Sturgis Motorcycle Rally...HUGE Crowds expected

[DeniseJH]

From Chris Meloni on Twitter:

"Those who flock to beaches, bars, and political rallies, putting their fellow citizens at risk, are not exercising freedom; they are displaying, as one commentator has noted, the weakness of a people who lack both the stoicism to endure the pandemic and the fortitude to defeat it."

I agree. Just think about the sacrifices generations before us have endured - but wear a mask to help your fellow man? Nope, it's too hard and you can't tell me what to do. How sad and pathetic a people we've become.

And from Kurt Eichenwald, the absolute best statement I've seen to date on the current situation:

"What I have learned in 2020: During a pandemic, entire societies are held captive by the immovable certainties of its dumbest citizens."

 

[bcla]

The Cheyenne River Sioux are turning around anyone going through their reservation unless they are emergency services or commercial vehicles.

https://trib.com/news/state-and-reg...cle_ff7ead8d-ad7d-5130-b3ec-52426c2fa20e.htmlhttps://www.crstcoronavirusupdates.com/checkpoints/

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The Cheyenne River Sioux are turning around anyone going through their reservation unless they are emergency services or commercial vehicles.

https://trib.com/news/state-and-reg...cle_ff7ead8d-ad7d-5130-b3ec-52426c2fa20e.htmlhttps://www.crstcoronavirusupdates.com/checkpoints/

Various Indian tribes have been doing that throughout the pandemic. Ones in my area have barricaded access for many months now.

 

[nancipants]

From Chris Meloni on Twitter:

"Those who flock to beaches, bars, and political rallies, putting their fellow citizens at risk, are not exercising freedom; they are displaying, as one commentator has noted, the weakness of a people who lack both the stoicism to endure the pandemic and the fortitude to defeat it."

I agree. Just think about the sacrifices generations before us have endured - but wear a mask to help your fellow man? Nope, it's too hard and you can't tell me what to do. How sad and pathetic a people we've become.

And from Kurt Eichenwald, the absolute best statement I've seen to date on the current situation:

"What I have learned in 2020: During a pandemic, entire societies are held captive by the immovable certainties of its dumbest citizens."

I'm reading a series of books (Lady Astronaut) that takes place in an alternate timeline where a meteorite hits the ocean off the coast of DC and the entire eastern seaboard is destroyed. The main character realizes that it's an extinction event and the greenhouse effect goes on to affect the entire world. At one point, the main character is shopping with a friend and she realizes she's out of ration coupons for some ingredient she needs. I thought, holy cow, could you IMAGINE if we actually had to use ration books now? People got mad enough when stores said you could only buy one thing of toilet paper.

 

[SaintsManiac]

I'm reading a series of books (Lady Astronaut) that takes place in an alternate timeline where a meteorite hits the ocean off the coast of DC and the entire eastern seaboard is destroyed. The main character realizes that it's an extinction event and the greenhouse effect goes on to affect the entire world. At one point, the main character is shopping with a friend and she realizes she's out of ration coupons for some ingredient she needs. I thought, holy cow, could you IMAGINE if we actually had to use ration books now? People got mad enough when stores said you could only buy one thing of toilet paper.

Woah I need to read this.

 

[bcla]

Various Indian tribes have been doing that throughout the pandemic. Ones in my area have barricaded access for many months now.

I'm sure it's not the only way through, but I've seen documentaries on the Sturgis Rally that show lots of people taking various scenic routes. Normally they'd be welcome to come in and spend their money.

 

[gwynne]

I'm sure it's not the only way through, but I've seen documentaries on the Sturgis Rally that show lots of people taking various scenic routes. Normally they'd be welcome to come in and spend their money.

Very wise of them to do what they can to protect from Covid-19 spread.

 

[KayMichigan]

I'm reading a series of books (Lady Astronaut) that takes place in an alternate timeline where a meteorite hits the ocean off the coast of DC and the entire eastern seaboard is destroyed. The main character realizes that it's an extinction event and the greenhouse effect goes on to affect the entire world. At one point, the main character is shopping with a friend and she realizes she's out of ration coupons for some ingredient she needs. I thought, holy cow, could you IMAGINE if we actually had to use ration books now? People got mad enough when stores said you could only buy one thing of toilet paper.

