The Rioting in France.

[nwdisgal]

Have you noticed that you seem incapable of disagreeing with me without throwing rude and nasty insults in my direction, in an attempt to boost your arguement?. You single handedly are supporting my observation that many of the visitors to the USA from Germany are RUDE!

That has never been my personal experience. We have a lot of German tourists in Hawaii as well as German business owners and investors. As a traveller, I have to say that the Epcot CMs at the Germany Pavillon were some of the nicest I've met. The wine was poured generously at the German pavillon wine tasting.

 

[BelleBoo&AmisMum]

This is definitely a situation in which religion and culture are intertwined with economics. The French are very proud of their culture, for good or ill. They are a complex people and it's hard for us, with a whopping 230 years of history, to understand some of the historical undertones of their politics and society. I know there are a lot of you out there who just viscerally hate the French and look for any opportunity to castigate and mock them but given what's going on in our own country, we'd do well not to throw any rocks lest our glass house come crashing down.

I agree 100% with everything you said. My FIL was in Algeria as well, it's not something he talks about much.

I've had a hard time around here for quite awhile with the French bashing. My kids are half French, my husband was born and raised in France, it's a big part of our family and I hate that there are those out there so ignorant to continually bash France.

I've been staying out of this here because I'm having a hard time keeping calm and responding rationally when it's moving closer and closer to our family.

 

[DawnCt1]

I've had a hard time around here for quite awhile with the French bashing. My kids are half French, my husband was born and raised in France, it's a big part of our family and I hate that there are those out there so ignorant to continually bash France.

I've been staying out of this here because I'm having a hard time keeping calm and responding rationally when it's moving closer and closer to our family.

I too am part French, but clearly the mistakes of the French government has helped those chickens come home to roost. One can be French and still see the problems that have been created by the "separate but equal" society that they thought they were creating.

 

[Planogirl]

So maybe the French made mistakes in allowing this situation to fester. But now what? Things are way out of hand and they may need to use deadly force at this point. I'm not sure if that would only make things worse though but what else is there when it gets to this point?

 

[DawnCt1]

So maybe the French made mistakes in allowing this situation to fester. But now what? Things are way out of hand and they may need to use deadly force at this point. I'm not sure if that would only make things worse though but what else is there when it gets to this point?

I absolutely agree. Finally on "Day 11" they are instituting a curfew, that should have been the case on Day 2. Finally they are calling out 1500 reserve police, they should have called out their army on "Day 3". They need to respond to this with certainty and not negotiate with the Imams and Imirs that are calling for negotiation. Peaceful living is NOT NEGOTIABLE.

 

[Planogirl]

I absolutely agree. Finally on "Day 11" they are instituting a curfew, that should have been the case on Day 2. Finally they are calling out 1500 reserve police, they should have called out their army on "Day 3". They need to respond to this with certainty and not negotiate with the Imams and Imirs that are calling for negotiation. Peaceful living is NOT NEGOTIABLE.

I don't know about that. I think that negotiation is proper too. It's just that if someone is being beaten or if a fire is started something forceful needs to be done to stop it.

 

[yeartolate]

I hope no one is using this to claim moral superiority over the French, we hardly have room to judge.

 

[NJBlackBerry]

Time to trot out this old chestnut:

Question: How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?
Answer: They don't know; they've never tried.

 

[DawnCt1]

I hope no one is using this to claim moral superiority over the French, we hardly have room to judge.

I think we can certainly evaluate the reasons that they found themselves in this position and there is plenty of room for criticism in the way that it has been handled. Now whether thats a "moral" issue or not, depends upon your point of view. I think that Chirac felt that refusing to join the war on terror and specifically Iraq would insulate him from the wrath of angry Muslims. The lesson is, you can't buy peace.

 

[DawnCt1]

Time to trot out this old chestnut:

Question: How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?
Answer: They don't know; they've never tried.

That's definately funny and what makes a joke funny is that its believable. There is some history here....

 

[DawnCt1]

I don't know about that. I think that negotiation is proper too. It's just that if someone is being beaten or if a fire is started something forceful needs to be done to stop it.

I don't think negotiations are appropriate when you have no control.

 

[DVCPAT]

So we dreamed the clash 'Black against White' and vice versa during and after Katrina? America didn't appear to very homgenuous then to the rest of the world

I wonder if the European minorities are soccer fans???

A Source of Shame

One of the biggest challenges for American sports fans is understanding the huge appeal of professional soccer (football) in Europe. To a large degree, the scope of the intense hometown support and spirited rivalries that exist between dueling teams is admirable athletic competition. But extreme fan behavior is also part of the mix in European football. Now, a three-year REAL SPORTS investigation uncovers a disturbing, unchecked aspect of fan activity -- blatant racism. Among examples of extreme fan reaction to individual players are the mimicking of monkey sounds and the throwing of bananas anytime a black player touches the ball, as well as the waving of swastikas and open Nazi salutes. Speaking with Bryant Gumbel, players such as Thierry Henry of England's Arsenal reveal that in parts of Europe "home field advantage" has less to do with the color of one's jersey and more to do with the color of one's skin. *

Real Sports... showed video clips of the aforementioned racial taunts and it was so out of control. If I remember correctly, fans in Spain were singled out for making "monkey sounds." Supposedly, the taunts are an insult to England for having to employ Black soccer players while the Spanish team is of pure European blood. Real Sports... showed pictures of a soccer player passionately doing the Nazi salute on the sidelines of the soccer field during a game to his fellow Nazi supports in the stands

 

[BelleBoo&AmisMum]

Time to trot out this old chestnut:

Question: How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?
Answer: They don't know; they've never tried.

