Thoughts from a 20 Year DVC Member

[WilsonFlyer]

Lamenting? Seriously?

I'd say for most of us, this has nothing to do with grief or sorrow. I think a lot of us are pissed. And tired of it. And not in a sad sort of way. Not at all.

 

[sagosto]

Wait until you have your first stay and see the difference in what you are paying for deluxe accommodations. Then your feelings will change!

This is a very interesting thread to see the difference of opinions with the vets vs. new DVC such as myself. Deluxe isn't much to me. I'd rather be in the bubble even at Art Of Animation which is my current favorite. So, if a person staying in $50 Kissimmee motel can spend $10 for G$$ and have the same advantages as I do (yes, I can get in the park early but I have young kids/snowflakes so that doesn't work for me), then what did I just spend $100K on? I go in the park and stay all day. The park is what's important to me.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

This is a very interesting thread to see the difference of opinions with the vets vs. new DVC such as myself. Deluxe isn't much to me. I'd rather be in the bubble even at Art Of Animation which is my current favorite. So, if a person staying in $50 Kissimmee motel can spend $10 for G$$ and have the same advantages as I do (yes, I can get in the park early but I have young kids/snowflakes so that doesn't work for me), then what did I just spend $100K on? I go in the park and stay all day. The park is what's important to me.

DVC isn't for everyone. If someone doesn't care about deluxe accommodations then maybe DVC won't work for them. However, another way to look at it is that with DVC you are getting deluxe accommodations for the price of value/economy accommodations. If someone routinely goes to WDW every year (and projects to keep doing so in the future), then DVC is something they should consider. Everyone is in a different situation, though, and many won't want to spend the upfront $$.

 

[sagosto]

DVC isn't for everyone. If someone doesn't care about deluxe accommodations then maybe DVC won't work for them. However, another way to look at it is that with DVC you are getting deluxe accommodations for the price of value/economy accommodations. If someone routinely goes to WDW every year (and projects to keep doing so in the future), then DVC is something they should consider. Everyone is in a different situation, though, and many won't want to spend the upfront $$.

This is fair. Part of my issue is DVC was bought right before changes were made (no character dining, FP removal, etc.) that is spoiling it for me. Disney tried given me the 'COVID' BS for lack of characters and that just annoys me. It's similar to how Disney is trying to tell me they are giving me 'options' or 'freedom' or whatever spin to justify Magic Express being removed. Simply put: it's ALL money grabs. This is hard to swallow when I have a $100K commitment and now have to wake up at 7AM to PAY for a FP that was previously free.

 

[Chuck S]

This is fair. Part of my issue is DVC was bought right before changes were made (no character dining, FP removal, etc.) that is spoiling it for me. Disney tried given me the 'COVID' BS for lack of characters and that just annoys me. It's similar to how Disney is trying to tell me they are giving me 'options' or 'freedom' or whatever spin to justify Magic Express being removed. Simply put: it's ALL money grabs. This is hard to swallow when I have a $100K commitment and now have to wake up at 7AM to PAY for a FP that was previously free.

Park offerings, ticket types, prices, character greets have changed a LOT over the last 30+ years of DVC. If owners are not able to accept that there WILL be changes, some short term changes, some long term changes, over the life of their contracts, then DVC, and long term time shares in general, are likely not a good match for their needs. Also realize, that while obviously linked, DVC and Disney Parks are two separate operating entities. Character dining is a short term loss, it will be back in full swing when it is safe to do so, and when Disney has enough employees. It is a very profitable thing for Disney. It isn't gone forever. You simply purchased a long term commitment in DVC at a time where there are short term issues worldwide. I personally would like to see the Luau return, but I understand the logistics of right now are difficult. Many of those cast members and performers returned to their families in Hawaii. Air travel is still a mess, and expensive. It just isn't practical to restart that dinner show at this time.

I'd like to remind everyone of the DISBoards policies on COVID discussion:

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The discussions, debates and arguments about the virus, distancing and masking policies, various politicians’ statements and actions have been overwhelming and divisive. Many threads on the DISboards have been derailed or devolved into arguments due to this topic. We understand the passion, but feel that we’ve let the discussions run their course. We are sure there are better places on the WWW to learn about and debate scientific, medical and political issues. The mission of the DISboards is to be a great travel resource and a friendly community.

Now that travel is opening up again, it’s time to refocus on that mission!

