Thoughts from a 20 Year DVC Member

[DVCSunDevil]

We enjoyed using G+/LL. Spent time in the parks in the morning during early hours until it got too busy for our liking and spent the late morning / afternoon enjoying the resort and building a good G+/LL plan for the evening. I liked the "freeness" of FP+, but I liked more flexibility with G+/LL. We would go back to HS / MK in the evenings with 4 or 5 rides lined up in the matter of 90 minutes.

Do you mean you lined up 4 or 5 rides with G+ or with FP+? We are taking our first trip in February since G+ launched and are still trying to figure out the best way to utilize it. Thanks!

 

[DVCSunDevil]

The more I read this the more I regret buying DVC and I haven’t even used it after May 2020 purchase

Wait until you have your first stay and see the difference in what you are paying for deluxe accommodations. Then your feelings will change!

 

[Carol_]

So, last day of WDW today… I’m luxuriating in the private hot tub of a CCV cabin while the family sleeps. AAAAAAAAH
That said, Genie+ was a flop at HS yesterday. We paid for it and one LL for Millenium Falcon which made us wait an hour past when we wanted to leave just to use it. We asked for and were refused mercy, so we sat at a picnic table nearby, exhausted, watching the minutes click by so we could say we rode three rides instead of two after 4 hours of park day. On a very busy day like yesterday, if you don’t sign in in the morning, just save your money and skip the parks.
The Bison cheeseburger at Geyser Point was on point. Cocktail was good, too. The actual resort was lovely.

 

[TinkFan74]

I have only been a member since 2011, and I love DVC, but the changes in the parks, the increase in crowds mixed with the decrease in customer service, and the discontinuation of Magical Express has made me rethink how I travel. Instead of making one to two visits per year and staying in a studio, we are now going to go once every other year and stay in a bigger unit. There is a lot in this world to explore and Disney has unintentionally given me the motivation to do that.

 

[Chuck S]

Has it gotten more complicated over the years? Absolutely. But at the same time, the FP+ also required planning, and picking a park for those fast passes and dining reservations. We had APs long before a DVC Discount and special AP types became available, so never personally experienced expiring tickets.

The fly in the ointment for me is Genie+. It was a disaster over Thanksgiving. I much preferred FP+, so you could plan at least a few ride/attractions around your dining reservations in advance. In fact, they refunded Genie+ the one day I tried it. Another bit of contention was not grandfathering out the unactivated Gold passes, at least for this year, after plans and theme parks arrangements had been made in advance. If you're going to make changes like that, give people enough warning that they don't already have hotel/DVC reservations, flights and so forth booked. Not making an announcement only a couple months in advance of arrival. After at least 8 hours spent on 4 phone calls, plus emails, they DID add complimentary hopper days to my MDE to use on the days they cut off from our trip with the new blackout dates. And again, changing dates isn't the issue. Things change. The timing of the announcements and changes is what was really bad.

That said, while we'll NEVER go over a holiday again (tried to warn the group) the resort was lovely, and we still managed to have an OK time, just didn't get on very many rides or shows.

And some of the changes are good. The all you can eat meal at Liberty Tree (lunch used to be a la carte) was pricey, but excellent. And they had a gluten free version of EVERYTHING, including mac & cheese, and gravy, for the person in our party who is gluten free. They are much better with allergies than they were even a couple of years ago.

But it is Genie+ that may encourage me to do some offsite attractions, and even local classic venues. Years ago we'd take a day from each trip to do something local. That remains an option, even possibly expanding it to an occasional full stay, using DVC as the hotel, but not doing Disney Parks.

 

[RangerPooh]

We joined DVC after they discontinued the free APs, but have appreciated the discounted AP and water park tickets. For our large family the discount is appreciated. The larger accommodations, kitchens, Community Hall for the kids, free laundry, it's all appreciated.

What I miss is the advance registration that DVC members had for Run Disney. We also had a $10 discount for race registration, but that's been gone for a long time. We also miss Tables in Wonderland and the discount that it provided. The holiday parties are also gone. While we only attended a few DVC member parties, I miss them. We attended the Christmas one that they hosted just outside the International Gateway at EPCOT in the 00s which I think was free, and had characters for photos, received an ornament, as well as the Halloween party in 2019, which while had a cost cheaper than the in-park party, had games, characters, and food. With the jump in maintenance fees this year we're considering selling some of our points.

