Survey on prospective ticket offerings for DVC members

[Horace Horsecollar]

The issue is not what Disney should "give" to DVC members. Disney is a business.

The issue is what DVC should offer that's "win-win" -- in other words, something that DVC members see as savings, but that actually generates more income for Disney because we end up spending more money with Disney.

Today, a relatively small perecentage of DVC members buy annual passes every year. And there's also a certain percentage that would never buy annual passes, even for half price, because they only go to the parks a few days during a 12-month period.

Then there are all of us in the middle. If Disney made it more attractive for substantially more DVC members to buy annual passes, many of us would spend as much or more on park tickets than we do today (although the folks who already buy annual passes would spend less on them). But with those annual passes, we'd be much less likely to visit off-site attractions, to dine off-site, and to shop off-site. We'd be much more likely to have dinner at Epcot, to shop in World Showcase, and to visit a park on a day when our main activity is to go to the pool. Also, don't underestimate the value of goodwill.

The problem is that it's hard to turn those "likely" behavior changes into numbers. I can imagine someone at Disney saying, "If we lower the price of annual passes for DVC members, the same people will buy them, but we'll make less money."

I hope someone else at Disney would respond, "Let's take that risk, because the more likely outcome is that all divisions of WDW would beneift from such a program."

 

[wdwdvcdad]

Originally posted by Horace Horsecollar

Today, a relatively small perecentage of DVC members buy annual passes every year.

do you have data, or is this a supposition of yours?

 

[DebbieB]

At the BWV annual meeting last December, they said 30% of DVC members have annual passes. They said that is the reason they thought the UPH discount was more suitable for members. I think an across the board discount would benefit all members, that way each could make the choice best for them.

 

[loveswdw]

Sorry I'm a bit behind on my DIS boards (we have a 61/2 month old so I don't get online near as much as I used to).

We did get the survey postcard and the survey was the 25% off APs, etc. I ranked APs as No. 1, PHs as No. 2, PAP as No. 3 and UPH (LOS) as No. 4.

We have never made more than one trip per year prior but if APs may become $279 + tax then we just may bump up the number of trips.

As I completed the survey I went to disneyworld.com and checked the current prices of PHs & PHPs on the advance order price. Last time I bought PHs in advance at DS and the trip before I ordered them online and picked them up at will call. The current advance price for a 5 day PH was $259. With the possible 15% DVC discount it is $239.

So for basically $40 more you get a full year of park admission. So the AP sounded good.

At the 15% off 5 day PH you are only saving around $20 ($4 per day per PH) off the advance price. This didn't seem that great to me. Now if it had been $10/day savings or so then that would've seemed more like a good deal.

Has anybody posted a poll of how many DIS Board DVCers got this survey postcard? It would be interesting to see how many of us got the postcard, which discount we were offered and which media type we ranked as number one. Any pollsters out there??

loveswdw

 

[DebbieB]

There was a poll asking which pass would you choose:

http://130.94.75.33/showthread.php?s=&threadid=597268

 

[disvaclub92]

Originally posted by DebbieB
At the BWV annual meeting last December, they said 30% of DVC members have annual passes. They said that is the reason they thought the UPH discount was more suitable for members. I think an across the board discount would benefit all members, that way each could make the choice best for them.

I agree with Debbie - an across the board discount would benefit all members. We purchase annual passes - but my parents and in-laws do not come down as often - so a UPH would be more beneficial for them.

 

[Dean]

I'd be very surprised if 30% of members have any type of yearly pass, even grouping AP, PAP and the FL resident passes. I'd also be surprised if the LOS passes were anywhere near 30% either. The problem is that a large portion of members won't benefit from an AP or PAP unless the price makes sense for 1 6-7 day trip per year. And considering that many members don't go to the park every day, you'd need to discount it to around the price of a 5 day PH plus pass to get those people on board. The seasonal pass would actuall fit the bill for many but I'm not expecting DVC to offer one to the members. The LOS pass is actually a good idea if the price were right.

 

[Terry S]

We bought our first annual pass thinking we would get 2 trips out of one pass by going at the end of October 1 year and then the beginning of October the following year. After we bought our APs they were burning a hole in our pockets so we figured we had them we might as well use them, we then went twice a year so we had to buy more points. Maybe this is what DVC is thinking?

 

[TheRustyScupper]

Annual Passes:
. . . those that go several times per year
. . . those that use now, then go a week earlier next year
Park Hoppers:
. . . those that don't go every day
Ultimate Park Hoppers:
. . . those that go to parks every day while at DVC


1) The problem here is that everyone has their own self-interest.
2) I seriously doubt across-the-board discounts would be good
3) Which of the above actually results in more park attendance
4) While increasing attendance, which is best profit method
5) If it were your company, which would you chose
. . . AP's - then discount dollars you would get anyway
. . . PH's - the discount tickets for folks who still might not go more
. . . UPH - get more people to sign up EVERY time they visited

Personal Opinion: I can't guess what WDW will do, but it's hard to believe that the first two options would TRULY bring in more attendance without losing money they would have gotten anyway. The intent is not to give away discounts to tickets that would normally be sold, but to entice people to visit WHENEVER they are at DVC.

 

[erikthewise]

This post intentionally left blank.
(I can never delete posts anymore -- why is that?)

 

[GrimGhost]

Bump..

