BL2020]

Is there anything else that DVC can take away from resale owners besides pool hopping (already on hold and super inconvenient anyway due to restrictions)? I believe the ability to book original properties is in the contract, so I think that's off limits. If they can't take more away, they are just trying to entice direct buyers with more perks and possibly new paid perks. I doubt if they are going to provide many more free perks based on their current business practices. It's easier to accept not having access to new perks than losing existing perks, so hopefully they are nearing the end of the line for that. At least people will know what they are getting (or not getting) however minor when deciding direct vs resale.

 

[Brett Wyman]

Is there anything else that DVC can take away from resale owners besides pool hopping (already on hold and super inconvenient anyway due to restrictions)? I believe the ability to book original properties is in the contract, so I think that's off limits. If they can't take more away, they are just trying to entice direct buyers with more perks and possibly new paid perks. I doubt if they are going to provide many more free perks based on their current business practices. It's easier to accept not having access to new perks than losing existing perks, so hopefully they are nearing the end of the line for that. At least people will know what they are getting (or not getting) however minor when deciding direct vs resale.

Nearing the end of the line because pool hopping is literally the last thing left

 

[FionaP]

Sounds like you carefully researched all options and made the right decision for you. And that's great! DVC deliberately prices "sold out" resorts high, while the focus is almost always on the newest properties like VGF and Riviera.

If I were trying to sell you as a DVC Guide, my pitch would probably go something like this:

"You can absolutely buy those BoardWalk resale points and enjoy much of what the program has to offer. You'll pay $29,000 for about 20 years ownership at BoardWalk. You won't be able to attend any of the special events, visit the lounges or access discounts on tickets, shopping and dining. You will also be blocked from using your points at Riviera and future resorts."

"The alternative would be to purchase Grand Floridian or Riviera points from me. Your cost will be about $37,000 - 39,000 depending upon resort. But the points will be yours for twice as many years as the BoardWalk. You can sell them as you get older, leave them to your children or simply continue to enjoy the points for another 20-28 YEARS after the BoardWalk points have expired. You will have full access to all of the member perks including Moonlight Magic, the villains lounge, Epcot lounge and other discounts. You will be able to use your points at Riviera and every future resort. We will throw in last year's points as a bonus. And I can easily help you finance, taking up to 10 years to pay it off. Are you ready to sign?"

The heart wants what the heart wants. But I don't think it's really fair to say the perks access would have cost an extra $17,000 without acknowledging that you paid a hefty premium for BWV either way. 20 years of BWV points with no perks and limited resort access for $29k vs 48 years of Riviera with all perks and all resorts for $37k.

Every little point of differentiation can be used to help nudge buyers toward the direct purchase.

Have you passed ROFR yet?

Yes! The contract closed and I have the points

 

[hilltopper152]

I think we are all a little annoyed right now and hoping for a better response from Disney toward it's owners in general (Blue or White Card). In terms of the investment, I am a bit mixed in regard to my expectations. Eventually, the contracts "expire", so if I carry them to term (if I live that long ), being able to resell them becomes less of a concern as years pass. If we are talking about the value proposition, I know what the baseline agreement entitles me too, and I am "ok" with it.

To your general point, which I agree with, Disney has never been great on reinforcing loyalty. This is where a stronger value proposition could potentially benefit them for the long-term (i.e. adding-on, encouraging others to buy-in etc.) In all honesty, the lounges themselves to the point of the thread topic, don't really get me all that jazzed.

Disney is smart and a business. Once you buy-in, you lose a little leverage because you are on the hook for at least the dues (and/or the note) unless you find someone else to take over the contract. Even in that regard, Disney would do better to "Be Better" - and command premium reputation and pricing - but alas - they probably know their numbers a little better than me

Well this is all true of course. In general I believe many validate to purchase cost knowing there is a resell option that holds value. I get DVC cares about direct but the price is inflated and holds it's ability to sell there partially due to value on the resale market. They cannot absolutely destroy that market without hurting themselves somewhat. Not everyone thinks through their financial decisions and not everyone plans that far ahead... I also know buying as a young adult I plan to maybe resell but if I was older there would be less concern. Diminishing the resale market doesn't matter to some but it definitely hurts it and I wonder how much thought they give to it.

 

[Jenglish13]

It’s really not worth commenting further on the specifics of your situation. Clearly you made a decision you’re comfortable with.

Thousands of people choose to buy direct. Thousands of people choose to buy resale. Thousands of people buy direct and then later add a resale contract. Thousands of people buy resale and then later add a direct contract. They all have their own motivations and priorities.

The certainty is that DVC wishes to continue selling direct points for as high as price as the market will tolerate. And they’ll use all of the tools at their disposal to do that. If the member perks and other benefits hold any value, you can always add-on direct later. If not, enjoy your savings and be well.

