The horse is dead!

[minnie61650]

I am killing this thread.
The horse is now dead.

Why do people feel the need to game the system?
Why do guests feel they need to bend Disney's rules?
I have been reading these threads on the Dining Plan board shaking my head because I cannot understand all the hate and all the total disregard for rules. I am not talking about sharing food because no one (as far as I know) really knows for sure Disney's true thoughts or "rule" about sharing.
I'm talking about guests not wanting to follow Disney's clearly spelled out rules such as using a Child's credit for an adult or (other threads I have read about pool hopping and refillable mug abuse). Have we really become a nation that will not follow rules unless there is a punishment great enough to not make the effort worth while. Or is there an underlying hate for corporate Disney?Is it "I am paying $XXXX for my Disney vacation and the only way I will feel justified about all this money is if I can stretch a $38 meal plan and feed my family 2 sit down meals a day and buy at least $200 of food from the menu a day. "(Or bring my old refillable mugs back and be sure to drink 3-4 as much soda I normally would so I get my money's worth.")

It seems to me it has become a kind of game.
The mentality is "Disney costs more than I want to spend but if I can bend the rules to save a little money for my family than I am just getting even with Disney for charging so much in the first place."


How sad. I truly hope that is not is not the case for most people.
I am hoping as I read these boards it is only a small percentage. I am truly hoping my view of this whole rule bending, gaming the system kind of thing
is way off.

Disney has come a long way since I first started taking my young family in 1971.
I really think Disney is trying to make vacations more affordable for young families. First they added the mod hotels CBR in 1988 followed later with the values ASSp and ASMu in 1994 and now the family suites in 2006. The day passes became park hopper passes than LOS passes and now MYW passes.

Then Disney decided to make dining more affordable for families while still keeping a profit margarine for the corporation. What a wonderful idea!
Well, at least I thought it was wonderful and a real value since 1 sit down meal alone would usually cost about the price of the plan for a day. That means the snack and the CS meal were practically free.


Well, it was not long before some saw a loophole and starting taking advantage of it until I guess Disney's profit margarine is suffering because it seems to me Disney is taking steps to stop the abuse of DDP plan. Just like they needed to put in Bioscans to stop transfers of park tickets.

It just makes me so sad that Disney has to enforce their rules in order to make guests follow them.
Posting the rules is not enough anymore.

I read this on another thread;

"Life would be easier, nicer, less stressfull, and a heck of a lot cleaner if all people would respect others rights and the enviroment around them. Following the rules in place is the first step toward that goal. It's that simple, it really is!".

This is the way I have always tried to live my life.
I think if more people followed this advice Disney would no longer need to be an enforcer of rules and could concentrate on making Disney even more enjoyable and more affordable for families.

JMHO

 

[Julma]

I agree. I know someone who is taking their 10.5 year old as a 9 year old to save $$ on the passes. What is that! They are on a package including hotel and air. I hope it does not come back to bite them. I would think lying about information like that would be frowned apon by the FAA.

I do believe, what goes around, comes around and they will pay that extra money somewhere.

Go to Disney, enjoy what you can afford to and save for next time.

 

[melomouse]

Well put, Linda - I've admired your view from reading your posts for a long time now.

Yes, sad. Thanks for posting.

 

[goofy4tink]

Have to agree. The DDP is good enough that you shouldn't feel that you need to 'bend the rules' in order to get your money's worth. Sure, it's expensive going to WDW, but hey, that's the price of doing business, so to speak. If you have to cheat, or lie, then perhaps you shouldn't be going. It's a bad message to send our kids.
Pay for what you use, pay at the expected rate. It's much easier than spending so much time and effort in trying to figure a way to 'work the rules'.

 

[punkin]

Here we go again.

 

[Mom of 3]

When you lie about your kids ages then you're sending the message to your kids that it is okay to lie. I know it is tempting to save some money but I think the long term effects are bad.

 

[minnie61650]

Here we go again.

Yes, This time I hope everyone remains cilvil.

I truly am just trying to understand other people's point of view.

 

[jeannief]

I'm talking about guests not wanting to follow Disney's clearly spelled out rules such as using a Child's credit for an adult ...

Linda, I just wanted to point out that nowhere in the disney literature I received did it say that you couldn't use the credits as you want, although it does say that children must eat a child meal when offered. We routinely used 2 for breakfast and 2 for lunches (normally) and shared since my children a) don't like anything on the kids menus and b) there was just WAY too much food and had we all got meals we would have been throwing food away.
At TS restaurants where my children could order adult entrees we only ever ordered one for them to share, as it would have again been too much food.
For my family we may not do the DP next time simply because we would be limited to mainly buffets for TS since we have children with adult tastes!
Lying about your child's age, bringing a refillable mug back, etc. are completely different issues imo.
Hope this thread stays civil!