 

[zavandor]

Genie+ actually eliminated one of the primary advance planning steps: there's no longer a need, nor even an ability, to schedule ride times in advance. That seemed to be a popular criticism of FP+, so I guess some people finally got their wish...

I'll put that in the "Beware of what you wish for" column.

Personally, my stay during last early December has been the least pleasant I've ever experienced at WDW. It was a combination of greater crowds I've been used to, reduced entertainment (which is a big part I enjoy in the parks) and the launch of G+, a service which was 6 months of tests and QA away from being usable. Anyone who decided it was ready for production should be fired.

(And let's agree to never talk about Genie, the free service that recommends you to rope drop Prince Charming carousel).

 

[tjkraz]

I'll put that in the "Beware of what you wish for" column.

You're basically echoing the sentiment I've expressed every time someone complained about FP+ over the last decade.

Without going into specifics of your issues, Genie+ basically *IS* the paper FastPass system that debuted back in 1998. And aside from the fees, this is what many people were apparently clamoring for: no advance reservations, uncertain return times, difficulty obtaining passes for top attractions, little flexibility to make changes, etc.

It always mystified me that people would wax poetic about the days where getting FP for Toy Story Mania meant arriving at park open, sprinting to the FP machines, waiting in a 30 minute line to get passes with a 5:30pm return time. But here we are.

 

[kes601]

I'll put that in the "Beware of what you wish for" column.

Personally, my stay during last early December has been the least pleasant I've ever experienced at WDW. It was a combination of greater crowds I've been used to, reduced entertainment (which is a big part I enjoy in the parks) and the launch of G+, a service which was 6 months of tests and QA away from being usable. Anyone who decided it was ready for production should be fired.

(And let's agree to never talk about Genie, the free service that recommends you to rope drop Prince Charming carousel).

For us, G+ was great over our two week Christmas stay. I think the big difference was folding in 1 of the fancy individual lightning lanes in each park into G+ rather than selling them individually. I've been looking at availability and when parks are out of G+ reservations this week and I would not be happy. We learned to go in the morning and get what we could early and then reserve something for the evening when we left (which was usually by 10:00). We could then get another one every 2 hours and have a pretty good evening lined up. But this week it looks like they are all pretty much gone by 2 or 3 in the afternoon. They did a great job of learning from Thanksgiving and fixing it for Christmas, but they need to fix it for other times as well.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

I guess I’m looking at this from a different angle but for us getting older means we still want to stay at our DVC accommodation but are less and less worried about park time. Once the 18 year old stops going with us we probably won’t buy tickets and will enjoy the resorts, pools, the sunshine ( we I’ve in a colder country) wine on our balcony maybe mini golf and golf. We love many restaurants and our memories of going there with the kids but we can take or leave the parks

See, this is me to a T. I always tell people that the big thing DVC did to me is that I do not do the EPCOT Death March anymore. I don't park till I drop, then drag myself out of bed and do it over and over and over again until when I get home, I am so exhausted and worn out that I wish I had never went in the first place. That was Disney pre-DVC.

Disney post DVC is RELAX. I go to the parks for a few hours in the morning. I have always been an early riser, so it's no big deal to me. When the parks get busy, I go back to the resort. I may go to Disney Springs for Dinner. I enjoy things like the Hoop Dee Doo (I wish so much it was back). I do mini golf. I enjoy the pools. I take or leave the fireworks depending if I am up to it.

None of those things have really changed with the only exception being DME. While I miss DME, to be honest, I really am enjoying a private limo ride to the resort now and kinda wish I had done it earlier. When I used DME, I hated it almost every.... single... time.... Just not enough to look into other options.

Genie+ basically *IS* the paper FastPass system that debuted back in 1998. And aside from the fees, this is what many people were apparently clamoring for: no advance reservations, uncertain return times, difficulty obtaining passes for top attractions, little flexibility to make changes, etc.

It always mystified me that people would wax poetic about the days where getting FP for Toy Story Mania meant arriving at park open, sprinting to the FP machines, waiting in a 30 minute line to get passes with a 5:30pm return time. But here we are.

Ironic, isn't it? For years, all we hear is "FP+ is terrible. Bring back the paper method". Then we get a slightly upgraded paper method and everyone says it's the worst idea ever. LOL. Personally, I just find the whole thing amusing.

To those who are "regretting buying after reading this" - don't. In these message boards you have to learn to tune out the depressing negative Nancy's. There are many of them. A few of the regulars have piped up here. You will get to know them. They come on every thread and try to drown everyone in sorrow. DVC is still as good as it always ways, and it will still change the way you vacation. use it right and you will return home refreshed instead of exhausted.

