Testing refusal rates in your district

[Ceila]

Somebody's blog about somebody elses opinion and people commenting is no different than the info being shared here on the DIS.
Personally I don't care who led the movement, and I don't care that the NYSUT endores it or uses robo calls to urge parents to opt out. I found when I spoke to parents who opted their kid out they couldn't give me an answer to why except "everyone else is doing it". They aren't pushing some union agenda, they seem to not have a clue why they are doing it except to jump on the cause du jour bandwagon. I don't think that is much better LOL.


IN the end, it doesn't really matter how some blogger or their readers feel about some guy in Wisconsin opinion. All that matters is if the state (in my case NY) continues with its plan to use these test scores the way Cuomo has proposed. I've yet to see where they aren't, and have only read that they still plan too use the data. Only time will tell whether this had an impact or it just fizzled out and next year will be business as usual with these tests.

I think we can all agree that neither support nor endorsement of this kind of testing without understanding it is mindless bandwagon jumping. But if you are reading about this topic, I'm sure you have come across statements by parents who opt out and are well-informed, despite talking to some who are just following the herd.

I do believe that the issue is far from over. When the scores do finally come out, my personal opinion is that there will be a greater outcry by parents in those areas where the scores affect their child's placement and by educators where the scores affect teacher evaluations and district resources.

 

[nugov2]

Here's a great teacher quote

Either way, many teachers may be scored with the local, more accurate measure, while I am evaluated on a test designed for failure? That would be penalizing the teachers who met the participation rate. I guess next year I should make sure the kids are wetting their pants in fear of the test.

This is what I mean about teachers using the kids as pawns to push their agenda. Gross.

 

[Tinijocaro]

I think we can all agree that neither support nor endorsement of this kind of testing without understanding it is mindless bandwagon jumping. But if you are reading about this topic, I'm sure you have come across statements by parents who opt out and are well-informed, despite talking to some who are just following the herd.

I do believe that the issue is far from over. When the scores do finally come out, my personal opinion is that there will be a greater outcry by parents in those areas where the scores affect their child's placement and by educators where the scores affect teacher evaluations and district resources.

The opt-out movement is just getting started and I don't think anyone thinks this one year is going to change everything. It may actually get worse before it gets better. This year awareness has been majorly heightened. Hopefully, before next year's round of tests, people who have heard about it will educate themselves as to the many issues that surround this movement. Next year should be even bigger. The government will not be able to ignore it if this continues to grow.

 

[Kbee]

I think we can all agree that neither support nor endorsement of this kind of testing without understanding it is mindless bandwagon jumping. But if you are reading about this topic, I'm sure you have come across statements by parents who opt out and are well-informed, despite talking to some who are just following the herd.

I do believe that the issue is far from over. When the scores do finally come out, my personal opinion is that there will be a greater outcry by parents in those areas where the scores affect their child's placement and by educators where the scores affect teacher evaluations and district resources.

Yes I have, and I posted before that my district had the highest opt-out percentage in the county, I'm sure there are very informed parents who have opted their children out for what they feel is a very good reason. I just found it kind of interesting that of all the parents I asked, maybe about a group of 10 of us, with 7 opting out they all pretty much had no other reason than everyone else is doing it. It is just an example of how these movements grow, and it really doesn't matter with who it started. I just wanted to point out to those who call us who are not in 100% support of the opt-out movement "uninformed" that it goes both ways, not everyone on your side is well informed either.

I do agree that the issue is far from over, and I can only speak about my own state. If this year's movement and message isn't enough to get Cuomo to rescind his proposal, what is it going to take next year?

 

[Kbee]

The opt-out movement is just getting started and I don't think anyone thinks this one year is going to change everything. It may actually get worse before it gets better. This year awareness has been majorly heightened. Hopefully, before next year's round of tests, people who have heard about it will educate themselves as to the many issues that surround this movement. Next year should be even bigger. The government will not be able to ignore it if this continues to grow.

I'd like to see the school districts take a bigger stand, have their teachers opt out of giving the tests instead of relying on the parents. The gov't won't be able to ignore that either.

 

[IDoDis]

Somebody's blog about somebody elses opinion and people commenting is no different than the info being shared here on the DIS.
Personally I don't care who led the movement, and I don't care that the NYSUT endores it or uses robo calls to urge parents to opt out. I found when I spoke to parents who opted their kid out they couldn't give me an answer to why except "everyone else is doing it". They aren't pushing some union agenda, they seem to not have a clue why they are doing it except to jump on the cause du jour bandwagon. I don't think that is much better LOL.


