The Running Thread - 2016

[gjramsey]

ATTQOTD: Normally run in the morning before sun-rise. I did put sunscreen on for the 4:30pm run last weekend. Wore a visor and the top of my head was a little scorched, thanks to this getting old and thinning hair business!!

 

[DopeyBadger]

@opusone
I'll preface by saying I'm the type who is goal-oriented and always looking towards the future on a large scale. I've almost never been actively training for a race in the last four years. But that's what keeps me motivated (long term goals).

I guess I would step back and ask myself:
What motivates me to run?
Is there any long term goal I'd like to accomplish? A certain time goal at any distance, or completing some distance?

Possible Goals:
Sub 100 minute Half Marathon
Sub 45 minute 10K
Sub 21:30 minute 5K
Sub 150 minute 10K + Half
Sub 4 hour Marathon
Complete Ultra
Sub 5 hour 50K
Finish in top 10% age group of half marathon

This would dictate how I would set my schedule for all of the smaller cycles (dependent on what I'm trying to do on the larger cycle).

Try asking yourself these other questions:
What did I like/dislike about my last training cycle?
What changes do I feel I need to make to make it more enjoyable?
Do I prefer a rigid training schedule or a more choose your own adventure?
What would I change about my last "A" race performance?
What do I feel like was the thing holding me back in my last "A" race performance?
Do I care more about my personal time, or age group awarding?
How much time do I want to devote to my next training schedule?
What do I like about racing?

My view is that the pace at which you'd want to train during this next training cycle is always dictated by your current fitness level. Given your recent half at Dark Side, I believe your paces would be around these:



If you chose to do a 5K/10K race then you'd probably want to work on some mile/3K paced times for even shorter distance speed intervals. Overall though, I believe that endurance is king in most every race and thus, I'd keep a strong dose of slow mileage (Long Run or slower) throughout the plan. I believe the backbone of a six day a week plan (if you choose to continue that) would continue to be 3 easy workouts, 1 long run, 1 tempo, and 1 sub-tempo. However, what the tempo and sub-tempo paces are and what those workouts look like are dictated by the distance you choose to race.

If you end up deciding that you don't have a race in mind after these questions, then I say plan on training for a half marathon since it's your favorite distance. The window you could choose to race is quite wide once you get into the training as long as you take the last 10 days as a taper prior to the race. I'd say if you continuously hit training between 60-90 minutes then whatever race you choose, you'll be set.

 

[Dis5150]

Okay, I have a question for all you running experts.
I am training for my first marathon. It is on September 5th (Labor Day) and is in Colorado Springs. I live at sea level and this race will be at a little over 6000'. I lived there for 2 years about 5 years ago and know how hard it is to work out at that altitude. My plan is, since I can't go there 7-10 days ahead of the race, to get there Saturday night for a early a.m. Monday race. I have read that 48-72 hours after arrival is the window you don't want to be racing in if possible. That will put at me at race start about 30-36 hours after arrival. My question is if anyone has any other tips for coming from sea level and racing at altitude?

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Okay, I have a question for all you running experts.
I am training for my first marathon. It is on September 5th (Labor Day) and is in Colorado Springs. I live at sea level and this race will be at a little over 6000'. I lived there for 2 years about 5 years ago and know how hard it is to work out at that altitude. My plan is, since I can't go there 7-10 days ahead of the race, to get there Saturday night for a early a.m. Monday race. I have read that 48-72 hours after arrival is the window you don't want to be racing in if possible. That will put at me at race start about 30-36 hours after arrival. My question is if anyone has any other tips for coming from sea level and racing at altitude?

I did a lot of altitude training when I was in the Army, and I am planning to run Pike's Peak in a few years so have done some more recent research. The key points:

* If you can't be there 7+ days ahead of the race, arrive within 24 hours of the race - the closer to the race start, the better. Why? Because your body takes about 24 hours to really start the acclimatization process, and while going through that process it is actually worse at managing O2 than before it starts. So either arrive very early, or just in time for the race. If you race 36 - 72 hours after you land, you are going to hate life.

* Your body dumps moisture much faster at altitude - as much as twice as fast. So focus on staying very well hydrated.