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[RoseGold]

So, if a person staying in $50 Kissimmee motel can spend $10 for G$$ and have the same advantages as I do (yes, I can get in the park early but I have young kids/snowflakes so that doesn't work for me), then what did I just spend $100K on?

While I was staying at BW, Marriott gave me a targeted Instagram ad for $149 for Swolphin, and I gotta say it had my attention. It’s been a long time since I stayed there, but I thought it had actual deluxe beds/linens/bathrobes — and it has the deluxe perk of getting to plan at 7AM and the late night hours…

The housekeeping entering after two knocks at 8:45 AM and the sad linens were worse than I remember.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

As far as paper FP, you are right that you would sprint across the park to get the ones you wanted, and if it was a busy day, or if you tried to get one later in the day, you would get there only to find the machines were covered because tickets were gone. We did have to think on our feet and be more flexible, but there was no alternative. The best part for me was it was an even playing field. I suppose Genie + is supposed to be that too, but for a fee.

But the things is, it was NOT an even playing field. As a kid, I saw it as an even playing field. I used to sprint across the park - literally jumping the rope - to the favorite rides, family tickets in hand - along with a bunch of other sprinters. I remember when TSM opened, it got so out of hand and people got hurt so that Disney CM's used to walk us over there in a line with many of us about .00000001 inches behind them (they would get playful about your feet being behind theirs).

But while we think it was level, IT WAS NOT. Do you think the people in wheelchairs had an even chance? Older people who can't walk fast? Was it an even playing field to them? Absolutely not. How about for parents with 2 year olds? Was it even for them? Ever try to herd a 2 year old across a park at breakneck speed amidst a stampeding horde of large feet?

It was an even playing field only for able bodied people or groups with able bodied runners.

I have come to understand that as I have matured and aged. And I am not saying that for myself. As a DVC owner, I go to Disney a lot. Not as much as a local, but more than the average family. If I do not get to see a ride this trip, I see it next trip. I don't really care. I choose not to try to see Rat last time. I almost never hit a ride on my first trip after it opens. So I really don't care for me. But I can tell you that it was NOT and NEVER WAS a level playing field. FP+ and Genie+ are far more level, even though not perfect since they depend on your knowledge of technology.

Park offerings, ticket types, prices, character greets have changed a LOT over the last 30+ years of DVC. If owners are not able to accept that there WILL be changes, some short term changes, some long term changes, over the life of their contracts, then DVC, and long term time shares in general, are likely not a good match for their needs.

This is something I find myself repeating time and time again. WDW is celebrating it's 50th year. WDW has evolved over the past 50 years, and will continue to evolve for the next 500. Rules, options, rides, and everything in between will not be the same 50 years from now. They won't be the same 10 years from now, just as they are not the same today as they were 10 years ago. By the same token, DVC is now 30 years old and will also continue to change and evolve and will not be the same 10 years from now as IT is not the same today as it was 10 years ago.

If the rules change of a few years bother you, then you are a very much in the moment person, and a long term commitment such as DVC might not be the correct vehicle for you to invest your futures in. You would be more served to put your money into an investment vehicle and go where you please at that time understanding that the world changes and where you are interested in tomorrow is not where you are interested in today. DVC is really more for people who have a long term belief in the product that Disney offers and are willing to commit to that understanding that there will be changes - both ones you like and maybe some you do not.

 

[Chuck S]

But the things is, it was NOT an even playing field. As a kid, I saw it as an even playing field. I used to sprint across the park - literally jumping the rope - to the favorite rides, family tickets in hand - along with a bunch of other sprinters. I remember when TSM opened, it got so out of hand and people got hurt so that Disney CM's used to walk us over there in a line with many of us about .00000001 inches behind them (they would get playful about your feet being behind theirs).

But while we think it was level, IT WAS NOT. Do you think the people in wheelchairs had an even chance? Older people who can't walk fast? Was it an even playing field to them? Absolutely not. How about for parents with 2 year olds? Was it even for them? Ever try to herd a 2 year old across a park at breakneck speed amidst a stampeding horde of large feet?

It was an even playing field only for able bodied people or groups with able bodied runners.

I have come to understand that as I have matured and aged. And I am not saying that for myself. As a DVC owner, I go to Disney a lot. Not as much as a local, but more than the average family. If I do not get to see a ride this trip, I see it next trip. I don't really care. I choose not to try to see Rat last time. I almost never hit a ride on my first trip after it opens. So I really don't care for me. But I can tell you that it was NOT and NEVER WAS a level playing field. FP+ and Genie+ are far more level, even though not perfect since they depend on your knowledge of technology.