It's not about me or my situation, it's about the value (or lack thereof) in buying direct. And the lack of reasonable entry to blue card status (unless you want to buy VGF, then maybe) A topic that seems to upset many and trigger defensive justifications. My situation was simply an illustrative example. The topic itself being obviously triggered by this move by DVD to change the status of a venue and remove a perk from one class.

For those that don't understand why some of us are upset about it or think it's "cheesy" it's that they've not added anything. Blue card members are getting nothing new, they're retaining a benefit they already had, while others are losing a benefit they previously enjoyed. So to make one class of people feel special they do it at the expense of the other class of people. That's all. Are they allowed to do it? Sure. Do some of us think it's a crappy way to add value and entice more direct members, yes. If you paid many thousands of dollars for a blue card I hope you get extra benefits to justify the cost, you deserve it. I just wish they wouldn't accomplish that by taking benefits away from other members. As far as I can see, aside from perks you can get you get yourself by opening a credit card or renting points, you get a lounge in Epcot, evening access to a bar with a view in BLT and moonlight magic. Maybe discounted passes return at some point? Is there more that I don't understand? But I understand you don't want to talk about this you want to talk about a bar with cartoon villains so I'll move along now and look for a thread that drills down more into these topics as I find it interesting and want to learn more.

 

[Matty B13]

Been an owner since 2016 with the first resale restrictions, it's funny how most owners back then didn't worry about this change in membership. Now 6 years later, just about every owner can list all the benefits that have been taken away and some are now contemplating selling their contracts. 6 years ago with the new restrictions just about every owners would say to "buy in", and don't worry about it. Now most owners (including myself) won't recommend DVC for most people due to the cost and the unpredictability of management.

 

[john7994]

Well this is all true of course. In general I believe many validate to purchase cost knowing there is a resell option that holds value. I get DVC cares about direct but the price is inflated and holds it's ability to sell there partially due to value on the resale market. They cannot absolutely destroy that market without hurting themselves somewhat. Not everyone thinks through their financial decisions and not everyone plans that far ahead... I also know buying as a young adult I plan to maybe resell but if I was older there would be less concern. Diminishing the resale market doesn't matter to some but it definitely hurts it and I wonder how much thought they give to it.

Very reasonable - and I am somewhat keen on what / how they manage the resale market. Its likely not in their best interest to let the resale market fall too low - as it will drag on the premium direct pricing. With that said and in mind, I think they will better delineate "tiers" of value going forward. While I could accuse Disney of being a bit short-sighted lately, they aren't dumb as evidenced by the win-win and all the levers they control in the DVC product as a whole. The other element that Disney absolutely counts on, beyond just dues, is the frequency and level of park, food, and merch spend of their DVC owners.

By the way, thanks for the reasonable discussion - its much appreciated!

 

[BeachClub2014]

It's not about me or my situation, it's about the value (or lack thereof) in buying direct. And the lack of reasonable entry to blue card status (unless you want to buy VGF, then maybe) A topic that seems to upset many and trigger defensive justifications. My situation was simply an illustrative example. The topic itself being obviously triggered by this move by DVD to change the status of a venue and remove a perk from one class.

For those that don't understand why some of us are upset about it or think it's "cheesy" it's that they've not added anything. Blue card members are getting nothing new, they're retaining a benefit they already had, while others are losing a benefit they previously enjoyed. So to make one class of people feel special they do it at the expense of the other class of people. That's all. Are they allowed to do it? Sure. Do some of us think it's a crappy way to add value and entice more direct members, yes. If you paid many thousands of dollars for a blue card I hope you get extra benefits to justify the cost, you deserve it. I just wish they wouldn't accomplish that by taking benefits away from other members. As far as I can see, aside from perks you can get you get yourself by opening a credit card or renting points, you get a lounge in Epcot, evening access to a bar with a view in BLT and moonlight magic. Maybe discounted passes return at some point? Is there more that I don't understand? But I understand you don't want to talk about this you want to talk about a bar with cartoon villains so I'll move along now and look for a thread that drills down more into these topics as I find it interesting and want to learn more.

I totally understand why many are upset by this and other moves made by Disney, writ large. I can also understand why DVC/DVD is making some of the moves that they are. I, too, wish that DVC/DVD wouldn't reduce benefits to some members, but they have.

We've bought points both directly and resale over the years. We've evaluated which route brought us the best value for our money based on the resort in which we were wanting points. The direct points have allowed us to lock in unrestricted access to current and future resorts, and access to current or future benefits. Those were only part of the equation for us to determine value.

