Sturgis Motorcycle Rally...HUGE Crowds expected

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Of course, and that's a different conversation. How does a conversation about second-hand smoke, reckless driving, etc. have anything to do with deciding to go to a huge gathering with no precautions (with the exception of the outdoor part which seems fine) and catching something that, when you have it, you put healthcare workers immediately at risk and they don't really have a choice in the matter. We have no laws against that. We do for speeding though.

That was my whole point from the first post I made: that I don't care what people do with their own health WRT COVID but, if they get it, they are seriously threatening all the healthcare workers in their path. That's just incredibly selfish and it's a shame that some doctor, nurse, lab technician, etc. is going to take on greater risk because someone wanted to go have fun in a crowd. There's just something so incredibly self-centered about that mentality.

Obviously I'm being super-dense here because I cannot neatly compare another situation out there today that fits with enjoying yourself in a pandemic, catching it, then relying on already-burdened frontline healthcare workers to take care of you and think nothing of it.
I totally understand where you are coming from. Not really fair to over-burdened health workers.

On some level though most people in rescue and aid positions become experienced with dealing with and accepting that public ignorance often puts themselves in jeopardy. Not that it's right, just a matter of reality. Firemen, police, healthcare, rescue teams... It's quite intricate and distracting to consider if and when a person deserved attention.

Maybe a good solution would be to set up Sturgis infection tents and let the maskless of society tend to the infected inside.
 
So you don't think they have views or cares about a person who, just for kicks and grins, decides to wade into a COVID cesspool and then shows up in their presence looking to be cared for, at close range, needing services that generally requires them to HAZMAT up? It's a good thing that I'm *not* in the medical field because I don't feel like risking my life for that type of person. I still do not equate riding without a helmet, smoking, taking drugs, etc. as dangerous of a risk to me as someone who decides to flirt with COVID or Ebola or anything else highly infectious. The innocents are a different matter.

I'm pretty clear on how I see this and I'll never equate risky behavior that only causes YOU bodily harm in the same league as risky behavior that will also cause an infection to yourself and anyone that tries to help you.
I feel like you skipped my comments I'll just repost it just in case:

I have family members in healthcare (one is an LPN for well over 10 years, the other presently in training doing rotationals and one high up in accounting and is privy to incoming hospitalization numbers) but in discussions with them they have never discussed how someone who puts themselves at risk shouldn't get treatment or should sign their rights away. They express their frustrations and are not people who would shy away at telling you how they feel. To them (well the one in training is just starting to see all the various situations out there) it's morally repugnant to discuss whom should and shouldn't get treatment or choose to get treatment based on activities one does even in frustration. I don't begrudge those who just need to let it out I'm just offering their side. They don't represent all those in healthcare though and I would never want to share their viewpoints to make that sort of statement.

I told you they don't shy away from expressing how they feel I have no reason to believe they are sugar coating it. I also said while they may have frustrations they don't think it's morally right to question treatment or to think someone shouldn't seek treatment/have access to it and that was the direct comparison we were discussing. Not that people are this or that (as in selfish or stupid, etc) but the matter of treatment (should they are should they not) which you were the one to bring up. Maybe you're starting to veer off into a different conversation perhaps?

FWIW I know there are other posters who are in the medical field who don't have the same opinion on all things COVID as others. That's fairly normal for not everyone to agree.
 
I was just thinking the same thing. Put down the dang Twinkie or no open heart surgery for you! Stop drinking or there’s no way you’re getting a new liver.

now you've done it. go ahead and talk about not smoking or drinking, but when you ask me to give up my twinkie, that crosses a line for me that ought not to be crossed. I wont put you on ignore or report you, because both of those are pretty childish to do, but I will never look at you the same after your twinkie comment.
 

I feel like you skipped my comments I'll just repost it just in case:



I told you they don't shy away from expressing how they feel I have no reason to believe they are sugar coating it. I also said while they may have frustrations towards people's various attitudes with respects to COVID but they don't think it's morally right to question treatment or to think someone shouldn't seek treatment/have access to it and that was the direct comparison we were discussing. Not that people are this or that (as in selfish or stupid, etc) but the matter of treatment (should they are should they not) which you were the one to bring up. Maybe you're starting to veer off into a different conversation perhaps?