I've said elsewhere that if you ever wondered how the current generation would deal with the privations of WWII, now you have an answer. There are large segments of the population who would flat out refuse to cooperate with rationing, shortages, blackouts, and other sacrifices. The only thing they care about is their own welfare.

"What do you mean, I can't buy all the butter and sugar and meat I want? You can't refuse to sell it to me! That's against my rights! What do you mean I have to turn off my lights if the air raid siten goes off? I'll leave them on if I want to, it's my house!" etc. etc.

 

[kdonnel]

When you smoke and get a disease and end up in the hospital, you don't endanger the health staff treating you. Not a great comparison.

A huge amount of resources are wasted that could be used to save others if people just didn't choose to smoke, just like the Sturgis visitors may waste a huge about of resources that could have been used to save others.

I see it as a very valid comparison. If the Sturgis visitors are to be refused medical treatment, any one that is found to have done something preventable should be refused medical treatment.

 

[gwynne]

A huge amount of resources are wasted that could be used to save others if people just didn't choose to smoke, just like the Sturgis visitors may waste a huge about of resources that could have been used to save others.

I see it as a very valid comparison. If the Sturgis visitors are to be refused medical treatment, any one that is found to have done something preventable should be refused medical treatment.

No pearl clutching needed.
Any infected Sturgis 2020 attendees will be able to get medical attention.
(Assuming they realize their symptoms are not a hoax...)

 

[nancipants]

Woah I need to read this.

They are great! The first one is The Calculating Stars. Author is Mary Robinette Kowal.

 

[robinb]

The Cheyenne River Sioux are turning around anyone going through their reservation unless they are emergency services or commercial vehicles.

https://trib.com/news/state-and-reg...cle_ff7ead8d-ad7d-5130-b3ec-52426c2fa20e.htmlhttps://www.crstcoronavirusupdates.com/checkpoints/

I'm glad that they are protecting themselves. Unfortunately, the article also says that the governor is suing them to take away the checkpoints.

 

[robinb]

They are great! The first one is The Calculating Stars. Author is Mary Robinette Kowal.

I read her Glamourist series. It was really good.

 

[Christine]

A huge amount of resources are wasted that could be used to save others if people just didn't choose to smoke, just like the Sturgis visitors may waste a huge about of resources that could have been used to save others.

I see it as a very valid comparison. If the Sturgis visitors are to be refused medical treatment, any one that is found to have done something preventable should be refused medical treatment.

We will have to agree to disagree. My entire discussion on the last page was about how I don't care what people do with their own bodies. If they want to ride without a helmet and scramble their brains, fine, it doesn't make the medical staff who treat you get sick and die. Want to smoke and get cancer or COPD? Fine, your disease won't kill your attending physician or ICU staff monitoring your oxygen.

This thread has never discussed overall "resources" used in treating people who participate in reckless behavior. I was talking about the absolute selfishness of participating in a behavior that will likely increase your chances of getting a contagious, novel virus. Then needing to be "helped" to live or recover with that virus and endangering those who have to help you get through it. It's quite different than a discussion on the cost burden to healthcare by reckless behaviors. A worthy discussion, for sure, but not having to do with directly endangering your caretakers.

 

[robinb]

My entire discussion on the last page was about how I don't care what people do with their own bodies. If they want to ride without a helmet and scramble their brains, fine, it doesn't make the medical staff who treat you get sick and die.

FWIW, they just don't hurt themselves by not wearing their helmets. My father was in a motorcycle accident without a helmet and was paralyzed from a broken neck before he died months later in the hospital. He was 35. My mother, a SAHM, was left to raise 2 young children alone without a means of supporting herself. His "choice" shattered our family and plunged us into near poverty.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

FWIW, they just don't hurt themselves by not wearing their helmets. My father was in a motorcycle accident without a helmet and was paralyzed from a broken neck before he died months later in the hospital. He was 35. My mother, a SAHM, was left to raise 2 young children alone without a means of supporting herself. His "choice" shattered our family and plunged us into near poverty.