I do tend to get a little bristly when some folks (not saying that you are doing so) paint all "Blue Card" members as snobbish, special, or in any way better than any other member. I do not feel that way at all. I do like the fact that my point qualifications allow me to access the benefits and perks of membership.

 

[Liquidice]

I wonder if this page will get updated before July 11th?

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/faq/reselling#what-is-included

This is what that page looks like right now:

 

[pianomanzano]

The direct points have allowed us to lock in unrestricted access to current and future resorts, and access to current or future benefits. Those were only part of the equation for us to determine value.

This right here. We started resale and added direct, not for all the perks like moonlight magic or ride previews (which aren’t guaranteed since they’re done by lottery until they’re filled) or access to a different AP (not even a discount), or trading in points for cruises (which are a poor use of points). Unrestricted points is such a big deal for us that we were looking in to trading our resale for more direct points.

 

[john7994]

This right here. We started resale and added direct, not for all the perks like moonlight magic or ride previews (which aren’t guaranteed since they’re done by lottery until they’re filled) or access to a different AP (not even a discount), or trading in points for cruises (which are a poor use of points). Unrestricted points is such a big deal for us that we were looking in to trading our resale for more direct points.

We have this conversation at least once a month in our household...

 

[Liquidice]

BTW- Thought it was interesting to hear in this conversation about DVC Guides trying to push the new resorts only - it may have been different when I bought in 2019 - but I started out asking about buying 100 points at BLT and not once was I told to consider Riviera (which was a brand new resort at the time) or Aulani. I was only told I'd have to be put on a waitlist to buy my 100 points at BLT and the very next day I got a call saying my points were available.

Yes I probably paid too much money for the 100 points at BLT (that was the minimum to get a blue card back then) - but I then added on another 160 points at BLT via resale and was able to buy the DVC Annual Pass each year since then (I've renewed each time). I know perks are never guaranteed, but I justified the purchase back then using the savings I would get from buying 4 DVC APs each year vs buying 4 Platinum (at the time) APs. I believe I calculated the break even point as 6 years from time of purchase. Its different now of course because new members can't buy APs, but that was the math I did

Any other perks for me were just gravy.

 

[Jenglish13]

I totally understand why many are upset by this and other moves made by Disney, writ large. I can also understand why DVC/DVD is making some of the moves that they are. I, too, wish that DVC/DVD wouldn't reduce benefits to some members, but they have.

We've bought points both directly and resale over the years. We've evaluated which route brought us the best value for our money based on the resort in which we were wanting points. The direct points have allowed us to lock in unrestricted access to current and future resorts, and access to current or future benefits. Those were only part of the equation for us to determine value.

I do tend to get a little bristly when some folks (not saying that you are doing so) paint all "Blue Card" members as snobbish, special, or in any way better than any other member. I do not feel that way at all. I do like the fact that my point qualifications allow me to access the benefits and perks of membership.

Ok that makes some sense to me. I considered that and figured I'd rent or transfer points with other members if I wanted to book something my points didn't have access to. Does the prospect of transferring or renting points seem like too much of a hassle? I've not done it yet so perhaps it isn't as simple as I'm thinking.
And yes to be clear I'm certainly not trying to say anything about the members themselves being 'special' or 'snobbish' more about Disney's marketing practices.

 

[BeachClub2014]

Ok that makes some sense to me. I considered that and figured I'd rent or transfer points with other members if I wanted to book something my points didn't have access to. Does the prospect of transferring or renting points seem like too much of a hassle? I've not done it yet so perhaps it isn't as simple as I'm thinking.
And yes to be clear I'm certainly not trying to say anything about the members themselves being 'special' or 'snobbish' more about Disney's marketing practices.

I've never rented points from other members, but that's my hang-up. The thought of handing over money to a complete stranger on nothing more than a promise and handshake (I know that this is an over-simplification) makes me shiver with anxiety. I'd never do that. But tons of people do it successfully all of the time, so I am not knocking the rental market. In fact, we just rented out (for the first time ever) some new points that we bought that had been banked and were about to expire.

Renting is a very successful strategy for many folks, which is great.

 

[wnielsen1]

If people are this upset about TOTWL, I think they are going to be really upset in the future. It is obvious that Disney is doubling down on differentiating direct vs. resale. I am expecting the following:

1. All new builds will have resale restrictions and that includes Poly2 and the DL tower. The only exception will be a VGF style quick conversion.
2. This rumored new benefit tier will happen and will not be available to resale (or the pricing will be set so high for resale that you would be better off buying a qualifying direct contract).
3. More "blue card" lounges and other spaces.
4. Expect AP and perhaps other ticketing benefits to return once demand for the theme parks softens, although those may be rolled into the new benefit tier.