FWIW I know there are other posters who are in the medical field who don't have the same opinion on all things COVID as others. That's fairly normal for not everyone to agree.

I didn't skip your comments at all. I am merely sticking to my point that *I* don't think it's right to willfully make yourself sick for fun and then subsequently endanger the person's life that has to treat you. I am super-glad that the health care workers you know take that behavior in stride and just chalk it up to what they morally signed up to do with their lives. Thank goodness for them. Doesn't change my mind, doesn't change my view and never will.

And I'm not saying I'm right or that because other people don't agree with me, I'm upset or mad. I only keep coming back to this because some posters are trying to demonstrate an exact equivalency between behaviors that endanger other people's lives (second hand smoke, reckless driving) and thinking it's the exact same thing as going to a COVID convention. It will never be the same in my mind because when you catch the virus and get sick, you are leaning on the resources of medical care people to cure you from your foolhardy behavior while risking their health to be in your breathing space. These are also providers that have to care for other people too, with many different illnesses, and now the COVID sufferer has upped the risk for everyone, just so he/she could go to this event or that event or whatever it is.

The two situations are quite different in my mind.
 
On some level though most people in rescue and aid positions become experienced with dealing with and accepting that public ignorance often puts themselves in jeopardy. Not that it's right, just a matter of reality. Firemen, police, healthcare, rescue teams... It's quite intricate and distracting to consider if and when a person deserved attention.
Yes this is what I was getting at. The one who I spoke of who was doing rotationals did an x-ray recently on the suspect who shot a police officer in the head (who did survive) in our area. There was no time nor was it a thought at the time whether she should do what she needed to do. The suspect was a patient and that was the end of it. Now later on when she could decompress she told us she's sure it's the first of many of these, knowing someone did something bad and you have to treat them anyhow.

Their positions aren't without health risks either especially if a patient is combative or considered dangerous. COVID isn't something that changes how they view their patient in terms of treatment. Their utmost priority is to treat them regardless of their personal feels. It's a slippery slope to them personally that is to begin thinking about should they or shouldn't they.
 
I didn't skip your comments at all. I am merely sticking to my point that *I* don't think it's right to willfully make yourself sick for fun and then subsequently endanger the person's life that has to treat you. I am super-glad that the health care workers you know take that behavior in stride and just chalk it up to what they morally signed up to do with their lives. Thank goodness for them. Doesn't change my mind, doesn't change my view and never will.

And I'm not saying I'm right or that because other people don't agree with me, I'm upset or mad. I only keep coming back to this because some posters are trying to demonstrate an exact equivalency between behaviors that endanger other people's lives (second hand smoke, reckless driving) and thinking it's the exact same thing as going to a COVID convention. It will never be the same in my mind because when you catch the virus and get sick, you are leaning on the resources of medical care people to cure you from your foolhardy behavior while risking their health to be in your breathing space. These are also providers that have to care for other people too, with many different illnesses, and now the COVID sufferer has upped the risk for everyone, just so he/she could go to this event or that event or whatever it is.

The two situations are quite different in my mind.
Okay maybe here's the confusion. I was just giving the viewpoints of the people I know in healthcare. I felt I was respectful in saying they don't represent all in healthcare nor was I making that statement. I was never intending to change your viewpoint. It's fine you're sticking to your point but I wasn't debating that nor contesting that when I shared what my family's viewpoints were :flower3: I apologize if that's the impression I was giving off as that was not my intent :)
 
Okay maybe here's the confusion. I was just giving the viewpoints of the people I know in healthcare. I felt I was respectful in saying they don't represent all in healthcare nor was I making that statement. I was never intending to change your viewpoint. It's fine you're sticking to your point but I wasn't debating that nor contesting that when I shared what my family's viewpoints were :flower3: I apologize if that's the impression I was giving off as that was not my intent :)

