This is just so sad,,and makes me ask WHY would someone do this?? I don't call it 'playing'??

[soccerdad72]

I don't know if Lane's parents asked for a fence. I got the feeling at the time that was Disney's solution at the time. Which is my point, Disney made a change without being prompted and RCCL is twiddling their thumbs. IIRC, the parents of Chloe didn't make any suggestions until their interview which was a full two weeks after death.

Still begs the question, though - what do you think RCCL should have done in the days following this accident?

 

[robinb]

Lane's parents were not also being spoken for by a shady lawyer blaming Disney 100%, nor were the parents themselves giving interviews on national television blaming Disney "100 percent." The recognized the absolute freak accident/1 in a million situation that they encountered and also accepted their part in the situation gracefully, and decided to honor their son in a meaningful way rather than seek a payday. Disney DID give them money. There WAS a settlement, which means there WAS a lawsuit. However, it was probably done as a matter of standard practice when anyone dies accidentally on Disney property. From what I understand, the entirety of the settlement was used to start the foundation in Lane's honor. I don't even know what his parents look like, because they didn't choose to pimp themselves out in the wake of their tragedy.

If Disney had done nothing for Lane's parents after the accident other than "thoughts and prayers" or if they made no changes to help prevent another freak accident, I believe that Lane's parents may have also hired a shark of a lawyer and gone on a TV interview after two weeks of a whole lot of nothing from Disney. Bottom line, Disney handled things differently from the very beginning and the family of Lance was able to act gracefully instead of finding themselves in an adversarial relationship with Disney.

 

[Hikergirl]

Yes, but putting up a fence where there wasn't one is common sense and low hanging fruit, so to speak. There was already a railing in this case. I really do not think the scenario that occurred is common or one that most people would do. We cannot put up signs or barriers for everything in life. There was already a barrier up, one that was ignored. Should there be a barrier to the barrier? Where does it stop?

Exactly! Also the risk was visable, there was an open window at face height of the GF.
He put her up on that railing for whatever reason, he ignored the barrier and neglected to see the open window (which I will always be baffled by).
I think they could put up a sign that says "windows open" however this tragedy already was caused by someone ignoring the railing and the open window, and apparently the written guest conduct policy. Putting up a sign would just as likely be ignored.

 

[Dznypal]

as a PP said a few postings up about RCL safe behavior

it does say about about not sitting standing .... on railings--so where do the parents get the idea its the ships fault

who put the little girl up there--she didnt get there by herself--GF did--so GF didnt follow the written policy on safe behavor

and as its been said before its not in the dining rooms its on the pool deck with fast food offerings

tables and chairs--I have never been on a cruise where the windows opened in the main dining room

just wonder if any of their rooms where balcony rooms

 

[robinb]

Still begs the question, though - what do you think RCCL should have done in the days following this accident?

Honestly, I'm not sure what would be the best solution. That's what Richard Fain of RCCL gets paid a million dollars a month for.

 

[lifesavacation]

If Disney had done nothing for Lane's parents after the accident other than "thoughts and prayers" or if they made no changes to help prevent another freak accident, I believe that Lane's parents may have also hired a shark of a lawyer and gone on a TV interview after two weeks of a whole lot of nothing from Disney. Bottom line, Disney handled things differently from the very beginning and the family of Lance was able to act gracefully instead of finding themselves in an adversarial relationship with Disney.

I think that the ongoing criminal investigation into the accident does make this 2 week period a little different. RCL may be waiting until it is completed before deciding their response.

ETA: Did Lane's parents refuse to give statements? The San Juan police have not been able to get statements from Chloe's family yet. This would undoubtedly make a difference in how RCL responds in the immediate post-accident period.

 

[kidshop]

I would venture to say that at one of the reasons why Lane's parents did not sue Disney is the way Disney responded to the accident. Disney responded to the possible danger immediately and put up a fence at the GF the very next day. That immediate response was to prevent another accident that is so rare that only 8 people have died from an alligator attack in the US in the past 10 years. They saw a very remote danger and followed through on a solution. RCCL is giving the family of the little girl the corporate equivalent to "thoughts and prayers".

Cruise ships have balcony staterooms and open railings all over, the window area is more safe than other places on deck. Unless you mean for them to prevent any open access to passengers, in which case you are cruising in a closed box with no fresh air. I don’t think people want to cruise like that. This possible danger needs to managed personally like the rest of life.

No one needs to get in the water at wdw. That is easy to fence off to prevent access. People go on cruises to feel and see the fresh air. You are not going over the side unless you do something stupid. I’m sorry but that is reality.

 

[msjprincess]

The railing is there as a barrier. Why else would it be there? It's not decorative. It's never all right to put a toddler on a railing. Especially "letting go" on a railing. I have no idea what they mean by letting go but like it's been said over and over, even if the window wasn't open she could have fallen and hit her head if he let go for a split second.