* Run to an effort level, not a pace, when running at altitude. This will automatically slow you down as much as necessary. It is necessary because your heart has to work much harder to do everything at altitude. Be prepared to walk before it becomes necessary or you might totally bonk.

 

[Dis5150]

I did a lot of altitude training when I was in the Army, and I am planning to run Pike's Peak in a few years so have done some more recent research. The key points:

* If you can't be there 7+ days ahead of the race, arrive within 24 hours of the race - the closer to the race start, the better. Why? Because your body takes about 24 hours to really start the acclimatization process, and while going through that process it is actually worse at managing O2 than before it starts. So either arrive very early, or just in time for the race. If you race 36 - 72 hours after you land, you are going to hate life.

* Your body dumps moisture much faster at altitude - as much as twice as fast. So focus on staying very well hydrated.

* Run to an effort level, not a pace, when running at altitude. This will automatically slow you down as much as necessary. It is necessary because your heart has to work much harder to do everything at altitude. Be prepared to walk before it becomes necessary or you might totally bonk.

Thanks for the input!

So I should:
Plan to arrive Sunday night instead of Saturday night I guess. DD will be bummed not to have the extra day to visit.
Plan on carrying water with me on my run - they have a water/Gatorade stop every 2 miles but I have a bottle I can carry in my skirt pocket if I should be drinking every mile.
And slow down. Can I still do my intervals :30/1:00, just at a slower pace?

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Thanks for the input!

So I should:
Plan to arrive Sunday night instead of Saturday night I guess. DD will be bummed not to have the extra day to visit.
Plan on carrying water with me on my run - they have a water/Gatorade stop every 2 miles but I have a bottle I can carry in my skirt pocket if I should be drinking every mile.
And slow down. Can I still do my intervals :30/1:00, just at a slower pace?

Absolutely - you should race like you train, just slower.

 

[Waiting2goback]

I have to ask a question while I'm at work and I'll comment on everything else when I get home tonight.

I know someone that was at Star Wars weekend and was swept. Now this person is telling people they finished the race and when asked for their time they said Disney doesn't keep track of time because they are fun races only. My question is, would this bother any of you or would you let it roll off your back?

 

[roxymama]

I have to ask a question while I'm at work and I'll comment on everything else when I get home tonight.

I know someone that was at Star Wars weekend and was swept. Now this person is telling people they finished the race and when asked for their time they said Disney doesn't keep track of time because they are fun races only. My question is, would this bother any of you or would you let it roll off your back?

My natural reaction is of sympathy. This person is probably too embarassed to admit they were swept. And probably would have never even had to bring it up except people probably knew they were attempting a race. My mom-brain knows that's probably not as embarassing as the end result if someone found out they were lying about it. Which could be really bad/awkward for that person...but that's on that person. So I would just try not to be the person causing the finding out. It's frustrating to hear anyone brag about something you work hard at that they didn't really accomplish...but it's better to just let this one slide. If you are ever alone with this person and they bring it up...you could gently say something about what their time was etc...maybe they will open up to you. If they keep on bragging I say ignore ignore ignore.

I edited to add...now if this was about a course-cutter or course-cheater I would have a very different view.

 

[ZellyB]

I have to ask a question while I'm at work and I'll comment on everything else when I get home tonight.

I know someone that was at Star Wars weekend and was swept. Now this person is telling people they finished the race and when asked for their time they said Disney doesn't keep track of time because they are fun races only. My question is, would this bother any of you or would you let it roll off your back?

I'm with @roxymama I would just ignore it. There's not much point in getting upset about it and really there's not anything you can do unless you want to out the person and I can't see any good reason to do that.

 

[MommaoffherRocker]

I have to ask a question while I'm at work and I'll comment on everything else when I get home tonight.

I know someone that was at Star Wars weekend and was swept. Now this person is telling people they finished the race and when asked for their time they said Disney doesn't keep track of time because they are fun races only. My question is, would this bother any of you or would you let it roll off your back?

Yes it would absolutely bother me. But IMO let it go, normally in those situations if you try to prove her wrong you look like the bad guy. She will hang herself eventually, they always do.

 

[roxymama]

I should add it's totally ok to be bothered though.

 

[opusone]

I have to ask a question while I'm at work and I'll comment on everything else when I get home tonight.