Same for those who don't wear seat belts. A person who doesn't wear a seat belt can become a projectile in the event of an accident, injuring or killing a passenger. And the ripple effect can happen there too.

 

[Christine]

FWIW, they just don't hurt themselves by not wearing their helmets. My father was in a motorcycle accident without a helmet and was paralyzed from a broken neck before he died months later in the hospital. He was 35. My mother, a SAHM, was left to raise 2 young children alone without a means of supporting herself. His "choice" shattered our family and plunged us into near poverty.

I totally *get* that. Both KDonnell and sam_gordon tried to equate my statement of not treating "willful" COVID patients because of their risk to the medical community to mean that your father should have not received medical care because of his choice. When your father elected to ride without a helmet, he certainly endangered his own wife and children, but not the medical staff who treated him, who had no choice but to treat him.

As I said, I watched a tribute last week to an ICU doctor who caught the virus he was treating people for. How must any healthcare worker or their families feel when someone deliberately and cavalierly puts themselves in the direct path of catching the virus.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/corona...0200727-qbb4ebvnizdvtpkk4octd27tda-story.html

 

[kdonnel]

No pearl clutching needed.
Any infected Sturgis 2020 attendees will be able to get medical attention.
(Assuming they realize their symptoms are not a hoax...)

I was trying to be ridiculous in my response to the suggestion that medical attention should be refused to the attendees. Medical attention should not be refused no matter the ideological difference that may have possibly created/caused the medical issue.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

We will have to agree to disagree. My entire discussion on the last page was about how I don't care what people do with their own bodies. If they want to ride without a helmet and scramble their brains, fine, it doesn't make the medical staff who treat you get sick and die. Want to smoke and get cancer or COPD? Fine, your disease won't kill your attending physician or ICU staff monitoring your oxygen.

This thread has never discussed overall "resources" used in treating people who participate in reckless behavior. I was talking about the absolute selfishness of participating in a behavior that will likely increase your chances of getting a contagious, novel virus. Then needing to be "helped" to live or recover with that virus and endangering those who have to help you get through it. It's quite different than a discussion on the cost burden to healthcare by reckless behaviors. A worthy discussion, for sure, but not having to do with directly endangering your caretakers.

I can see your point but I think if we're talking about medical care it's not about just getting sick and passing it to someone working in the hospital. Those in the medical community can be susceptible to mental health issues or burnout. As far as smoke we know that second hand smoke exists and hurts/kills people too.

There are other decisions people make for themselves that have an effect on other people as in becomes a strain on our medical system (both physical and mental). That tends to be why other things get brought up whenever the discussion of morally should we medically treat those who contract COVID (and I would presume people are making the assumption that you can trace back the infection to a specific timeframe/event) who purposefully put themselves at risk.

You can apply these discussions to things like drug dependency (and safe injection sites), lack of precautions taken with safe sex (that lead to not only STDs but also things like HIV), vaccines, risky behavior when it comes to safety measures (like seat belts and car seats and helmets), and so many more things. These topics often come with moral discussions of how much aide people think one should have. COVID is no different with these discussions. And while one may think COVID endangers medical staff more imminently I can understand that but that's not necessarily the case with everything. Medical community-wise some doctors, nurses, etc may judgement-wise think so and so shouldn't get medical attention but their oaths they take usually override that judgement.

 

[Heather07438]

Smoking has become illegal in most publicly shared spaces now because second hand smoke was proven to harm the health of others. Legal to smoke and inflict harm on ourselves; illegal to pass the harm on to surrounding citizens. The majority of our population lives under these laws in 2020.

Maybe those returning from very high risk activities should need to quarantine, at least to minimize the harm passed on. Risk should consider both likelihood of transmission and the scale. Sturgis' environment is very conducive to mass infection spread with high likelihood to seed infection locally and to hometowns nationwide as attendees return.

Lately it's occurred to me the problem at this point isn't that the masses don't know how to reduce spread, it is that too many don't understand the why. It'd be helpful if public messages not only outlined how we all can make better choices that limit spread opportunity but also outlined the reasons why this best serves all interests.