Sturgis Motorcycle Rally...HUGE Crowds expected

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Smoking has become illegal in most publicly shared spaces now because second hand smoke was proven to harm the health of others. Legal to smoke and inflict harm on ourselves; illegal to pass the harm on to surrounding citizens. The majority of our population lives under these laws in 2020.

It took decades for such laws to become in effect (especially en masse). The dangers of second hand smoke was known decades before. They didn't become laws because it was proven to harm the health of others because that was known long before. The public court of opinion shifted enough for that to become the case.

 

[Christine]

I can see your point but I think if we're talking about medical care it's not about just getting sick and passing it to someone working in the hospital. Those in the medical community can be susceptible to mental health issues or burnout. As far as smoke we know that second hand smoke exists and hurts/kills people too.

There are other decisions people make for themselves that have an effect on other people as in becomes a strain on our medical system (both physical and mental). That tends to be why other things get brought up whenever the discussion of morally should we medically treat those who contract COVID (and I would presume people are making the assumption that you can trace back the infection to a specific timeframe/event) who purposefully put themselves at risk.

You can apply these discussions to things like drug dependency (and safe injection sites), lack of precautions taken with safe sex (that lead to not only STDs but also things like HIV), vaccines, risky behavior when it comes to safety measures (like seat belts and car seats and helmets), and so many more things. These topics often come with moral discussions of how much aide people think one should have. COVID is no different with these discussions. And while one may think COVID endangers medical staff more imminently I can understand that but that's not necessarily the case with everything. Medical community-wise some doctors, nurses, etc may judgement-wise think so and so shouldn't get medical attention but their oaths they take usually override that judgement.

I actually would never advocate that people *not* be treated. My comment was merely pointing out the selfishness of those that choose to do something like Sturgis (specifically the *indoor* portions of it). It is just SO selfish. It's one thing to not worry about yourself and your own family; but THINK of the people that have to help you through it if you get seriously ill and the danger you are putting them in just so you can have a fun week. It's just not right. If I had a family member or loved one that was a healthcare worker treating COVID (and I have none in my family), I would be much more angry at these people than I already am.

 

[longboard55]

Just keep thinking about the people who do get it and are looking at a 1500 mile motorcycle ride to get home. It is not like there are a lot of medical clinics in the area. They do not even have uber

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I actually would never advocate that people *not* be treated. My comment was merely pointing out the selfishness of those that choose to do something like Sturgis (specifically the *indoor* portions of it). It is just SO selfish. It's one thing to not worry about yourself and your own family; but THINK of the people that have to help you through it if you get seriously ill and the danger you are putting them in just so you can have a fun week. It's just not right. If I had a family member or loved one that was a healthcare worker treating COVID (and I have none in my family), I would be much more angry at these people than I already am.

Your comment was

you should waive all rights to future medical treatment for the virus.

I'm not saying your opinion/viewpoint isn't something that isn't shared by others. But I can understand why people brought up the other topics. They aren't necessarily on as opposite sides of the spectrum as one might think IMO.

I have family members in healthcare (one is an LPN for well over 10 years, the other presently in training doing rotationals and one high up in accounting and is privy to incoming hospitalization numbers) but in discussions with them they have never discussed how someone who puts themselves at risk shouldn't get treatment or should sign their rights away. They express their frustrations and are not people who would shy away at telling you how they feel. To them (well the one in training is just starting to see all the various situations out there) it's morally repugnant to discuss whom should and shouldn't get treatment or choose to get treatment based on activities one does even in frustration. I don't begrudge those who just need to let it out I'm just offering their side. They don't represent all those in healthcare though and I would never want to share their viewpoints to make that sort of statement.

 

[NotUrsula]

[snip] I really hope Daytona doesn't have Biketoberfest this year, but it's Florida, so lol.

Apparently it's cancelled. I was watching interviews from Sturgis on the news, and more than one person they interviewed said that they "had" to go to Sturgis because the Florida events were cancelled.

It looks like this event is on track to leave a COVID trail throughout the entire continental US. (I live directly on Route 66; can't tell you how thrilled I am. )

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Apparently it's cancelled. I was watching interviews from Sturgis on the news, and more than one person they interviewed said that they "had" to go to Sturgis because the Florida events were cancelled.

