The Bachelor-Brad Womack Take 2--Monday, Jan. 3 NO SPOILERS!

I actually like them both. Separately they are great people but they are both going thru major abandonment issues.

I don't think either of them are at fault. I think they both need time to heal and then, maybe after some full on revelations and growing up, get together with a significant other when they're complete people.

Neither are complete people now. If one were it would have a chance but with TWO, wow. Not good. :guilty:

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....wow....when did YOU get to be so smart?
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[ :teeth: ]
 
I think Brad picked the right girl because Emily is easier to back away from than Chantal. Emily has trouble seeing him all those weeks with the other girls and wants to make sure he will be a good father to her daughter whereas Chantal would have rolled with it and said "but I'm the one he wants to marry". I think that Chantal also scared him when she told him that she would be ready to marry him right then. I don't think Brad really wants to be married, he just likes the idea of it.
 
I think that Chantal also scared him when she told him that she would be ready to marry him right then. I don't think Brad really wants to be married, he just likes the idea of it.
He did seem to want to have the wedding with Emily during the ATFR show. I can't really tell what his true motivation was in attempting to set that up.
 

I think they fell in lust, NOT in love, and now they're trying to play the roles they are expected to play.

Again, this is my take, I think they each fell in love with the image they had of each other.


The current therapist he has hasn't helped him much :scared: I think the "bear" needs a major intervention.:rolleyes1

All that therapy and he is even WORSE than he was before. He is inarticulate and completely clueless. The last date with Emily was just like the last date with Ashley -- he somehow invented conflict where there was none. Maybe it was the editing but I was just wondering what the hell his problem was! And then him getting bent out of shape because Chantal was upset about getting dumped. How DARE she!! :rolleyes:

A so called therapist telling a narcissist to think of himself only is like giving a drug addict crack cocaine. :sad2:

I have a feeling they never delved into Brad's anger issues or they would have uncovered childhood stuff. Rage issues usually stem from there. Rage is never just about the one issue directly in front of them. The fact that his tantrums come up when it is about something he can't get from the women behaving the way he wants, shows an emotional immaturity, probably from being stunted in his childhood which caused the wound. People get emotionally stuck at the age they got wounded or traumatized.


Chantal said over and over if he knew she wasn't it, let her go. He knew and strung her along. I know someone was going to be strung along. There had to be someone else to choose from. But I believe Chantal loved him probably more than anyone else there.

Yes, I believe Chantal loved him more than anyone else there. But, as I said in another post, his woundedness doesn't want to be healed by whats attainable and available, he wants the the unattainable.

When people are whole and complete within themselves, as Robins said, they operate from a healthy place. They have choices. They make healthy choices.

When people have unhealed wounds, they often operate, unconsciously, in ways that will heal their wounds and stop the bleeding. Chantal may have given him all the love he could ever want. She was a sure bet. But, his woundedness is his self esteem. He picked the woman he thought could stop his bleeding.

Even shortbun said it:
I think it's low class. This is not Real World and yet, Brad has no concept of why a woman would be upset after he jilted her. "Chantal, what's wrong?" He's immature and like I said, classless.

Guys should act and look like they have some integrity, humanity, style.

Emily is classy, poised, graceful, beautiful, monied, stylish, and has a social standing in the NASCAR world and maybe even in her community, in Charlotte, N.C. Her daughter is the heir to the NASCAR dynasty.

A few weeks ago, I said how Brad would be cowed to live in her world. He'd be too insecure. He actually was impotent sitting in her living room - in her world.

Info I was missing until ATFR was that: he doesn't want to join her in her world. She made it clear, he wants her to join him in Austin. (She & her daughter probably have enough money to be bi-coastal and they can live in both places so they can still be close to the grandparents. So that shouldn't be the problem it is.)

Brad needs her to give up her life and lifestyle in Charlotte for him. It's the Uptown Girl fantasy, you know Billy Joel's song Uptown Girl? The girl from the other side of the railroad tracks. Humphrey Bogart would probably say, "A dame like that, would give it all up for an average Joe, like me? Maybe there's something good about me, after all."

A classy girl like that, to give up all that for her guy, in essence, bringing all that "integrity, humanity, style" and class to his world, for a narcissist, it would be a penultimate win.

He needs to learn integrity, humanity, style come from within. Not from his partner.
 
