Mary•Poppins;38482437 said:
I personally think 8 colleges is too many to be applying to ...
I agree. A student who's applying to 8 colleges hasn't been selective enough. 3-4 is a good number. My daughter is a junior, and we've talked about her choices. She has it narrowed down to 6. We're going to visit those and she'll apply to 3-4. Also, we aren't telling her she can go ANYWHERE -- money is an object, distance is a consideration, and we have to consider those things.
Has she said WHY she has chosen those schools?
Yes, I was wondering the same thing. You've mentioned some big-name schools, but I can't see anything that they have in common. This seems odd to me. I'd ask her what has attracted her to each of these schools. If she can't be specific, then she needs to do more research before applying. The more research you do ahead of time, the better your chances of choosing a school that's a good match . . . the better the match, the better the chance of graduating and the lesser the chance of transfering.
While it isn't unreasonable to apply to a "reach" school or two, the list shouldn't be loaded with reach schools.
I agree. My own daughter is applying to ONE "reach school", one "dream school". Application fees run $50-60, and I am not going to finance multiple long-shots -- that's a good bit of money towards a housing deposit or textbooks.
Also, my daughter's not particularly well-grounded in her desire to attend this reach school. She wants it because it's a big-name school with a great football team, and she would love to go there to be part of the craziness that surrounds college football. She loves the location, the school colors -- but we can't pay out-of-state tuition for those things. She understands this, and she knows that unless a really great scholarship falls into her lap, this school will remain a dream.
I don't think 8 schools are too many, it seems like a good number to me. Personally, I would be too paranoid to pick only 4 because I think even prepared students find a lot of surprises come admissions time. But I really like have options "just in case".
I can see that this could be true in some specific cases, but IF you've made realistic choices, you're not likely to be turned down by 4 schools.
You can easily check online to see the average GPA/SAT at State U. If your child falls within that average (isn't scraping the bottom edge) and if you apply early in the school year, you're not likely to be disappointed.
On the other hand, if you have a strong-average student and are applying ONLY to the biggest-name, most competative schools . . . you may be turned down. The point is that you should choose schools that're a good fit for your student -- don't just apply because you know it's a good school.
Yes this is part of our frustration!! Especially when she could attend Pitt for a discount since her dad works for them!
It's perfectly okay to say, "This is what we can contribute -- no more", and it's realistic to discuss the impact that loans would have on her future.
For example, we've told our daughters that we can afford 4 years at an in-state public school: tuition, dorm, meal plan and books. We cannot afford a private school, an out-of-state school, summer school, or an apartment. If they want to "upgrade" to those choices, we'll give them the amount we've agreed to pay . . . and they'll have to do the rest themselves. We happen to live in a state with excellent public universities (better than most of the private ones), so they have plenty of good choices.
Does she realize it will be very difficult for her to get into these schools?
More than that, if she gets into these top-notch schools with average SAT score, she's going to constantly be running at full-speed trying to keep up. High schoolers tend to see GETTING IN as the ultimate goal, but the real goal is STAYING IN and BEING SUCCESSFUL. I'd rather see my girls attend a school where they're the "middle student", not the one who just barely was accepted.
How does that stack up against these schools' average student? Here in NC, our students who attend the most competative schools (UNC, Duke, etc.) tend to have way over a 4, which means they've made lots of As in AP classes. Here a 3.95 will absolutely get you into a very good state school (NC State, Wilmington, Ap), but it won't get you into the very competative schools -- and you're talking about schools in the very competative range.
That gives her a lopsided profile - high gpa and lower SATs. Again, there are parents who have gone through and are going through it now over on college confidential.
Yeah, that means either she's a very diligent worker who doesn't test particularly well . . . or she's a good student who is taking general classes. These aren't necessarily deal-breakers, but the lopsidedness IS a red flag.
When do we have to fill out the FAFSA application? I have a Junior
As soon as humanly possible in January of your child's high school senior year. Then every January afterward.
OP, that sounds like a tough situation. Your SDD is really not being realistic with her applications and her score.
Which puts her in the majority! Most seniors are confused by the process. They don't particularly grasp what information is provided for them in school, and their parents often aren't privy to the school-provided info.
Also, don't shop for colleges based on price alone. Each school, especially private schools, has their own way of handing out money. Private schools have large endowments and give more aid than pubic schools often making the private schools less expensive than the state schools.
I'm reading a book on how to find college money right now, and it basically verifies what I've seen in my 19 years of teaching seniors: This private-school-will-give-you-more-money concept is SOMETIMES true, but for the vast majority of kids, it won't pan out. The book basically says that IF you're a top-notch student, the less-competative private schools may offer you this kind of deal to entice you to attend their school rather than a more prestigious college.
I'd say try for this kind of deal . . . but don't be surprised if it doesn't work out. Go into the search knowing that it's a long shot.
First off, relax. Unless she is going for early admission, you don't need to stress until after January.
I disagree. THIS is the time of year that most college students send in their applications, and at THIS time of year the freshman class is still wide open. After January, when many students have already been accepted, the number of available slots will be smaller, and the chances of being accepted -- especially to a school that was something of a reach -- diminish.
