Teachers are giving me a hard time pulling kids out of school

[Blueeyes101817]

Im a kindergarten teacher and last year, i had 2 children go to disney during the year fora week each. Our district policy is that they get the work when they come back. I know that when I was in school, I went on a week long vacation every other year. This continued throughout high school. I even took a week off in college a couple of semesters and still graduated with honors. If your kids can handle the make up work and stay caught up with the class, i would have no problem with it

 

[jenrose66]

My kids aren't in school yet but I was on the district website and they made it very clear that vacation is not a reason for non attendance.

Personally, if that's the only time you and DH can take the family vacation...I wouldn't ask the teachers for anything. Take your vacation and worry about the work when you get back. If your kids are good students they will catch up.

 

[Colleen27]

In our school district-I think the entire state of Ohio-the first week of October is the week attendance is taken to base individual school funding from the state and attendance is crucial.

I wish schools would be more up-front about this information. I know when MEAP and count days are now because I've looked them up online and added them to our calendar, but I'm sure many parents don't have a clue that being in school on 9/30 and from 10/13 to 10/29 is so important. I didn't, when we were thinking we could go this month instead of Jan - I thought about the testing schedule but not fall count day, and had we not postponed, my kids would have been out for it. Even my district, which does expressly allow family vacations as excused absences, doesn't mention those important dates in their newsletter or handbook. I'm sure if they did, most parents would make a point of not planning trips at those times.

 

[Tantor]

I'm a high school teacher, and I understand the hesitation about sending out daily e-mails to make sure that your child keeps on top of assignments. To you it's a quick message.

To me it is much more than that. I don't know how your child's classes are, but I do not rely on the textbook to do my teaching. It is difficult, if not impossible for me to convey what we covered in a day by typing a five minute e-mail. That means I would have to type up the class notes for the day and attach images and primary source documents. To do less would cheapen what I am trying to teach and put your child behind when he returns. This could take me anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour. I'm not happy about having to do that because you want to take your family to Disney World during school.

Then, what happens when your child has questions? More e-mail for me. Then your child is understandably behind when he returns, which means I will have to spend time with him after school. Don't get me wrong, I am happy to do it, but realize that my work day is now increased because I still have papers to grade and lessons to prepare. All because you wanted to go on vacation.

I hope your family has a wonderful time on vacation, but please cut you kids teachers some slack.

Melissa

I help in my daughter's middle school and I TOTALLY understand !

 

[manning]

I only read a few posts. I seem to remember teachers here who on earlier post have said they have taken their kids out of school to go somewhere and had no problem working with parents who did the same.


Yes, money is part of it. In our state schools get funding based on head count.

If the kid can do the work, then he/she should be allowed to go.

 

[Disneyluvr]

You also have to understand that attendance is included when determining whether or not a school has met AYP according to the No Child Left Behind law. It is not only test scores that determine this. It is ALL or NOTHING, every grade must meet the level for passing AND meet the attendance requirements or the whole school fails. SO if students are being taken out of school for several days, then the attendance rate goes down, and depending on how big your student population is, it could affect the AYP.

 

[Lanshark]

As an educator I can say that if you choose to pull your kids out it is your decision so you need to deal with the consequences of them missing something important. If your child misses vital instruction it is your responsibility to make sure that YOU find a way to catch them up. There are many ways to do this but again it is the students/parents responsibility to catch them up. I seldom teach from a text book. Many times I start the day thinking we'll be doing one thing but a "teaching moment" arises and we go a different direction.

That said, I took my kids out several times when they were younger. I have no problem with parents taking their kids out for a few days with advanced notice.

Once my kids reached middle school I felt the consequences of them missing vital instruction would have a negative impact on their overall success in those classes. The benefit no longer outweighed the possible cost. If the school district has an attendence policy your beef is not with the teacher. They're stuck trying to enforce that policy.

 

[Kath2003]

As an educator I can say that if you choose to pull your kids out it is your decision so you need to deal with the consequences of them missing something important. If your child misses vital instruction it is your responsibility to make sure that YOU find a way to catch them up. There are many ways to do this but again it is the students/parents responsibility to catch them up. I seldom teach from a text book. Many times I start the day thinking we'll be doing one thing but a "teaching moment" arises and we go a different direction.

I could set work that a student would miss, but it wouldn't cover what actually happens in school - no scope for group work, for discussion, for questioning etc.

