The Official LOST Season Five *No Spoilers* Thread

[Amy]

I'm going to have to re-watch last night's episode, because I don't remember seeing Sun with Ben in the previews for next week. If that's correct, then I am NOT a happy camper! I want Sun to reunite with Jin, but that can't happen if Jin is in the 1970's and Sun is in present time.

Also, the folks on another forum are saying that Sayid is with Ben and Locke and the other flight 316 survivors and NOT with Jack/Kate/Hurley. Does anyone know? I don't remember seeing Sayid at all after the flash/crash of flight 316.

Ok, it makes "sense" for all of the Oceanic 6 to have "flashed" together from flight 316 and they all end up in the 1970's. After all, that's what Eloise Hawking kept saying - that they ALL had to go back and they had to re-create the flight as much as possible. But they ALL didn't go back...Aaron was missing. So did that "throw off" whatever power it was to get them all back on the island and that's why not all of them ended up in the 1970's?

I like a PP's theory that Ben is back on the island with the other 316 survivors because the island is done with him and he's not supposed to be there. But what about Locke? Why didn't he "flash" back to the 1970's with Jack et al? Could it be that Locke and Ben have unfinished business, and once that's taken care of then Locke will join the others?

Does any of this makes sense? I'm just thinking out loud here.

 

[harleyquinn]

When Cesear is in the hydra station (the file clearly has a six headed snake on it later on in the show when he talks to Locke) the Life mag has the date April 19,1954 - not sure if that means anything although it does have some of the "evil" numbers. Cesear breaks into the file cabinet and takes out a file. The papers he looks at are a map of the islands (you can make out the swan station marker) and another paper that seems to mark the movements of the island (with the arrows marked "space time" and "real time"). Seems to me as if he knew to go looking for these...he's got to be working for someone!

I read this on another site--it's not a spoiler since we've seen it...

The map they show is Daniel Farrady's!! And there is a journal page from Daniel's journal. There are screenshots out there if you want a better look.

ETA: here's a link:
http://lost.cubit.net/archives/2009/02/5x07---daniel-faradays-journal.php

 

[goofy's friends]

I definately think Ben knew Locke would come back to life, because of all the reference to Jesus and Thomas in the previous episode. And why else would he have met Jack at the funeral home and insisted that Locke was coming with them. He knows what he has to do and for some reason he had to kill Locke.

 

[1LuckyMom]

You will have to watch the preview slow to catch Sun with Ben, but they do show them twice together. Also, Sayid is shown, but we just see him, so its hard to tell where/when he is and who he's with.

 

[Camster0307]

You will have to watch the preview slow to catch Sun with Ben, but they do show them twice together. Also, Sayid is shown, but we just see him, so its hard to tell where/when he is and who he's with.

There is also a pic in Entertainment Weekly of Sun with Ben. Ben's face is all beaten up so I assume it's from when they return to the island.

 

[Jenvenza]

There is also a pic in Entertainment Weekly of Sun with Ben. Ben's face is all beaten up so I assume it's from when they return to the island.

No, Ben was beaten up before they got on the plane.

 

[Heidict]

Also, if Widmore was watching Tunisia because that is the return spot, how come he didn't see Ben return?

How does John know about Michael being on the freighter?

I think Ben was seen. Those guys showed up on a horse and he killed them. Maybe they were supposed to haul him in like they did with Locke?

And how did Locke know about Michael and the freigther? Maybe Ben told him?

 

[Kycha]

I had some more thought about last night's show; let me know what you guys think about this:

- and we're assuming since we saw that Jack, Kate and Hurley flashed back to the 1970's, but we haven't seen Sun - can we assume Sun flashed back with them since she was one of the Oceanic 6? But Locke and Ben didn't flash back, they seem to be on the island in the present time.

How can we be sure that Jin/Jack/Kate/Hurley flashed back to the 70's? Jin did roll up in the VW van wearing a Dharma uniform. But, didn't Hurley and friends get a VW van running while they were on the island in 2004? My thinking is that they could have flashed back to anytime after the 1970's. Even current time.

I'm thinking it's Whitmore.

First of all, he's a multi-millionaire, which already makes him evil in my book. His own daughter can't stand him; and Penny is such a sweetheart, if she doesn't like you, you must be bad. Plus I really do think his killings have been more cold-hearted than any of the ones Ben has been behind.

I think Ben has been as cold hearted as Widmore, if not more. He wouldn't give himself up to save his "daughter". And then, he told Keamy, while Keamy had a gun to Alex' head, that she meant nothing to him. That he took her from an insane woman and that Alex is just a pawn anyway. Then he refused to come out of the house and Keamy shot her.


I think of Ben and Widmore as spoiled children fighting over a coveted toy. They will fight till the bitter end to get what they want and they don't care who gets hurt in the meantime.

Me too so I'm REALLY excited about the Kate/Sawyer reunion! Please let it be a hot day, sun beating down, Sawyer needs to find a way cool off....!