 

[3PRINCESSMOM]

I believe that we are definitely seeing the slide of values here in the good ol' USA. However, I do not believe the views shared here are necessarily the indicator. I believe many posts that turn into nasty debates are really people just playing devil's advocate with those Dis'ers that feel the need to pass judgement. Good for those who speak up against unethical behavior! However, I have read many posts that do not do that; instead they accuse and label people. They make it personal.

The true indicators are the economic ones...anytime we have rise in deficit, rise in inflation, rise in interest rates and decrease in local funding (=cut in many programs), we see a serious rise in violent crime and "family values" are subject to real jeopardy. Reflect on history; it is true, the economy truly dictates so much in our culture!

I am climbing down off the soap box now.

 

[bstnsprts]

Walt must be enjoying a big belly laugh in his grave right now. All these people worried about protecting Disney World from people "gaming the system." "Heck, I created Disney World by gaming the system and using phantom companies to buy up all the land from those unsuspecting rednecks in Florida." Illegal, no, gaming the system, yes. Now I'm not posting this to change any opinions, that's a personal choice. Just realize that Corporate Disney will also exploit any loophole available to them. We spend a little time trying to "game" DDP, Disney has a team of accountants trying to find tax loopholes and "game" tax laws. As another poster said, what goes around, comes around. Does it make it right, your choice, let's just realize that gaming is also done by the company that some people are so protective us.

 

[babynurse1]

I completely understand people trying to save money. But is the money we save worth the price of a society that feels "cheating the system" is ok? This goes bigger than Disney, and now I will climb off of my soap box.

 

[Tidus]

bstnsprts, Leave it to a fellow Rhode Islander to make a great statement! I totally agree!

 

[Hannahsmom]

=< Insert smilie beating dead horse here>=

 

[allflgirl]

Sorry, but off subject a little. I totally agree with bstnsprt post.

I'm a native FL and been around since Disney opened back in the early 70's. It was all the talk back then when some "not to be named" company was buying up all the land around Kissimmee. No one knew it was Disney and they got the land DIRT cheap and now pay taxes at an AGRICULTURAL rate (reported by WFLA - channel 8 Tampa). If you know your tax system, agricultural land is taxed at a HUGH discount off of commerical tax rate. Now who's playing the real game.

Nonetheless, I still love Disney and go often as it is a cheap vacation for me, as opposed to my ski vacations that costs thousands each year.

Disney is still making money off the DDP, otherwise I don't think they would offer it. It really helps out the families tremendously and gives a larger crowd the opportunities to eat at some of the more expensive places at Disney. I can't wait to use it this September! And no, I won't be abusing it, just using it to the fullest (Ohana's, Spoodles, Le Cellier, Wolf Gang Puck Cafe, etc.).

Walt must be enjoying a big belly laugh in his grave right now. All these people worried about protecting Disney World from people "gaming the system." "Heck, I created Disney World by gaming the system and using phantom companies to buy up all the land from those unsuspecting rednecks in Florida." Illegal, no, gaming the system, yes. Now I'm not posting this to change any opinions, that's a personal choice. Just realize that Corporate Disney will also exploit any loophole available to them. We spend a little time trying to "game" DDP, Disney has a team of accountants trying to find tax loopholes and "game" tax laws. As another poster said, what goes around, comes around. Does it make it right, your choice, let's just realize that gaming is also done by the company that some people are so protective us.

 

[minnie61650]

Walt must be enjoying a big belly laugh in his grave right now. All these people worried about protecting Disney World from people "gaming the system." "Heck, I created Disney World by gaming the system and using phantom companies to buy up all the land from those unsuspecting rednecks in Florida." Illegal, no, gaming the system, yes.

I understand Walt using phantom companies to buy up all the land when forming WDW.
I really think Walt was not trying to "game the system "and take unfair advantage of others but he was just trying to buy the land at a fair market value. Yes, the land in and around Orlando is much more valuable than it was in the 60's but that is mostly a result of WDW being located there.

Lake property has gone up in Michigan.
The value of our Lakefront home has more than doubled almost tripled since we bought it 12 years ago.
Did I take unfair advantage of the previous owner?
I thought I was paying market value at the time. I was not trying to take advantage of them.

JMHO

 

[Chilehead Too]

Walt must be enjoying a big belly laugh in his grave right now. All these people worried about protecting Disney World from people "gaming the system." "Heck, I created Disney World by gaming the system and using phantom companies to buy up all the land from those unsuspecting rednecks in Florida." Illegal, no, gaming the system, yes. Now I'm not posting this to change any opinions, that's a personal choice. Just realize that Corporate Disney will also exploit any loophole available to them. We spend a little time trying to "game" DDP, Disney has a team of accountants trying to find tax loopholes and "game" tax laws. As another poster said, what goes around, comes around. Does it make it right, your choice, let's just realize that gaming is also done by the company that some people are so protective us.