IN the end, it doesn't really matter how some blogger or their readers feel about some guy in Wisconsin opinion. All that matters is if the state (in my case NY) continues with its plan to use these test scores the way Cuomo has proposed. I've yet to see where they aren't, and have only read that they still plan too use the data. Only time will tell whether this had an impact or it just fizzled out and next year will be business as usual with these tests.

Well, you obviously don't know who Diane Ravitch, former Assistant Secretary of Education is! She is not just a "somebody" who writes a blog! This is what I mean being informed.

"From 1991 to 1993, she was Assistant Secretary of Education and Counselor to Secretary of Education Lamar Alexander in the administration of President George H.W. Bush. She was responsible for the Office of Educational Research and Improvement in the U.S. Department of Education. As Assistant Secretary, she led the federal effort to promote the creation of voluntary state and national academic standards.

From 1997 to 2004, she was a member of the National Assessment Governing Board, which oversees the National Assessment of Educational Progress, the federal testing program. She was appointed by the Clinton administration’s Secretary of Education Richard Riley in 1997 and reappointed by him in 2001. From 1995 until 2005, she held the Brown Chair in Education Studies at the Brookings Institution and edited Brookings Papers on Education Policy. Before entering government service, she was Adjunct Professor of History and Education at Teachers College, Columbia University...."

http://dianeravitch.com/about-diane/

 

[msjprincess]

....but you fail to say that poor performance is solely on the shoulders of the employee; not so in the case of educators. For instance, if an employee [in the private sector] comes to work late every day, it's THEIR fault, whether they wake up late, don't allot enough time for road traffic, rely too much on public transportation, etc. If students' test scores are lower, it is NOT necessarily as the result of poor teaching practices, but rather, can result from other outside influences of which the teacher has no control.

I agree. My brother teaches in a low income area of Manhattan. Many of his students live in homeless shelters. There is little parent involvement. Some kids are hardly ever in school. There's only so much that a teacher can do in that situation.

He teaches Social Studies though. I'm really not sure how they are doing the evaluations for teachers that teach subjects where there aren't any state assessments.

 

[Kbee]

Well, you obviously don't know who Diane Ravitch, former Assistant Secretary of Education is! She is not just a "somebody" who writes a blog! This is what I mean being informed.

"From 1991 to 1993, she was Assistant Secretary of Education and Counselor to Secretary of Education Lamar Alexander in the administration of President George H.W. Bush. She was responsible for the Office of Educational Research and Improvement in the U.S. Department of Education. As Assistant Secretary, she led the federal effort to promote the creation of voluntary state and national academic standards.

From 1997 to 2004, she was a member of the National Assessment Governing Board, which oversees the National Assessment of Educational Progress, the federal testing program. She was appointed by the Clinton administration’s Secretary of Education Richard Riley in 1997 and reappointed by him in 2001. From 1995 until 2005, she held the Brown Chair in Education Studies at the Brookings Institution and edited Brookings Papers on Education Policy. Before entering government service, she was Adjunct Professor of History and Education at Teachers College, Columbia University...."

http://dianeravitch.com/about-diane/

I guess you don't think I know how to google her, which I did. However you posted her blog, which was nothing more than her linking someone elses opinion, Tim Slekar, hence my post above. Why didn't you post any information about her, or what she has done, excerpts from her books etc. It seemed you only wanted us to focus on the comments of the readers of that blog post that support your view. Like I said in my pp, that is no different than what is being posted here.

I'm informed as I need to be to make the decision I need to for my child. I'm not opting my child out, I don't oppose these tests, or how they are implemented. I oppose their use for 50% of a teacher's evaluation but that isn't my fight or my child's, its the teacher's. Diane Ravitch or Tim Slekar aren't going to make me change my mind, as long as these tests are administered my child will be taking them.

 

[IDoDis]

No I don't think you did or you wouldn't have referred her to as a "somebody" with a blog.

Suit yourself. Just because my kids don't have cancer doesn't mean I don't support the Nueroblastoma Foundation. Just because I'm not homeless doesn't mean I don't help provide for the homeless. Many who are fighting this cause have very smart children, but they know the process is wrong. If you are okay with having your child be a pawn for corporations to make billions while the tests provide no value to his/her learning, that is your choice. Go for it.

