The Liberal Thread #2 - No Debate Please

[MerryPoppins]

I just read something interesting. It's from a blog, so I'm NOT saying it's true. I'm wondering about it. I'd like an Obama supporter to tell me if it's true.

"According to my research, Obama has supported the Bush Administration in expanding NAFTA to include Peru.

Has there been any vote in the Senate on NAFTA in which Obama can make this claim? If you read his mailer closely, you'd notice that he doesn't think NAFTA, as a concept, can't be a boon to the economy. He believes that he needs to tinker with it first. The Clinton campaign has claimed that Obama has praised trade deals like NAFTA as early as 2004.

This mailer creates a misconception that Obama is against NAFTA. He isn't, he wants there to be a NAFTA, but with some modifications. Which is, ironically, the exact same position Clinton has maintained for several years."

 

[MassJester]

I think I remember the news story, but I thought the Peru deal was separate from NAFTA -- at least that is my memory. Besides, wouldn't Mexico and Canada have to agree to including Peru?

Charlie Rangel went on the record supporting the deal, if it's the same one I'm thinking of.

 

[Laura]

I just read something interesting. It's from a blog, so I'm NOT saying it's true. I'm wondering about it. I'd like an Obama supporter to tell me if it's true.

"According to my research, Obama has supported the Bush Administration in expanding NAFTA to include Peru.

Has there been any vote in the Senate on NAFTA in which Obama can make this claim? If you read his mailer closely, you'd notice that he doesn't think NAFTA, as a concept, can't be a boon to the economy. He believes that he needs to tinker with it first. The Clinton campaign has claimed that Obama has praised trade deals like NAFTA as early as 2004.

This mailer creates a misconception that Obama is against NAFTA. He isn't, he wants there to be a NAFTA, but with some modifications. Which is, ironically, the exact same position Clinton has maintained for several years."

Sorry, although I'm in Ohio, I really haven't paid much attention to or cared about either candidate's position on NAFTA. I couldn't tell you about Obama's position or Clinton's now or in the past. And as for the health care plans, I've always liked the fact that Obama's plan doesn't mandate coverage for everyone. I couldn't tell you whether some people could afford one over the other, unfortunately.

 

[crcormier]

Wait, crcormier is a man??? I thought he was a woman since the beginning.

Sorry Craig, I'm terrible at this stuff.

Oh dear. I've blown his cover.

Blowing my covers would probably prove I am in fact a man...

No worries, Tim, I've been wrong about plenty of posters myself.

Interesting question over on the Conservative Board....so I thought I'd ask over here too.

Anyone ever been exit polled?

I never have.

Nope.

 

[JARNJ3]

I think there's a lot of healing to be done by both sides. I guess I don't see how Hillary could suddenly be incensed by the mailers. I remembered that one of them was about NAFTA, but not the health care one.

Coming out from my giving up mode:

From what I read - she was handed the fliers this morning during a rope line greeting. The person was asking her if they were true...... She then reacted - probably went over well with her crowd of supporters - then held a press conference to discuss it further.

To me this is all part of politics - it amazes me how hands off she has to be in criticizing Obama - but its ok if he does it.

OK - going to back to "giving up" as I stated in a previous post

 

[Honu]

Did you hear why? The Obama camp sent out negative, inaccurate fliers about her in OH. Is she just supposed to shut up and take it because the "almightly Obama can do no wrong"?

She's entitled to explain her POV, but instead of throwing a hissy fit can't she do it in a way that doesn't hurt the party? I understand she's mad, but you have to think before speaking and her judgement on this was severely lacking. She is also not one to be casting stones over mailings. She's sent her fair share, including this load of crap. Which to me is just reprehensible.

It would be great if neither used these ads, but it's nothing new in politics and for her to respond this way is disgraceful.

 

[MerryPoppins]

The difference is that I don't see how she's hurting the party. You think she's giving the Republicans ideas? Trust me, they're doing their homework. They know what both candidates weak points are. Or is it that you think she's causing division within the party? I'm one of her supporters. I get upset with him when she brings up these issues, but I'll still suck up and vote for Obama if he gets the nomination. I'm certain Obama would be doing the same thing in Hillary's shoes.

 

[MassJester]

I'm actually annoyed at both candidates.

I'm a fan of Ronald Reagan's rule about not speaking ill of party members. Make your case, about yourself, and let thinking people decide what they like better.

What candidates do in the name of "drawing distinctions" and clarifying the record is nothing more than mud slinging. I have come accept that behavior from Republicans, but there should be no place for it within the party.

 

[wvrevy]

1 - It's hilarious to me that Hillary supporters are complaining about negative campaigning. After the nonsense she's been putting out there about plagiarism, she has ZERO room to talk.

2 - If their was an inaccurate quote, that's on Newsweek, not him.

3 - All that said, I'd prefer he stay completely positive instead of sinking to negative tactics. The simple truth is, he doesn't need to do that, because he's already got her beat.

 

["Got Disney"]

Did you hear why? The Obama camp sent out negative, inaccurate fliers about her in OH. Is she just supposed to shut up and take it because the "almightly Obama can do no wrong"?

I give up.

I agree it's about time in my opinion that she blew a gasket.

She was particularly incensed by a misquote from a newspaper, as well as her health care plan - its all here:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/23/693956.aspx

Obama's going to have a lot of healing to do with the Hillary crowd to get their votes.......

Got that right

Wait a minute...