It looks like this event is on track to leave a COVID trail throughout the entire continental US. (I live directly on Route 66; can't tell you how thrilled I am. )

I've been hearing that about various events throughout the last few months. People gravitating towards places/making plans for places where such event is occurring because their own area has cancelled it. It definitely doesn't bode well for spread that's for sure.

 

[Heather07438]

They need to swap the Harleys and beer for bricks and molotov cocktails.

That's like saying the need to swap bricks and molotov's for meth and prostitutes.

 

[elgerber]

We had to cancel our 30th anniversary trip to Hawaii. We decided to stay closer to home, rented and RV, to go, guess where? Yeah, the Black Hills...in 3 weeks. I thought for sure they would have cancelled this event, I was wrong.

 

[dsnymnkyuncle]

Covidiocy isn't a disease. But it spreads even faster than Covid.

Most of the residents wanted it cancelled. But when it comes to residents vs money.

Here's a pic of the mayor of Sturgis

View attachment 516679

Are you sure this is not Herb from WKRP?

 

[PrincessShmoo]

As long as we apply that to everyone who has ever smoked. No medical care ever.

Except that smoking diseases don't endanger others, if someone opts to take the risk.

 

[Christine]

Your comment was


I'm not saying your opinion/viewpoint isn't something that isn't shared by others. But I can understand why people brought up the other topics. They aren't necessarily on as opposite sides of the spectrum as one might think IMO.

I have family members in healthcare (one is an LPN for well over 10 years, the other presently in training doing rotationals and one high up in accounting and is privy to incoming hospitalization numbers) but in discussions with them they have never discussed how someone who puts themselves at risk shouldn't get treatment or should sign their rights away. They express their frustrations and are not people who would shy away at telling you how they feel. To them (well the one in training is just starting to see all the various situations out there) it's morally repugnant to discuss whom should and shouldn't get treatment or choose to get treatment based on activities one does even in frustration. I don't begrudge those who just need to let it out I'm just offering their side. They don't represent all those in healthcare though and I would never want to share their viewpoints to make that sort of statement.

So you don't think they have views or cares about a person who, just for kicks and grins, decides to wade into a COVID cesspool and then shows up in their presence looking to be cared for, at close range, needing services that generally requires them to HAZMAT up? It's a good thing that I'm *not* in the medical field because I don't feel like risking my life for that type of person. I still do not equate riding without a helmet, smoking, taking drugs, etc. as dangerous of a risk to me as someone who decides to flirt with COVID or Ebola or anything else highly infectious. The innocents are a different matter.

I'm pretty clear on how I see this and I'll never equate risky behavior that only causes YOU bodily harm in the same league as risky behavior that will also cause an infection to yourself and anyone that tries to help you.

 

[littlejimmy]

So you don't think they have views or cares about a person who, just for kicks and grins, decides to wade into a COVID cesspool and then shows up in their presence looking to be cared for, at close range, needing services that generally requires them to HAZMAT up? It's a good thing that I'm *not* in the medical field because I don't feel like risking my life for that type of person. I still do not equate riding without a helmet, smoking, taking drugs, etc. as dangerous of a risk to me as someone who decides to flirt with COVID or Ebola or anything else highly infectious. The innocents are a different matter.

I'm pretty clear on how I see this and I'll never equate risky behavior that only causes YOU bodily harm in the same league as risky behavior that will also cause an infection to yourself and anyone that tries to help you.

i get that. what if the behavior puts other people at risk, but not necessarily health care workers. second hand smoke kills innocents. speeding kills innocents. texting while driving kills innocents. i am sure there are many other risky behaviors that kill innocents.

 

[anthony2k7]

I know this sounds mean, but I wish that people who engaged in deliberate stupid reckless behavior like this would be denied access to a hospital if they got a bad case of Covid.

I'm actually a little surprised this isn't already the case in America with most of the healthcare being insurance based.

Usually insurance companies are quick to void policies if they can claim you were reckless in any way!

 

[Heather07438]

I'm actually a little surprised this isn't already the case in America with most of the healthcare being insurance based.

