The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

[JARNJ3]

If you're asking me if I thought it was a defining moment in the campaign, then no. It did however show her speaking from her heart, as she did in NH, and when she does that, it is usually well recieved. Whether it will be any help in Texas or Ohio, I doubt it. But, if she continues to have these "moments" in a consistant genuine manner, then yes, it will help her numbers, I think. If it's back to the usual campaign trail speeches, then she won't have gained much. Just mho. And I still say I got a hint of her perhaps opening the exit door just a crack. Again, just my take, and imho.

Kind of hard to have "moments" - they sort of just have to happen - you know? And if you try to stage them - you're inevitably caught - and ridiculed..... Hard to have the moments "speechifying" - which there in a nutshell is the difference between Barack and Hillary. His speeches are sort of like sermons - in which people take in and contemplate. Hillary's are full of policies, objectives, what she wants the country to accomplish - etc - but she doesn't have the preacher in her - its a nice political speech (not a bad style, and goodness knows no where near as horrible as Bush or Cheney) but she is no Obama or Bill Clinton........

Ok - now I really am leaving for the night. Niters.

 

[DISUNC]

And that is right, I remember ROSIE talking about the hospital... all funded from private sources!

This just reminded me about Cher's charity "Operation Helmet". Which she not only funded with LOTS of her own $, she basically single handedly made sure all the troops had modified helmets in order to absorb shock from a bomb blasts.
She saved alot of lives!

W sends the troops off with half-*** equiptment, and CHER supplies the US Army with basic stuff!!!!

 

[chris1gill]

Kind of hard to have "moments" - they sort of just have to happen - you know? And if you try to stage them - you're inevitably caught - and ridiculed..... Hard to have the moments "speechifying" - which there in a nutshell is the difference between Barack and Hillary. His speeches are sort of like sermons - in which people take in and contemplate. Hillary's are full of policies, objectives, what she wants the country to accomplish - etc - but she doesn't have the preacher in her - its a nice political speech (not a bad style, and goodness knows no where near as horrible as Bush or Cheney) but she is no Obama or Bill Clinton........

Ok - now I really am leaving for the night. Niters.

Yeh, you thought you were going to bed

Disunc, I only VAGUELY recall the helmet story being supplied by citizens, I did not know Cher was behind that... I mean H*ll we send them over without armorized vehicles, what would make you think we'd give them basic, decent necessities? I think we can all agree this war (in Iraq) was a tragedy on about a hundred different levels.... We took our eyes off the real ball...

 

["Got Disney"]

Hi everyone,
I could only watch the first 20 minutes of the debate while finishing dinner and than had to go to the High school orientation for my son...man was that boring, such a great charter school and the speaker was terrible. I leaned over to my friends while she was giving her speech and laughed and said " Obama she's not"!!!.

sitting next to 2 of my best friends did make the time go by faster. Poor DH just sat there and stared into space

I do have the debate on my DVR but seems that it was the same old same old.

Glad to hear that at least it was civil. Sure was not sure what to expect at this point.

Well it's late and just got done helping all 3 kids study for there tests tomorrow, one has Math, another Chemistry and another History....they all better get an "A" also or else

so on that note I bid you adieu ( how ever you spell it) goodnight.

 

[DISUNC]

Yeh, you thought you were going to bed

Disunc, I only VAGUELY recall the helmet story being supplied by citizens, I did not know Cher was behind that... I mean H*ll we send them over without armorized vehicles, what would make you think we'd give them basic, decent necessities? I think we can all agree this war (in Iraq) was a tragedy on about a hundred different levels.... We took our eyes off the real ball...

When I first heard about it I tried to donate some $. The one and Only time $$$$ was sent back. They didnt need it, Cher took care of it all.

 

[DISUNC]

Just heard Hillary's Final speach. I dont think it was a Swan Song speach.

 

[Laura]

I will say that I'm happy to have been wrong about the tone, for the most part. Other than the one line - which she got loudly BOOED for !!! - she mostly took the high road. Oh, they both got in a few shots here and there. But she didn't attack the way I expected, and she should get credit for that!

I was worried it was going to be nastier. And yes, it got a little uncomfortable at one point. Good for the crowd for booing!


As for her last speech, it sounded like she left the debate on a high note, that's all I thought. It seemed more sincere than most of the rest of her answers. But boy oh boy, she would NOT let go of the health care issue!

 

[Fitswimmer]

I was worried it was going to be nastier. And yes, it got a little uncomfortable at one point. Good for the crowd for booing!


As for her last speech, it sounded like she left the debate on a high note, that's all I thought. It seemed more sincere than most of the rest of her answers. But boy oh boy, she would NOT let go of the health care issue!