 

[Sammie]

Walt must be enjoying a big belly laugh in his grave right now. All these people worried about protecting Disney World from people "gaming the system." "Heck, I created Disney World by gaming the system and using phantom companies to buy up all the land from those unsuspecting rednecks in Florida." Illegal, no, gaming the system, yes. Now I'm not posting this to change any opinions, that's a personal choice. Just realize that Corporate Disney will also exploit any loophole available to them. We spend a little time trying to "game" DDP, Disney has a team of accountants trying to find tax loopholes and "game" tax laws. As another poster said, what goes around, comes around. Does it make it right, your choice, let's just realize that gaming is also done by the company that some people are so protective us.

Your credibility went out the door on the use of rednecks. What is the purpose of that? Everyone that lived in Florida at the time, is what a redneck. Talk about name calling.

I don't think everyone is worried about protecting Disney. I am postive they are capable of doing that themselves. I am concerned about the inconvenience, the lack of enjoyment during my vacation and my money, that is affected when people work a system by abusing it.

The cost of the fix for a loophole is passed on to me. It is also passed onto those that caused Disney to fix it. Which is what I find so amusing. People talk about using the plan to save money and everytime they do something that is against what Disney has planned, they are only going to end up costing themselves money too.

But maybe these are people who only go to Disney once, and go with that intention of they could care less about passing the cost onto anyone else.

I could care less about the plan and how it is used as long as that does not affect me. I care less if someone shares, and if you are going to quote that please get it right. I never said it was wrong, cheating, etc. I did say if Disney has a problem with it, I understand why.

I don't understand sharing outside of an immediate family but so what. If Disney is fine with it and it won't affect me, then go for it.

I do think Disney gets to make the rules on this and if that does not fit someone's lifestyle then simply don't get it. Don't try to change it and quit griping about it.

 

[copper0426]

Walt must be enjoying a big belly laugh in his grave right now. All these people worried about protecting Disney World from people "gaming the system." "Heck, I created Disney World by gaming the system and using phantom companies to buy up all the land from those unsuspecting rednecks in Florida." Illegal, no, gaming the system, yes. Now I'm not posting this to change any opinions, that's a personal choice. Just realize that Corporate Disney will also exploit any loophole available to them. We spend a little time trying to "game" DDP, Disney has a team of accountants trying to find tax loopholes and "game" tax laws. As another poster said, what goes around, comes around. Does it make it right, your choice, let's just realize that gaming is also done by the company that some people are so protective us.

The posters statement shows the incredible differance in attitude and morals all over America. There is in fact a very differant moral climate in America and some say it is due to economics as another poster said. The fact is ethics and morals should not subjective and made to fit any given situation you do what is right becouse it is right it is that simple. Chacter is what you do when others are not watching.
Getting the most for your money is an American triat and it should be applauded ,but paying what you think is fair is a choice you make so pay it and accept what you paid for or just say no I can find another way.
As far as the land comment, it is totally bogus the land was purchased at fair market value. It was done by phantom companies so that the price would stay fair for undeveloped swamp land and so that the parks would not be land locked by hangers on gain.

Tony

 

[3PRINCESSMOM]

Here we go again.

Boy, did you hit the nail on the head. Everyday this gets more and more unbelievable.

Can someone please explain the purpose of this, Dining Plan, forum? I am starting to look at it exclusively as a debate board. I have found only one recent thread that gave a valuable first hand report...WOW! Information sharing...what a novel idea! Pardon the sarcasm. I like to exchange ideas, even with those who disagree. However, this forum has not at all shown the spirit to which I had become accustomed to here on the Dis Boards. I am amazed!

 

[goofy4tink]

I'm sorry, but rules are rules. The land for WDW was bought fair and square, by completely acceptable methods, that are still in use today. For anyone to think that is okay to 'bend' the rules in order to get more for their money is just wrong. And, no, I am not talking about those who pay the $38, as an adult, for DDP, and then eat what would have cost $100 in food. That's just smart.I think it's terrific that so many people are getting to try out the more expensive restuarants...even though it makes it harder for me to get an ADR. But buying a child's DDP credit, knowing that you are going to try to 'get around' something is wrong. I think we're going to find that Disney starts tracking who is using what credits. It happened with the APs...parents were booking rooms, using an AP bought for their child, to get the AP discounted rate. Now....was it illegal? No, just a loophole. Can't do it anymore. I guess I'm fortunate (sort of anyway) that my dd, almost 13 now, gets an adult priced DDP...no question as to how we use it. I just can't be bothered trying to figure out how to 'bend' the rules in order to save a few hundred dollars. Others do...that's a personal choice. I figure I don't even want to know about it..I almost wish people would just do what they want to do, and keep quiet about it. They all seem to want 'justification' for what they are doing. Or validation from us, here on the boards.