Suicide in the elderly

[Karin1984]

I was thinking about this topic in the train this morning. I hope that in the future we will have the choice.
In the Netherlands (where I live) we do have the option to end your life for medical reasons and this can include 'unbearable mental suffering'. But not yet for what we call 'fullfilled or completed lives'.

Research in 2019 showed that 0,2% of people 55 and older have the wish to end their lives when it's fullfilled. One thing that influences this wish is the feeling that they are a burden to others.

A proposal has been discussed in our House of Representatives, but it needed more work. It was lacking what to do to prevent people from making hasty decisions.

 

[goofyernmost]

Please please please be careful with your words. I know you didn't mean it this way, but I am certain this person's father very much cared about his children and how they might feel and still arrived at the decision he did. His actions are not a reflection on how he felt about family members or friends or the depth of his love for those people but more so how he was feeling and what he may have been fearing for his future.

It wasn't about him, it was about my feelings. I can tell you that those feelings of despair are sometimes overpowering and blocks all common sense. I have no idea what her father was thinking that lead him to do that. I only know what I did to stop myself. But, we all cannot be lucky enough to have that occur to us at those times.

 

[kymom99]

I have an uncle by marriage. Around 90 years old and living in a nursing home. Of his 3 children, one is local. My sister and I try to visit and take him a meal about once a month. My aunt died in her early 60s so he has been alone for quite some time. After she passed, he spent a lot of time traveling. He has some great stories to tell in his still very clearheaded. When we were leaving the last time we went to see him I told my sister I didn’t want to ever be in his situation. The poor guy has nothing to do but look at the walls all day, he doesn’t like to really participate in activities because so many of the people in the facility don’t know what’s going on around them and he does. so I can completely understand elderly people who just feel like they have had enough.

 

[Gracedis1]

When I was getting my degree in social work I learned that elderly men have a high rate of suicide. I didn't know that before but some men have a hard time with not feeling productive, needing help from others, and being lonely.

It sounds like you were there for him and did everything you could. I'm so sorry.

 

[John VN]

IMO, the choice SOL had in "Soylent Green" is one I firmly believe in and even "Logan's Run" with *Carousel* would be fine.

*Quality of Life* is different for every one and mine is a priority for living and not just existing.

 

[Beezle2]

IMO, the choice SOL had in "Soylent Green" is one I firmly believe in and even "Logan's Run" with *Carousel* would be fine.

*Quality of Life* is different for every one and mine is a priority for living and not just existing.

Its not a popular opinion, or at least we are discouraged from it if it is our opinion. When I am done, I want to go when I want and on my terms.

 

[goofyernmost]

There are so many stories because there is no one set of life experiences that are the same for everyone. I had an Aunt that I really liked. As a kid she always was nice to me and respectful. Enough so that as a fairly young child I noticed it. I never met a person that had a harder life. Her husband, my mother's brother, was a veteran of the Battle of the Bulge in WWII and had what at the time they called "Shell Shock", today PTSD, and a full on alcoholic who died of pancreatic cancer fairly young. She had to support the family before that which wasn't all that easy in the 50's, because he couldn't keep a job. She had to deal with that and a number of other tragic situations She had four children, the second child died in her arms at about one year of cystic fibrosis, the forth also had cystic fibrosis but died when the vaporizer that was in his room shorted out, caught fire and the 7 month old died in the fire, the two remaining both lived to be in their 60's before dying of alcohol related issues. Both were still living with her. She developed Parkinson's and eventually had to leave her home and be placed in a nursing home where she passed a few months later. For the last 5 or 6 years of her life every time I spoke with her all she could do is talk about how she just wanted to die She had experienced enough. Oh, I forgot to mention that while a friend was visiting her, he had a heart attack and died. Let me tell you that the strength that women showed through all that, was a wonder. I don't know how she did it and still always looked happy to see you. The last two of her children, I grew up with, but can you imagine outliving a husband and all four of her children and being sick herself, according to her, just not sick enough. I cannot!

So it really is impossible to bunch everyone in the same narrow vision. Everyone's life is different and the degree of loneliness is not measurable to the younger persons that is up to their necks in life and although may love their parents are either unable to be close or unwilling to be close. Not out of anger but out of feeling that they really don't have the time. Again I am not talking about the original post. I have no idea what that family dynamic was or what state of mind her dad was in at the time. I'm just talking about my feelings.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Death with dignity can have a different meaning for each individual and their set of circumstances.
We often change our perception regarding "quality" of life as we age. Our wants and needs change...from traveling the world to being content with smelling the flowers, listening to birds sing and remembering adventures. Having peace, comfort, and hope are important factors for a positive attitude as we go into our later years.

