The 'Planning Backlash'

[DisneyKidds]

Yes, people, another FP+ related cluster......um, discussion. If you don't like the noise, find another thread!

I lifted this from another thread and thought it might be interesting to discuss. No intention to pick on the person who said it, as it's indicative of what a lot of people say in the myriad of FP+ threads.

I agree that this amount of planning for a visit to an amusemnet park is completely ridiculous.

Yes, I recognize there are many other reasons why people might not like FP+, but there seem to be many people who dislike FP+ because it forces them to plan out their vacation and hold to a schedule.

My first observation on the quote above relates to the amount of planning required to 'visit an amusement park'. I, for one, certainly don't consider a trip to WDW a 'visit to an amusement park'. Sure, for locals it may be, but is it really just that for the majority of the people on these boards?

For me a visit to an amusement park is a day at Six Flags Great Adventure. You go in the morning, drop your $15 to park and $60 or whatever to get in, drop another $100 if you want to procure the ability to not wait in all the long lines, and you go about your day. If I get the FlashPass and buy some cheap food I've invested maybe $250 and 12 hours.

A visit to WDW, for most, is an entirely different animal. You are generally investing a week (maybe more, maybe less), staying in a hotel, buying airfare, possibly driving long distances, eating some nicer meals maybe, swimming in some pools, maybe seeing a show and, yes, attending some of the best, and most crowded, theme parks in the world. A family of four staying a week in cheaper accommodations is going to drop at least $4,000 give or take, but could spend as much as $10,000 or more. Larger families and up go the $$$. Is that just 'a visit to an amusement park'?

To me that is an important question that gets to the heart of the whole planning dilemma debate. Before I go on, yes.....there are those who will go anywhere and wing it. Drive across the U.S. without a plan, backpack across Europe, etc., etc. I applaud those adventurers if that is what works for them. However, I suspect they may be in the minority. For most of the rest of us, investing limited vacation time and precious resources, when you take a non-WDW vacation that cost $5,000 to $10,000 (for many a large % of their disposable income) or more don't you do some research and planning?

Heck, we are fortunate enough to have just booked a trip to Hawaii (Aulani, so not a complete break from Disney ). Between airline miles and vacation club points it won't be too much out of pocket for accommodations and airfare, but a trip like that for a family of 5 from NY is a $12,000 vacation, not including food and excursions/activities. Sure, we will spend a lot of relaxing beach time, but I'm quite certain I will spend a heck of a lot more time researching and planning things we are going to do on the islands, so that we get the most out of a once in a lifetime trip, than I've ever spent making ADRs and FP+ reservations. Wouldn't most people?

Given that many people invest quite a bit in a WDW vacation, many of those trips being 'once in a lifetimes', should WDW be any different? I don't think so, and that's why, for me, I don't get the 'Planning Backlash'. Is it really that onerous, unusual or unreasonable to have to spend a few hours planning and reserving stuff to do for something like that?

 

[BugsDaddy]

I don't think it should be considered unusual to have to plan out an extended trip to WDW. This was necessary way before FP, in any of its versions, was rolled out.

That being said, I can understand the frustration of local guests who are just trying to go to WDW for the day and the need to plan that out further than they normally would have had to.

 

[Jennasis]

It's all personal preference. End of story. Some like to plan and some don't.

I feel it is ridiculus to even be able to make appointments to ride a roller coaster. But this is what theme parks are now.

 

[JimmyV]

My first observation on the quote above relates to the amount of planning required to 'visit an amusement park'. I, for one, certainly don't consider a trip to WDW a 'visit to an amusement park'. Sure, for locals it may be, but is it really just that for the majority of the people on these boards?...

For me a visit to an amusement park is a day at Six Flags Great Adventure...

A visit to WDW, for most, is an entirely different animal. You are generally investing a week (maybe more, maybe less), staying in a hotel, buying airfare, possibly driving long distances, eating some nicer meals maybe, swimming in some pools, maybe seeing a show and, yes, attending some of the best, and most crowded, theme parks in the world.