No apology required and yes you were very respectful. I am guessing that I'm just not communicating my sentiment well. My first statement on this matter was from the gut in that I felt like if you took the risk to party, maybe you should forgo your "right" to treatment. It's selfish and unfair. Obviously, that's not how we work here and I'm glad for the attitudes of the health care workers you know. I guess after hearing about that ICU doctor that died after treating COVID patients, if I was one of his loved ones I would be enraged to see the Sturgis rally and know that those happy bikers could easily kill another dedicated worker, for what? And yes, there are horrible examples of a health care worker having to take care of, say, a mass shooter and they may be repulsed, but they do it because of their oath. That mass shooter in the ICU, however, is not spreading disease to the doctor. That's where I part ways with the analogy. Doctors face this with all sorts of diseases, but it's just hard to see it happen when someone gets a highly infections disease for "fun."
 
Does anyone know of the majority stays for the whole 10 days or do most people just go for one of the weekends? If people are there the whole time I would expect some of them to start becoming sick in a couple of days :(.

I live about 6-8 hours from Sturgis itself depending on which route you want to take to get there. Most people stay for a week due to over 90% of the places you can get lodging requiring a minimium 7 night stay. Especially true at those places closer to Sturgis like Deadwood, Lead, Hill City, Custer, Keystone. It is possible to get shorter stays in places like Belle Forche, Rapid City especially towards the east side, Box Elder, Pringle, and Hot Springs.

The trade off is your going to be driving 60-90 minutes each way from the towns I mentioned to any of the festivities.

A simple primer of Black Hills area pricing for lodging

Weekend following Labor Day-Weekend preceeding Memorial Day general season. A few places might go up for a few days around Thanksgiving and Christmas but it's usually less than $5-10 a night

Memorial Day Weekend-Labor Day Weekend Summer pricing. Places that might run $100 a night will go up to $120-125 a night range.

Surgis Bike Rally Pricing take summer pricing and add another $75-125 to it so easily in the $195-$250 range for a hotel room. A tent spot at a resort style campground with a half mile hike to bathrooms and showers during that week easily runs $125-150 a night. Regular summer season is $75-80 and the parts of regular season that those places are open (generally from mid to late April and again till early to mid October) for tent camping spots run $50-65 a night.

Not exact numbers but a general idea in what the fluctuation on prices are for different events throughout the year.
 
Wait you guys. We are thinking about this all wrong. They are just helping us get to herd immunity faster! How selfless of them! (Just kidding. My snarkiness level has done off the charts this year.)
 
Just keep thinking about the people who do get it and are looking at a 1500 mile motorcycle ride to get home. It is not like there are a lot of medical clinics in the area. They do not even have uber
Oh I am sure that we will see some of those especially ones from WA, OR and Northern CA in one of the hospitals in my community. So that we can deal with even more lockdowns because they are already counting numbers in my county that includes patients from other counties that do not have even a small hospital if they are hospitalized. Plus they are being counted from that county. So person from counnty T is tested as positive and is counted in county T numbers. Person ends up needing to be hospitalized in county Y and is now counted there as well as in county T.
My county is currently in a yellow status for hospital beds and equipment. Only 25% of the patients being treated for covid-19 are residents of my county the rest are all from counties that either do not have a hospital or the hospital is quite small and not able to treat anyone who needs more advanced care.

A clean break of the arm or ankle you will get lots of attention in one of those hosptials, end up with a fish hook in your hand your covered. Need a place to sleep off a bit too much indulgence well there you go just better hope the nurse on duty doesn't know your family because your going to get round 1 of the lecture right then and there about being more responsible.

Anything more and they will do what they can while waiting for either the local ambulance to transfer you to a larger hospital in my area, start the transfer and meet a crew coming from my area and do a side of road transfer, or take you to meet the emergency helicopter at a large enough parking lot or field. All of this depends on your condition as well as resources available and weather conditions.
 
I wonder how many people would attend Sturgis if they had to sign an enforceable legal document attesting to the following:

1. They understand the risk of coming down with COVID while at the rally so
2. They will self-quarantine when they get home for 2 weeks and
3. Will stay home if they get COVID so they don't risk the health of others or overburden hospitals.
 
Well that was an interesting back and forth.