 

[Kbee]

No I don't think you did or you wouldn't have referred her to as a "somebody" with a blog.

Suit yourself. Just because my kids don't have cancer doesn't mean I don't support the Nueroblastoma Foundation. Just because I'm not homeless doesn't mean I don't help provide for the homeless. Many who are fighting this cause have very smart children, but they know the process is wrong. If you are okay with having your child be a pawn for corporations to make billions while the tests provide no value to his/her learning, that is your choice. Go for it.

I didn't know who she was based on your link to her blog because you chose not too post any information about her, you wanted us to read the comments remember. I googled her to see who she was, and even reading aboit her I still don't see how what you posted was anything other than her linking someone elses opinion. You didn't post any relevant info about her and I used google to find about her. I don't care what you believe.

I have no problem not opposing these tests, and quite frankly I don't have much respect for those who do that try to insult those of us who don't. I have my reasons, and since my tax dollars are just as green as your's, they are just as valid. Disagreeing with your stance does not make one wrong.

 

[sam_gordon]

No I don't think you did or you wouldn't have referred her to as a "somebody" with a blog.

Suit yourself. Just because my kids don't have cancer doesn't mean I don't support the Nueroblastoma Foundation. Just because I'm not homeless doesn't mean I don't help provide for the homeless. Many who are fighting this cause have very smart children, but they know the process is wrong. If you are okay with having your child be a pawn for corporations to make billions while the tests provide no value to his/her learning, that is your choice. Go for it.

So by allowing kids to take tests made and sold by corporations (which has been going on for DECADES), we're letting them be "pawns"? How do you expect anyone to take what you say seriously (much less convince them you are "right") when you make claims like that?

 

[undertheradar]

Well, you obviously don't know who Diane Ravitch, former Assistant Secretary of Education is! She is not just a "somebody" who writes a blog! This is what I mean being informed.

"From 1991 to 1993, she was Assistant Secretary of Education and Counselor to Secretary of Education Lamar Alexander in the administration of President George H.W. Bush. She was responsible for the Office of Educational Research and Improvement in the U.S. Department of Education. As Assistant Secretary, she led the federal effort to promote the creation of voluntary state and national academic standards.

From 1997 to 2004, she was a member of the National Assessment Governing Board, which oversees the National Assessment of Educational Progress, the federal testing program. She was appointed by the Clinton administration’s Secretary of Education Richard Riley in 1997 and reappointed by him in 2001. From 1995 until 2005, she held the Brown Chair in Education Studies at the Brookings Institution and edited Brookings Papers on Education Policy. Before entering government service, she was Adjunct Professor of History and Education at Teachers College, Columbia University...."

http://dianeravitch.com/about-diane/[/QUOTE]

So when was the last time she was a public school teacher?

 

[undertheradar]

As if you haven't been insulting people left and right in this thread.

Yet oddly enough, I haven't called anyone stupid or their opinions stupid.

 

[IDoDis]

I didn't know who she was based on your link to her blog because you chose not too post any information about her, you wanted us to read the comments remember. I googled her to see who she was, and even reading aboit her I still don't see how what you posted was anything other than her linking someone elses opinion. You didn't post any relevant info about her and I used google to find about her. I don't care what you believe.

I have no problem not opposing these tests, and quite frankly I don't have much respect for those who do that try to insult those of us who don't. I have my reasons, and since my tax dollars are just as green as your's, they are just as valid. Disagreeing with your stance does not make one wrong.

You have your opinion and I have mine. I feel that I have an informed opinion. I didn't post the link to only read the comments. I posted to read the entry AND the comments. I assumed people would know that. I should have been more clear. An opinion of a very well-respected, educated person in the field is not the same thing as just a "somebody." My point being that some posters keep referring to the opt-out movement as tiny grass roots blogs that no one reads. Diane's blog had 17 million hits in the past 30 months. Who else is going to speak the truth about what is happening than those in the field? I put more weight into what top educators in the field have to say vs the non-educators who are making up the rules.