I don't really like Kate so I'm not too fond of a reunion between the two. It should be interesting though. I'm pretty sure Sawyer has moved on to Juliet anyway.

And you know what else? What happened to Sayid - did he "flash to the past" with Jack/Kate/Hurley, or is he with the flight 316 survivors?

So we have Sun and Sayid unaccounted for after the 316 crash.

Based on Jin driving the Dharma van and coming upon Jack/Kate/Hurley, we know they "flashed" back to the 1970's.

Locke, Ben, Alana, the guy who spoke to Jack in the airport (Cesar??), and the other 316 survivors crashed in present-day. Cesar and Alana were shown looking through somebody's office, so we're assuming that 316 survivors crashed on the "other" island where the Others held Jack, Kate and Sawyer.

Frank Lapidus and "a woman" took off in one of those outrigger canoes. Where did they go? To "the" island?

Does the hydra station island have the same "magical" abilities as the other island? Would Locke have become "undead" on the hydra island?

 

[Kycha]

And how did Locke know about Michael and the freigther? Maybe Ben told him?

Locke was with Jin, Sawyer and Juliet before he climbed down the well. It is possible one of them told Locke about Michael before he left the island.

 

[debraW76]

I have been studying the timeline from the 50's to now trying to figure out what happened between Ben and Widmore. Here is what I came up with:

1950's we see Widmore on the island at age 17. Richard tells Locke that they have a process for selecting leaders that starts at an early age. I am assuming he was referring to Widmore since we know he later becomes their leader.

In last night’s episode he said he lead the island for 3 decades. This puts him leading from mid to late 50's to the 80's.

During the 1970's the Dharma initiative came to the island. We know there was strife between the two groups. Ben came to the island with the DI. Widmore was the leader of the others.

During the 80's the DI lost their funding from the Hanso Corporation.

Something happened in the 80's to cause Widmore to leave the island and he told Locke he left the same way he did. Meaning he turned the wheel and was thus left landing in Tunisia. Here is the question: Why did he leave.

I have a few theories:

1. Ben told Widmore to leave the island and somehow stop the funding. Thinking that if the DI quit receiving money then they would leave.

2. maybe Widmore thought that by moving the island he could time jump before DI came and keep them from finding it.

3. Widmore found out something that DI was going to do and had to move the island in order to stop it.

4. Ben somehow found a way to manipulate Jacob (remember J calling out "Help me" to Locke?). Since Jacob is the true supreme being of the island, if Ben found a way to manipulate (hold captive whatever) J. then he could manipulate W. into leaving saying 'Jacob wants you to...' Widmore found out that Ben was controlling J and tried to stop it by moving the island.
5. Ben told Widmore that more people were coming and he had to move the island in order to save it.

Then in 1992 the Purge came (led by Ben). Once everyone was dead Richard affirmed Ben as the leader. (Richard said these are your people - they are here to listen to you or something along those lines). No one seemed surprised by this leadership and everyone seemed to simply follow him without question. This makes me think that he was already pulling some strings somewhere. Especially since we know that their selection of leaders is a 'complicated process that starts at a very young age'. I’m thinking that since Widmore left the island they were without a true leader. Since their leader selection process is so complicated they were without a way to re-appoint a leader and Ben connived his way into the position leading up to the Purge.

What do you think?

 

[1LuckyMom]

Good catch. Jin would have had to tell them. Sawyer jumped out of the helicopter before it got to the freighter.

 

[Jenvenza]

I think Ben was seen. Those guys showed up on a horse and he killed them. Maybe they were supposed to haul him in like they did with Locke?

And how did Locke know about Michael and the freigther? Maybe Ben told him?

I didnt think about that!! That is very true!

How can we be sure that Jin/Jack/Kate/Hurley flashed back to the 70's? Jin did roll up in the VW van wearing a Dharma uniform. But, didn't Hurley and friends get a VW van running while they were on the island in 2004? My thinking is that they could have flashed back to anytime after the 1970's. Even current time.

I think Ben has been as cold hearted as Widmore, if not more. He wouldn't give himself up to save his "daughter". And then, he told Keamy, while Keamy had a gun to Alex' head, that she meant nothing to him. That he took her from an insane woman and that Alex is just a pawn anyway. Then he refused to come out of the house and Keamy shot her.


I think of Ben and Widmore as spoiled children fighting over a coveted toy. They will fight till the bitter end to get what they want and they don't care who gets hurt in the meantime.



I don't really like Kate so I'm not too fond of a reunion between the two. It should be interesting though. I'm pretty sure Sawyer has moved on to Juliet anyway.



Does the hydra station island have the same "magical" abilities as the other island? Would Locke have become "undead" on the hydra island?

I thought about that as soon as it happened, but thought I was probably wrong. But I think you may be on to something!