I think you really need to realise that if you choose to pull your child out of education for a vacation (i.e. for fun):
a) It's an awful lot extra work for the teacher to ensure that one individual has unique work set for them to cover what is covered in the lesson.

b) The teacher then has to collect in and check over that work in their own time (e.g. if instead of participating in a group debate which the teacher could assess then and there in class, the absent child writes up an argumentative essay, that needs to be checked, graded and handed back).

c) The teacher probably doesn't have time to be emailing one set of parents every day. If you'd asked in plenty of time the teacher could have made the time to set book-work, but that again takes time away from the preparation and assessment the teacher could do with ALL her students instead of just yours.

d) That you are being fairly rude about a person who has responsibility for a large number of children AS WELL as yours, by criticising her unwillingness to do some of the above when you are choosing to take your child out of the education she is already providing for them. If your child is sick, do you ask her to set and email work for that day? Depending on the school, that teacher could see up to 150 subjects every single day, but you don't see why it's so hard to expect them to set, mark, email and assess work especially for your one student so that you can take a vacation?

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Charter schools select the children they want--even from those low-socioeconomic regions and often preclude students with disabilities--so when you select your students and you leave out children with mental disabilities, you are going to have better test scores. It's the job of public education to take every child regardless of upbringing and disability and make sure they score proficient on a test by the end of the year due to NCLB..

I haven't read all the posts, but I can assure you that in my district (I'm an administrator in a charter school) that isn't true at all. Admissions is by strict lottery. In the beginning the only exception to this rule was for siblings. Recently they've decided that people who were involved in the founding of the school (our founding board chair who has donated many hours of time to our school didn't get his child in the PreK lottery) and staff members can also have precedence, but this is a new rule.

We can not ask questions about disability on our applications, we have to take all students regardless of their history, disability, whether they were expelled from their previous school etc . . . We get far more students with disabilities (and do a fantastic job with them) than the regular public school. We also get children who are years behind because they've been failed by the public school and have 7 months to catch them up before we're judged on whether or not they're on grade level.

Furthermore, we can't "just kick a kid out". As a single school district we're too small to have the wide range of programming that the public schools have. If a child is deemed to need a special class for children with severe autism, or emotional disturbance or whatever, then we have to either program for them in our school, or go through the same process the public schools would go through to prove that they don't have a slot for them. That is to say, the public school system would have to prove that none of their many self contained special ed classes are appropriate, while we have to prove that we can't do the same things they do without self-contained special ed options. It's about a 6 month process and involves proving that you've done every single thing that you could be reasonably expected to do, such as hiring a one on one aide, modifying the child's schedule, bringing in specialists and therapists etc . . .

In my school we spend an incredible amount of time and energy on special ed, and we do it well. We have a special educator for every 2 classes, an ESL specialist for every 4, and an array of therapists and evaluators. We have professional development targeted towards helping general education teachers work with children with special needs, and plan lessons that reach everyone.

And we do this on what is effectively less money. Charter schools in my city get the exact same per pupil funding as the public schools. The difference is that public schools are located in big buildings on big pieces of land that are essentially given to them free, because the mortgage was paid off years ago, if a public school closes and we want to rent one of those buildings we have to pay "market rent", out of the same budget that they have.

To be clear, I'm not complaining. What we do is at my school is public education at it's best, and we have the test scores to prove it. We're proud to serve a wide range of kids and actively recruit to make sure that stays true. It bothers me, however, when someone discounts our results by stating that we don't have the same challenges as the public schools. It's excuse making of the worst kind, justifying crummy performance by public schools by yet again blaming it on the kids.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Move to Nova Scotia......

we don't have:

silly, unreasonable, truancy laws that force families into the court system for taking a child on vacation.

or

school boards who get paid more for higher attendance.

Viva Nova Scotia!

Our school boards don't get paid more for higher attendance. Our schools themselves are penalized for below-minimum attendance or test scores. It's extremely difficult to teach anything to a student who's not present for several/numerous consecutive days.

 

[kaytieeldr]

There are 185 days a year when kids are free for all the family time they could want. Memories can even be made on school days. And they certainly don't have to include Disney. I think it is silly to say that family comes first, therefore they should miss school.

I think that it is a lot to ask of a teacher to do extra work because a parent feels the need to pull a child during the school year.

Responding before I read any further: !!!!

 

[DVC-Don]

*Deleted - wrong thread

 

[C&G'sMama]

I haven't read all the posts, but I can assure you that in my district (I'm an administrator in a charter school) that isn't true at all. Admissions is by strict lottery. In the beginning the only exception to this rule was for siblings. Recently they've decided that people who were involved in the founding of the school (our founding board chair who has donated many hours of time to our school didn't get his child in the PreK lottery) and staff members can also have precedence, but this is a new rule.

We can not ask questions about disability on our applications, we have to take all students regardless of their history, disability, whether they were expelled from their previous school etc . . . We get far more students with disabilities (and do a fantastic job with them) than the regular public school. We also get children who are years behind because they've been failed by the public school and have 7 months to catch them up before we're judged on whether or not they're on grade level.