As far as Brad's temper goes, we don't really have the specifics of it. It seems like nowadays, a man is considered to have a temper whenever he doesn't let his woman get her way.. I'd be interested to actually find out.

If he's getting mad because Emily won't move, I'd be furious as well. She told him on the show she would move and that played a major role in the decision. Had he known she wouldn't actually go through with it, he never would have picked. He's got a major gripe!!
 
Via People magazine;

The pair confess that the months following their storied TV courtship have been difficult. When The Bachelor began airing in January, Maynard, 25, saw that her fiancé was being, well, a bachelor on the show by wooing other women on their respective dates. Despite Womack's assurances that she was the woman of his dreams, Maynard struggled as she watched the season play out.


And there you have it, lol. She didn't just poke the bear...mama bear's claws came OUT and he's in the doghouse! Brad was quiet on AFTR because he was damned if he did, damned if he didn't. If he loves her he's got some majah kissing up to do.
 
Also, the fact that she sabotages her relationships has nothing to do with putting her ex on a pedestal or Ricci. Emily is a beautifully insecure person who needs reassurance to build up her self esteem.

Despite Womack's assurances that she was the woman of his dreams, Maynard struggled as she watched the season play out.

Emily sabotages her relationship because of abandonment issues, not self esteem. The distinction is is important in how she needs to be reassured and why. She needs reassurance and certainty that he will always be there. She's afraid that if she loves deeply again, allows herself to be that vulnerable, that she will be blind sided and lose him again for some reason, or he will be taken away. That's slightly different than saying, "You are enough for me. You're the only one I want."

She'd rather sabotage and have the advance certainty of making someone leave than to ever be blind sided by getting another phone call that her love is not coming back.

IMO, when she kept asking Brad HOW he would be there for Ricki, like during a 3am trip to the E.R., she needed reassurance that he was in it for the long haul. She even said it many times. She tends to be unemotional and hard to read, so she wasn't giving him much info on what and HOW she needed that reassurance. He said about 3 times he'd be there. But, it obviously wasn't enough for her.

This is key. This is where the train wreck happens in most relationships. The mis-communication when people aren't meeting each other's needs, and don't know how to. Brad thought & felt that telling her three times should have been enough. He then got insulted and felt invalidated because it wasn't enough. This touched his wound. She needed to let him know she wasn't invalidating him. She just needed more reassurance than he was giving her or to do it in a different way, because repeating it 3 times wasn't working. (This isn't about making Brad wrong.)

Emily, if she's an audio person, might have needed to hear it a ten times in order for it to be enough. If he had just started making up a whole bunch of scenarios of how he'd be there every which way possible, it might have been enough.

If she's a visual person, he might only needed to sit right in front of her, look her clear and steadily, with an unwavering, unflinching gaze, and all the certainty in the world, and saying it once might have been enough. Instead, what she saw, was Brad physically pull back, get all fidgety, look down, away, every where but in her eyes, get all sweaty, and even want to walk away and distance himself from her. That's not reassuring.

If she needed emotional reassurance, she might have needed to be hugged like Chantal. Instead, he emotionally pulled away and got angry.

Brad knew exactly how to reassure Chantal. He'd say, "Aw baby!" then put his arm around her. She fall against his shoulder and sob it out, finally feeling reassured. He even did that during the ATFR!!!

Brad shuts the situation down with anger to get control of the situation, or he withdrawals to get out of the situation. We've seen him do this with both Emily & Ashley.

As you and DonDraper said, anger isn't a bad emotion. It is actually very healthy when communicated & expressed in healthy ways, not becoming abusive at one another, or becoming rage or violence. It's a signal when one is hurt, been let down, boundaries violated, or when one has been betrayed. But, when Brad uses anger to control the situation, to stop communication or to withdrawal, then nothing gets resolved. We don't know what Emily does when she gets angry. It would be interesting to have seen a fight of theirs. It probably makes him feel not enough. It seems they are stuck at an impasse here.

The man that can give Emily the reassurance she needs, in the way she needs it, will ultimately be the one that wins her heart. She won't need to sabotage and run them off into a ditch. However, she needs healing in this area. This is one of her wounds she is bleeding from. Right, now, she may never find a man who can reassure her enough.