As one of those frontline healthcare workers who slogged in our Covid ICUs, I appreciate the concern. It is hard to describe the experience and the vulnerability we all felt going into, and living through, that experience. Many of us are in high risk categories as well, whether it be age, medical history, body habitus, or whatever. But the vast majority of us were ok, thankfully. It was hard on us and our families, though. I still sense from people that they are a little wary of me at times imagining my ongoing exposure simply from working in a hospital, and that feels a little strange, but I understand there is fear. I haven’t done much or seen many people other than some family members (not all) so I am trying to do my part.

But a couple of thoughts. First, no one ever knows for sure where they picked up Covid, so we don’t judge. Someone could assume it was a rally when in actuality it was the grocery store. We just don’t know. Second, we’re all human and imperfect, too,. Even Dr. Fauci was pictured up close, personal and unmasked at a ball game, so there you go. But we’ve also all had our own experiences with friends and family with the disease, as well as coworkers in some cases, too. It is what it is. We simply focus on taking care of the task at hand which is to provide the best care we can for that person, as we do with everyone. I don’t resent anyone for “exposing me” - I’d be there taking care of people regardless and don’t keep tallies of where or how people became sick.

We see all kinds of situations with people and not all of them are nice. I sort of think of it as “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. So for me if I have, say, a biker at a rally, or a protester, or a partygoer, it really doesn’t matter. I’m there to do a job and I’m going to take care of that person to the best of my ability regardless of how they became sick, each and every time. That’s what we do. I had a patient recently who infected his body pretty bad from shooting up (with apparently dirty needles). He was one of my favorite patients ever and when we saw eachother after some days off we went to hug, but stopped, and touched hands momentarily instead. (Naturally, cleansed afterward.) It was touching, and that is why I do what I do. I had gotten to know him as a person and looked past the shooting up part to understand his life story and how he got to where he was, how similar our lives were in some ways, and what he needed to do to continue to live. On his day of discharge he gave me his phone number (on a tiny slip of torn paper) so we could stay in touch. (I might give him a call to check in on him now that I think of it.) He didn’t put me at risk, perse (unless you want to get really technical), but some could judge nonetheless. The only thing I care about is his getting healthy again, not what he did to land in the hospital. If that makes sense. That’s the best I can explain it. I would feel the same way taking care of bikers or protestors or partygoers too.
 
Well that was an interesting back and forth.

As one of those frontline healthcare workers who slogged in our Covid ICUs, I appreciate the concern. It is hard to describe the experience and the vulnerability we all felt going into, and living through, that experience. Many of us are in high risk categories as well, whether it be age, medical history, body habitus, or whatever. But the vast majority of us were ok, thankfully. It was hard on us and our families, though. I still sense from people that they are a little wary of me at times imagining my ongoing exposure simply from working in a hospital, and that feels a little strange, but I understand there is fear. I haven’t done much or seen many people other than some family members (not all) so I am trying to do my part.

But a couple of thoughts. First, no one ever knows for sure where they picked up Covid, so we don’t judge. Someone could assume it was a rally when in actuality it was the grocery store. We just don’t know. Second, we’re all human and imperfect, too,. Even Dr. Fauci was pictured up close, personal and unmasked at a ball game, so there you go. But we’ve also all had our own experiences with friends and family with the disease, as well as coworkers in some cases, too. It is what it is. We simply focus on taking care of the task at hand which is to provide the best care we can for that person, as we do with everyone. I don’t resent anyone for “exposing me” - I’d be there taking care of people regardless and don’t keep tallies of where or how people became sick.

We see all kinds of situations with people and not all of them are nice. I sort of think of it as “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. So for me if I have, say, a biker at a rally, or a protester, or a partygoer, it really doesn’t matter. I’m there to do a job and I’m going to take care of that person to the best of my ability regardless of how they became sick, each and every time. That’s what we do. I had a patient recently who infected his body pretty bad from shooting up (with apparently dirty needles). He was one of my favorite patients ever and when we saw eachother after some days off we went to hug, but stopped, and touched hands momentarily instead. (Naturally, cleansed afterward.) It was touching, and that is why I do what I do. I had gotten to know him as a person and looked past the shooting up part to understand his life story and how he got to where he was, how similar our lives were in some ways, and what he needed to do to continue to live. On his day of discharge he gave me his phone number (on a tiny slip of torn paper) so we could stay in touch. (I might give him a call to check in on him now that I think of it.) He didn’t put me at risk, perse (unless you want to get really technical), but some could judge nonetheless. The only thing I care about is his getting healthy again, not what he did to land in the hospital. If that makes sense. That’s the best I can explain it. I would feel the same way taking care of bikers or protestors or partygoers too.