 

[karajeboo]

Widmore says to John that he was "exiled by him just as you were". This makes me think that he might be talking about Jacob or Christian, not Ben.

Also, if Widmore was watching Tunisia because that is the return spot, how come he didn't see Ben return?

Didn't Widmore specifically state that BEN exiled him from the island? And I think Widmore DID see Ben return. After all, he wasn't surprised when Ben strolled into his bedroom and told him he was going to kill Penny.

But they ALL didn't go back...Aaron was missing. So did that "throw off" whatever power it was to get them all back on the island and that's why not all of them ended up in the 1970's?

Does any of this makes sense? I'm just thinking out loud here.

Unless Kate is pregnant and her child would represent Aaron?

I definately think Ben knew Locke would come back to life, because of all the reference to Jesus and Thomas in the previous episode. And why else would he have met Jack at the funeral home and insisted that Locke was coming with them. He knows what he has to do and for some reason he had to kill Locke.

I don't know if he KNEW that John would come back to life, but he knew that they all needed to go back, and that included John. Plus, John would be in the coffin the same way that Christian was in the original flight.

I don't really like Kate so I'm not too fond of a reunion between the two. It should be interesting though. I'm pretty sure Sawyer has moved on to Juliet anyway.

It's not the Kate part of the reunion I'm looking forward to!

 

[LuvBaloo]

Eloise Hawkings is very strange. I think she is definitely playing both sides of the battle between Ben and Widemore.

I didn't think the pilot and the mystery woman were leaving the island; I thought they just wanted to get off that beach and away from everyone and the boat was the quickest means to do it. I mean, with Frank being the pilot, he knows there's no where to row to; I'm thinking he and Sun are just rowing to a different side of the island.

Not sure why she didn't disappear off the plane like Jack, Kate, and Hurley though. And where is Sayid?

I have a feeling that Sun is the woman with the pilot. I don't think the show is finished keeping her and Jin apart yet.

How can we be sure that Jin/Jack/Kate/Hurley flashed back to the 70's? Jin did roll up in the VW van wearing a Dharma uniform. But, didn't Hurley and friends get a VW van running while they were on the island in 2004? My thinking is that they could have flashed back to anytime after the 1970's. Even current time.

I think Ben has been as cold hearted as Widmore, if not more. He wouldn't give himself up to save his "daughter". And then, he told Keamy, while Keamy had a gun to Alex' head, that she meant nothing to him. That he took her from an insane woman and that Alex is just a pawn anyway. Then he refused to come out of the house and Keamy shot her.

I think its 70's time, because of the condition of the van. Hurley did get a van running, but it looked old and rusty like it had been sitting in the jungle for years. Jin's van looks in pristine condition.

I thought the part where Alex got shot actually showed Ben having emotions. He knew that it didn't matter if he came out or not, Keamy would kill Alex. He said she meant nothing, because her only value to Keamy was that Ben loved her. Once she was dead, Ben lost the only person that he had any true feelings for. They've shown he has feelings for Juliette, but those are more of ownership, than actually true emotions.

 

[debraW76]

Since they are in the 70's now that means that Widmore is still on the island and is their leader.

 

[debraW76]

Also,
If Widmore was their leader until the 80's then I think Penny was possibly born on the island. We dont know how old she is but she looks at least 30 to me. I still speculate that Eloise is Penny's mom and that Daniel Faraday is her brother.

 

[1LuckyMom]

Didn't Widmore specifically state that BEN exiled him from the island? And I think Widmore DID see Ben return. After all, he wasn't surprised when Ben strolled into his bedroom and told him he was going to kill Penny.

That's what got me thinking because when he said that he didn't say Ben's name. I quoted it the way it was said.

 

[Camster0307]

No, Ben was beaten up before they got on the plane.

I meant the picture that was shown was a recent one because Ben was already beaten up when they show him with Sun on the island - but I still don't think I'm saying this a clearly as I want.

 

[Kycha]

I thought the part where Alex got shot actually showed Ben having emotions. He knew that it didn't matter if he came out or not, Keamy would kill Alex. He said she meant nothing, because her only value to Keamy was that Ben loved her. Once she was dead, Ben lost the only person that he had any true feelings for. They've shown he has feelings for Juliette, but those are more of ownership, than actually true emotions.

I see what you are saying. But if he really loved Alex like a daughter, he would have moved heaven and earth to protect her. He would have given himself up to Keamy even if he thought Keamy would kill Alex anyway. Regardless of all that, Ben is a very cold hearted sob. He had no feelings about the people being blown up on the freighter. And when Jack asked him what would happen to the other passengers on flight 316, Ben said "Who cares?". Oh yeah. And he not only strangled Locke to death, he shot him in the gut and left him for dead in the jungle.

 

[Jenvenza]

I meant the picture that was shown was a recent one because Ben was already beaten up when they show him with Sun on the island - but I still don't think I'm saying this a clearly as I want.

I understand you now!