The 'Planning Backlash'

[Suvadoo]

As could a local to NYC.

Come on. Try harder. You can do this!

Our last vacation, we has several our of towners who we joined. And they....wait for it....met Anna and Elsa.

I guess standby is only open to Florida residents who can make it over for the day.

You seem to be ignoring what I'm saying: Take NYC out of it. You are a local. You can go to the parks anytime you want. Therefore your opinions about preplanning a WDW trip and reserving FP+ are really irrelevant to non-locals. It doesn't matter if the day you planned in the parks gets rained out, you can go another day. You are a local.
If this happens to me, I can't go another day. Do you now understand what I'm saying?

 

[Virtucomp]

I don't mind uber planning, I plan every trip we take and probably put the same effort in. My problem is WDW's clunky and inefficient way they do thing. You want me to book ADR's at 180+10 some of which impossible to change at 180+9 and book my FP's at 60 days and then you change your schedule/closing times after that...add to that a website that is glitchy at best and WDW can be an extremely frustrating vacation to plan. That is why people are ADR hoarders. I think it should be the same reservation time for everything so you know what is going on and don't have to play press your luck at the 60 day mark hoping for no whammies where your only available FP for rides you really want are on days you have ADR's in different parks. There are just too many moving parts at Disney that are totally reliant on the other part to have them open up at such different times. So that is my thing...open all reservation systems at the same time.

I personally enjoy the planning so the added FP+ thing is not a big deal. I do have issues with the start dates. Why 180 days, 60 Days, 27 days (Be Our Guest) Why not keep all the dates closer to the time you are traveling? If everyone is booking by the same rules it should not matter if you make dining reservation 60 days before the trip instead of 180.

Wouldn't make more planning sense to pick a park for each day and then be able to get your dining reservations and fast passes at the same window? This is what we ran into in September with planning. I know I have ADR for someplace in EPCOT on a Friday but now I won't know if I can get the FP+ to work with that ADR until 120 days later when the FP+ window opens. Now if I find I need to move parks to fit FP+ availability the dining spots are all taken.

I say planning is ok with me but lets make it easier and set all the trigger dates at 60 days before the trip.

 

[tim123]

I humbly request your forgiveness for my offense!

You may very well be serious/correct, as the Tower is kind of a PITA. However, in your golden years, when regaling your great grandchildren with the wondrous stories of the incredible sites you have seen in your long, illustrious lifetime......even though a day at TL may be more fun, I kinda want the Eiffel Tower on my list instead. That's all I meant!

I climbed it in 1968! During the almost Paris revolution!
No Disney world then, no ToT, no TL, no Euro (broke) Disney….and on broadway you could see "Hair" with an all naked cast!
Maybe thats why I just wanna go to the Poly and have a pineapple thingy and ride the Indy speedway at the MK. Jaded!
WDW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCDjdbRcEHU

 

[Suvadoo]

I live near NYC
I dont understand why these tourists get so crazy about these Broadway shows!
I just calm down and pick a different day

Yup, exactly what I keep trying to communicate, but my point is being ignored.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

There are beaches famous for surfing and on certain islands there is one famous beach, so it is logical. 4 hours has been posted many times(and not just on holidays) and they have also blocked SB completely without announcing it prior(seems pretty unfair to me), but even your example of 3 hours is a long time to waste if you only have one park day. On an 8 hour day that is a significant part of your day and parents with small children probably don't average much more than that in a park.

I'm not sure why it is petty to think that planning reservations at 180, while others open at others dates and then fp at 60 days is jumping through hoops, but you are certainly entitled to think that way.

You are not going to see the pope because it is not mentally possible for you, not because you are paying for it and then have to choose between waiting many hours in line to hear him speak or not seeing him at all to do something else equally important during this event(maybe see the other vatican officials speak). I don't know enough about a pope visit to give another example. I am not sure what the pope visit encompasses as far as events.

I mean really, comparisons only work when they are logical

He holds a mass that supposedly a million people attend. People go for that. Not much details, so no idea what else will occur.

And you are right about comparisons--but I am not the one equating Disney as the only once in a lifetime vacation that requires effort.

The Pope visit requires effort. But due to volume of crowds--I don't want to have to work through all that. For anyone to suggest that would require less effort than Disney would be hysterically funny to me. But yet--but by saying that onlyDisney requiries all this effort--they are doing just that.

