This tipping thing is really out of hand

[sam_gordon]

^
THIS. I have no idea why this concept is so difficult for people to understand. This exact thing happened to me several times when I worked at Planet Hollywood in my '20's. Plus, you're taxed on money that you didn't even make.

Honestly, everyone complaining about tipping should really go work a couple if shifts in a restaurant, and then you might possibly change your tune, because I guarantee you that those complaining have never waited a table before.

If you make employers pay more to waitstaff, then the waitstaff won't be "taxed on money they didn't make". I don't understand why that's so difficult to understand.

To me, tips should be a BONUS for doing more than the minimum needed to keep a job. Should good work be rewarded? Absolutely. But there shouldn't be the pressure/expectation to tip for doing just the minimum.

 

[ronandannette]

There's a couple of problems with your scenario...
1) I don't think anyone is saying do away with tipping. I think most of us want to do away with EXPECTED tipping. If you pay a wait staff minimum wage, maybe a "great" tip will be 5%.
2) Do you get tips (in your current job)? If not, does that mean YOU only work "as hard as it takes to not be fired and that's it"? You must, because as I read your post, the only incentive to do a good job is to get tips.
3) DW & I recently went on a cruise. The minimum "tips" were charged before we ever got on the boat (so call it a "service fee"... the employees knew the money was already collected). With two exceptions (out of all the employees we ran into), the service was WONDERFUL.
4) Currently, even if service is TERRIBLE, many people expect you to still tip 15%. You're a cheapskate if you leave any less. So tell me how this is an incentive to do well.

That it has evolved to this is what I particularly resent...no matter what dumb thing a server does if I don't tip lavishly I'm a jerk? Rationalize it any way you want - waitstaff (and bellmen and baggage handlers and taxi drivers and delivery people and chamber maids and the list goes on) have entrenched a sense of entitlement that's irksome. And for those that will retort that I don't understand because I've never waited tables - you're right; I haven't. I make a living doing something much more complex and demanding with far higher stakes for the end-user (customer if you will). Let's stop pretending that taking food and beverage orders and delivering plates should have it's own Nobel prize category...sheesh.

 

[Granny square]

Geez. So glad you have singlehandedly saved the world. Hope your salary wasn't based on cheap people's opinion of your talents. Carrying dishes? No biggie. Dealing with rude condescending people big deal. Dealing with rude people and subpar pay. Big deal. Dealing with entitled people who think they are above the working masses. Totally big deal.

People are paid by the consumer one way or another. We as a country choose for waitstaff's pay to come directly rather than through the employer. Any way you look at it they are going to get paid.

Waited tables in college and my son's have also. Waited til after college to rise above

 

[BuddyThomas]

That it has evolved to this is what I particularly resent...no matter what dumb thing a server does if I don't tip lavishly I'm a jerk? Rationalize it any way you want - waitstaff (and bellmen and baggage handlers and taxi drivers and delivery people and chamber maids and the list goes on) have entrenched a sense of entitlement that's irksome. And for those that will retort that I don't understand because I've never waited tables - you're right; I haven't. I make a living doing something much more complex and demanding with far higher stakes for the end-user (customer if you will). Let's stop pretending that taking food and beverage orders and delivering plates should have it's own Nobel prize category...sheesh.

So glad I never had to wait on you.

 

[ronandannette]

Geez. So glad you have singlehandedly saved the world. Hope your salary wasn't based on cheap people's opinion of your talents. Carrying dishes? No biggie. Dealing with rude condescending people big deal. Dealing with rude people and subpar pay. Big deal. Dealing with entitled people who think they are above the working masses. Totally big deal.

People are paid by the consumer one way or another. We as a country choose for waitstaff's pay to come directly rather than through the employer. Any way you look at it they are going to get paid.

Waited tables in college and my son's have also. Waited til after college to rise above

Don't be rediculous; I am certainly part of the "working masses" (there are a lot of other jobs besides waiting tables that don't include reversing climate change or curing cancer). My salary is the rate I agreed on when I took the job - period. And yes, the role involves meeting the needs of emotional, sometimes unreasonable and often ungracious people; all of which I knew going in. I don't expect for one second that they'll moderate their behaviour based on how much (or little as the case may be) I am paid by my employer. It's totally not their problem. And I guess each of us makes our own decisions about what we are willing to put up with for "sub-par" pay including the waiters/waitresses of the world.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Don't be rediculous; I am certainly part of the "working masses" (there are a lot of other jobs besides waiting tables that don't include reversing climate change or curing cancer). My salary is the rate I agreed on when I took the job - period.