 

[gwynne]

If Disney had done nothing for Lane's parents after the accident other than "thoughts and prayers" or if they made no changes to help prevent another freak accident, I believe that Lane's parents may have also hired a shark of a lawyer and gone on a TV interview after two weeks of a whole lot of nothing from Disney. Bottom line, Disney handled things differently from the very beginning and the family of Lance was able to act gracefully instead of finding themselves in an adversarial relationship with Disney.

JMO- Oh my, I think the above is making a big assumption. People can be very different.

If you read the entire "About Us" for the Lane Thomas Foundation, you will get a better idea of why they chose to follow the path that they have. They appreciated the outpouring of community support and kindness that was shown to them. And they choose to pass on that support and kindness to other families as they navigate through the difficult transplant process with a child.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't know if Lane's parents asked for a fence. I got the feeling at the time that was Disney's solution at the time. Which is my point, Disney made a change without being prompted and RCCL is twiddling their thumbs. IIRC, the parents of Chloe didn't make any suggestions until their interview which was a full two weeks after death.

I'm someone who doesn't quite agree with the comparisons being drawn with the gator incident and this incident which is purely my opinion. To me the only similarity is both ended tragically with the death of a child. I'm not discounting your opinion at all just sharing my own.

And because I don't see them as similar aside from that the discussion as to what Disney immediately did just isn't the same reaction I would expect from what happened here on the cruise ship. But again purely my opinion.

 

[fly girl]

If Disney had done nothing for Lane's parents after the accident other than "thoughts and prayers" or if they made no changes to help prevent another freak accident, I believe that Lane's parents may have also hired a shark of a lawyer and gone on a TV interview after two weeks of a whole lot of nothing from Disney. Bottom line, Disney handled things differently from the very beginning and the family of Lance was able to act gracefully instead of finding themselves in an adversarial relationship with Disney.

Maybe in the beginning RCCL was aiding them and trying to help. We don't know. But they gave them no time to help, they hired the shark lawyer the next day. And I don't believe there is any video of the WDW event like there is with RCCL. I bet RCCL looked at the video footage they had immediately. They likely know what transpired. Maybe in their eyes they see they have no fault? Also, retrofitting bars, screens, or whatever on all windows on their voyager class ships that are constantly at sea is a lot harder than putting ropes up on a few beaches. I don't think you could really compare the two fixes.

We really don't know what RCCL is doing or has done.

 

[lanejudy]

RCCL is giving the family of the little girl the corporate equivalent to "thoughts and prayers".

Actually, I believe RCCL started out more helpful at the scene immediately following. However, when the party you are trying to help starts blaming you completely, the smart move is to politely pull away. I suspect it would be a different situation without the parents’ lawyer so vocal about it all.

As for the alligator incident... that child’s family was very private and did not go public with anything. I suspect there was a decent settlement with Disney and a non-disclosure signed. Part of that may have included the fencing.

 

[robinb]

Maybe in the beginning RCCL was aiding them and trying to help. We don't know. But they gave them no time to help, they hired the shark lawyer the next day.

Thanks for that. I thought the lawyer was hired much later in the process.

 

[msjprincess]

Thanks for that. I thought the lawyer was hired much later in the process.

The lawyer was talking to the press less than 24 hours after the accident.

That immediately puts RCCL on the defensive.

 

[sam_gordon]

Honestly, I'm not sure what would be the best solution. That's what Richard Fain of RCCL gets paid a million dollars a month for.

Unfortunately bad things sometimes happen to good people. You can't protect 100% of the people 100% of the time. Not even toddlers. I would have no problem with "reasonable" changes being made to prevent another accident like this one. However, I don't think there IS a reasonable preventative measure. Signs? What should the signs say and where would you put them? Screens? Do you screen in the entire ship?

 

[mummabear]

Again, the average person is going to look at the thousands of pictures all over the internet; many posted BY the cruise line and the PERSEPTION is going to be that it is a kid's area. It doesn't matter who or what I believe. I haven't said anyone was not being truthful.

And that perception comes from where they are saying it happened.
It did not happen here:

It happened here:


See the difference that spin on it makes.

Did you see the condition the mother was in? Did you see how devastated she was? It would have been pretty cold hearted for the interviewer to pick that time to point out that the child's grandfather is solely to blame?

Because she asked to go on they were not hounding her paparazzi style. It is called journalism, and they have a responsibility to be unbiased and present the whole story.

I believe the majority on here (not everyone) feels tremendous sympathy towards the parents. IMHO, it is the worst life event you can have. This whole situation is absolutely tragic and horrible. Everyone can agree on that. However, I do not feel that anyone on here is trying to make the parents look worse. When they did the interview and placed sole blame on the cruise line, many of us adamantly disagreed. That is our right to not agree. Just like it is your right to feel the way you do. From what I have read on this thread, most want personal accountability on the grandfather. To my knowledge no one has said horrific things about the parents other than we don't like their stance on blaming RCCL.