I did attempt to attend an inauguration. I gave up when we were held up for an hour for the motorcade. (Probably more.) this didn't include folding the beards to that point. Then it was a heck of a line for security. It was cold and I has too little ones, so we bailed for Union station. I wanted to see it all--and it was so disappointing for all the delays. My husband did finally enter during the address. So I have done the crowd thing and the wait thing. Many hours for a free event. I did not plan better. Actually had it all planned out, but after leaving my parents house later than planned, by step mother would not allow me to adjust our schedule to remedy that. We had a meet and greet breakfast with a Senator and his office was on the opposite side. And you could only enter through your designated gate. Had I comprehended the logistics better and insisted we bail in breakfast--all would have been fine. But C'est la vie. 6 hours of my life I won't get back.

So it is balderdash that people for some reason are these uber planners for Disney and no one else is for any other trip or vacation in the world.

 

[nugov2]

He holds a mass that supposedly a million people attend. People go for that. Not much details, so no idea what else will occur.

And you are right about comparisons--but I am not the one equating Disney as the only once in a lifetime vacation that requires effort.

The Pope visit requires effort. But due to volume of crowds--I don't want to have to work through all that. For anyone to suggest that would require less effort than Disney would be hysterically funny to me. But yet--but by saying that onlyDisney requiries all this effort--they are doing just that.

I did attempt to attend an inauguration. I gave up when we were held up for an hour for the motorcade. (Probably more.) this didn't include folding the beards to that point. Then it was a heck of a line for security. It was cold and I has too little ones, so we bailed for Union station. I wanted to see it all--and it was so disappointing for all the delays. My husband did finally enter during the address. So I have done the crowd thing and the wait thing. Many hours for a free event. I did not plan better. Actually had it all planned out, but after leaving my parents house later than planned, by step mother would not allow me to adjust our schedule to remedy that. We had a meet and greet breakfast with a Senator and his office was on the opposite side. And you could only enter through your designated gate. Had I comprehended the logistics better and insisted we bail in breakfast--all would have been fine. But C'est la vie. 6 hours of my life I won't get back.

So it is balderdash that people for some reason are these uber planners for Disney and no one else is for any other trip or vacation in the world.

I think you are confused though, people are complaining about the extra lengths WDW planning requires in the planning and that adds unnecessary extra planning b/c you have to plan, then plan and rearrange and flip things around b/c of the system they have in place. It is silly.

I don't think the pope visitation requires you at to book a hotel for the window of time the pope will be there. Then at 6 months book a reservation for church he is at and then at 30 days book the street you need to be on to wave to him, but now you have found out the street availability won't match with the church you booked so now you have to decide between seeing him in the church or waving to him on the street. If only they would have let you book both at the same time you would have known in advance if you could get both or needed to try a different day, but now you sacrifice moving everything else for your week planned to try for this one thing you wanted(see him at the church) for another. If only they would have let you book the street and the church at the same time(which makes the most sense) you would have had a higher chance of getting both.

Seriously, would anyone be happy if that is what a pope visit required for planning? They may do it b/c he is popular, but I don't think anyone would agree that it is petty that thinking that having such a system in place to see the pope is unnecessary and for lack of a better word, stupid.

 

[ArwenMarie]

You seem to be ignoring what I'm saying: Take NYC out of it. You are a local. You can go to the parks anytime you want. Therefore your opinions about preplanning a WDW trip and reserving FP+ are really irrelevant to non-locals. It doesn't matter if the day you planned in the parks gets rained out, you can go another day. You are a local.
If this happens to me, I can't go another day. Do you now understand what I'm saying?

Yup, exactly what I keep trying to communicate, but my point is being ignored.

Yeah, I can't even listen to locals talk about FP+. I've dropped a lot of Disney blogs and podcasts because the local perspective is so out-of-whack with my experience. It's a lot of "Hush hush you're overreacting." I guess they want us tourists to keep coming and paying all those taxes for them LOL

 

[estherhead]

He holds a mass that supposedly a million people attend. People go for that. Not much details, so no idea what else will occur.

And you are right about comparisons--but I am not the one equating Disney as the only once in a lifetime vacation that requires effort.

The Pope visit requires effort. But due to volume of crowds--I don't want to have to work through all that. For anyone to suggest that would require less effort than Disney would be hysterically funny to me. But yet--but by saying that onlyDisney requiries all this effort--they are doing just that.