This is something I find myself repeating time and time again. WDW is celebrating it's 50th year. WDW has evolved over the past 50 years, and will continue to evolve for the next 500. Rules, options, rides, and everything in between will not be the same 50 years from now. They won't be the same 10 years from now, just as they are not the same today as they were 10 years ago. By the same token, DVC is now 30 years old and will also continue to change and evolve and will not be the same 10 years from now as IT is not the same today as it was 10 years ago.

If the rules change of a few years bother you, then you are a very much in the moment person, and a long term commitment such as DVC might not be the correct vehicle for you to invest your futures in. You would be more served to put your money into an investment vehicle and go where you please at that time understanding that the world changes and where you are interested in tomorrow is not where you are interested in today. DVC is really more for people who have a long term belief in the product that Disney offers and are willing to commit to that understanding that there will be changes - both ones you like and maybe some you do not.

Here's what a Guest Services CM told me after an abysmal day with Genie plus...(which they refunded as we were only able to get on two rides) they said they evened the field because people that bought their park ticket the day of their visit were locked out of FP+.

I don't understand why Disney suddenly thinks guests that spend thousands of dollars to stay onsite at their hotels, plan in advance, and make ticket purchases in advance should not have more perks than the guests that stay offsite and divide their time between all the Orlando area attractions. I mean, why do airlines and hotels have frequent flier programs and hotel cards if not to recognize those that spend the most money? As it stands now, you could spend a fortune on accommodations at Disney, and still be locked out of the individual lightning lane rides at 7am, I know we were on the phones at 7am, and still could not get on Rise of the Resistance. I brought up an available time, and when we went to confirm and pay, it was gone. With fastpass plus, you could book a max of 3 rides in advance, and conveniently schedule them around dining reservations and actually ENJOY your time at the parks without having to stare at the screen of your phone all day. It's not DVCs fault that the people running the parks seem to have no idea how to actually encourage repeat tourism and customer brand loyalty.

 

[tjkraz]

If the choices are:

1. Wake up at 7am on vacation to reach the park at open and begin to make ride reservations (legacy FP)
2. Wake up at 7am on vacation to begin making reservations on my phone (Genie+)
3. Wake up at 7am 1-2 months before my vacation begins to make reservations from home, at times of my choosing (FP+)

....I'd take #3 every single time.

Agree with what Chuck said above. Somebody is always going to "lose" along the way. I can't feel sympathy for day guests when they choose to stay off site and not plan in advance.

If the operational changes we see moving from FP+ to Genie+ are truly designed to improve the experience of day guests at the expense of Disney hotel guests and repeat visitors, I think Disney is in for a rude awakening.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

Agree with you 100% but I am old too.

 

[AdamsMum]

So, in a single thread, we have folks lamenting the fact that they can’t park hop until 2 pm and the loss of spontaneity, while others lament the fact that they can’t make dining or fast pass reservations a half a year out anymore.

I didn't care for fp+ either, but I wouldn't say I'm "lamenting" that alone. I'm unsatisfied with the whole package---mobile order, paid fast passes, park reservations, hopping after 2, and the genie system that repeatedly tells me that the line is short for prince charming's carousel. Seriously? As for the hopping, my strategy was always to hop if I found a park too busy or just didn't feel like being there any more, and I wasn't required to reserve a park every day of my vacation, then tap in there and wait until 2 pm to go elsewhere. If I don't tap in there, then I can't go elsewhere after 2 even though I paid for hopping, and changing your park reservation on the "day of" is risky.

I'm old enough that I didn't grow up with a cell phone embedded in my palm. This all made my happy place, a not so comfortable zone. Fp+ didn't require me to be on my phone all day, and it didn't cost me extra on top of my nearly $700 theme park ticket.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I didn't care for fp+ either, but I wouldn't say I'm "lamenting" that alone. I'm unsatisfied with the whole package---mobile order, paid fast passes, park reservations, hopping after 2, and the genie system that repeatedly tells me that the line is short for prince charming's carousel. Seriously? As for the hopping, my strategy was always to hop if I found a park too busy or just didn't feel like being there any more, and I wasn't required to reserve a park every day of my vacation, then tap in there and wait until 2 pm to go elsewhere. If I don't tap in there, then I can't go elsewhere after 2 even though I paid for hopping, and changing your park reservation on the "day of" is risky.