I was working last night too, so I only caught the recap. However, if she stayed on the health care issue-Good for her!! That's what I hoped she would do is highlight the ISSUE differences between herself and Senator Obama-even though they are slight. Talking about the "stolen" language of the speeches and trying to paint an intelligent man as an empty suit isn't working.

DN called and we talked for about an hour about the debate after I got home-she's an unabashed Obama girl, but she was a big Hillary fan as a kid. She still has the reply to the letter she wrote to her in grammar school. She and I both fell almost sad that we have two such wonderful candidates in one election year, and sad that one of them will have to lose this contest.

 

[Laura]

I was working last night too, so I only caught the recap. However, if she stayed on the health care issue-Good for her!! That's what I hoped she would do is highlight the ISSUE differences between herself and Senator Obama-even though they are slight.

They had already highlighted their differences talking about the health care issue, but she wouldn't let the subject drop when asked a new question about being commander-in-chief. In my eyes, she seemed a bit stubborn on the subject, in such a way that I wonder how much she'd be willing to compromise on her plan, particularly the mandate that differs her plan from Obama's.

Talking about the "stolen" language of the speeches and trying to paint an intelligent man as an empty suit isn't working.

She tried that, and got booed. It didn't go over well. It was the only real misstep in the whole debate. They both covered their similarities and differences, and hopefully it will help those on the fence.

DN called and we talked for about an hour about the debate after I got home-she's an unabashed Obama girl, but she was a big Hillary fan as a kid. She still has the reply to the letter she wrote to her in grammar school. She and I both fell almost sad that we have two such wonderful candidates in one election year, and sad that one of them will have to lose this contest.

I totally understand that. I'm for Obama, but I like Clinton too. If she doesn't win the nomination, which woman will be next to step up to the plate? I hope it won't take too long.

 

[JARNJ3]

I totally understand that. I'm for Obama, but I like Clinton too. If she doesn't win the nomination, which woman will be next to step up to the plate? I hope it won't take too long.

That's the thing - I think we'll be in a drought - who is the next competent potential female candidate for president? (On our side lol)

That is one thick glass ceiling to break!!

 

[wvrevy]

I was working last night too, so I only caught the recap. However, if she stayed on the health care issue-Good for her!! That's what I hoped she would do is highlight the ISSUE differences between herself and Senator Obama-even though they are slight. Talking about the "stolen" language of the speeches and trying to paint an intelligent man as an empty suit isn't working.

DN called and we talked for about an hour about the debate after I got home-she's an unabashed Obama girl, but she was a big Hillary fan as a kid. She still has the reply to the letter she wrote to her in grammar school. She and I both fell almost sad that we have two such wonderful candidates in one election year, and sad that one of them will have to lose this contest.

For the record, I think Hillary, while coming off a bit shrill since she refused to drop it when pretty much everything had been said, probably won that part of the debate. I mean, let's face it...Health Care is her issue. She's been intimately involved with all aspects of that issue for the last 15 years. She should win any debate on the subject.

However, I think that was one of few - if not the only outright - wins she had last night. One of the MSNBC commentators said that for the first time, in her opinion, Barack really looked comfortable in the role of Commander in Chief, and that his answers to questions on Iraq and other foreign affairs were simply better than hers.

It will be interesting to watch the polls over the next week to see how things are going in Texas and Ohio. Historically throughout the campaign, the longer he's had to spend in a state, the better he has done in the state's primary / caucus. If that holds up, I honestly will not be surprised if the race never actually gets to Pennsylvania. Even Bill said on the campaign trail in (Houston? I think) that if she doesn't win both, she doesn't have a chance, and I agree with that with one caveat: she needs to win the delegate race at least 3-2. If she doesn't do that, then there is no need for her to continue, as she won't be able to catch up.

 

[wvrevy]

That's the thing - I think we'll be in a drought - who is the next competent potential female candidate for president? (On our side lol)

That is one thick glass ceiling to break!!

When you added the word "competent", you didn't need to add "on our side" at the end of it. It kinda went without saying.

I don't know that her defeat would necessarily lead to a drought. For one thing, if Obama should somehow lose in November, she could always run again in 2012, where she would enter as the overwhelming favorite again (and likely without a dynamic challenger other than John Edwards). If that were to happen, I think she'd win the nomination hands-down.

But if not Hillary, there are other females in state houses out there that could potentially make good candidates and good presidents.

 

[Laura]

For the record, I think Hillary, while coming off a bit shrill since she refused to drop it when pretty much everything had been said, probably won that part of the debate. I mean, let's face it...Health Care is her issue. She's been intimately involved with all aspects of that issue for the last 15 years. She should win any debate on the subject.