I'm thinking specifically of one of my favorite students last year who made a small mistake: He didn't initially have his SAT scores sent to I-wanna-go-there-so-bad-University, but he went online and had them "added on". Something went wrong, they didn't send the scores . . . he admitted that he should've checked to see that they had everything, but he just figured it was all okay. Bottom line: It was January before he realized that Wanna-go-U didn't have his SAT scores. They admitted him . . . for the SPRING SEMESTER, not the fall. He ended up going elsewhere, and he was a top-top student.
If your DH works for a college there is a very good chance she can get the same discounted tuition at other schools around the nation too if they belong to the consortium that offers reciprocity for tuition. Have him check with the HR department.
This is DEFINITELY worth a chance! She should realize just how much free/discounted tuition could mean to her.
Here's the reality of the situation as it stands right now:
1. The odds are that she will enter in one major program and leave in that same major program are very slim. Picking a school that is well rounded in MANY things is a much better choice.
2. She needs to realistically look at salaries and job availability in the field she's planning on, and what the future of that field is. For example, with Journalism, the day of paper media is ending. What does that mean for her career prospects?
3. I wish my parents had been firmer and said "you WILL be doing 2 years at community college and doing all your gen eds and 'finding yourself' there for $5000 a year instead of $45000 a year." I would have fought hard but been thankful for it later.
4. If I could do it all over again, I would have gone in state, gotten a similar education for less money. More expensive is not necessarily better.
I didn't understand then what it meant to have a $500/mo student loan payment for the next 15 years of my life. I figured I'd be making bank like every adult seems to and I'd be rolling in money. Well, now I'm not, and it truly sucks.
Of course, if she doesn't reach for some lesser schools, she may end up at community college by default. With that SAT score, and what I'm guessing is an average GPA, she won't get into most of them.
Excellent advice -- it's very much what I preach to my seniors all the time! Many of them especially don't grasp that student loans WILL impact their lives in the future. They seem to have the idea that they'll come out of school making $$$$ instantly, and paying the student loan will just mean foregoing a couple meals out every month. They don't "get" that it can mean delaying homeownership, driving a used car instead of a new one (for decades), delaying a wedding and children.
I don't know that I'd flat-out tell my child, "You MUST attend community college to start with", but I would definitely direct them towards less-expensive options.
I don't know how much it costs to apply (and I'm kind of afraid to find out
) but what if you told her that she and her mom need to cover the application costs, and you will reimburse her for every school that accepts her? If you force them to put their own money on the line, they might not be so eager to apply to those "snowball's chance" schools.
Great idea!
Here's what I would do. Let her choose her own colleges to apply to, but within perameters. These are the guidelines we gave our son.
* give her a budget of $500 for application expenses.
* Tell her you expect that 75% of her applications will be to colleges where her scores fall above the 25% of accepted students.
* Tell her the maximum you can afford per year. Our son knows that if his expenses are going to be over 22K a year, including transportation etc., he has to get quite a chunk of financial aide/merit aide to consider those schools. Basically, we can pay what it costs to go to a state school and he'll have to make up the rest.
I never considered a budget for admissions expenses, but I can see the benefits. Right now we're in the "visiting" stage, which you might consider an admissions expense. I've told my daughter that I'll take her to any in-state school to visit . . . once. Then she can go back on her own (or with friends) to visit the ones that "make the cut" a second or third time. She's filled my calendar.
I know everyone has talked about grades, and SATs-but what else does she have on her resume-activites? a job? music? sports?
Yeah, as a teacher who fills out LOADS of college recommendations every year, I can attest to the fact that MANY of our excellent students can boast of good GPAs, SATs, AP classes . . . but when you ask them about leadership experience, community activities, and -- worst of all -- community service, many of them have little to say. It does knock them out of the top-top schools, and it is the nail in the coffin of scholarships.
OP ~ there are also many colleges that will waive application fees for 1. applying online or 2. if you do an official visit or 3. if you visit during an open house., and there may be other reasons, too. My kids applied to six schools between them and we never paid an application fee.
Around here we have a free application week, though it comes a little late for my taste -- I think it's in November. Our guidance department sponsors an evening workshop for parents/students. They hold it in the computer lab so they can actually submit applications (or start the process) that night.
Next year when my daughter's a senior, I want her to submit her applications for her 3-4 really-want-em-schools EARLY in the senior year, but I might encourage her to file a few more for free later.
I don't think she should apply to schools that she has little or no chance of getting into. It's a waste of time and money, when she should be devoting herself to getting into a college that is suited to her academically and financially.
I agree. Also, there's the disapointment factor to consider. Receiving a "thanks, but no thanks" letter hurts. Receiving a mailbox full would be very painful, especially to a young person.
I actually talked to my daughter about this. She's planning on applying to one school where I guestimate her admission chances around 50-50. Everywhere else, including her reach school (reach because of money), I know she'll be admitted. I asked her how she'd feel if she received a bad letter, and she admitted that it would probably wreck her day . . . but she'd be fine in the long run. Learning to accept disappointment without crumbling is an important skill, and I would not protect the child from all rejections . . . but I also wouldn't set her up for multiple emotional assaults.
She really needs to try and boost her score.