Remember - Disney has evolved over the last 50 years and it will evolve for the next 500 years. The things you do not like today will probably not be the rules in 10 years from now, just like they were not the rules 10 years ago.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

You're basically echoing the sentiment I've expressed every time someone complained about FP+ over the last decade.

Without going into specifics of your issues, Genie+ basically *IS* the paper FastPass system that debuted back in 1998. And aside from the fees, this is what many people were apparently clamoring for: no advance reservations, uncertain return times, difficulty obtaining passes for top attractions, little flexibility to make changes, etc.

It always mystified me that people would wax poetic about the days where getting FP for Toy Story Mania meant arriving at park open, sprinting to the FP machines, waiting in a 30 minute line to get passes with a 5:30pm return time. But here we are.

Genie+ isn't the old FP system, not even close. The old FP system did not restrict you from repeating rides which IMO is a big negative of Genie+. Plus it wasn't something you were charged for. Plus you couldn't get the old paper FP until you were actually standing at the machine. Plus they didn't withhold 2 top rides at each park in order to charge more. It seems like the only things that are the same is it's 2 hours or until you've used the FP before you can pick your next one and they use the same lines at the attractions as they did with the old FP system.

When things require an additional payment you actually expect to get something for that money. And I think they would be better off to require park entry before you can select a FP. For all hotel guests to be able to book their first at 7am and everybody else at park opening whether they are there or not is just a poor decision that was probably done because they feared an outcry in the change from the FP+ preselection. And of course it should have had all rides included. Best I can guess is that all of these decisions in combination are what is creating many of the issues. DL had the Maxpass which did follow the old paper FP system but allowed you to do it without walking to the machine all while they still also offered the no upcharge paper FP's and Maxpass was a joy to use.

 

[kes601]

And I think they would be better off to require park entry before you can select a FP. For all hotel guests to be able to book their first at 7am and everybody else at park opening whether they are there or not is just a poor decision that was probably done because they feared an outcry in the change from the FP+ preselection.

This part is incorrect unless I am interpreting your statement incorrectly. All guests who have purchased G+ can reserve their first ride at 7a. The fancy individual lightning lane rides are the ones that on site guests can purchase at 7a and others have to wait until park opening.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

This part is incorrect unless I am interpreting your statement incorrectly. All guests who have purchased G+ can reserve their first ride at 7a. The fancy individual lightning lane rides are the ones that on site guests can purchase at 7a and others have to wait until park opening.

Thanks for the correction. I thought it was a hotel guest benefit to reserve at 7am. So it's even worse since everyone can.

 

[tjkraz]

Genie+ isn't the old FP system, not even close. The old FP system did not restrict you from repeating rides which IMO is a big negative of Genie+. Plus it wasn't something you were charged for. Plus you couldn't get the old paper FP until you were actually standing at the machine. Plus they didn't withhold 2 top rides at each park in order to charge more. It seems like the only things that are the same is it's 2 hours or until you've used the FP before you can pick your next one and they use the same lines at the attractions as they did with the old FP system.

Everybody hates the fees, that's a given.

But operationally, Genie+ is infinitely closer to legacy FastPass than FP+. And it carries many of the same old limitations: the 2 hour windows, need to be up early to begin making reservations, the inflexibility in return times, the need to keep checking the phone over and over again make new reservations (which I guess is a modest improvement over crossing the park to get paper tickets), etc.

Even if G+ allowed us to re-ride attractions and didn't have the individual selections, it would still suck.

...Maxpass was a joy to use.

Speaking as someone who grew accustomed to selecting 3 preferred attractions days in advance and lining up return times in a logical fashion, no Maxpass wasn't a joy. Trying to fill 45 minutes while waiting to redeem a timed pass, with the only modest standby lines half a park away, was less than ideal.

But like @zavandor said, be careful what you wish for...

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Everybody hates the fees, that's a given.

But operationally, Genie+ is infinitely closer to legacy FastPass than FP+. And it carries many of the same old limitations: the 2 hour windows, need to be up early to begin making reservations, the inflexibility in return times, the need to keep checking the phone over and over again make new reservations (which I guess is a modest improvement over crossing the park to get paper tickets), etc.

Even if G+ allowed us to re-ride attractions and didn't have the individual selections, it would still suck.