 

[deerh]

By Horsecollar:The problem is that it's hard to turn those "likely" behavior changes into numbers. I can imagine someone at Disney saying, "If we lower the price of annual passes for DVC members, the same people will buy them, but we'll make less money."

Sorry a little late on this thread, but have been at WDW this week.
As for me, an AP would without a doubt be the option for us!
I don't want to pay $403/AP, but with a 15/25% discount, ($342 with a 15%) or ($302 with a 25% off), you can count us in.

I disagree with Horsecollar on the above statement. The same people will by them, but more would come on board like me who live 8 hrs from WDW, but uwilling to fork out the money.

In the above scenerio, a AP NOW is: (4 people)=$1612
With a 15 % discount an AP would be:$1368
With a 25% discount an AP would be:= $1208
Now this is with tax, so shaving $404, YES add me to the AP people.

DeerH
P.S With the going rate of $58/day the break event point on an AP with 25% discount would be 5.2 days. With a %15 discount, the break even point would be 5.898 days.
Just another reason I (as I feel MANY DVCers would buy an AP!

 

[ralphd]

Originally posted by Dean
The LOS pass is actually a good idea if the price were right.

Makes sense, but getting a better price is key.

ralphd

 

[jarestel]

The problem with a discounted pass is that in a few years with ticket increases each year, you'll be right back at the price point where many people don't want to buy today. Unless the goal is to be able to buy passes for less than what others pay, I don't see how discounts would solve any of the pricing concerns for more than a couple of years. I'd rather see a "permanent" AP price, where you are guaranteed the same price for the next "x" amount of years as long as you renew your AP every year before the expiration date. If you don't renew and then decide to buy back in at a later date, you start over again at the current AP price.

 

[manning]

Permanent AP price for x number of years?

I don't think and shouldn't think this will happen.

 

[jarestel]

Originally posted by manning
Permanent AP price for x number of years?

I don't think and shouldn't think this will happen.

I realize this choice wasn't on the survey but I was just attempting to show why discounts are just a short term fix. I'm pretty sure this won't happen either, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to throw it out there. You never know who reads these boards!

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by jarestel
I realize this choice wasn't on the survey but I was just attempting to show why discounts are just a short term fix. I'm pretty sure this won't happen either, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to throw it out there. You never know who reads these boards!

Personally I think a one time pass or a pass for 5 or 10 years makes sense for WDW and DVC. It's revenue in their pocket now and possibly in the future if those with the passes use it more than they would have another ticket type. Of course the price would have to be cheap enough to entice members, and possibly FL residents, to use it. What that price is would likely be the equivilent of about 3 years or an AP for a 5 years ticket and 4-5 years of an AP for a 10 years ticket. Even then there would be a certain number who wanted it but wouldn't be able to swing it due to the total cost.

 

[vernon]

I realize this choice wasn't on the survey but I was just attempting to show why discounts are just a short term fix.

If the discount continues at say 20% of the usual cost of an AP and the other ticket prices increase in line with each other then why do you think it's a "short term fix" the saving in 5 years time will still be as relevent then as it is now.

Can't see Disney going for a fixed AP price, the long term losses of that are quite extreme to the company.

I can see an argument for a 5 year pass ( IMHO a 10 yr one is just too complex and costly to attract enough take up. What happens if the owner dies? Is it transferable, the buyers will worry if they become ill, lose their job, will we be able to vacation all the time etc ) but many of the fears that rule out , IMHO, a 10 year pass can equally be made about a 5 year one. I think we're all reasonably confident about the next couple of years of our lives and many feel happy planing 3 or 4 years ahead, but IMHO 5 years is right on the cusp of what most people plan for. It would have to be too cheap for Disney in order to attract guests.

 

[jarestel]

Originally posted by vernon
If the discount continues at say 20% of the usual cost of an AP and the other ticket prices increase in line with each other then why do you think it's a "short term fix" the saving in 5 years time will still be as relevent then as it is now.

This is so, and like I said if your goal is simply to get tickets for less than others have to pay, you'll be happy with this deal. However, since ticket prices are going to rise every year by some percentage, your 20% discounted ticket price in 5 years will most likely be higher than your non-discounted price today. And many people complain that today's price is more than they are willing to pay. So I'm wondering if people think it's too much to pay today, why will it be ok to pay that much in a few years time? Do you see where I'm going with this? I'll definitely take advantage of any discount I'm offered, I'm not saying I don't want discounts.

 

[vernon]

But if all rises are in line with inflation, one's wages will have risen in line (hopefully) as well. It's a comparative cost one has to judge the cost of hoppers, the other themeparks, a day at the waterpark, Cirque etc.

I don't think the complaint is so much that an AP is or is not expensive in absolute terms, just that there are other ways to entertain oneself better ( or at least as well) for less money. If the cost of Universal, SW, BG, hoppers, waterparks etc goes up in line, the rationale is going to be similar to today. The pools and facilities of the DVC hotels are excellent, but few people are going to be satisfied with them alone as their entertainment, therefore it is a question of what offers the best value for money for the owners. If Disney can keep people on it's property it wins, if the guests get annual passes to Disney for the cost they would have spent on 3 hopper days , 2 days at USF and a couple of days at Anhauser Busch parks they also win. The losers are USF and Anhauser Busch. As long as those numbers add up the discounts make sense to both Disney and to the guests.