Partially, yes. The WDW Resort is "different" once one factors in the Resorts, pools, Water Parks, restaurants, night life and overall maintenance and upkeep of the property. All of these things absolutely separate WDW from "an amusement park". But if we are being honest with ourselves, during the period of time that we are in the Magic Kingdom, or DHS, we are in an amusement park. Period. I know of no legitimate definition that makes "better theming", cleaner sidewalks, happier employees or the presence of Disney characters separating factors that differentiate Disney's parks from "amusement parks". That is exactly what they are. Nothing more and nothing less. The fact that many people (including probably a majority here) have been bitten by the Disney Bug and are obsessed with the place, returning over and over again does nothing to change the skeletal fact that the Magic Kingdom and DHS are amusement parks. At Six Flags, you strap yourself in to a seat on a high tower; the seats rise to a couple hundred feet above the surface; the ride releases and you plummet quickly toward the ground before the ride mechanism halts your descent and you head upwards again to do it all over again. Same thing happens at Tower of Terror. It's just that the Tower itself is so much cooler than the ride mechanism at Six Flags. But to suggest that somehow the really cool Hollywood Tower Hotel makes DHS something other than an amusement park is just silly. Same goes for Dumbo. Every Six Flags has a similar ride. Same with Space Mountain. Every amusement park has roller coasters. Placing the coaster in an enclosed building does not transform the Magic Kingdom into "an entirely different animal". The separation of Disney's parks from Busch Gardens and Universal grows smaller every day. We might like Disney's parks more. But to suggest that they are in a different category is self-evaluative and self-fulfilling.

The "entirely different animal" comes from, as you say, the week-long investment of time and money and the other entertainment opportunities that are presented outside the gates of the parks. So while a trip to WDW is far more than a trip to an amusement park, your day at the MK is nothing more and nothing less than a trip to an amusement park. So while prior posters such as the one you quoted are lamenting the fact that "going to an amusement park should not be so complicated", what they are referring to is their time at the parks themselves. I think it is absolutely fair to say that one's day from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. riding amusement rides should not be so complicated and should not require such extreme planning. But that is not the same thing as saying "a trip to WDW should not be so complicated or require such extreme planning." Whether the rest of the time spent at WDW doing things other than going to the parks requires such planning is open to debate and the subject of another topic.

 

[DisneyKidds]

That being said, I can understand the frustration of local guests who are just trying to go to WDW for the day and the need to plan that out further than they normally would have had to.

I agree with you there. The destination resort nature of WDW and how the system was implemented to serve that has absolutely made things worse for locals and cast members visiting the park.

 

[JanaDee]

Yes, people, another FP+ related cluster......um, discussion. If you don't like the noise, find another thread!

I lifted this from another thread and thought it might be interesting to discuss. No intention to pick on the person who said it, as it's indicative of what a lot of people say in the myriad of FP+ threads.



Yes, I recognize there are many other reasons why people might not like FP+, but there seem to be many people who dislike FP+ because it forces them to plan out their vacation and hold to a schedule.

My first observation on the quote above relates to the amount of planning required to 'visit an amusement park'. I, for one, certainly don't consider a trip to WDW a 'visit to an amusement park'. Sure, for locals it may be, but is it really just that for the majority of the people on these boards?

For me a visit to an amusement park is a day at Six Flags Great Adventure. You go in the morning, drop your $15 to park and $60 or whatever to get in, drop another $100 if you want to procure the ability to not wait in all the long lines, and you go about your day. If I get the FlashPass and buy some cheap food I've invested maybe $250 and 12 hours.

A visit to WDW, for most, is an entirely different animal. You are generally investing a week (maybe more, maybe less), staying in a hotel, buying airfare, possibly driving long distances, eating some nicer meals maybe, swimming in some pools, maybe seeing a show and, yes, attending some of the best, and most crowded, theme parks in the world. A family of four staying a week in cheaper accommodations is going to drop at least $4,000 give or take, but could spend as much as $10,000 or more. Larger families and up go the $$$. Is that just 'a visit to an amusement park'?

To me that is an important question that gets to the heart of the whole planning dilemma debate. Before I go on, yes.....there are those who will go anywhere and wing it. Drive across the U.S. without a plan, backpack across Europe, etc., etc. I applaud those adventurers if that is what works for them. However, I suspect they may be in the minority. For most of the rest of us, investing limited vacation time and precious resources, when you take a non-WDW vacation that cost $5,000 to $10,000 (for many a large % of their disposable income) or more don't you do some research and planning?