Furthermore, we can't "just kick a kid out". As a single school district we're too small to have the wide range of programming that the public schools have. If a child is deemed to need a special class for children with severe autism, or emotional disturbance or whatever, then we have to either program for them in our school, or go through the same process the public schools would go through to prove that they don't have a slot for them. That is to say, the public school system would have to prove that none of their many self contained special ed classes are appropriate, while we have to prove that we can't do the same things they do without self-contained special ed options. It's about a 6 month process and involves proving that you've done every single thing that you could be reasonably expected to do, such as hiring a one on one aide, modifying the child's schedule, bringing in specialists and therapists etc . . .

In my school we spend an incredible amount of time and energy on special ed, and we do it well. We have a special educator for every 2 classes, an ESL specialist for every 4, and an array of therapists and evaluators. We have professional development targeted towards helping general education teachers work with children with special needs, and plan lessons that reach everyone.

And we do this on what is effectively less money. Charter schools in my city get the exact same per pupil funding as the public schools. The difference is that public schools are located in big buildings on big pieces of land that are essentially given to them free, because the mortgage was paid off years ago, if a public school closes and we want to rent one of those buildings we have to pay "market rent", out of the same budget that they have.

To be clear, I'm not complaining. What we do is at my school is public education at it's best, and we have the test scores to prove it. We're proud to serve a wide range of kids and actively recruit to make sure that stays true. It bothers me, however, when someone discounts our results by stating that we don't have the same challenges as the public schools. It's excuse making of the worst kind, justifying crummy performance by public schools by yet again blaming it on the kids.

My understanding is that most charter schools get about 70% of the funds the district gets per student, I know this is true at our school.

As I said in a previous post our beef at Public school wasn't with teachers but with administration. Too often (not always) traditional public schools don't allow for creative solutions to problems. At our school, one year the school created a 3rd class of 6th grade for 7 students that were having both behavioral and academic issues. They set them up with a teacher and a counselor. These students flourished and in 7th grade went back with the rest of the students. The remaining students also benefited. Our class size is 22 per grade (except K which has 19) and there is a FT teacher and FT instructional support person in K-3. Last year they brought in a tutor for my DS as he was ahead of his classmates in math. My neighbor's daughter is severely behind (former foster child that was passed from grade to grade) and they have all kinds of people working with her.

And if a charter school does not out perform the district within which it is located, it will be closed. We had 2 close about 5 years ago.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I think it is silly that a teacher can't take a few minutes out of their day to write a brief summary on a homework message board for all the students to see.

It's not silly, and it's NOT JUST the homework. Students not in school during a given day are also missing what was taught/learned that day. There's no reason for the teacher to post that on a homework message board, since it would be redundant.

It's also not a matter of a teacher 'taking a few minutes out of their day'. It would require the teacher adding more work - and so more (unpaid) work time to their already full day.

 

[Bella the Ball 360]

I haven't read all the posts, but I can assure you that in my district (I'm an administrator in a charter school) that isn't true at all. Admissions is by strict lottery. In the beginning the only exception to this rule was for siblings. Recently they've decided that people who were involved in the founding of the school (our founding board chair who has donated many hours of time to our school didn't get his child in the PreK lottery) and staff members can also have precedence, but this is a new rule.

We can not ask questions about disability on our applications, we have to take all students regardless of their history, disability, whether they were expelled from their previous school etc . . . We get far more students with disabilities (and do a fantastic job with them) than the regular public school. We also get children who are years behind because they've been failed by the public school and have 7 months to catch them up before we're judged on whether or not they're on grade level.

Furthermore, we can't "just kick a kid out". As a single school district we're too small to have the wide range of programming that the public schools have. If a child is deemed to need a special class for children with severe autism, or emotional disturbance or whatever, then we have to either program for them in our school, or go through the same process the public schools would go through to prove that they don't have a slot for them. That is to say, the public school system would have to prove that none of their many self contained special ed classes are appropriate, while we have to prove that we can't do the same things they do without self-contained special ed options. It's about a 6 month process and involves proving that you've done every single thing that you could be reasonably expected to do, such as hiring a one on one aide, modifying the child's schedule, bringing in specialists and therapists etc . . .

In my school we spend an incredible amount of time and energy on special ed, and we do it well. We have a special educator for every 2 classes, an ESL specialist for every 4, and an array of therapists and evaluators. We have professional development targeted towards helping general education teachers work with children with special needs, and plan lessons that reach everyone.