I'm old enough that I didn't grow up with a cell phone embedded in my palm. This all made my happy place, a not so comfortable zone. Fp+ didn't require me to be on my phone all day, and it didn't cost me extra on top of my nearly $700 theme park ticket.

It's not really "paid FastPass" though, because the thing you're getting isn't the same thing that used to be free. The very fact that not EVERYONE has it means it's "better," at least in theory.

The analogy that I've used is... there used to be a free swimming pool with 100 people in it. Now there's a private pool that you have to pay for, but there's only 30 people in it. Yeah, it stinks that you can't swim for free anymore, but your paid experience should be better than the old free experience.

As for the other stuff, I roughly come down like this...

Changes I'm happy about: New EMH schedule, mobile order, deluxe extra hours

Changes I'm neutral about: Genie+, Park Pass, hopping after 2

Changes I hate: Elimination of DME, ILL

 

[SLThomas318]

Here's what a Guest Services CM in told me after an abysmal day with Genie plus...(which they refunded as we were only able to get on two rides) they said they evened the field because people that bought their park ticket the day of their visit were locked out of FP+.

I don't understand why Disney suddenly thinks guests that spend thousands of dollars to stay onsite at their hotels, plan in advance, and make ticket purchases in advance should not have more perks than the guests that stay offsite and divide their time between all the Orlando area attractions. I mean, why do airlines and hotels have frequent flier programs and hotel cards if not to recognize those that spend the most money? As it stands now, you could spend a fortune on accommodations at Disney, and still be locked out of the individual lightning lane rides at 7am, I know we were on the phones at 7am, and still could not get on Rise of the Resistance. I brought up an available time, and when we went to confirm and pay, it was gone. With fastpass plus, you could book a max of 3 rides in advance, and conveniently schedule them around dining reservations and actually ENJOY your time at the parks without having to stare at the screen of your phone all day. It's not DVCs fault that the people running the parks seem to have no idea how to actually encourage repeat tourism and customer brand lotalty.

won’t the people who show up the day of and buy park tickets still miss out with Genie+? The popular attractions are still “selling out” at 7am. With the cost of a Disney vacay I struggle to think people don’t plan at least a little? Were that many people just showing up day of? And don’t park reservations create the same issue?

We had to speak with CM’s a couple of times regarding issues with Genie+ and both times the CM’s mentioned how much of a disaster Genie+ is. We are “young” and have only ever experienced Disney with FP+. With 2 small kids it was part of what sold us on the whole Disney experience. Disney use to be our “easy” vacation. We didn’t have to worry about car seats and we could lock in our favorite attractions and plan around nap time or rest time. Now our trips feel like gambling. We wake up every day at 7am hoping the app works and we can get the rides/times we want. Then we set alarms and keep checking the app all day. We know things change… we are hopeful we’ll find a way to make the new system work for us. Fortunately we’ve experienced all of the attractions so missing out on one trip isn’t the end of the world. But we really struggle to see how this “new Disney” is going to create loyal customers… perspective I guess… if you didn’t experience the old way then I guess you don’t know what is missing.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

I'm just curious, do a lot of people tend to show up and buy tickets the day of to get into a park? I thought that practice might have lessened with park reservations being required. But I really don't know - haven't bought a ticket to get into a Disney park 'day-of' since they sold the lettered ticket books!

 

[jo-jo]

I just had best trip 12/26-1/1/22 .
No problems with Genie I just took the grandkids , and their mom (super tech nerd) was home booking all our Genie for us.
I guess that is the solution “Genie”stays home and g-kids love having phones in their hands non- stop to get alerts from GeniusMom…
Try it It works haha

If it's not against any DIS rules, can you explain how that was done?

Back in the "good old days" , I really enjoyed knowing we could take our time getting ready and still have rides ready to go at 11,12, 1. And if we decided. it's pouring rain, let's cancel the FP and see what's open at MK instead of AK.

But the best was , DD would sign into our account , set up FPs and send text message. Buzz lightyear at 1:40. HM at 3:20.

Having Genie plus really throws me into a panic. Take me longer to order a pizza on a phone than it takes to bake it.

 

[wishicouldgomoreofte]

. But they also have tip boards all over the parks with the wait times as well.

I don't think they do anymore. At least not in Sept, when I was there.
The days of updating those is several years past. And I think there was really only one in MK, EPCOT, & HS. I don't think there was one in AK. That was old technology--radios, and wait time tags on guests.