Great. In forty of the United States, servers' wages are legally about 1/3 the minimum wage plus tips. That's the pay they have to agree to when taking the job.

 

[Srbright]

Don't be rediculous; I am certainly part of the "working masses" (there are a lot of other jobs besides waiting tables that don't include reversing climate change or curing cancer). My salary is the rate I agreed on when I took the job - period. And yes, the role involves meeting the needs of emotional, sometimes unreasonable and often ungracious people; all of which I knew going in. I don't expect for one second that they'll moderate their behaviour based on how much (or little as the case may be) I am paid by my employer.

Especially when you consider places like Disney. They still have to get paid the $2.16/hr but they work at restaurants that are priced 30-40% higher than a main stream place. Just because my cocktail at Disney costs $14 means that "society" believes that I should pay a $2.10 tip. However it took them the same amount of work to bring that as it did to bring a glass of water to the table next to me that they didn't charge a dime on.

Because the food is at a premium and therefore the tip is at a premium then I expect premium service, not just "okay" or "not horrible". Our dinner at the California Grill was $250 for four. His tip was $40. The guy had a minimum of 5 other tables so on a two hour turn over he was making $120 per hour. Even if he had to give 70% back to the bartender and bus boys, he is still making $36 per hour. Even if he only works 30 hrs a week he's pulling in $55k per year. To put it in perspective I didn't make that until I had a graduate degree.

That being said we GOT excellent service and I had no problem paying for it. But if you got what you perceived to be bad service and want to leave a 5% tip, at least have the courage to speak to the manager about it. I think there are very few cases where the service is bad enough to warrant it costing someone money to serve you.

Stacy

 

[Srbright]

Great. In forty of the United States, servers' wages are legally about 1/3 the minimum wage plus tips. That's the pay they have to agree to when taking the job.

Yep. That's it.

 

[mrorke]

My husband miscounted when paying a food tab and ended up leaving a minimal tip. The waiter actually ran after us in the parking lot to ask where the tip was. We were mortified that we hadn't left a proper tip but I was shocked to have had someone run after us like that.

 

[ronandannette]

My husband miscounted when paying a food tab and ended up leaving a minimal tip. The waiter actually ran after us in the parking lot to ask where the tip was. We were mortified that we hadn't left a proper tip but I was shocked to have had someone run after us like that.

What did you say to him? Did you tip him more or less than 20% after he embarrassed you? Just guessing (and I'm not critical of whatever you did) but I'll bet you upped the tip and apologized. His actions are kind of what I was referring to as a sense of entitlement.

 

[sam_gordon]

But, that is how waiters get paid. When your employer (and they are working for us), short-changes you, do you not question them and expect to be compensated for your work (if you even have a job, that is)?

Apples & Oranges. I have an agreement with my employer to be paid $x for y amount of work. There is no agreement between waitstaff and a customer. Waitstaff are not GUARANTEED a tip. End of story.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Apples & Oranges. I have an agreement with my employer to be paid $x for y amount of work. There is no agreement between waitstaff and a customer. Waitstaff are not GUARANTEED a tip. End of story.

Your choice, but if you don't tip appropriately, I would suggest that you never show your face in that particular restaurant again. Waiters never forget a stiffer, and have been known to take revenge in ways you don't even want to know about.........but if you do, there is an extremely entertaining book out called Waiter Rant. I don't recall who wrote it but it should be required reading for anyone who dines out.

 

[Scornelius]

Our dinner at the California Grill was $250 for four. His tip was $40. The guy had a minimum of 5 other tables so on a two hour turn over he was making $120 per hour. Even if he had to give 70% back to the bartender and bus boys, he is still making $36 per hour. Even if he only works 30 hrs a week he's pulling in $55k per year. To put it in perspective I didn't make that until I had a graduate degree.
Stacy

Were you in, out, and table cleared in an hour? Were all those other tables? I doubt it. People keep talking about this ridiculous per hour rate, but you're basing it on incredibly fast turnover and constant, full-shift capacity. That's not realistic.

ETA: I reread and saw your calculation was on 2 hours. My apologies. I still think it's not realistic math to apply on the grand scale.

 

[sam_gordon]

Your choice, but if you don't tip appropriately, I would suggest that you never show your face in that particular restaurant again. Waiters never forget a stiffer, and have been known to take revenge in ways you don't even want to know about.........but if you do, there is an extremely entertaining book out called Waiter Rant. I don't recall who wrote it but it should be required reading for anyone who dines out.

You have no idea what I tip or even if I do. But the first two words sum it up... it's the GUESTS choice whether to tip or not. Tips are NOT required (no matter what people say).

