This tipping thing is really out of hand

[Srbright]

Were you in, out, and table cleared in an hour? Were all those other tables? I doubt it. People keep talking about this ridiculous per hour rate, but you're basing it on incredibly fast turnover and constant, full-shift capacity. That's not realistic.

ETA: I reread and saw your calculation was on 2 hours. My apologies. I still think it's not realistic math to apply on the grand scale.

I am an accountant. Math is the only thing that gets applied on a grand scale.

Stacy

 

[U2_rocks!]

I am so torn on this tipping thing. On the one hand I understand the system as it is right now, and if you don't follow it the people who are most hurt are the poor servers who sometimes have to pay taxes on tips they didn't earn! On the other hand, I am not a big fan of a system that would potentially disadvantage an employee like that. I am not a fan of having to inflate every menu price to try to work out what something is really going to cost by the time tax and gratuity are added - then again, maybe I just don't eat out often enough, I don't have it down to a science like some people might.

I think I would prefer the tipping to scale back down to 10% and have the base wages increased to suit - that way servers aren't hit quite so hard when they are stiffed or when times are slow, and they have a slightly higher guaranteed salary. I'm not sure how tipping levels climbed as high as they are now - I guess salaries didn't keep up with the rising cost of living over the years and tips have had to increase in order to make up the difference?

 

[Srbright]

You think I don't get it? What's to get?

It is "proper" to tip 15-20% when you go to a restaurant. I get that. I never said I didn't do that, either.

And a couple things I'd like to point out

1) 15-20% isn't the norm everywhere in America. When I was growing up (and still) the restaurants where my parents live suggest 10%. Most of the tipped people make minimum wage. I know because I worked in a tipped position but made minimum wage.

2) The 300 million Americans only make up 5% of the worlds population.

As the US, and especially tourist locations, see a higher influx of immigrants or visitors from places where tipping ISN'T a standard practice this debate will get even more heated.

Stacy

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

I'm thinking the man up should happen on your part. You know people depend on tips as part of their pay, yet you choose to ignore that.

And as far as doing your job without getting paid, I'm thinking that doesn't happen at the majority of hourly jobs. So it is pretty ridiculous to expect someone to work as hard without being paid, because you have decided you don't wish to pay them. Would you hire a lawn service and expect them to show up, yet only pay them 66% of their wage?

I would think too that if you are constantly stiffing wait staff, management wouldn't be too sorry to see that last of you. Management really doesn't like having unhappy employees.

Would I pay a lawn service just for showing up? Absolutely not! Wouldn't it be nice if we could all get paid for just showing up. It's called work because you have to do more than just show up. If they showed up and mowed my entire lawn, then yes, they would get paid if full. If they showed up and mowed half my lawn, you think they should get paid in full? Even though they didn't do all the work. It's the same way I feel about wait staff - do your job (your entire job) and I'll tip well. But showing up and then ignoring us, is not doing your job.

And before you rush to judgment about how I am as a tipper, I don't think I've ever tipped less than 15%, and it's almost always closer to 20%

 

[BuddyThomas]

For whatever it is worth, I am sitting in a restaurant in NYC, Times Square, right now and on the bottom of the menu is the following statement:

"15% gratuity will be added to all parties after 8:30 PM."

This is in the heart of Times Square and I am currently surrounded by tourists having a pre-theatre dinner. I can only assume that all the tourists were doing so much stiffing that management could not keep a wait staff.

I would post a pic of the menu with this phrase but I can't figure out how to do it.

 

[Srbright]

I am so torn on this tipping thing. On the one hand I understand the system as it is right now, and if you don't follow it the people who are most hurt are the poor servers who sometimes have to pay taxes on tips they didn't earn!

And this is patently false.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2013/02/28/sorting-fact-from-fiction-on-taxing-tips/

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc761.html

Employers have to report 8% of sales as wages for tipped positions. This assumes that one out of every two tables doesn't tip. Also, when the servers keep records (which they should do under the IRS rules) then they pay on what they received whether it is higher or lower than that 8%.

And any server that is being forced to split tips they didn't get needs to be reporting those managers to law enforcement for extortion.

ETA: http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/extortion

Stacy

 

[U2_rocks!]