I'll give you another very well known and respected educator, Nancie Atwell who spoke out about how the testing is making teaching and learning worse. Does her name ring a bell to you? She recently won the first Global Teacher Prize of one million dollars which is an education award equivalent to the Nobel Peace Prize. I've known about her and read her books for years.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/ed/2015/03...of-maine-wins-1-million-global-teaching-prize

Unfortunately, the powers that be never consulted with experts like the ones I've mentioned when making decisions about the development of these tests. Those who just read headlines about opting out really have no idea behind the "why" those in the trenches feel that testing is all wrong.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/20/nancie-atwell-prize_n_6910948.html

 

[undertheradar]

Until we design and utilize a national education curriculum, all of this bickering will continue. Currently our education as a national achievement is a wreck. Depending upon which state you reside in, your student may or may not be required to have more that one year of physical education in high school. Some states require zero foreign language credits, limited science/health/history. We have to get to a national curriculum that is enacted evenly in all 50 states.

CC is an attempt at such a goal and the opt outs are an obvious attempt to stop such change. With all of the widespread panic and constant misrepresentations of test material and content, it is clear that individual states will be fighting a national standard for years to come.

 

[nugov2]

I don't want my child to be a pawn of testing companies, but I don't want them to be a pawn of the teachers either. There is a middle ground that must be found and some states have found while others haven't. I feel I am lucky to be in one that has. We don't have requirements linked to our test that are high stakes. We don't teach to the test. I think what Cuomo is pushing is wrong, but I also think what some are doing to block this are just as wrong. Neither one is putting the kids first and sadly this is often the case in education lately the unions don't care about the kids and the teachers just their agenda. Government doesn't care about the teachers either. It is really sad the disarray the education system is and unfortunately I feel as though opt out isn't a step in the right direction. Right now it is just a bunch of adults stomping their feet to get their way no matter who it hurts. You can be against the testing and not be for this movement. I fall in that category.

 

[IDoDis]

Until we design and utilize a national education curriculum, all of this bickering will continue. Currently our education as a national achievement is a wreck. Depending upon which state you reside in, your student may or may not be required to have more that one year of physical education in high school. Some states require zero foreign language credits, limited science/health/history. We have to get to a national curriculum that is enacted evenly in all 50 states.

CC is an attempt at such a goal and the opt outs are an obvious attempt to stop such change. With all of the widespread panic and constant misrepresentations of test material and content, it is clear that individual states will be fighting a national standard for years to come.

CCSS is not an attempt at that goal despite what the developers say. CCSS does not change high school coursework graduation requirements. CCSS and the testing nonsense associated with it is a way for corporations to tap into federal education money. That is all.

 

[Ceila]

I didn't know who she was based on your link to her blog because you chose not too post any information about her, you wanted us to read the comments remember. I googled her to see who she was, and even reading aboit her I still don't see how what you posted was anything other than her linking someone elses opinion. You didn't post any relevant info about her and I used google to find about her. I don't care what you believe.

Round two: "someone else's opinion" happens to belong to Timothy Slekar, Ph.D., the Dean of Edgewood College's School of Education and well known among educators for being a leader in the opt-out movement.

I'm sure the PP didn't expect everyone to know who he and Diane Ravitch are. However, before you chose to ridicule the blog based on it just being "someone's" opinion you could have checked to see who that "someone" was. Oh, and the PP didn't only say to read the comments, she just highlighted that they were of interest, too.

 

[jodifla]

Until we design and utilize a national education curriculum, all of this bickering will continue. Currently our education as a national achievement is a wreck. Depending upon which state you reside in, your student may or may not be required to have more that one year of physical education in high school. Some states require zero foreign language credits, limited science/health/history. We have to get to a national curriculum that is enacted evenly in all 50 states.

CC is an attempt at such a goal and the opt outs are an obvious attempt to stop such change. With all of the widespread panic and constant misrepresentations of test material and content, it is clear that individual states will be fighting a national standard for years to come.

This is the last thing we need. America's strength is the mosaic of different skill sets of its people. A national curriculum would marginalize millions whose strengths don't fall all along the lines of whatever the powers that be decide a national curriculum would entail and make us a nation of widget-people, all knowing and thinking the same things.

 

[Kbee]

This is the last thing we need. America's strength is the mosaic of different skill sets of its people. A national curriculum would marginalize millions whose strengths don't fall all along the lines of whatever the powers that be decide a national curriculum would entail and make us a nation of widget-people, all knowing and thinking the same things.

Its ironic you say that when here in this thread. Isn't the whole opt-out movement trying to get all people knowing and thinking the same thing about these tests..............................