And we do this on what is effectively less money. Charter schools in my city get the exact same per pupil funding as the public schools. The difference is that public schools are located in big buildings on big pieces of land that are essentially given to them free, because the mortgage was paid off years ago, if a public school closes and we want to rent one of those buildings we have to pay "market rent", out of the same budget that they have.

To be clear, I'm not complaining. What we do is at my school is public education at it's best, and we have the test scores to prove it. We're proud to serve a wide range of kids and actively recruit to make sure that stays true. It bothers me, however, when someone discounts our results by stating that we don't have the same challenges as the public schools. It's excuse making of the worst kind, justifying crummy performance by public schools by yet again blaming it on the kids.

What do you do with the behaviorally challenged kids? You know the ones that throw desks, swear, threaten or hurt other kids and or teachers, in essence destroy learning time for those who need it? The ones who smoke pot in the bathrooms and are often taken out in handcuffs? If you say that you keep them, educate them and make them behave then PLEASE come to my city/and or state and show the charter schools how to handle them because the way they do it is to ship them to us. If it is a strict lottery then tell me how come so many of them who cannot cut the mustard show up in public schools? Do you have an entrance exam?

 

[kaytieeldr]

That being said, I charted on 106 patients today. Their activities, orders, treatments etc. What would be so difficult to send off one email to a child on vacation?

In addition to all that charting, to how many patients or persons associated with those 106 patients were you expected to/did you contact via e-mail with any information; i.e. in addition to your typical day's work, how much additional work did you take on because a patient or a family member opted (because that's what a vacation is, optional) not to be available?

 

[kaytieeldr]

However, I think the parents of most 10 year olds or 8 year olds could probably manage to figure out their children's course work.

And for the record, PP, my undergrad was in history, and I've read extensively on the Civil War, so yes, I do think I could manage to hit a few high points without irreparably damaging my child's chance at an Ivy League education in that one week.

Respectfully, and without singling out ANY post or poster - the simple spelling (vs. typo) and usage errors I've seen in this thread indicate to me that many parents might not be as effective in helping their children catch up on missed work as they think.

And while YOU have a degree in history and continue to educate yourself on a specific period in American history, that doesn't qualify or enable every parent to help their own child make up missed schoolwork on the subject.

 

[kaytieeldr]

How many classes can a teacher have 8-10? At 3-5 minutes an email you could do it before the bell rings after each class.

Break out the Depends!!! When, exactly, do you think teachers take care of personal business except during that brief period between classes?

 

[kaytieeldr]

Easy to say when you aren't the parent who wants to share Disney and other travels with your children, but can't do so over school breaks. Can you honestly say that going to the zoo on Sunday and catching a movie after school are the same in terms of family time and making memories as going to Disney, Mexico, Europe, etc?

"The same"? No. But here's the sum total of my family's vacations when we were growing up:
One weekend (only) trip to a timeshare presentation in New Hampshire
One August 1964 visit to the World's Fair
Two summertime trips to visit grandparents in New Jersey
One summer week in New York City, across the street from the Empire State Building.

That's it. I missed school only when I was sick. My brother never missed a day of school (and who knows with the younger kids ). But we have family memories - of going to the movies with Dad on Sunday so Mom could rest; day/weekend trip to New Hampshire to stay with friends who had a summer home there; local zoos; local amusement parks; cookouts/parties/softball in the back yard...

"The same" memories? Technically, no - because they're not the same activities. But they were done with the SAME PEOPLE - and THOSE are the memories that count. Not what you did, but with whom you did it.

 

[klfrech]

I am a third grade teacher. Three days into the school year, a family pulled out one of my students for a surprise family trip. Great idea--I'm all for spending quality time with your kids because in a blink of an eye, they are grown up and gone (my 17 year old just got her driver's license yesterday). Having said that, this is a child who cannot afford to miss any school ever! Everyday is a struggle for her. I prepared all of the work for her, outlined assignments, etc. and expected it all to be completed upon her return. She also needed to be tested on the concepts that she missed. Her parents had the nerve to ask if she'd be tested on everything immediately upon her return. They thought this would be too much for her. You must be kidding! She missed 9 days of school. If I let her take tests at her own pace, she would miss further instructional time. They are then the first to whine about her poor academic performance. They want to know what I can to do to help her. HELLO...keep her in school! This family has been known to do this 3-4 times each year.

If your child can afford to miss school, then I say go for it. If keeping up is a struggle for them, vacation when school is out. It puts an unfair burden on your child. They come back into the classroom and look around like lost souls because they've lost valuable instructional time.

Bottom line--your choice to take a child out of school for family vacation is your choice. A teacher should not be expected to plan out every single thing a week or so ahead of time for one child (although I do it without hesitation).

Just don't complain when your child continues to struggle.