Obama sends out mailings that aren't true, but if Hillary complains she's going negative? I just don't see that. She's just supposed to roll over and play dead no matter what?

What she's unhappy about is on her website, but I'm having trouble connecting right now to the msnbc link and to her website. I guess I'll go reboot. If anyone wants me to, I'll look for the page and link it here.

1 - It's hilarious to me that Hillary supporters are complaining about negative campaigning. After the nonsense she's been putting out there about plagiarism, she has ZERO room to talk.

2 - If their was an inaccurate quote, that's on Newsweek, not him.

3 - All that said, I'd prefer he stay completely positive instead of sinking to negative tactics. The simple truth is, he doesn't need to do that, because he's already got her beat.

It's just that when he does it it seems to be okay.

As of the remark I heard him say tonight I will no longer vote for him. He stated that she is basically acting like that because she is the champion of OLD politics not new like me .....

Well who the heck is Kennedy if not OLD politics ...that was it for me. I have caught his snide remarks like that before and let it ride and that last remark as he held his nose in the air was it.

This has nothing to do with the flyers but his attitude to the OLD remark.
So not that my vote will mean much but I will not go to the polls for him. He will have to convince me know that we are better off with him than McCain or no one.

sorry for coming here to vent but needed to make my point. I will not bash him in this thread but no promises on the Hillary thread. He will have to work real hard to get my vote back.

 

[Chloe'sMom]

I'm actually annoyed at both candidates.

I'm a fan of Ronald Reagan's rule about not speaking ill of party members. Make your case, about yourself, and let thinking people decide what they like better.

What candidates do in the name of "drawing distinctions" and clarifying the record is nothing more than mud slinging. I have come accept that behavior from Republicans, but there should be no place for it within the party.

I have to agree, and in my opinion she drew first blood. And she just keeps going.

~Amanda

 

[Chloe'sMom]

[QUOTE="Got Disney";2340068]
It's just that when he does it it seems to be okay.

As of the remark I heard him say tonight I will no longer vote for him. He stated that she is basically acting like that because she is the champion of OLD politics not new like me .....

Well who the heck is Kennedy if not OLD politics ...that was it for me. I have caught his snide remarks like that before and let it ride and that last remark as he held his nose in the air was it.

This has nothing to do with the flyers but his attitude to the OLD remark.
So not that my vote will mean much but I will not go to the polls for him. He will have to convince me know that we are better off with him than McCain or no one.

sorry for coming here to vent but needed to make my point. I will not bash him in this thread but no promises on the Hillary thread. He will have to work real hard to get my vote back.[/QUOTE]


Excuse my ignorance but what the hell does Kennedy have to do with his comment? Because Kennedy endorsed Obama does not mean that they agree 100% on everything, or that he will be a politician like Kennedy.

I've heard a lot of reasons for people wanting to vote against Obama - but this one takes the cake.

~Amanda

 

[lilyv]

I have to agree, and in my opinion she drew first blood. And she just keeps going.

~Amanda

I agree. These next few weeks are going to be tough. I'm not sure what her real goal is. I do wish her the best, and hope that reasonable unity will eventually prevail.

 

["Got Disney"]

Excuse my ignorance but what the hell does Kennedy have to do with his comment? Because Kennedy endorsed Obama does not mean that they agree 100% on everything, or that he will be a politician like Kennedy.

I've heard a lot of reasons for people wanting to vote against Obama - but this one takes the cake.

~Amanda

No he made a comment on how Hillary is OLD politics...he keeps talking about separating himself from OLD politics yet Kennedy is one of the oldest politicians of all. I don't mean OLD as in age I mean OLD as in style of politics.

Just making a point about how he wants to get away from those kind of people yet he is surrounding himself with all of them.

I have no problem with new politics. WE will not agree with this so we are better off stopping here. It will only cause us to get heated for what we disagree on, so I will say no more about it in this thread.

I am happy that you are so happy with your candidate of choice and that you believe so deeply about him. I do respect you for that. Please respect me for my feelings about him and my candidate.

My hard feelings are not with you.

 

[Charade]

Since there's nothing to watch on our side, your side is really interesting!



(but that'll all change soon enough...)

 

[chris1gill]

Interesting interview for those inclined:

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/Story?id=4235364&page=1

 

[Laura]

I'm actually annoyed at both candidates.

I'm a fan of Ronald Reagan's rule about not speaking ill of party members. Make your case, about yourself, and let thinking people decide what they like better.

What candidates do in the name of "drawing distinctions" and clarifying the record is nothing more than mud slinging. I have come accept that behavior from Republicans, but there should be no place for it within the party.

Hear hear!

 

[shortbun]

Since there's nothing to watch on our side, your side is really interesting!



(but that'll all change soon enough...)

Did you not watch Huckabee on SNL?

I also loved the pitch for Hillary!!

 

[MassJester]

Since there's nothing to watch on our side, your side is really interesting!



(but that'll all change soon enough...)

I think you have vastly under rated the comedic value of the conservative thread.

 

[jacksonsmom]

Wait a minute...

Obama sends out mailings that aren't true, but if Hillary complains she's going negative? I just don't see that. She's just supposed to roll over and play dead no matter what?

re.

Yep, she is, you know!!!
It's just sickening. The Obama camp and supporters would be shouting as loud as they can if Hillary did something like this.

Obama has gone way down with my support

Just goes to show that Obama really truly is just a politican like every one else --- No Change!