Emily's pedestal issue with her deceased fiance is different. It is from the fact that he didn't live long enough for them to have a full, long term relationship with the bumps and scrapes. Heck, they might have even broken up. It's easy to idealize and put someone on a pedestal after they are gone prematurely. Ricky was probably larger than life to her. That's hard for any other man to live up to. Instead of finding another man she can put on a pedestal, Emily needs to take Ricky off the pedestal and put him away.

We also don't know what her relationship with her dad was like and when he divorced her mom, and how that plays into her abandonment and pedestal issues. She might have put him on a pedestal, too.
 
Imzadi:
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Kimmar:
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Don: Dig a little deeper, man. There's a lot more involved in this than just a boy/girl connection. They BOTH have issues, and a "reality" TV show just blew them out of proportion. NO WOMAN mentions a temper unless it's a true issue. A temper is not just a disagreement or a misunderstanding, not even just an argument. A TEMPER, as she pointed out, is an rage problem. And no matter who "poked" the bear, it's the responsibilty of the "bear" to control his actions. That's what an adult does.

And it's a MOTHER'S job to protect her cub from a bear.
 
Yep, Robin and Imzadi, I think we have it nailed.

It is not necessarily self esteem with Emily... The abandonment issues are paramount.

Now, with Brad, seeing how he was rejected by his father... This is a man who does have underlying self-esteem issues...

The only thing that I am not quite certain of is the narcissism thing.
(That is one issue that I have seen personally ;) )
I think that there can be a difference between a person with true Narcissitic Personality Disorder, and a person who is just so weakened by their personal issues that there just is not enough left there to do anything but 'protect ones self'.

Here is my deal about Brad loving Emily or falling in lust.....
I don't see 'lust', at all.
Emily is the true 'beautiful and gorgeous', 'poised', 'southern', woman of his dreams.... And yes, it is clear that in many ways ( she is too good for him... she never professed any emotional love for him ) she is the 'unattainable'.

Yes, I feel that Chantal truly loved brad, and they had a much more real relationship... And, with Emily remaining so unattainable... YES, even though he couldn't say it to Chantal, he DID have deep feelings for her.... He was not 'stringing her along'. I think the whole way, since Emily was unattainable, CHANTAL was 'the one', while Emily was 'the dream'....

It was very obvious that when his family met Emily, and just L O V E D here... and she began to express a bit her feelings... THAT was the moment when Brad began to see her as the one... THAT was the moment when Chantal became second best.

But, sadly, I think that no matter HOW much Brad loves Emily... those of us left on this thread here are right... There are just too many heavy issues for the relationship to make it in a positive way.
 
Here is my deal about Brad loving Emily or falling in lust.....
I don't see 'lust', at all.
Emily is the true 'beautiful and gorgeous', 'poised', 'southern', woman of his dreams.... And yes, it is clear that in many ways ( she is too good for him... she never professed any emotional love for him ) she is the 'unattainable'.

Yes, I feel that Chantal truly loved brad, and they had a much more real relationship... And, with Emily remaining so unattainable... YES, even though he couldn't say it to Chantal, he DID have deep feelings for her.... He was not 'stringing her along'. I think the whole way, since Emily was unattainable, CHANTAL was 'the one', while Emily was 'the dream'....

It was very obvious that when his family met Emily, and just L O V E D here... and she began to express a bit her feelings... THAT was the moment when Brad began to see her as the one... THAT was the moment when Chantal became second best.
I think you are 100% correct in your assessment. Emily played things pretty close to the vest and when she finally let Brad know that she was interested he jumped at the chance.

I'm trying to remember ... didn't Brad say to the camera at the end of his date with Chantel that he couldn't wait to ask her to marry him? Or am I just remembering something wrong?
 
I think you are 100% correct in your assessment. Emily played things pretty close to the vest and when she finally let Brad know that she was interested he jumped at the chance.

I'm trying to remember ... didn't Brad say to the camera at the end of his date with Chantel that he couldn't wait to ask her to marry him? Or am I just remembering something wrong?

I think I heard that too. And all the comments about chemistry and how much fun she is. If he truly wants to go on all those adventures, why did he pick Emily? He caved in to what is mother wanted.
 
Wow, you guys are good!!

I'm late chiming in with my thoughts about Monday night. I always thought Chantal would be the one. Like some of you have said, that seemed like a "real" relationship. With Emily, Brad looks so uncomfortable. She's the unattainable dream, while Chantal is real life. And I also think I remember him saying he couldn't wait to ask her to marry him.