Heck, we are fortunate enough to have just booked a trip to Hawaii (Aulani, so not a complete break from Disney ). Between airline miles and vacation club points it won't be too much out of pocket for accommodations and airfare, but a trip like that for a family of 5 from NY is a $12,000 vacation, not including food and excursions/activities. Sure, we will spend a lot of relaxing beach time, but I'm quite certain I will spend a heck of a lot more time researching and planning things we are going to do on the islands, so that we get the most out of a once in a lifetime trip, than I've ever spent making ADRs and FP+ reservations. Wouldn't most people?

Given that many people invest quite a bit in a WDW vacation, many of those trips being 'once in a lifetimes', should WDW be any different? I don't think so, and that's why, for me, I don't get the 'Planning Backlash'. Is it really that onerous, unusual or unreasonable to have to spend a few hours planning and reserving stuff to do for something like that?

You don't mind the planning. Others do.

End of story.

 

[HollieS]

I love the planning. That is why I joined this group, why I've pored over blogs, why I have a power point presentation for the other adults on our trip.
Soooo I'm biased.

You don't have to plan everything out for Disney. You might not get your first choice restaurant or dinner time but that would have been true before advanced reservations.

The last time I was at Disney was pre- fastpass over Easter break. We waited in looooooooong lines and saw everything we wanted. You could still do standby line for everything if you didn't want to bother with FP+. The time spent planning FP+ reservations is instead spent waiting extra in line.

I view advanced planning like *me* waiting in line ahead of time so my whole family doesn't have to wait in line on vacation. If my family wants to change up the plans when we're there they'll have to accept that we'll have to wait longer and not accomplish as much.

 

[Mikie]

The "entirely different animal" comes from, as you say, the week-long investment of time and money and the other entertainment opportunities that are presented outside the gates of the parks. So while a trip to WDW is far more than a trip to an amusement park, your day at the MK is nothing more and nothing less than a trip to an amusement park. So while prior posters such as the one you quoted are lamenting the fact that "going to an amusement park should not be so complicated", what they are referring to is their time at the parks themselves. I think it is absolutely fair to say that one's day from 8:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. riding amusement rides should not be so complicated and should not require such extreme planning.

Aha! I was all set to agree 1000% with OP, and often am at a loss for understanding the planning backlash especially since it currently hinges on FP+ complaints. However, books, web sites, travel agencies, discussion boards, Touring Plans and color-coded spreadsheets far pre-date FP+ and I just. don't. get. it!

This helps, though. I often gets hung up on missing one little subtlety or detail of the other side's argument, and I guess this is a big piece. The dissatisfied may have planned the "trip" before, but the infringement into planning in-park time is a distinction that means little difference to me in the grand scheme, but was the "final straw" for someone else. I kind of get it now. . . A little.

 

[JimmyV]

...the infringement into planning in-park time is a distinction that means little difference to me in the grand scheme, but was the "final straw" for someone else. I kind of get it now. . . A little.

Exactly right! Everyone's approach is different. In the pre-FP+ days, I still had my days mapped out to the Nth degree to the point where my wife had to triple check to make sure that I had built in bathroom breaks into our schedule that looked something like:

Haunted Mansion: 10:12-10:26
Splash Mountain: 10:30-11:10
Thunder Mountain: 11:13-11:40

and so on.
So the "extra" planning that comes along with FP+ is of little consequence to me. But for the free-spirited people who like to "wing it", I can see the issue.

 

[WDWBlaze]

I think it has to do with the level of planning. First it was down to the week, then day, now hour. I use to plan to the haft day, but down to the hour months in advance is about at my personal limit.

For me, it took more time/effort planning a week at Disney then I had to for a trip a 3 week trip to Paris, London, and Cardiff. And my schedule is a lot more ridged at Disney, in part due to FP+.

 

[ArwenMarie]

It's really not a big deal in terms of time if you just go in and pick them once (ditto for ADRs).

When you start trying to optimize everything, that's when the planning gets time-consuming.