And again, I absolutely am adamant they should call it what it is, THE POOL DECK! That is 100% what it is. Then there is no ambiguity about the location.

I dont think anyone on here (or anywhere else) doesnt feel incredible sympathy for the family. It is a horrific situation.

But go back and read and keep reading and you will see that there are a few that each time they post something different about what was said or what was done, it sounds just a bit worse. I didn't say anyone said anything horrific about them. But more than not liking their stance has been said.

I assume you are again aiming this at me, I am in no way making things sound worse, we are discussing scenarios.
Things that could have happened and things we know didnt happen (I.e she didnt run from the pool area and get herself out the window)

They have no idea what the grandfather was or was not doing, what exactly is meant by putting her on the rail or how he put her on the rail

But we do know what we need to know, he put her there. Why he did it isnt particularly relevent.

And that isn't what I was talking about either. I was talking about the "hard hitting" question some would have liked to have seen in the interview.

They dont have to be hard hitting, but you can't ask to go on TV, to lay blame elsewhere while using your grief as a shield from questions about the GFs role in it.

That isn't even close to what I said. If I thought you were not able to comprehend I would have said "then you aren't understanding what you read". I said "you aren't reading". Two very different statements.

We know that? Ok, then why does at least one poster keep referring back to the dangling/rocking/swinging?

And I never said YOU were doing anything to make it seem worse. That was aimed at one particular poster.

Because those are the words used in the statement from the police, should we just ignore what is said by the people investigating the incident?

He is more apt to have said the truth to her at that moment.

That's right, and in thay moment he admitted his guilt.

I would venture to say that at one of the reasons why Lane's parents did not sue Disney is the way Disney responded to the accident. Disney responded to the possible danger immediately and put up a fence at the GF the very next day. That immediate response was to prevent another accident that is so rare that only 8 people have died from an alligator attack in the US in the past 10 years. They saw a very remote danger and followed through on a solution. RCCL is giving the family of the little girl the corporate equivalent to "thoughts and prayers".

There is a huge difference between the two situations.
I believe Disney was at fault, I would have found against them if I was on the jury.
I dont think they made those changes just as a PR exercise.

 

[fly girl]

I dont think anyone on here (or anywhere else) doesnt feel incredible sympathy for the family. It is a horrific situation.

I remember one post on here was quite angry after the interview and said something along the lines of screw them and their grief. Maybe it was knee jerk reaction, but it was to me it lacked any sympathy.

 

[mummabear]

I remember one post on here was quite angry after the interview and said something along the lines of screw them and their grief. Maybe it was knee jerk reaction, but it was to me it lacked any sympathy.

You are right one did. See below.
I do think everyone else is sympathetic, but just because something horrific has happened, doesnt give the family a blank cheque to slander.

From what I understand Gramps told the Puerto Rico police his version of how the accident happened. Then a shady lawyer gets involved and says, "NO, you're wrong. This is how it REALLY happened."

I have no doubt whatsoever that Daddy police officer and Mommy the former Prosecutor have complained and griped for years about defendants refusing to accept responsibility for their actions. Yet when one their family members effs up royally, they suddenly change their tune and look for someone else to blame.

Even worse is them trying to profit off the grandfather's negligence. So screw them and their grief.

Honestly, I'm not sure what would be the best solution. That's what Richard Fain of RCCL gets paid a million dollars a month for.

And what he has come up with is a large area between the play area and the windows, a railing to keep people back from the windows, the windows being open only at adult height so that kids cant fall out, and instructions in the ship information action telling parents not to place children on the railing.
Honestly any more is the equivalent of a "this cape does not give you the ability to fly" warning on a dress up costume.

 

[Summer2018]

Link to the Royal Caribbean Guest Conduct Policy https://www.royalcaribbean.com/content/dam/royal/resources/pdf/guest-conduct-policy.pdf.

Unsafe Behavior
Sitting, standing, laying or climbing on, over or across any exterior or interior railings or other protective barriers, or tampering with ship’s equipment, facilities or systems designed for guest safety is not permitted. Guests may not enter or access any area that is restricted and for the use of crew members. Any other unsafe behavior, including failure to follow security instructions, is not permitted.

Seems pretty clear to me.

 

[mmouse37]

Cruise ships have balcony staterooms and open railings all over, the window area is more safe than other places on deck. Unless you mean for them to prevent any open access to passengers, in which case you are cruising in a closed box with no fresh air. I don’t think people want to cruise like that. This possible danger needs to managed personally like the rest of life.

No one needs to get in the water at wdw. That is easy to fence off to prevent access. People go on cruises to feel and see the fresh air. You are not going over the side unless you do something stupid. I’m sorry but that is reality.

I am passing no judgement on this incident but I don't understand people who ignore warnings....just like the stupid people that ignore warnings on rocky coasts to get pics and then get swept away when a wave comes along or the people that ignore fences around animals at zoos to get a pic. Every danger in life should not have to be spelled out.....like my waffle maker directions that state "do not use while bathing".

MJ