But Emily did show more personality in her one hour on ATFR than on the whole season prior to that. :laughing: They did seem much more compatible on ATFR than previously to me, even with the comments about his temper, etc. And Emily made me chuckle when she said if she'd got to go on those zip-line, swim with sharks, etc, dates, "I'd be fun, too!" I wondered why Emily's dates were always so mellow. Who chooses who goes on what date? Did Brad think Emily was too fragile for some of the fun things he did with Chantal?

I think I heard that too. And all the comments about chemistry and how much fun she is. If he truly wants to go on all those adventures, why did he pick Emily? He caved in to what is mother wanted.
::yes:: Yup, and his brothers/SILs. I thought it was awful when the SILs were talking about Emily fitting in better because she already had a child. This wasn't about finding a friend for you to socialize with over a playdate, this was supposed to be about Brad finding a wife. Not that Brad is any prize, but geeze, think about what's best for him, not what's best for you!
 
:lmao: Just when I think I have spent way too much energy on these two and I am done, you gals suck me back in. . . Really fantastic insights here. :thumbsup2


I have had alot of coaching and self development, and I saw alot of that, too

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I do think that I see Emily acting the "Princess" though. She was right to challenge him about knowing how to be a father - I think she saw that he wasn't totally comfortable at her home and wanted him to really think about it. That being said, she should have known he would "test the waters" with other girls and if she didn't want to be upset, she shouldn't have watched the show. She chose to find something to be mad about, and then give him a hard time about it. True "Drama Jockey" style.

She is used to her life being all about tragedy and needs help recognizing that. She will continue to find something to be upset about until she sees this. I am wondering where her family is? Is that part of the abandonment issue? :confused3 Like I said, they are both too needy to be married yet.

I just saw a clip of them on ET, and last nite I thought she was being quite the southern belle. But, yes, "Princess" princess: fits, too. :laughing:

Great insight about her identity as a tragic figure and the emotional patterns she keeps replaying about it. :thumbsup2

I wondered too, where her family was. :scratchin After the plane crash and finding out she was pregnant, she didn't move home to be with her mother. (At least not that we know of.) I would have, if I was 18 and pregnant, alone. She stayed in Charlotte and is near her would-have-been in-laws.


Here is my deal about Brad loving Emily or falling in lust.....
I don't see 'lust', at all.
Emily is the true 'beautiful and gorgeous', 'poised', 'southern', woman of his dreams.... And yes, it is clear that in many ways ( she is too good for him... she never professed any emotional love for him ) she is the 'unattainable'.

Yes, I feel that Chantal truly loved brad, and they had a much more real relationship... And, with Emily remaining so unattainable... YES, even though he couldn't say it to Chantal, he DID have deep feelings for her.... He was not 'stringing her along'. I think the whole way, since Emily was unattainable, CHANTAL was 'the one', while Emily was 'the dream'....

:worship: :worship: :worship:
What an absolutely awesome insight!

It was very obvious that when his family met Emily, and just L O V E D here... and she began to express a bit her feelings... THAT was the moment when Brad began to see her as the one... THAT was the moment when Chantal became second best.

Dang! I didn't pay enough attention to Brad during his family's visit.
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Someone else made a comment too about what Brad's brother said to him and how he reacted. It's so cool to hear what you guys saw that I missed.


I think I heard that too. And all the comments about chemistry and how much fun she is. If he truly wants to go on all those adventures, why did he pick Emily? He caved in to what is mother wanted.

He always kept saying to Chantal, or about her, that he feels most himself with her. That he could just relax and just be with her. :(

With Emily, he talks about how she makes him a better person.

Again, that wound about not being enough. Dang! I forgot how his family would also play a key part in his woundedness about not being enough. I knew he had father issues, but I didn't pay attention to the rest of the family dynamic as he didn't mention them very much. He also picked Emily to measure up for his family. . . :scratchin :idea: Wow! Just wow!

Of course.
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The family wounds always bleed the most. Sometimes they are holes that can never be filled. People will twist themselves inside out just to fill them. The need for family approval and to be thought of as enough by them is one of the basic core level issues.

That's too bad. He fits so much better with Chantal. :( I don't think she would have pushed his temper button the way Emily does. She would have tried to give him what he wants.