Speaking as someone who grew accustomed to selecting 3 preferred attractions days in advance and lining up return times in a logical fashion, no Maxpass wasn't a joy. Trying to fill 45 minutes while waiting to redeem a timed pass, with the only modest standby lines half a park away, was less than ideal.

But like @zavandor said, be careful what you wish for...

To like one system over the other is fine but sorry, it is not the old FP system that you want to tell people they shouldn't have wished to have back. If you liked guaranteeing 3 rides and weren't going to bother with anything more than FP+ was your system. However you list the one thing I said was the same - wait 2 hours or until you've used the FP to declare Genie+ the same as paper FP's. One thing. If that's the criteria for "operationally similar" then one could say that being able to preselect a FP well before you may enter a park makes it operationally similar to FP+ but that's as incorrect as the one thing you have singled out.

I'm not following MaxPass, standby lines (?) and waiting 45 minutes. If you only wait for FP times then with any system you'll be killing time. Most major rides are spaced apart from each other so if that has always been the goal then you'll be walking across the parks. At least with Maxpass you didn't have to walk over to the ride to get the FP and then figure out what to do after picking it up - and that's what made it so nice. We always had things to pick and choose from though.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

Genie+ isn't the old FP system, not even close. The old FP system did not restrict you from repeating rides which IMO is a big negative of Genie+.

I would argue that for all practical purposes it did. Since you could only get one ticket every 2 hours, and most of the popular rides went quickly, by the time you were eligible for a second one, they would all be gone. The less popular rides, you are correct that it's an additional restriction (and frankly one that makes no sense and it would not surprise me if they removed it), but it is of limited use in those rides anyway. So you are correct, but for most practical applications, it really doesn't matter.

Plus it wasn't something you were charged for.

I believe he covered that and said that was one obvious difference.

Plus you couldn't get the old paper FP until you were actually standing at the machine.

I kinda figured most people would have seen that as a PLUS. One person's positive is another's negative, it's true. But I think for most intents and purposes people actually consider this a BENEFIT of Genie.

Plus they didn't withhold 2 top rides at each park in order to charge more.

This one is true enough.

It seems like the only things that are the same is it's 2 hours or until you've used the FP before you can pick your next one and they use the same lines at the attractions as they did with the old FP system.

And you can't reserve them until that day. I mean that's really all the old system was. They really are more alike then different and technically much closer to a digital version of the FP then they are to FP+. If you changed FP to use bluetooth instead, and made it free and removed the ILL, you would have FP.

Note - I am not saying Genie+ is all that great - I have not tried it. I am just saying that I see the point that IN MANY WAYS, it is the old paper system in enhanced digital form.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

See, this is me to a T. I always tell people that the big thing DVC did to me is that I do not do the EPCOT Death March anymore. I don't park till I drop, then drag myself out of bed and do it over and over and over again until when I get home, I am so exhausted and worn out that I wish I had never went in the first place. That was Disney pre-DVC.

Disney post DVC is RELAX. I go to the parks for a few hours in the morning. I have always been an early riser, so it's no big deal to me. When the parks get busy, I go back to the resort. I may go to Disney Springs for Dinner. I enjoy things like the Hoop Dee Doo (I wish so much it was back). I do mini golf. I enjoy the pools. I take or leave the fireworks depending if I am up to it.

None of those things have really changed with the only exception being DME. While I miss DME, to be honest, I really am enjoying a private limo ride to the resort now and kinda wish I had done it earlier. When I used DME, I hated it almost every.... single... time.... Just not enough to look into other options.



Ironic, isn't it? For years, all we hear is "FP+ is terrible. Bring back the paper method". Then we get a slightly upgraded paper method and everyone says it's the worst idea ever. LOL. Personally, I just find the whole thing amusing.

To those who are "regretting buying after reading this" - don't. In these message boards you have to learn to tune out the depressing negative Nancy's. There are many of them. A few of the regulars have piped up here. You will get to know them. They come on every thread and try to drown everyone in sorrow. DVC is still as good as it always ways, and it will still change the way you vacation. use it right and you will return home refreshed instead of exhausted.

Remember - Disney has evolved over the last 50 years and it will evolve for the next 500 years. The things you do not like today will probably not be the rules in 10 years from now, just like they were not the rules 10 years ago.