I know someone that was at Star Wars weekend and was swept. Now this person is telling people they finished the race and when asked for their time they said Disney doesn't keep track of time because they are fun races only. My question is, would this bother any of you or would you let it roll off your back?

Life is too short; it's just not worth it to bother with things like this. Laugh it off and move on. But... do make a mental note of this person because they just showed you the type of person they are.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I have to ask a question while I'm at work and I'll comment on everything else when I get home tonight.

I know someone that was at Star Wars weekend and was swept. Now this person is telling people they finished the race and when asked for their time they said Disney doesn't keep track of time because they are fun races only. My question is, would this bother any of you or would you let it roll off your back?

You are not harmed in any way by this lie, so no, it wouldn't bother me in the least. You learned something about this person. That is valuable. Accept that gift and move on down the road.

But you should ask yourself why this bothers you so much. It also bothered you that another person was lying about race results. You need to figure out why these things bother you so much and deal with it, because it isn't healthy. People lie all the time, for reasons that are their own. Why carry their baggage?

 

[Waiting2goback]

Time for my semi-regular plug for yoga. It's very good for building strength in your core, legs, and back. You'll also find it very beneficial in keeping you flexible. You're going to need the stretching and flexibility to overcome the tightness that will naturally develop from running a higher volume of miles.

I am buying into yoga this year too. I have problems with hamstring cramps on any distance 13.1 or longer. It isn't hydration related, it is tightness. So I will do yoga this year if it kills me, and it might.

Anyone having trouble with the WDW site? Im looking for rates for 11/8 to 11/13 and it either has "Check Availability" or it never loads. Is something busy going on today and would it be correct to assume that check availability means no rooms available?

Wait, a Disney website not working, what? That is so unusual!

Training/Racing Questions

Okay all you smart training guys and gals, I finished the Dark Side Challenge this past weekend, and as I'm taking a few days off for recovery, I am struggling to figure out what is next for me. This is both a training question as well as a racing question, and I think I am spinning in circles...

1. I first ask myself, "what should my training plan be now that I'm done with my race, and therefore, my last training plan?", so I go online to look for training plans, but picking a training plan depends on what my goal is, so then...
2. I go online to find local races, but as I see the long list of possible events, I start asking myself, do I want 5ks, 10ks, half marathons, or some combination? And, roughly how much time should I schedule between races? Well, the spacing of races might depend on the length of my training plan, so this sort of gets back to a training question... go to #3
3. Do I use a separate training plan for each race (given that 5k/10k/half marathon training plans are quite different), or should I develop some master training plan that incorporates all intermediate races, and if so, again, how far in-between races? But when I start looking at training plans, they all start by targeting some key race, but I don't really have a key race, so back to looking for races... go to #2

I think my problem is that I have a completely blank slate; there isn't a specific race out there that I am focused on nor that I have scheduled. I just have a good base from training for the Dark Side Challenge, so (i) I don't want to lose my base, and (ii) I would like to try to improve my running performance.

Maybe I should just pick two half marathons (probably my favorite distance) roughly six months apart as being the "key" races each year, and then from a training perspective that takes care of 2 x 18-week plans (so, 36 weeks total), which leaves roughly 8 weeks after each race and before the next half marathon plan starts up. But what type of training should I do for the ~8 weeks after a race and before the next plan starts (since that is where I am now)? Some sort of base work, or an 8-week 5k or 10k training plan?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. How would you schedule your training and races if you had a completely blank slate with a main goal of improving running performance?

At the beginning of the year I pick my goal race and I come up with my plan for this upcoming year. For example, I am doing a full marathon (the one I missed last year because of injury) and I have a 1/2 scheduled in early October that I plan to use for my POT for 2018 Dopey. Everything else I am doing is based around these races. There were other races I wanted to do this year but they would have been to close to these races so I wouldn't have recovered in time to give my best effort at these two races. And, the 1/2 marathon just happens to fit perfectly into my training plan for the full so it will be a nice "warm-up" race to get ready for the full. So basically I kind of pick my major races and work backwards in my scheduling of my other races for the year.

Does this make sense or help in any way?