And this is patently false.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2013/02/28/sorting-fact-from-fiction-on-taxing-tips/

http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc761.html

Employers have to report 8% of sales as wages for tipped positions. This assumes that one out of every two tables doesn't tip. Also, when the servers keep records (which they should do under the IRS rules) then they pay on what they received whether it is higher or lower than that 8%.

And any server that is being forced to split tips they didn't get needs to be reporting those managers to law enforcement for extortion.

ETA: http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/extortion

Stacy

Why do people always talk about this aspect of tipping then, as though it's so unfair to the servers when people don't tip enough?

 

[Srbright]

Why do people always talk about this aspect of tipping then, as though it's so unfair to the servers when people don't tip enough?

That I don't know. Its the same as using your personal car for work and claiming the mileage. The IRS requires that you keep a log book. Simply because they chose not to is not a reason to complain about people that don't tip. Servers are only taxed on what they actually make, not some random IRS generated number.
Unless, of course, they don't have a log book, perhaps because they don't claim all of their tips. Then they ARE charged on a random IRS number.

Stacy

 

[disney1990]

Your choice, but if you don't tip appropriately, I would suggest that you never show your face in that particular restaurant again. Waiters never forget a stiffer, and have been known to take revenge in ways you don't even want to know about.........but if you do, there is an extremely entertaining book out called Waiter Rant. I don't recall who wrote it but it should be required reading for anyone who dines out.

Absolutely true.

I think this horse has been killed. Either you get it, or you don't.

However, if you frequent a restaurant and repeatedly don't tip appropriately, I personally would never take a bite of the food you are served.

Try going to stainedapron.com to learn what you might actually be eating. Or google servers revenge. And Good Luck!

 

[Srbright]

Absolutely true.

I think this horse has been killed. Either you get it, or you don't.

However, if you frequent a restaurant and repeatedly don't tip appropriately, I personally would never take a bite of the food you are served.

Try going to stainedapron.com to learn what you might actually eating. And Good Luck!

Why do people stoop to doing something illegal (not to mention gross) when people are being law abiding citizens? If I find that you have contaminated my food in anyway then I will press charges.

Stacy

 

[disney1990]

Why do people stoop to doing something illegal (not to mention gross) when people are being law abiding citizens? If I find that you have contaminated my food in anyway then I will press charges.

Stacy

I am not a server and have never been. However, all I can say is, you will never know.

 

[sam_gordon]

All I have to say Sam is that you wouldn't last 30 minutes in a strip joint. Those bouncers would have your stingy butt laying out back by the lard cans in no time.

Please answer me this...

Why do you feel the need to insult me?

For anyone...
Why is it those of us "against" tipping "just don't get it", "are cheap (or stingy)", "don't understand what it's like being waitstaff", etc? I'm willing to wager a dole whip 99% of those "against" tipping still tip, and probably do generously (~20%). Just because we are against it (or want it to change) doesn't mean we don't do it.

Just to stir the pot a little more ...
Is it the job/duties that necessitate the tip? At my local Fazolis, you order at the counter, get your own drink & silverware, but the food is delivered to your table, and you don't clean up the table. Does that require a tip?

OR

Is it the base pay? If waitstaff were paid $15/hour instead of $2 and change, would you still tip?

 

[BuddyThomas]

Please answer me this...

Why do you feel the need to insult me?

For anyone...
Why is it those of us "against" tipping "just don't get it", "are cheap (or stingy)", "don't understand what it's like being waitstaff", etc? I'm willing to wager a dole whip 99% of those "against" tipping still tip, and probably do generously (~20%). Just because we are against it (or want it to change) doesn't mean we don't do it.

Just to stir the pot a little more ...
Is it the job/duties that necessitate the tip? At my local Fazolis, you order at the counter, get your own drink & silverware, but the food is delivered to your table, and you don't clean up the table. Does that require a tip?

OR

Is it the base pay? If waitstaff were paid $15/hour instead of $2 and change, would you still tip?

Oh dear God.

 

[disney1990]

If I offend you well my apologizes.

I am so baffled at all the who to tip and what to tip that my head may explode.

So I tip you if you work for the company doing the job but I don't tip if you own the company.

I don't tip repairmen but tip movers.

I tip waitstaff but not the kid who brings out my food at fast food.