I did attempt to attend an inauguration. I gave up when we were held up for an hour for the motorcade. (Probably more.) this didn't include folding the beards to that point. Then it was a heck of a line for security. It was cold and I has too little ones, so we bailed for Union station. I wanted to see it all--and it was so disappointing for all the delays. My husband did finally enter during the address. So I have done the crowd thing and the wait thing. Many hours for a free event. I did not plan better. Actually had it all planned out, but after leaving my parents house later than planned, by step mother would not allow me to adjust our schedule to remedy that. We had a meet and greet breakfast with a Senator and his office was on the opposite side. And you could only enter through your designated gate. Had I comprehended the logistics better and insisted we bail in breakfast--all would have been fine. But C'est la vie. 6 hours of my life I won't get back.

So it is balderdash that people for some reason are these uber planners for Disney and no one else is for any other trip or vacation in the world.

I didn't want to bring up DC because I thought people would jump all over me saying it's totally different, but my daughter and I are going on a short little trip that shouldn't require much planning, at least in my imaginary world. In reality I had to write a letter to my local congressman (who I first had to figure out who that was) and request that he request a Capitol tour and White House tour. This had to be done months in advance and I had to take whatever times he gave me. He made it in the pm for me as he said White House tours generally happen in the morning and we won't know if we are allowed to go or not go until 3 days before hand. If we get a White House tour invite and it is in the afternoon for some odd reason, we'll have to choose between the two. But they need to know where we are staying and what we are doing before they can agree. And our social security numbers. If you are 1 minute late your 6 months of planning are for naught as they won't let you in. Also if ANY thing happens in the world at large that is different than normal, all your plans get cancelled.

I've visited DC many times and never been in the Capitol or White House because I never get invited and/or something happens where it all gets cancelled.

I'm not bitter about this, I understand. I'm just saying all kinds of travel requires planning and has to be flexible for abrupt changes.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Rent won plenty of awards, but it was never a particularly difficult show to get tickets for.


Irrelevant. The topic of discussion is, (or has become) is it easier to plan a Disney vacation or a vacation to some other destination. The existence of ticket brokers make planning trips to other locations easier. That may disgust you. Or it might cost you more. But one cannot ignore that the option exists and that the option makes planning much easier.


I thought I said 3 hours. (See post #217). But whatever. Waits were 4 hours and more during Christmas break. The data isn't that stale. The talking point is...according to you, one always has the option of seeing A&E in the standby line and that A&E never sell out. "Always" is a hard word to use if the posted wait is 180 minutes. Who goes to the MK to do just two or three things in a day?

Some people do. You did say 3. Someone else said 4. Was the line OPEN of CLOSED? If open, nobody was prevented access due to capacity. So unless that mine was closed to you, you had the chance. Your choice to not take that chance is not my problem nor does it negate that the opportunity was there.

You've lost me here. Are we back to Broadway shows, or still on Anna & Elsa? Not too many people will wait 4 hours in line for a Broadway show. Locals will come back at a different time if they see a 4 hour line and out-of-towners generally have their tickets in hand before the plane touches down. And if they don't, they tip the hotel concierge to secure them tickets or....wait for it....buy from a broker.

You claimed it was not possible to wait in a line for discounted tickets since they only become available so many hours before.

If they were available even earlier, I am pretty sure some tourists would be willing to wait to save money.

Lost me again. What is selling out? Prove that what wouldn't? You seem to be trying to equate two things that cannot be equated. And that is where this discussion started. Because of the way Broadway tickets are bought and sold, taking into account box office, TKTS and brokers, getting tickets cannot be compared to getting a FP+. No one has to be on their computer at midnight 60 days in advance to see a Broadway show. Getting tickets is simply easier, albeit, more expensive, if one is looking only at that one activity to the exclusion of all others.

Pretty sure that if they wanted a prime seat--some strategy may be of benefit.

Locally for our traveling Broadway shows--members get first dibs on the day tickets to on sale and it is not uncommon for popular shows to fill quickly. Those who want their choice, indeed have to be proactive and early. They take their chnahces last minute even if a show is here several days. I bought tickets for A performer when they went on sale in December. (May have been before thanksgiving, but I don't remember.). It was for his performance in February. Just so happened I remembered a minute or so before the window opened. And it was a struggle as those seats that were left were going fast. I did get 2 Mezzanine tickets---but in 2 hours, the entire first floor was sold out. Only balcony was left and it was going quickly.