I love these TV threads. :dance3: It's so cool to share what we all bring to the table. :woohoo: Even opposing views make me think, "I didn't see it that way, but I can see now how someone else would get that." :scratchin
 
Emily sabotages her relationship because of abandonment issues, not self esteem. The distinction is is important in how she needs to be reassured and why. She needs reassurance and certainty that he will always be there. She's afraid that if she loves deeply again, allows herself to be that vulnerable, that she will be blind sided and lose him again for some reason, or he will be taken away. That's slightly different than saying, "You are enough for me. You're the only one I want."

She'd rather sabotage and have the advance certainty of making someone leave than to ever be blind sided by getting another phone call that her love is not coming back.

IMO, when she kept asking Brad HOW he would be there for Ricki, like during a 3am trip to the E.R., she needed reassurance that he was in it for the long haul. She even said it many times. She tends to be unemotional and hard to read, so she wasn't giving him much info on what and HOW she needed that reassurance. He said about 3 times he'd be there. But, it obviously wasn't enough for her.

This is key. This is where the train wreck happens in most relationships. The mis-communication when people aren't meeting each other's needs, and don't know how to. Brad thought & felt that telling her three times should have been enough. He then got insulted and felt invalidated because it wasn't enough. This touched his wound. She needed to let him know she wasn't invalidating him. She just needed more reassurance than he was giving her or to do it in a different way, because repeating it 3 times wasn't working. (This isn't about making Brad wrong.)

Emily, if she's an audio person, might have needed to hear it a ten times in order for it to be enough. If he had just started making up a whole bunch of scenarios of how he'd be there every which way possible, it might have been enough.

If she's a visual person, he might only needed to sit right in front of her, look her clear and steadily, with an unwavering, unflinching gaze, and all the certainty in the world, and saying it once might have been enough. Instead, what she saw, was Brad physically pull back, get all fidgety, look down, away, every where but in her eyes, get all sweaty, and even want to walk away and distance himself from her. That's not reassuring.

If she needed emotional reassurance, she might have needed to be hugged like Chantal. Instead, he emotionally pulled away and got angry.

Brad knew exactly how to reassure Chantal. He'd say, "Aw baby!" then put his arm around her. She fall against his shoulder and sob it out, finally feeling reassured. He even did that during the ATFR!!!

Brad shuts the situation down with anger to get control of the situation, or he withdrawals to get out of the situation. We've seen him do this with both Emily & Ashley.

As you and DonDraper said, anger isn't a bad emotion. It is actually very healthy when communicated & expressed in healthy ways, not becoming abusive at one another, or becoming rage or violence. It's a signal when one is hurt, been let down, boundaries violated, or when one has been betrayed. But, when Brad uses anger to control the situation, to stop communication or to withdrawal, then nothing gets resolved. We don't know what Emily does when she gets angry. It would be interesting to have seen a fight of theirs. It probably makes him feel not enough. It seems they are stuck at an impasse here.

The man that can give Emily the reassurance she needs, in the way she needs it, will ultimately be the one that wins her heart. She won't need to sabotage and run them off into a ditch. However, she needs healing in this area. This is one of her wounds she is bleeding from. Right, now, she may never find a man who can reassure her enough.


Emily's pedestal issue with her deceased fiance is different. It is from the fact that he didn't live long enough for them to have a full, long term relationship with the bumps and scrapes. Heck, they might have even broken up. It's easy to idealize and put someone on a pedestal after they are gone prematurely. Ricky was probably larger than life to her. That's hard for any other man to live up to. Instead of finding another man she can put on a pedestal, Emily needs to take Ricky off the pedestal and put him away.

We also don't know what her relationship with her dad was like and when he divorced her mom, and how that plays into her abandonment and pedestal issues. She might have put him on a pedestal, too.

:scared1:




































....wanna finish my trippie??????
 
....bottom line: He didn't pick Chantal because he didn't want someone who could KICK HIS *SS....
 
:scared1:

....wanna finish my trippie??????

EXCUSE ME!!!! You threatened to sick NJ terror turkeys on me once. No waaaay am I getting involved with YOUR family dynamic on your trip! :scared1: :scared1: :scared1:





Besides, wait till I PM you to invite your son to do a Board Break. :teeth:
We have NY/NJ Tony Robbins networking meetings, and once in a while we teach people to break wooden boards their our bare hands, Karate Kid, style. :teeth: Wax on, Wax off!

(You think I'm kidding you. Ha! :teeth: )
 















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