I did a lot of altitude training when I was in the Army, and I am planning to run Pike's Peak in a few years so have done some more recent research. The key points:

* If you can't be there 7+ days ahead of the race, arrive within 24 hours of the race - the closer to the race start, the better. Why? Because your body takes about 24 hours to really start the acclimatization process, and while going through that process it is actually worse at managing O2 than before it starts. So either arrive very early, or just in time for the race. If you race 36 - 72 hours after you land, you are going to hate life.

* Your body dumps moisture much faster at altitude - as much as twice as fast. So focus on staying very well hydrated.

* Run to an effort level, not a pace, when running at altitude. This will automatically slow you down as much as necessary. It is necessary because your heart has to work much harder to do everything at altitude. Be prepared to walk before it becomes necessary or you might totally bonk.

Since there has been some talk about podcasts I will mention one I listen to here because they did an episode on this issue last summer because Angie (one of the hosts) did a marathon in CO last summer and had issues due to the altitude. And the research she discussed on how to deal with it was exactly what BuckeyeBama is saying. But the podcast is Marathon Training Academy. I think it was the Leadville Trail Marathon episode on 6/28/15 if you want to listen.

QOTD: I rarely run during the day when I would need sunscreen. I am either early morning or at night after work so I am more inclined to need bug spray than sunscreen. But, on the rare occasion to do run during the day I do wear it. I am very fare skinned so I will fry if I don't. I wear the sport stuff and I let it dry good before I start sweating to prevent the eye burning. But my eyes burn just from sweat anyway.

 

[Waiting2goback]

My natural reaction is of sympathy. This person is probably too embarassed to admit they were swept. And probably would have never even had to bring it up except people probably knew they were attempting a race. My mom-brain knows that's probably not as embarassing as the end result if someone found out they were lying about it. Which could be really bad/awkward for that person...but that's on that person. So I would just try not to be the person causing the finding out. It's frustrating to hear anyone brag about something you work hard at that they didn't really accomplish...but it's better to just let this one slide. If you are ever alone with this person and they bring it up...you could gently say something about what their time was etc...maybe they will open up to you. If they keep on bragging I say ignore ignore ignore.

I edited to add...now if this was about a course-cutter or course-cheater I would have a very different view.

Yes it would absolutely bother me. But IMO let it go, normally in those situations if you try to prove her wrong you look like the bad guy. She will hang herself eventually, they always do.

Life is too short; it's just not worth it to bother with things like this. Laugh it off and move on. But... do make a mental note of this person because they just showed you the type of person they are.

You are not harmed in any way by this lie, so no, it wouldn't bother me in the least. You learned something about this person. That is valuable. Accept that gift and move on down the road.

But you should ask yourself why this bothers you so much. It also bothered you that another person was lying about race results. You need to figure out why these things bother you so much and deal with it, because it isn't healthy. People lie all the time, for reasons that are their own. Why carry their baggage?

You responses were helpful. I didn't want to get into all the details on this one to avoid a similar drama filled couple of days like we had a few weeks ago. This was more of a, "Do I have a reason to be bothered?" type question.

You all make excellent points though. BuckeyeBama, it's not that it is unhealthy. I would say it is more unproductive than anything. I don't lose sleep over it or anything. Why does it bother me, I don't know. I am a honest person so when I see someone, who I know is lying, it bugs me. I see how hard many of you guys work. I watched people during the Boston Marathon coverage the other day and they were struggling, grabbing hamstrings, bending over sucking wind, etc... They all worked hard to get there (assuming) and then you have someone pretending to finish a race they didn't train for. In the grand scheme of things I do feel bad for this person. I realize the lies come out of a lack of self esteem (knowing this person for over a year) and a desire to be accepted. So I do feel bad for this person.

I won't call them out on it. I don't see this person anymore, thankfully. I know when I get up tomorrow I have a run planned for after work. I know I am improving myself and working toward goals. I know I am receiving the benefits of my work and what running does for me. I realize this person is robbing themselves of all of these benefits. And, like opusone said, I do laugh at it. It is all so ridiculous it's laughable.

So I thank you for your feedback and helping to put it all in perspective.

 

[keahgirl8]

QOTD: As our days are getting longer and the temps increase, we have more time to get our runs in outdoors when there is still sunlight out. Do you use sunscreen when you go out for a run?