People will do what they can, when they can, to get what they want.

If the venue restricts the parameters of when they can go on sale, when they discount--folks will respond accordingly.

NYC is an expensive place to visit. Our hotel was free (no taxes or surcharges, thank you HHonors) when we went, but I still spent ~$1200 or so after train fare for all the things we did. We planned within the parameters of our budget and our time. A Broadway show at a premium did not fit our budget and I didn't want to take my chances In the TKTS line as it still would eat a chunk of our budget.

But to your last point--if one is willing to look at it at the exclusion of others they could--I wasn't and we went on with our trip.

The whole premise that Disney is unique destination of insane required planning is in and of itself insane. You will do that you feel is needed, but like those last minute Broadway tickets--your importance of doing something last minute carries with it risk of not succeeding.

But for now, Anna and Elsa IS an option same day IF you are willing to make that a priority. Your comparison to Broadway does not change that.

And I get that folks have different planning styles. Those styles are only mandated by the planner themselves.

 

[Suvadoo]

Yeah, I can't even listen to locals talk about FP+. I've dropped a lot of Disney blogs and podcasts because the local perspective is so out-of-whack with my experience. It's a lot of "Hush hush you're overreacting." I guess they want us tourists to keep coming and paying all those taxes for them LOL

Agreed about the podcasts. I find it so aggravating when anyone who has a dissenting opinion from the host gets cut off. It seems that Disney has approached the podcasters and asked them to refrain from any negative comments about FP+, so basically you hear nothing.

 

[JimmyV]

Yeah, I can't even listen to locals talk about FP+. I've dropped a lot of Disney blogs and podcasts because the local perspective is so out-of-whack with my experience. It's a lot of "Hush hush you're overreacting." I guess they want us tourists to keep coming and paying all those taxes for them LOL

"For even the most seasoned visitor, the 47 square miles that comprise the Walt Disney World Resort can be a daunting challenge."
Source? The hosts of this Board.

 

[cygnusx1jg]

Yeah, I can't even listen to locals talk about FP+. I've dropped a lot of Disney blogs and podcasts because the local perspective is so out-of-whack with my experience. It's a lot of "Hush hush you're overreacting." I guess they want us tourists to keep coming and paying all those taxes for them LOL

I was born, raised, and currently live in the Tampa Bay area. I didn't realize this was a discussion forum only for people that take vacations to Disney for a week or longer only. Yes, our experiences with the parks will be different since I can go just about any time I'm not working. (I can feel the jealousy!) And no, please feel free to go anywhere other than Florida for your vacation--I'd prefer it.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think you are confused though, people are complaining about the extra lengths WDW planning requires in the planning and that adds unnecessary extra planning b/c you have to plan, then plan and rearrange and flip things around b/c of the system they have in place. It is silly.

I don't think the pope visitation requires you at to book a hotel for the window of time the pope will be there. Then at 6 months book a reservation for church he is at and then at 30 days book the street you need to be on to wave to him, but now you have found out the street availability won't match with the church you booked so now you have to decide between seeing him in the church or waving to him on the street. If only they would have let you book both at the same time you would have known in advance if you could get both or needed to try a different day, but now you sacrifice moving everything else for your week planned to try for this one thing you wanted(see him at the church) for another. If only they would have let you book the street and the church at the same time(which makes the most sense) you would have had a higher chance of getting both.

Seriously, would anyone be happy if that is what a pope visit required for planning? They may do it b/c he is popular, but I don't think anyone would agree that it is petty that thinking that having such a system in place to see the pope is unnecessary and for lack of a better word, stupid.

You think it so stupid? If you don't live in Philly, please tell me with no planning on how much time it will take you to enter the city, where you will park and how much time you need to get to the venue?

Too stupid? Okay--

Let's discuss a non-local, or heck even a local--physically attends an inauguration with no plan and no wait.

I am NOT confused. The Extra lengths are only as necessary as you require this to be. If you world centers around Anna and Elsa FP+ being the symbol of an awesome vacation--that is all on you.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Agreed about the podcasts. I find it so aggravating when anyone who has a dissenting opinion from the host gets cut off. It seems that Disney has approached the podcasters and asked them to refrain from any negative comments about FP+, so basically you hear nothing.

Many of them obviously have financial stakes in this whole thing I guess so it's in their best interest to try to put a positive spin on things. Bloggers and authors too.