THIS is the crap that pisses me off, my husbands grandfather was murdered trying to defend his home and family from the nazis, and what do we hear over and over again - the French are chickens and we are superior. Guess what, we're not!!

Ok, so the right wing hates the French, why?! Because they had the nerve to question the White House, and lord knows if you don't follow blindly you're a coward or worse, our enemy.

What's going on in France right now is a disgrace, but you know what, we've had a bigger disgrace going on for 5+ years right here at home and I don't see anyone getting so worked up over that one! I don't see Dawn and the rest of the Freepers getting worked up over the growing poverty rate or the ever growing divide in this country. And why would they, it's far easier to talk crap about others when ignoring the HUGE problems in your own back yard!

 

[Planogirl]

I would be interested in this so-called history that indicates that the joke is in any way truthful. Looking back over history, I don't see where this reputation came from.

 

[shortbun]

Have you noticed that you seem incapable of disagreeing with me without throwing rude and nasty insults in my direction, in an attempt to boost your arguement?. You single handedly are supporting my observation that many of the visitors to the USA from Germany are RUDE!

Know what Dawn? No matter how I feel about the current situation in France ...I don't think it's appropriate to slam "visitors from Germany" over what a DIS member posts to you. Bad form, imho.

 

[NJBlackBerry]

Since you are obviously unhappy in or with the United States, you have several options:

1) Leave. Plenty of people SAID they were going to Canada after the last two elections. But didn't. Most of Hollywood was going to leave. I guess they forgot.

2) Work within your own party to try and come up with a candidate that could win the presidential election. It shouldn't be that difficult. Hint: he should not be named Hillary or live in Massachusetts.

3) Continue to whine and read the NY Times. Where they REALLY hate the fact that they are American.

I am not a right winger, nor do I hate the French. I had a wonderful time in France this summer. I am not anti-French. The French have a history of appeasement and of thumbing their nose at the US even when it may have been in France's best interests. And that's what I don't appreciate.

Sorry about your husband's grandfather. And the joke is really funny. Works every time.

 

[DawnCt1]

THIS is the crap that pisses me off, my husbands grandfather was murdered trying to defend his home and family from the nazis, and what do we hear over and over again - the French are chickens and we are superior. Guess what, we're not!!

:

And so did 300,000 to 400,000 thousand Americans. France has had leaders that are too ready to capitualate when the going gets tough. I wonder when they will announce their "exit strategy" in this conflict.
Clearly, France's socialistic society has yielded a 60% unemployment rate in these immigrant neighborhoods, and the very generous unemployment and welfare benefits provide no motivation for any of them to look for a job. The unemployment rate for the French exceeds 10%. While the USA may have its problems, our overall unemployment rate is 5%. The poor will stay poor if they aren't willing and able to go to work. They will get low end jobs if they aren't willing to stay in school, that is the reality of the situation and it also belongs on another thread.

 

[Charade]

So we dreamed the clash 'Black against White' and vice versa during and after Katrina? America didn't appear to very homgenuous then to the rest of the world

When I made my donations to the RC and SA I specifically requested them to go ONLY to white people. Rich white people.

If you took a real close look, you may have noticed WHO was promoting that.

 

[DawnCt1]

When I made my donations to the RC and SA I specifically requested them to go ONLY to white people. Rich white people.

If you took a real close look, you may have noticed WHO was promoting that.

 

[Charade]

The problem we have with the integration of immigrants over here is that we have a specific culture in each of our countries - be it France, Germany, Denmark, etc. And we usually expect them to adapt to this cultural background.

The USA has less problems in that respect as you don't have a very long history and neither an own culture. Your country has always been a melting pot, incorporating the immigrants' culture and thus adapting. Although that seems to be changing with the fastgrowing hispanic portion of your society. Many people I know in the States already complain about the growing hispanic influence.

Who were the first "Germans" and where did they come from? I think it's just that you've had a longer time to be able to get your "pot" to a certain point. But Germans of 500 years ago are different than today's Germans just like here in the US. Point? Everything changes over time. It's that many people don't like rapid change and they don't like it when people resist integrating themselves into the local culture.

Nevertheless I think the riots in France right now are similar to those we know from i.e. LA: Poor people who have no lobby, no real access to their country's wealth and thus accumualte a large potential for violence. Then often a spark is enough to ignite that explosive potential. Some cops bashing a black or hispanic, or like now in France some youths dying in an accident while being chased by the flics (French cops).

Who's wealth?