 

[Miffy]

Here's what a Guest Services CM told me after an abysmal day with Genie plus...(which they refunded as we were only able to get on two rides) they said they evened the field because people that bought their park ticket the day of their visit were locked out of FP+.

I don't understand why Disney suddenly thinks guests that spend thousands of dollars to stay onsite at their hotels, plan in advance, and make ticket purchases in advance should not have more perks than the guests that stay offsite and divide their time between all the Orlando area attractions. I mean, why do airlines and hotels have frequent flier programs and hotel cards if not to recognize those that spend the most money? As it stands now, you could spend a fortune on accommodations at Disney, and still be locked out of the individual lightning lane rides at 7am, I know we were on the phones at 7am, and still could not get on Rise of the Resistance. I brought up an available time, and when we went to confirm and pay, it was gone. With fastpass plus, you could book a max of 3 rides in advance, and conveniently schedule them around dining reservations and actually ENJOY your time at the parks without having to stare at the screen of your phone all day. It's not DVCs fault that the people running the parks seem to have no idea how to actually encourage repeat tourism and customer brand loyalty.

First of all, I completely agree with your second paragraph.

But, besides that, people who buy their park ticket the day of their visit are still often locked out of G+ and ILL$, if they even know about them and how they work. This is basically an invented reason. The reason they started G+ and ILL$ is to make money. Period. And, for the record, I often got top-tier FP+s the day of, in the park, using the refresh method. Additionally, how is charging extra for something evening the playing field? It doesn't help the parkgoers who can't afford it in addition to the ticket price, parking, and food.

Also, you got two whole rides out of G+? That's more than we sometimes got on our recent December trip. We felt lucky to have gotten one on those days. But we're not people who stay in the parks from open to close, which seems to be the type of parkgoer G+ favors.

So the playing field is still not even. If they really wanted to even the playing field, they'd eliminate all LLs and go back to standby for everyone. Then only the people who got there first would have an advantage, which, it could be argued, is still an advantage.

The most fair system, besides standby-only, I ever saw at WDW was the boarding group "lottery" for RotR, and yet lots of posters here on the DIS thought that system was unfair. But everyone who had a smartphone had an equal chance of snagging a BG when they went on sale.

 

[zavandor]

If the choices are:

1. Wake up at 7am on vacation to reach the park at open and begin to make ride reservations (legacy FP)
2. Wake up at 7am on vacation to begin making reservations on my phone (Genie+)
3. Wake up at 7am 1-2 months before my vacation begins to make reservations from home, at times of my choosing (FP+)

....I'd take #3 every single time.

Agree with what Chuck said above. Somebody is always going to "lose" along the way. I can't feel sympathy for day guests when they choose to stay off site and not plan in advance.

If the operational changes we see moving from FP+ to Genie+ are truly designed to improve the experience of day guests at the expense of Disney hotel guests and repeat visitors, I think Disney is in for a rude awakening.

Easywdw used to do park touring strategies with FP+ booked the evening before. It's not like that if one missed the 60 days window one couldn't do anything. Clueless people will be clueless, regardless. Like people who now arrive at the Studios 1 hour after opening, enter a 2,5 hours line for RotR and at 11 buy G+ hoping to skip lines and end up booking Mappets. How do you level the playing field for people like that?
I'm a bit upset that FP are now paid for, however if they bring back FP+ as they were with a reasonable daily fee, I'd happily pay for it. The current version of G+ and ILL is just a mad attempt to squeeze money out of people with no regard to guest experience.

 

[Chuck S]

however if they bring back FP+ as they were with a reasonable daily fee, I'd happily pay for it.

Yep, they should have just started a reasonable fee for it. It would be better than Genie+. Maybe even a sliding fee based upon whether you are onsite, AP holder or offsite day guest with no further commitment to Disney other than your park ticket.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

How do you level the playing field for people like that?

I agree. It's like the "everyone gets a trophy" mindset. At some point guests have to take initiative for their own park experience, which can be achieved by simply doing a little research. For example, we have friends who visited WDW this year for the first time in over 8 years. My friend's wife did a good amount of research to understand the processes that are in place and, more importantly, tips to navigate those processes in order to have the best experience possible. Because of that, they were ready and confident...they used their knowledge to have great days at HS and MK. Compare that to a family who just shows up without doing research. Why should Disney be trying to level the playing field for both those families? Why shouldn't the family that did their research have an "advantage"? I mean, it's no secret that WDW takes planning. Anyone going knows that. So if someone chooses to not put the time in to prepare, then they won't be getting the most out of their day. Seems reasonable.