I think that first-time visitors are probably benefitting from FP+. It's encouraging them to do that bit of pre-planning that we all know can help make a trip better. It's a bit better than walking in and pulling out a park map.

I also think that people who go frequently don't mind as much. If you know you will be back this year (or ten times this year), it's not a big deal and you might appreciate the prescheduled FPs.

It's the people in the middle....who don't go frequently (1x a year or less) and who knew how to ride a lot of rides and enjoy a lot of rides in a day....those are the people who don't like FP+ from what I read here anyway.

Just my theory anyway. Planning is the eye of the beholder

The key now is to be willing to pre-plan as much as possible AND be flexible when things don't work out as you planned when you are actually there. This is really asking a lot of people!

 

[marissamayhem]

I don't really find that I'm planning any more or less than I used to. The problem I have with FP+ is the loss of flexibility and having to stick to a more stringent schedule.

I used to grab my fastpasses when they were available and use them whenever it was convenient. It meant I could enjoy my day a lot better. Now I end up sitting outside an attraction waiting for my window to open because I'm afraid to do anything else for fear of missing it. (I'm a worrier though so that's really my problem.) It's definitely messed with the ebb and flow of my touring and that stinks.

I do agree though that anyone expecting to do minimal planning is just asking for trouble. We probably all have stories of hearing other guests ask crazy questions to cast members that they never would have asked if they spent 5 minutes with google before they left.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

I don't really mind the planning. Before FP+, I did a lot of planning. I usually made us up a touring strategy that had just about every ride listed and when we were going to do it. It wasn't down to the minute or anything, but we certainly had a good idea of what we were going to ride when. My issue with FP+ is the inability to change my plans as easily as I once was.

In the past, I had my touring strategy and my dining reservations made. However, if I woke up one morning and wasn't feeling Magic Kingdom as I had originally planned, I could just go over to Epcot with no problem. If I had a dining reservation at Magic Kingdom, I could either cancel it or just make sure I left Epcot with enough time to get to my dining reservation. Now, if I decide I'm not feeling Magic Kingdom, I'm going to check to make sure I can now book FP+ for the rides I want at Epcot before I decide to change my plans.

In the past, I might have my touring strategy, but if I decided that I wanted to do Frontierland first rather than Tomorrowland as I had originally planned, no problem. Now, if I intend to do Tomorrowland first and have my FP+ reservations for rides and attractions in Frontierland and Adventureland, I'd be shooting myself in the foot if I went to those first because it would be difficult to ride Space Mountain later in the day without a FP+ reservation. So now, if I change my plans, I'm likely going to miss out on something as a result of changing my plans. That wasn't the case with FP.

So for me, planning is the same, but freedom to change my plans is gone.

 

[StirlingSilver83]

Personally I like the fact that I can plan every little detail of the vacation. I have a son on the spectrum so sticking to a schedule is important. He needs to know what he can expect during the day. I usually plan our vacations anyways. This just makes it more concrete. I usually go over the schedule with him the night before. He knows we have breakfast, lunch, and dinner adrs and then we have 3 scheduled fast passes. Then since my hubby hates planning out the entire vacation and likes some spontaneous activities...we usually have the DAS, which works great with the fast passes. Between having a concrete schedule and letting my son wait in another spot for rides it saves us from several potential meltdowns.

 

[nugov2]

I don't mind uber planning, I plan every trip we take and probably put the same effort in. My problem is WDW's clunky and inefficient way they do thing. You want me to book ADR's at 180+10 some of which impossible to change at 180+9 and book my FP's at 60 days and then you change your schedule/closing times after that...add to that a website that is glitchy at best and WDW can be an extremely frustrating vacation to plan. That is why people are ADR hoarders. I think it should be the same reservation time for everything so you know what is going on and don't have to play press your luck at the 60 day mark hoping for no whammies where your only available FP for rides you really want are on days you have ADR's in different parks. There are just too many moving parts at Disney that are totally reliant on the other part to have them open up at such different times. So that is my thing...open all reservation systems at the same time.

 

[anniemae]

It's all personal preference. End of story. Some like to plan and some don't.

I feel it is ridiculus to even be able to make appointments to ride a roller coaster. But this is what theme parks are now.