ATTQOTD: This is one of those things I should do more often. It is usually late or very early when I run and a sunburn is something I am able to avoid. Yet, if I know I will be out there for a while I will use it. At are 32, I have had basal cell skin cancer removed twice so far, the first time being in my mid 20's. The second time at 30 and I have a ugly scar on my back from this process. I get checked yearly to monitor the situation.

I absolutely wear sunscreen every day I go outside. All weather, all climates, all locations. If the sun is out, I have sunscreen on. Everyone should, honestly.

Speaking of sunscreen, one of my problems is that it can get into my eyes when I sweat and of course, that burns. Do the sports type sun screens include something that prevents them from running when you get sweaty?

I used Coppertone Sport. I sweat a lot and it never gets in my eyes. I also wear a hat.

 

[FFigawi]

I did a lot of altitude training when I was in the Army, and I am planning to run Pike's Peak in a few years so have done some more recent research. The key points:

* If you can't be there 7+ days ahead of the race, arrive within 24 hours of the race - the closer to the race start, the better. Why? Because your body takes about 24 hours to really start the acclimatization process, and while going through that process it is actually worse at managing O2 than before it starts. So either arrive very early, or just in time for the race. If you race 36 - 72 hours after you land, you are going to hate life.

* Your body dumps moisture much faster at altitude - as much as twice as fast. So focus on staying very well hydrated.

* Run to an effort level, not a pace, when running at altitude. This will automatically slow you down as much as necessary. It is necessary because your heart has to work much harder to do everything at altitude. Be prepared to walk before it becomes necessary or you might totally bonk.

Another good way of training for altitude if you're not already there is to run in high humidity. The humidity will force you to breathe heavy and slow down, and you end up running by effort, just as @BuckeyeBama suggests. My friends in Houston who are running Pike's Peak this year are making one or two trips to Colorado and Utah to train in the mountains, but most of their work will be done at sea level in the heat and humidity of Houston. That'll have them as well prepared as you can be if you don't live at higher elevation.

I have to ask a question while I'm at work and I'll comment on everything else when I get home tonight.

I know someone that was at Star Wars weekend and was swept. Now this person is telling people they finished the race and when asked for their time they said Disney doesn't keep track of time because they are fun races only. My question is, would this bother any of you or would you let it roll off your back?

I would simply laugh, shrug, and know that you're a better person than she is. Since I think I know who this is, I might be tempted to throw in a "oh, really? Everyone else who finished got a time."

 

[Anisum]

My mom has a terrible time when sunscreen gets in her eyes (it would burn for hours no matter how much she tried washing it out) so I asked her and she said she switched to baby sunscreen and uses it sparingly.

I use Neutrogena Ultra Sheer Dry-Touch Sunscreen because it doesn't sweat out. I will say if you don't rub it in well enough you will end up with white streaks when it dries but as someone who has that same issue with their eyes I am willing to risk the streaks.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Another good way of training for altitude if you're not already there is to run in high humidity. The humidity will force you to breathe heavy and slow down, and you end up running by effort, just as @BuckeyeBama suggests. My friends in Houston who are running Pike's Peak this year are making one or two trips to Colorado and Utah to train in the mountains, but most of their work will be done at sea level in the heat and humidity of Houston. That'll have them as well prepared as you can be if you don't live at higher elevation.

They probably already know, but you should ask them how they are training for the steep course. I plan on running the stairs of a local stadium - a lot. Doesn't help with the altitude, but does help with the climb itself.

Another trick that some people try to simulate the feeling of running at altitude is the use of a training mask. They do force you to slow down, and should never be worn when trying to improve running efficiency, but the masks help prepare runners mentally for the feeling of O2 deprivation while running at altitude. I have seen studies that indicate that they help physically, and studies that show that thy don't help physically - but every study says that they help psychologically. You learn to slow down and deal with the lack of O2. Your lung capacity increases because you are forced to take longer, deeper breaths. But your red blood cell count does not increase, so it does not fully simulate running at altitude - just the feeling.

 

[FFigawi]

They probably already know, but you should ask them how they are training for the steep course. I plan on running the stairs of a local stadium - a lot. Doesn't help with the altitude, but does help with the climb itself.

Parking garages and treadmill inclines. Pretty much the same way they trained for Comrades and other mountainous races. The nice thing about these kinds of races is you can set the incline to match the terrain you'll on and power walk to your heart's content.