Personally, if I find out someone intentionally did something to my food (whether I "stiffed" them or not), the manager & corporate would be getting an earful.

Presumably the waitstaff CHOSE to do take the job, KNOWING they will face people who don't tip well. So man up, and do your job to the best of your ability. It will suck sometimes and be beneficial other times... like 95%+ of other jobs out there.

 

[maxiesmom]

You have no idea what I tip or even if I do. But the first two words sum it up... it's the GUESTS choice whether to tip or not. Tips are NOT required (no matter what people say).

Personally, if I find out someone intentionally did something to my food (whether I "stiffed" them or not), the manager & corporate would be getting an earful.

Presumably the waitstaff CHOSE to do take the job, KNOWING they will face people who don't tip well. So man up, and do your job to the best of your ability. It will suck sometimes and be beneficial other times... like 95%+ of other jobs out there.

I'm thinking the man up should happen on your part. You know people depend on tips as part of their pay, yet you choose to ignore that.

And as far as doing your job without getting paid, I'm thinking that doesn't happen at the majority of hourly jobs. So it is pretty ridiculous to expect someone to work as hard without being paid, because you have decided you don't wish to pay them. Would you hire a lawn service and expect them to show up, yet only pay them 66% of their wage?

I would think too that if you are constantly stiffing wait staff, management wouldn't be too sorry to see that last of you. Management really doesn't like having unhappy employees.

 

[sam_gordon]

I'm thinking the man up should happen on your part. You know people depend on tips as part of their pay, yet you choose to ignore that.

Assume much?

And as far as doing your job without getting paid, I'm thinking that doesn't happen at the majority of hourly jobs. So it is pretty ridiculous to expect someone to work as hard without being paid, because you have decided you don't wish to pay them.

If a person agrees to take a sales job on commission, but doesn't sell anything, should they get paid? If they don't do the job well, they should complain to their bosses if they don't get paid?

I would think too that if you are constantly stiffing wait staff, management wouldn't be too sorry to see that last of you.

Who said anything about "constantly"? The PP implied if you "stiff" waitstaff once, they'll "take revenge".

 

[BuddyThomas]

Sam ya just don't get it. It's like talking to a brick wall. I give up and wish you well on all your future opportunities to stiff someone. I hope it makes you feel empowered.

 

[sam_gordon]

Sam ya just don't get it. It's like talking to a brick wall. I give up and wish you well on all your future opportunities to stiff someone. I hope it makes you feel empowered.

You think I don't get it? What's to get?

It is "proper" to tip 15-20% when you go to a restaurant. I get that. I never said I didn't do that, either. You (and maxiesmom) assumed I don't.

BUT, I also believe the sense of entitlement for that 15-20% is ridiculous. YOU (general) willingly took the job that pays less than half of minimum wage. Presumably, you did that because you figured you would make up the difference in tips. You do that because of people who tip normally and those who tip extremely well. However, part of accepting that is also accepting there will be people who DON'T tip well (if they do at all). Does it suck? Sure. Is it bad to not get paid for doing your job? Of course. However, YOU (again, general) chose the job.

As far as assuming I (and presumably others) who are "anti-tipping" don't tip when we go out, you know what they say about assuming...

 

[Granny square]

You have no idea what I tip or even if I do. But the first two words sum it up... it's the GUESTS choice whether to tip or not. Tips are NOT required (no matter what people say).

Personally, if I find out someone intentionally did something to my food (whether I "stiffed" them or not), the manager & corporate would be getting an earful.

Presumably the waitstaff CHOSE to do take the job, KNOWING they will face people who don't tip well. So man up, and do your job to the best of your ability. It will suck sometimes and be beneficial other times... like 95%+ of other jobs out there.

Or they chose the job thinking people are reasonable and "get" the system.

If your boss chose not to pay you one day because they were short on cash or think your salary to high i suspect you'd be a bit more empathic.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

I'm thinking the man up should happen on your part. You know people depend on tips as part of their pay, yet you choose to ignore that.

And as far as doing your job without getting paid, I'm thinking that doesn't happen at the majority of hourly jobs. So it is pretty ridiculous to expect someone to work as hard without being paid, because you have decided you don't wish to pay them. Would you hire a lawn service and expect them to show up, yet only pay them 66% of their wage?

I would think too that if you are constantly stiffing wait staff, management wouldn't be too sorry to see that last of you. Management really doesn't like having unhappy employees.

To be fair, though, I bet that they hate getting shut down by the health department even more. And I bet they aren't a fan of word getting out that they have a waiter or waiters who are doing disgusting things to the food. Not to mention the fact that tampering with food is a federal offense...