Usually insurance companies are quick to void policies if they can claim you were reckless in any way!

That's a good point, lol.

eta - What about insurance used on secondary infections. For related expenses, could they sue the person who recklessly contracted and then spread infection to their policy holder who ended up with a 200k medical tab?

The long term legacy of C19 could be litigation. Many new frontiers to conquer here that already have some type of legal precedent. Once the first few suits are brought there will be a mountain closely behind.

 

[Christine]

i get that. what if the behavior puts other people at risk, but not necessarily health care workers. second hand smoke kills innocents. speeding kills innocents. texting while driving kills innocents. i am sure there are many other risky behaviors that kill innocents.

Of course, and that's a different conversation. How does a conversation about second-hand smoke, reckless driving, etc. have anything to do with deciding to go to a huge gathering with no precautions (with the exception of the outdoor part which seems fine) and catching something that, when you have it, you put healthcare workers immediately at risk and they don't really have a choice in the matter. We have no laws against that. We do for speeding though.

That was my whole point from the first post I made: that I don't care what people do with their own health WRT COVID but, if they get it, they are seriously threatening all the healthcare workers in their path. That's just incredibly selfish and it's a shame that some doctor, nurse, lab technician, etc. is going to take on greater risk because someone wanted to go have fun in a crowd. There's just something so incredibly self-centered about that mentality.

Obviously I'm being super-dense here because I cannot neatly compare another situation out there today that fits with enjoying yourself in a pandemic, catching it, then relying on already-burdened frontline healthcare workers to take care of you and think nothing of it.

 

[mrodgers]

If they can “protest” in the streets....

Come on, you know that if you protest you will die from the virus same as if you drink a beer without a chicken wing. You have to burn cities down, loot, riot, and beat up old people and call it a protest. That's how you become immune to the virus. It's been proven with science, some people were on a beach at the same time tens of thousands were gathered burning, looting, and rioting and they proved there was a surge in just beach goers and not riotors.

You will die from Covid if you go to your vacation home, unless you are a governor. You are immune to the virus at your vacation home if you shut down your state. You will die from Covid if you go to a wedding, unless you are a governor and it's your son getting married. You'll be safe then if it's the governor's son's wedding. You will die from Covid if you had a loved one pass and go to the funeral, but if you're loved one is a meth head violent criminal and overdoses during a police encounter while doing criminal things, you will be perfectly safe to go to that funeral.

Maybe all those packed in the bar are eating a chicken wing or a french fry with their beer drinking? They should be fine.

 

[sam_gordon]

That was my whole point from the first post I made: that I don't care what people do with their own health WRT COVID but, if they get it, they are seriously threatening all the healthcare workers in their path. That's just incredibly selfish and it's a shame that some doctor, nurse, lab technician, etc. is going to take on greater risk because someone wanted to go have fun in a crowd. There's just something so incredibly self-centered about that mentality.

And as has been mentioned, someone texting, speeding, not wearing a seatbelt, etc are seriously threatening other innocent people by their own selfish acts. So no, if someone is texting and driving and gets into an accident, should healthcare be denied them? No, they're not threatening the healthcare workers, but they are threatening innocents.

 

[Christine]

And as has been mentioned, someone texting, speeding, not wearing a seatbelt, etc are seriously threatening other innocent people by their own selfish acts. So no, if someone is texting and driving and gets into an accident, should healthcare be denied them? No, they're not threatening the healthcare workers, but they are threatening innocents.

Different argument and no I don't agree with that. I'm only concerned with the direct risk, not the philosophical risk of this person in my ER hurt someone else so I won't treat them. Personally, when someone willy-nillythreatens the very life that needs to cure them, it's not even on the same plane.

But no sense continually beating this dead horse. I see it very differently than you do.

 

[penn19]

As long as we apply that to everyone who has ever smoked. No medical care ever.

I was just thinking the same thing. Put down the dang Twinkie or no open heart surgery for you! Stop drinking or there’s no way you’re getting a new liver.

 

[penn19]

Except that smoking diseases don't endanger others, if someone opts to take the risk.

Maybe not healthcare workers but second hand smoke kills people.