I totally agree on how DVC changes the Disney vacation. We used to go for 7 days and do parks for 5 or 6 days. It was exhausting. I seriously got sick the last three times we went to WDW pre-DVC. Now we still go for the week but we only do 3 or 4 park days. We love the resort and really enjoy just chilling by the pool for the day when we aren’t at a park, or popping over to Disney Springs. On park days, we now go back to the resort mid day for a little R&R then hit the park again at night. It’s so much more relaxing! I think our attitude shifted because we now KNOW we will be back next year, whereas before we felt like we had to jam full park days in because there was no telling when we would be back (although it was usually around every two years). It’s awesome. Writing this is getting me excited for our trip in February

 

[Chuck S]

I have not tried it. I am just saying that I see the point that IN MANY WAYS, it is the old paper system in enhanced digital form.

I'm not sure the digitalization is an "enhancement." -

 

[dcfromva]

We have been DVC members since Feb 2002, so I guess our 20 year anniversary is coming up next month!

I think one of the underlying problems to the fast pass system is there just aren't enough new attractions for folks to go on and so Disney has to ration the access to the high demand attractions.

I thought Fast Pass was a great advancement when it came on line, but I didn't like to have to go fetch the fast pass at the attraction and then come back later.

FP+ took care of that. I liked saving a few steps, but I didn't like scheduling attractions in advance of our trip. Also, this is where Disney started rationing the attractions you could get. You could only sign up for 3 in advance. Then, you could not pick the most popular attractions. For example, (IIRC) you could not get Frozen, Soarin and Test Track. In order to schedule all 3, you would have to do it over several days. You could get another fast pass after the 3 were used, but the most popular attractions might be out of fast passes by that time.

But, even with the rationing, there were times when I knew before I even left on a trip to Disney World that I would not have fast pass access to attractions such as Frozen, 7DMT or Flight of Passage for the entire trip. (And I wasn't nimble enough to get on the Rise of the Resistance virtual queue--so I did not experience that attraction until this year with the help of my more tech savvy nieces. )

I didn't necessarily like paying extra for Maxpass at Disneyland, but it was the system with which I have had the most success using so far.

I think Disney has come up with a system to monetize excess demand while rationing access to the attraction. Here's what I mean: They could have added the price of Genie + and ILL to each ticket. But, maybe the ride capacity will not allow for everyone who enters a given park to get on the most popular attractions. I think charging extra will adjust the demand. I know it has altered my behavior. I think I am good with going on RotR maybe once an entire visit (or maybe every other visit). It has allowed me to schedule the ride (if I want to pay) whereas before I would have been completely shut out.

I just have not figured out how to optimize genie + to where it is not an irritation. I am paying extra for it, so I expect to get my money's worth. This is where the underlying problem (not enough attractions that I'm interested in going on) comes into play. For example, there are about 4 genie + / ILL attractions that I enjoy going on at Disney Studios. They are RotR, Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Train, Toy Story Mania and sometimes ToT. (A lot of the other attractions give me motion sickness and it just isn't worth going on and feeling ill for the rest of the day.) So, it hardly makes genie + cost effective (for me). With shopping and looking at a couple of other attractions (for which no genie +/ILL is either available or just not necessary), I'm done with the Disney Studios in half a day. Park hopping is available after 2pm, but then a lot of the more popular attractions will be out of genie + selections by the time I get over to the other park (like peter pan/7DMT).

I think genie + probably did work better (for me) at DL than at WDW because there are more attractions that I like going on (per park), but one interesting thing that I ran into going with an extended group was if we were not all together--we might go on the standby line so we could save our one time per day genie + access to go with the entire group. That sometimes ended up where we didn't use it at all for a particular attraction because we had already gone on the attraction and we couldn't coordinate the group activity (before they ran out of Ill/genie+ll).

Anyway, if I don't use genie + on a lot of attractions I start to question whether genie + was worth the extra $$.

I don't know how genie+ translates for first time visitors. I assume this group would be more interested in going on more of the genie + attractions, so maybe it is more cost effective?

 

[ganban]

I have only been a member since 2011, and I love DVC, but the changes in the parks, the increase in crowds mixed with the decrease in customer service, and the discontinuation of Magical Express has made me rethink how I travel. Instead of making one to two visits per year and staying in a studio, we are now going to go once every other year and stay in a bigger unit. There is a lot in this world to explore and Disney has unintentionally given me the motivation to do that.

I like “There is a lot in this world to explore”. We have been bringing one of our four kids and their family every year for the last 12 years. But now with loss of magical express, paying extra for rides, skyrocketing cost of tickets and annal passes, we’re starting to think in a different direction. Hmmmm…..maybe a cruise or a trip to Yellowstone or Grand Canyon. We’ll see. (Whenever this COVID crap evens out, of course)