I also think some of them genuinely enjoy FP and I get that. Waltz in, ride a few rides, eat, go home. Sure sounds great. If I didn't have to buy airfare to Central Florida for that!

 

[JimmyV]

You claimed it was not possible to wait in a line for discounted tickets since they only become available so many hours before.

If they were available even earlier, I am pretty sure some tourists would be willing to wait to save money.

Tickets go on sale at 10:00 for matinees. Since the shows start in just a few hours, there is a finite amount of time that one can wait. If they opened at 8:00, would people queue up? I suppose so. But the ticket supply would simply run dry earlier. If you move up the start time, you necessarily move up the end time. There simply isn't any way for someone to wait in line 5 hours at TKTS.

Locally for our traveling Broadway shows--members get first dibs on the day tickets to on sale and it is not uncommon for popular shows to fill quickly. Those who want their choice, indeed have to be proactive and early.

Tell me when and where and I'll bet that for less than $250 per ticket, I can get a ticket to one of your local shows on Stub Hub in about 45 seconds.

 

[Suvadoo]

"For even the most seasoned visitor, the 47 square miles that comprise the Walt Disney World Resort can be a daunting challenge."
Source? The hosts of this Board.

On this week's podcast
when MB and FP+ was announced for DLR, Kevin made the remark like, "good, why should We be the only ones who have to suffer." And the host of this board cut off the discussion by saying he likes MB's and FP+. End of discussion. He has done this on several occasions. MB and FP+ dissenters are not allowed to speak or the subject is quickly changed by the host.

 

[JimmyV]

You think it so stupid? If you don't live in Philly, please tell me with no planning on how much time it will take you to enter the city, where you will park and how much time you need to get to the venue?

SEPTA will take you directly from the airport to downtown. No need to park anywhere. From there? Hello Uber!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I didn't want to bring up DC because I thought people would jump all over me saying it's totally different, but my daughter and I are going on a short little trip that shouldn't require much planning, at least in my imaginary world. In reality I had to write a letter to my local congressman (who I first had to figure out who that was) and request that he request a Capitol tour and White House tour. This had to be done months in advance and I had to take whatever times he gave me. He made it in the pm for me as he said White House tours generally happen in the morning and we won't know if we are allowed to go or not go until 3 days before hand. If we get a White House tour invite and it is in the afternoon for some odd reason, we'll have to choose between the two. But they need to know where we are staying and what we are doing before they can agree. And our social security numbers. If you are 1 minute late your 6 months of planning are for naught as they won't let you in. Also if ANY thing happens in the world at large that is different than normal, all your plans get cancelled.

I've visited DC many times and never been in the Capitol or White House because I never get invited and/or something happens where it all gets cancelled.

I'm not bitter about this, I understand. I'm just saying all kinds of travel requires planning and has to be flexible for abrupt changes.

Yep.

As for the Capitol, we did discover that Same tickets can be had. If depends on availability and crowds. When I realized this, they did have them, but in our schedule. Their visitors center is really nice though. My kids loved the 3D map models of DC from its beginnings to the present.

And despite being "local" and it being "free"--we never made it back there before we moved.

Yes, localness makes something more convenient to get back into. But sometimes life happens and it may never come.

 

[mom2rtk]

I've thought about the local/non-local thing a lot.

If I lived close enough to day-trip to Disney..... even I would be loving FP+. It was like a gift from the heavens from locals. They don't have as much on the line on any given day and if they miss something or the weather changes last minute, no big loss.

If I lived an hour or two away and didn't want to pay for lodging, I would be thrilled to bits not to have to leave at the crack of dawn to be there in time to still get a FP for the headliners.

I totally get why a local would not be a fan. I just wish the locals would see the other side of this.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I've thought about the local/non-local thing a lot.

If I lived close enough to day-trip to Disney..... even I would be loving FP+. It was like a gift from the heavens from locals. They don't have as much on the line on any given day and if they miss something or the weather changes last minute, no big loss.

If I lived an hour or two away and didn't want to pay for lodging, I would be thrilled to bits not to have to leave at the crack of dawn to be there in time to still get a FP for the headliners.

I totally get why a local would not be a fan. I just wish the locals would see the other side of this.

I would love it too.

I was joking before, but saying that people are getting too crazy about FP+/planning when you live right there is just as silly as me going on a NYC tourism message board and saying that everyone on there needs to relax about getting their Broadway tickets, and telling them to just soak up the atmosphere of the city if their plans don't work out