I tip the barber at the chain hair cut place but not the one who owns the shop

I don't tip the mail man or garbage man

Enough already how about this we let businesses pay there employees and let the employees decide if that's enough for them to work. Even better is its a state to state thing on how people are paid.


Rant over/

Not only that, but this thread is also "out of hand".

 

[BuddyThomas]

It will probably be closed down soon, although I think it is an interesting discussion.

 

[Luv'sTink]

Please answer me this...

Why do you feel the need to insult me?

For anyone...
Why is it those of us "against" tipping "just don't get it", "are cheap (or stingy)", "don't understand what it's like being waitstaff", etc? I'm willing to wager a dole whip 99% of those "against" tipping still tip, and probably do generously (~20%). Just because we are against it (or want it to change) doesn't mean we don't do it.

Just to stir the pot a little more ...
Is it the job/duties that necessitate the tip? At my local Fazolis, you order at the counter, get your own drink & silverware, but the food is delivered to your table, and you don't clean up the table. Does that require a tip?

OR

Is it the base pay? If waitstaff were paid $15/hour instead of $2 and change, would you still tip?

In WA State EVERYONE is paid minimum wage period, no matter the job. So when you take that into consideration, servers here can and do make a hefty salary. Not every single one, but the majority, depending on where they work, of course. Now there is a push here to raise the minimum wage from $10 to $15 an hour. Doesn't matter how much people are paid most still want more.

Edited to add...Minimum wage goes up if the cost of living goes up in this State, but does not go down if cost of living goes down, obviously. When the cost of living drops and then goes back up they get the raise based on the amount it went up without regard to it having dropped.

 

[ronandannette]

Please answer me this...

Why do you feel the need to insult me?

For anyone...
Why is it those of us "against" tipping "just don't get it", "are cheap (or stingy)", "don't understand what it's like being waitstaff", etc? I'm willing to wager a dole whip 99% of those "against" tipping still tip, and probably do generously (~20%). Just because we are against it (or want it to change) doesn't mean we don't do it.

Just to stir the pot a little more ...
Is it the job/duties that necessitate the tip? At my local Fazolis, you order at the counter, get your own drink & silverware, but the food is delivered to your table, and you don't clean up the table. Does that require a tip?

OR

Is it the base pay? If waitstaff were paid $15/hour instead of $2 and change, would you still tip?

You would if you live in Canada. While perhaps not quite $15, mimimum wage ranges provincially from $9.75 to $11.00 ($8.90 for liquor servers in one province only). Yes our restaurant meals are more expensive (much more in certain chains that also exist in the US) and yes, a 15% - 20% tip is still expected because as we have both mentioned, there is a SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT based on the nature of the job. BuddyThomas and any other server participating here; how much would you need to make per hour before you would stop assuming the customers should "top-up"? (Sincere question - and I am genuinely interested in the answer.)

And Sam, as you may have noticed, I agree with every point you've made including calling Phoebus out for the unnecessary insults.

 

[goofyintoronto]

You would if you live in Canada. While perhaps not quite $15, mimimum wage ranges provincially from $9.75 to $11.00 ($8.90 for liquor servers in one province only). Yes our restaurant meals are more expensive (much more in certain chains that also exist in the US) and yes, a 15% - 20% tip is still expected because as we have both mentioned, there is a SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT based on the nature of the job. BuddyThomas and any other server participating here; how much would you need to make per hour before you would stop assuming the customers should "top-up"? (Sincere question - and I am genuinely interested in the answer.)

And Sam, as you may have noticed, I agree with every point you've made including calling Phoebus out for the unnecessary insults.

Servers and bartenders in Canada definitely get LESS than minimum wage because of the tips they get (most of the time! ). I was a part time server about 4 yrs ago and the wage per hour was about $7! Sad!! Lol.

 

[ronandannette]

Servers and bartenders in Canada definitely get LESS than minimum wage because of the tips they get (most of the time! ). I was a part time server about 4 yrs ago and the wage per hour was about $7! Sad!! Lol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_Canada

 

[Luv'sTink]

I wanted to add; Anyone who would do something to someones food for not tipping is not only immature, they are disgusting and have some real issues for feeling they are owed something that is a gift, not an entitlement. And anyone who condones it, is just as bad.