 

[barkley]

all she could do is talk about how she just wanted to die She had experienced enough

my mother spoke similarly but in her case it was also 'i want my turn to finally be at rest'. mom ended up doing the same thing (consciously or not) her older sister did years prior which i consider to be a kind of passive suicide-she pretty much stopped eating in the last months of her life. i saw what was going on and if there had been a more compassionate means to assist her i would have been all for it. as it was the best i could do was support her by repeatedly pointing out to hospice that my mother's refusal to eat was her own choice, they were not to try and guilt her into eating (as i had overheard them do with others) and that so long as she was competent and refused a feeding tube it would not be inserted/nor would it when the time came that i was responsible for her medical care. one of the last times i spent with my mom she was in and out of awareness. during one of her non lucid periods she began talking out loud in a happy/excited voice i hadn't heard in years-by the nature of the conversation i realized she was talking to a friend of the family who had passed a couple decades earlier-she was saying 'i'm on my way, i'm so excited to see you again-we have to get everyone together like we used to'-then she started naming off long passed friends and family'

my mom's passing played a big part in mine and dh's end of life planning-and drove our decision to move to a 'death with dignity' state.


op-i am so sorry for your loss.

 

[goofyernmost]

Death with dignity can have a different meaning for each individual and their set of circumstances.
We often change our perception regarding "quality" of life as we age. Our wants and needs change...from traveling the world to being content with smelling the flowers, listening to birds sing and remembering adventures. Having peace, comfort, and hope are important factors for a positive attitude as we go into our later years.

I owned a level 4 nursing home for 14 years. They were also called Residential Care Homes. I had a variety of clients from handicapped to mentally challenged to elderly. I experienced three of my clients die (two on the toilet with their pants around their knees not much dignity there) the other on all types of machines in a hospital. Even my X-wife wasted away to nothing more than a skeleton covered in skin. There is no such thing as death with dignity or at least no way of guaranteeing it. If you're lucky it happens that way and you die peacefully in your sleep.

 

[tinkerbellandpeterpan]

It wasn't about him, it was about my feelings. I can tell you that those feelings of despair are sometimes overpowering and blocks all common sense. I have no idea what her father was thinking that lead him to do that. I only know what I did to stop myself. But, we all cannot be lucky enough to have that occur to us at those times.

Love and hugs. I understand what you are saying.

 

[princesscinderella]

@maxaroni I’m so sorry you are having to deal with the way your father passed along with the reality of his death. There’s no easy way to lose a loved one but, suicide is such a mental mind**** for the ones left behind. I wish you and your family the best as you grieve and celebrate your father’s life.

Sending hugs your way

 

[kanne323]

Has anyone dealt with this? We spent the last 3 weeks in FL taking care of things. We are not only devastated by the loss, but the manner of death.

I have not personally dealt with this situation (I did lose someone very important to suicide after a terminal diagnosis, I was a young child at the time), but I've worked with families who did experience very similar situations.

I want to express my condolences- I'm so sorry for your loss. Death is never easy, and there are a lot of complicated feelings that can arise when you lose someone to suicide, even when you have an idea of why he chose to die that way. Grief that comes after suicide can feel even more isolating than other grief. I hope that you have supportive people in your life who will honor your grief... and I have to add a gentle reminder to have patience and grace for yourself and your grief.

I know you didn't ask for advice, so please disregard if you're not interested... as a grief counselor, I want to recommend the book Hello Grief by Alessandra Olanow. It has very short snippets (easier to read in grief than long chunks of words) and is meant to be supportive without telling you how to grieve. And if you feel like you're struggling, check your local non-profit hospice to see if they offer grief counseling to the community (many do.) Grief counseling is not therapy and it does not treat anything, because grief is not wrong and cannot be fixed. It does, however, offer a safe space to process and talk about your father. Not everyone actually needs grief counseling, but know that it's an option should you wish to pursue it.

 

[dez1978]

I am sorry for your loss. I really think that more states should have the Death with Dignity laws or whatever they are called. Then people could talk about these choices and include their loved ones and be with them when it happens, rather than planning it in secret and leaving their families to wonder "what if" . I also believe that people think of suicide in a certain way, like it has a stigma attached to it, where people think there was something "wrong" and maybe it could have been fixed, which leaves families feeling guilty. And this particular circumstance is not one of those where anyone should feel guilty.

I say that for this reason. My dad died of cancer. He'd had several surgeries over the course of 6 years, starting when I was in 3rd grade. When it came back the last time, he decided he'd had enough. He'd done the surgeries, done radiation, all the things, and his quality of life was not as it should be. His cancer was in his mouth from chewing and smoking (this was early 90's and he was born in 39, so common for that age group). So because of that, the last surgery was pretty extensive, resulting in him needing a stomach tube to eat, and a trach. He was ready to be done. So he did Hospice and all the things and wanted to die at home, and had a plan. However one morning he woke up and didnt know who any of us were or why he had a stomach tube etc, and had to be taken to the hospital and put in a come until he passed. My mom wanted to follow his plan but was afraid she'd go to jail, and I was only 14 so she didn't. If those laws existed then, he could have passed how he wanted to.