I agree with this. We are not total "winging it" people, but we prefer a much more relaxed vaca. I don't like being locked into a park months in advance, I would rather wake up and decide what park to go to, where to eat etc. You really can't do that if you have fp's for Soarin, TT and a ADR at Le Cellier. Then you are locked into Epcot.

It also seems you have to get to the park earlier and earlier to avoid lines. We like to sleep in, but it seems you really must get up and out the door asap. It is so much rushing from ride to ride, checking the app, following an itinerary, checking things off etc. We still love DW but just don't like that it has become the type of vaca where it feels like a job. I know some love to plan, but others prefer a more relaxed "lets wake up and see where the day takes us" approach. You can't really do that at Disney now, you can, but you will probably wind up waiting in long lines, confused, slugging through crowds etc. and that is no fun.

 

[mylittlebuttercup]

I originally didn't think I would like Fastpass+, but with our first trip with a little kid, I thought it was really great for us. I liked being able to change my Fastpasses on the fly as our schedule changed.

Yes, if you don't get a Fastpass, you might need to wait 90 minutes to ride 7DMT, but quite frankly, growing up before Fastpass I often had to wait 60 minutes for the roller coasters at MK midday because we went during crowded times. We waited because we wanted to, and there were plenty of other rides we could have gone on if we hadn't wanted a long wait. So I don't understand all the fuss about it. If you really want to go on something, you can always go stand by, and if you don't want to do that, skip it. Plus, other than Anna and Elsa, the parades, and 7DMT, I saw fastpasses available for pretty much everything else at some point in the day. Even Soarin' had late night fastpasses available, and I was there marathon weekend/Jersey week.

 

[mylittlebuttercup]

You can't really do that at Disney now, you can, but you will probably wind up waiting in long lines, confused, slugging through crowds etc. and that is no fun.

I disagree. There are so many experiences that consistently have waits of less than twenty minutes, and even certain popular rides like Splash Mountain often are that short too (especially when it's cold out.) I went at a fairly busy time on my last trip, and I totally could have winged most of what we did, other than 7DMT and Anna and Elsa because I wouldn't want to wait in those lines. Oh and eating at BOG definitely needed advanced planning, but I could have skipped that too.

 

[Mikie]

There are just too many moving parts at Disney that are totally reliant on the other part to have them open up at such different times. So that is my thing...open all reservation systems at the same time.

I totally agree with this. I plan, I don't mind FP+ (like it, in fact) and don't think its that big a deal to acclimate to a different type of planning system. BUT I agree that 180 (+10) for dining, 60 (+10) for Fastpass and ??? Whenever the heck I Disney feels like it for finalizing park hours & EMH is unnecessarily cumbersome.

 

[Dawnlight]

Planning worked well for me, though it did stress me out. I can't compare to pre-FP as the last time I was there was before all that.

I overheard some other guests complaining to people in their parties that they'd been in the park for 3 or 4 hours and didn't ride a single ride yet, and I could see how that could happen with no planning. Imagine coming in at 10am, after sleeping in a bit, coming to the first ride and seeing a 45 minute wait. Guests say, "Heck with that, there must be something shorter ahead." They get to the next attraction, 60 minute wait, the move on, next one is 90 minutes, so they decide to cut their losses and head back the first which is now at 90 too.

On the other hand, I woke my family at 5:15am, got to EMH rope drop, rode tons of rides before 10am with little to no wait, had FP kicking it when it started to get busy, got additional FP as we used others up, went to filler attractions, stayed late each day, and squeezed every last drop out of our time there. Was it tiring? Heck yeah, it took a week to recuperate from our vacation, but it was well worth it. I would have been ticked if I was a part of the above party, spent loads of money, and felt like we did nothing but walk among crowds of people.

A Disney vacation takes planning; it's the nature of the beast. Some like it, some don't. If the parks are going to be enjoyed to the fullest, it's imperative to plan.

We went at peak time over Christmas vacation with the expectation that we'd not fit a whole lot in, but we did everything we wanted (often more than once) and lots that we hadn't planned on. We could be somewhat spontaneous- character meet & greet, for example- while still implementing plans. Most attractions had less than a 20 minute wait for us due to our planning, many less than that, and only one took 30 min. (due to being in a long wheelchair line, with a FP, at TSMM)