Hear! Hear!

I laud you for your dedication to your profession. The description of the compassion you gave to your patient, heartwarming. I'll continue to do my part thinking of your post. Take care Pea-n-Me ❤
 
These folks are going to ride home. And most (all?) will immediately go back to life as usual. Shopping, dining, appointments. Because why not?
So the next several weeks may be a bit of a public health experiment.
I wonder if we'll ever know how many states they hail from. Over Memorial Day weekend I remember them showing for the Lake of the Ozarks using cell phone info people came from 14 states. I don't believe the Lake led to actual spikes in cases for that particular time period just using that as an example about locating where people come from.
 
Well that was an interesting back and forth.

As one of those frontline healthcare workers who slogged in our Covid ICUs, I appreciate the concern. It is hard to describe the experience and the vulnerability we all felt going into, and living through, that experience. Many of us are in high risk categories as well, whether it be age, medical history, body habitus, or whatever. But the vast majority of us were ok, thankfully. It was hard on us and our families, though. I still sense from people that they are a little wary of me at times imagining my ongoing exposure simply from working in a hospital, and that feels a little strange, but I understand there is fear. I haven’t done much or seen many people other than some family members (not all) so I am trying to do my part.

But a couple of thoughts. First, no one ever knows for sure where they picked up Covid, so we don’t judge. Someone could assume it was a rally when in actuality it was the grocery store. We just don’t know. Second, we’re all human and imperfect, too,. Even Dr. Fauci was pictured up close, personal and unmasked at a ball game, so there you go. But we’ve also all had our own experiences with friends and family with the disease, as well as coworkers in some cases, too. It is what it is. We simply focus on taking care of the task at hand which is to provide the best care we can for that person, as we do with everyone. I don’t resent anyone for “exposing me” - I’d be there taking care of people regardless and don’t keep tallies of where or how people became sick.

We see all kinds of situations with people and not all of them are nice. I sort of think of it as “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. So for me if I have, say, a biker at a rally, or a protester, or a partygoer, it really doesn’t matter. I’m there to do a job and I’m going to take care of that person to the best of my ability regardless of how they became sick, each and every time. That’s what we do. I had a patient recently who infected his body pretty bad from shooting up (with apparently dirty needles). He was one of my favorite patients ever and when we saw eachother after some days off we went to hug, but stopped, and touched hands momentarily instead. (Naturally, cleansed afterward.) It was touching, and that is why I do what I do. I had gotten to know him as a person and looked past the shooting up part to understand his life story and how he got to where he was, how similar our lives were in some ways, and what he needed to do to continue to live. On his day of discharge he gave me his phone number (on a tiny slip of torn paper) so we could stay in touch. (I might give him a call to check in on him now that I think of it.) He didn’t put me at risk, perse (unless you want to get really technical), but some could judge nonetheless. The only thing I care about is his getting healthy again, not what he did to land in the hospital. If that makes sense. That’s the best I can explain it. I would feel the same way taking care of bikers or protestors or partygoers too.
I just wish people had more sense so that our healthcare workers didn’t have to face this risk needlessly. In other words, we could probably avoid a lot more people getting sick in the near future had there not been 250,000 show up in Sturgis.
 
I wonder if we'll ever know how many states they hail from. Over Memorial Day weekend I remember them showing for the Lake of the Ozarks using cell phone info people came from 14 states. I don't believe the Lake led to actual spikes in cases for that particular time period just using that as an example about locating where people come from.
I think they literally come from all over the country. I know some people from New Hampshire who went as well as some in NY and NJ.
 
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