The death of a parent is hard, no matter the circumstance or the method. My personal feelings is that your father had made a choice and went quickly. And even tho that choice might not be one you'd have chosen, it was one that ended the suffering quickly, rather than a drawn out illness. I think focusing on that part, rather than the method, may make it easier to cope with. I really am sorry for your loss, and I hope that once the initial grief wears off that you can find some solace.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

“Death on the toilet” is something that can happen to anyone. It usually means that someone isn’t feeling well, and that feeling then triggers vagus nerve stimulation, which makes one feel like they have to have a bowel movement.

I don’t think it necessarily reflects a state of horrible demise, though it’s probably certainly not the way most people would choose to go (pun intended). We see it a lot in the hospital, but often resuscitation is successful, if that is what people choose through their “code status“ (ie they want to be resuscitated).

 

[goofyernmost]

“Death on the toilet” is something that can happen to anyone. It usually means that someone isn’t feeling well, and that feeling then triggers vagus nerve stimulation, which makes one feel like they have to have a bowel movement.

I don’t think it necessarily reflects a state of horrible demise, though it’s probably certainly not the way most people would choose to go (pun intended). We see it a lot in the hospital, but often resuscitation is successful, if that is what people choose through their “code status“ (ie they want to be resuscitated).

There is a difference between a horrible death and one that is just wrong because of it's location. I am aware of the reasons and illness is a cause but so is age. They might feel fine and the next thing you know it's over. And what a way to be found. However, no matter the place, time or reason the victim is no longer conscious about worldly thoughts, etc. It just seems unjust, but it really doesn't matter.

 

[dvcgirl67]

I have an uncle by marriage. Around 90 years old and living in a nursing home. Of his 3 children, one is local. My sister and I try to visit and take him a meal about once a month. My aunt died in her early 60s so he has been alone for quite some time. After she passed, he spent a lot of time traveling. He has some great stories to tell in his still very clearheaded. When we were leaving the last time we went to see him I told my sister I didn’t want to ever be in his situation. The poor guy has nothing to do but look at the walls all day, he doesn’t like to really participate in activities because so many of the people in the facility don’t know what’s going on around them and he does. so I can completely understand elderly people who just feel like they have had enough.

One thousand percent agree, especially after my MIL spent the last 12 weeks of her life in one of these places. She was very confused and we were lucky that my FIL at 91, is still very much with it, able to drive and thus could sit with her for 4-6 hours every day. Had we *not* had him, with the rest of us still working, it would have been all the more awful. And seeing the other people there, the ones who looked fairly robust, but utterly confused, or worse...a bit less robust but completely with it mentally....ugh.

The problem with this whole topic is that you have to be "with it" enough to be able to do something about it (if you so chose to do so), and have the fortitude to go through with it (as in this country we don't have assisted euthanasia). Because once you get to the point where my MIL was....it's too late. We just watched her waste away and made decisions along the way to speed up the process. Those decisions aren't always easy, and stick with you.

There was already a DNR in place, and both of my in-laws do not want any permanent tube placement for "tube feeding"...but there was one hospitalization during her stay where they gave her two units of blood, and that perked her up for a couple of weeks. She was in such poor heath in so many other ways that my FIL decided on hospice at that point and did not want the cause of her blood loss to be investigated when her hemoglobin dropped again. She wasn't bleeding internally....she wasn't making red blood cells. So after that, we added a DNH..."do not hospitalize", and from that point it was about 3 weeks back at the home until she passed.

I came away from the whole experience thinking that there has to be a better way to do this.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I've seen a lot and filter out what doesn't matter in the grand scheme of life. The death moment doesn't define the entirety of our existence. There is much more to our legacy than how one dies. I choose to focus on the positive aspects... especially the joyful times and love.

OP Hope you are able to find peace and comfort. Again I'm so very sorry for your loss.

 

[goofyernmost]

I've seen a lot and filter out what doesn't matter in the grand scheme of life. The death moment doesn't define the entirety of our existence. There is much more to our legacy than how one dies. I choose to focus on the positive aspects... especially the joyful times and love.

OP Hope you are able to find peace and comfort. Again I'm so very sorry for your loss.

That's what I said! It doesn't define one's life, but it seems like a nasty ending for a life well lived. That's my whole point since it is sometimes in direct contrast to the proud, demure way life might have been lived and how much one contributed to others around them. Just seems like a humbling, undeserved way to exit.

 

[CamillaF]

I am sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing. I live in a state that has a death with dignity law. From what I understand very few people use it. However having the option of using it keeps our elderly sluiced rate lower than other states. Some times someone just needs to know they have control.