The fact that health care is her "baby" so to speak, also makes me wonder about her ability to compromise on the subject. It is very very important, but would she allow it to take over her administration? I doubt she would, but yesterday's debate had me wondering about that for the first time.

 

[crcormier]

 

[MerryPoppins]

Welcome back Craig!

 

[profdsny]

My friends, (ooops, bad start. Never mind )
Whether you like Hillary or not, take a look at this video with John Stewart music. I know a few of you know who he was. This is a great piece, and a fantastic add, whether you like her or not. Please enjoy. (this should be John Stewart, Hillary link. Hope it works)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN7QMLRRMp4

 

[NewJersey]

Well this is interesting - this is from an interview today with a Texas media outlet and note how she quickly downplays Texas as a state in which a Democrat can't win so she's focusing on getting MI and FL seated? I think it was only a week where she was up by double-digits singing the praises of TX.

There’s been a lot of talk about what your campaign would do should it get to the convention. Would you commit today to honoring the agreement made earlier not to seat the Michigan and Florida delegations?

Let’s talk about the agreement. The only agreement I entered into was not to campaign in Michigan and Florida. It had nothing to do with not seating the delegates. I think that’s an important distinction. I did not campaign--

The press seems to have missed the distinction if that’s the case. The talk is that you agreed not to seat the delegation.

That’s not the case at all. I signed an agreement not to campaign in Michigan and Florida. Now, the DNC made the determination that they would not seat the delegates, but I was not party to that. I think it’s important for the DNC to ask itself, Is this really in the best interest of our eventual nominee? We do not want to be disenfranchising Michigan and Florida. We have to try to carry both of those states. I’d love to carry Texas, but it’s usually not in the electoral calculation for the Democratic nominee. Florida and Michigan are. Therefore, the people of those two states disregarded adamantly the DNC’s decision that they would not seat the delegates. They came out and voted. If they had been influenced by the DNC, despite the fact that there was very little campaigning, if any, they would have stayed home. But they wanted their voices heard. More than 2 million people came out. I mean, it was record turnout for a primary. Florida, in particular, is sensitive to being disenfranchised because of what happened to them in the last elections. I have said that I would ask my delegates to vote to seat.

So your intention is to press this issue?

Yes, it is. Yes, it is. It’s in large measure because both the voters and elected officials in Michigan and Florida feel so strongly about this. Senator Bill Nelson, of Florida, early on in the process actually sued because he thinks it’s absurd on its face that 1.7 million Democrats who eventually voted would basically be disregarded, and I agree with him about that.

Yet, in October she talked about how the election in MI won't "count for anything" according to Tim Russert on meet the press with chuck schumer last sunday.

 

[NewJersey]

Welcome back Craig!

Wait, crcormier is a man??? I thought he was a woman since the beginning.

Sorry Craig, I'm terrible at this stuff.

 

[chris1gill]

Well this is interesting - this is from an interview today with a Texas media outlet and note how she quickly downplays Texas as a state in which a Democrat can't win so she's focusing on getting MI and FL seated? I think it was only a week where she was up by double-digits singing the praises of TX.



Yet, in October she talked about how the election in MI won't "count for anything" according to Tim Russert on meet the press with chuck schumer last sunday.

Every time you think there might be a human side (to Clinton) it seems to go away This really isn't very becoming I wish she wouldn't stoop to these politics... it's very sad... If we aren't worth our word, then what are we worth?

 

[JARNJ3]

When you added the word "competent", you didn't need to add "on our side" at the end of it. It kinda went without saying.

I don't know that her defeat would necessarily lead to a drought. For one thing, if Obama should somehow lose in November, she could always run again in 2012, where she would enter as the overwhelming favorite again (and likely without a dynamic challenger other than John Edwards). If that were to happen, I think she'd win the nomination hands-down.

But if not Hillary, there are other females in state houses out there that could potentially make good candidates and good presidents.

What female candidates are out there? I'm sure we can look them up - but they aren't readily at our fingertips (the collective our).

I've heard some say the governor from KS - but she gave a substandard Democratic response to the State of the Union.....

They've also got to want it too .........

I just have a feeling it will be a while until we see another woman run for president........ That's not to say its the only reason to vote for her - and I'll also predict - if she doesn't get in this time - she's out of there.....

The losing Dems seem to not run again - or if they do - they don't get in (see Kerry, Gore, Edwards as examples). And I don't blame them - its so exhausting just watching it!

The Republicans? - they are ok with giving their previous losers another chance (Dole, McCain, Bush Sr).....