Starting down the college path for my kids, clueless!

[golfgal]

So we both (her mom & dh, myself) fill out the FAFSA thing? In their divorce decree college was never mentioned. We do pay child support though.
We are frustrated too because the ONLY visit she did was with us, going to Pitt. She lives out there, but they can't make the time to visit any of those schools, but oh yeah, can I have your cc# to apply to see if I could get in?
All of this while her mom just sits back and is going to make us out the bad guys, because we are not just applying to NYU & Berkley for kicks!

Mom will be asked how much child support she gets. If you provide more than 50% of her support, they will ask for your financial information but since she doesn't live with you, that probably isn't the case. Any chance she is visiting in the next month or so or are you going out there and you can do all of this in person and you can sit down with her have have a good heart to heart about being realistic? There is nothing wrong with applying to reach schools at, especially NYU because it is easier to get into a selective school from out of state but just to apply anywhere just because is foolish. No way in HECK would I give a CC number to her either.

A lot of kids don't do any college visits and while I don't agree with that, it happens and they end up fine.

 

[golfgal]

From the FAFSA website about "parents":

If your parents are married, answer the questions about both parents.

If your parent is widowed or single, answer only the questions about that parent.

If your parents have divorced or separated, answer only the questions about the parent that you lived with most during the last 12 months. If you did not live with one parent more than the other, answer only the questions about the parent who provided most of your financial support during the last 12 months.

If your parent has remarried after being widowed or divorced, answer the questions about both your parent and your stepparent.

If you have a legal guardian, you cannot use your legal guardian's information on your application. A legal guardian is not considered a parent in the financial aid process.

If you have foster parents, you cannot use your foster parent's information on your application. A foster parent is not considered a parent in the financial aid process.

If you were adopted, follow the instructions above for parents, based on your parents' current marital status.

Note: The following people are not considered parents on this form unless they have legally adopted you: grandparents, foster parents, legal guardians, older brothers or sisters, and uncles or aunts.

 

[agnes!]

I would be investigating any viable community college options on my own, both in California and where you live...if the ex & your husband's daughter both refuse to listen?, then about all you can do is be prepared for a worst-case ("I didn't get into any of my top choices and the ones I did get into cost too much!") scenario. This girl might end up going to community college for two years and then transferring. I would also know ALL the application deadlines for Pitt, for its satellite campuses, for any programs there she might want to apply to...if she doesn't get in to any/all of those dream schools, then you'll have the information she can use to apply to Pitt.

Colleges will look at the disparity between her quite-high grades and her low-to-middling test scores and either conclude she has some type of test-taking anxiety (not very likely) or that her GPA suffers from a rampant case of grade inflation (much more likely).

agnes!

 

[golfgal]

I am curious on this too.

If YOU have to fill it out you do it ASAP in January. You can select "will file 1040" and estimate based on your pay stubs income, etc. We did a free online Turbo Tax tax form, got the numbers and plugged those into the FAFSA then once we got our actual taxes back from the CPA, amended the FAFSA. Each state has a deadline for full consideration for financial aid so make sure you look that up too.

Also, don't shop for colleges based on price alone. Each school, especially private schools, has their own way of handing out money. Private schools have large endowments and give more aid than pubic schools often making the private schools less expensive than the state schools. It also sounds like living on campus some where will be beneficial for your step-DD, making her grow up a little.

 

[SondraC]

Take a look at this collegeconfidential thread: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pittsburgh/998698-does-pitt-offer-journalism.html
Pitt-Johnstown has a journalism program, Pitt used to offer a journalism major but now apparently offers a journalism track within their English Department.

And yes, I do think you're correct in your assessment of her SAT scores, I'm afraid they seem low to me for most of the schools mentioned. She should take the ACTs, they are biased towards women (don't ask me why, that is anecdotal from a relative who worked with a college info website). Also, if she is interesetd in *ANY* California state schools, she MUST get her apps in as soon as possible. Last year California cut off in-state admission applications in November.

I disagree with tvguy. Applying to 4 is too little, I think that she should apply to at least 6...some 'reach' schools, some safe schools, some the-bottom-has-fallen-out-of-my-world schools. She should also apply to a range of different types - some state(in-state) schools, some out-of-state/state schools, some private schools. Many private schools are in better financial shape than the seemingly less-expensive states (California state budget crunch anyone?) & they have more endowments to fund student-aid with.

agnes!

I missed this post last night! I didn't know that about Pitt @ Johnstown. When we did the campus visit (main), they just said they didn't have an actual journalism program, and we assumed they meant all of Pitt.

 

[punkin]

Pitt isn't exactly easy to get into anymore either. A 1500 puts her well below the 25% of students (per college board numbers). None of the schools on her list seem particularly good shots given her scores.

She should consider other options. California state schools come in a variety of tiers, No need to focus on the tippy top of that system. Also one of Penn State's small satellite campuses might take her with a transfer option to the main college after two years.

...and 8 schools is not too many. My DD applied to 11 last year. We were shooting for 10, but decided to add in another safety school at the last minute because the app was free and easy.

ETA: When I say 25%, I mean that only 25% had scores below that number and her scores are even lower than that.

 

[kwitcherkicken99]

Also, if she does decide & get into a school what happens then? Is income looked at both parents to determine aid? Is this all submitted somewhere on a national site?
Thoughts?? Opinions??

First off, relax. Unless she is going for early admission, you don't need to stress until after January.

Once you get your tax papers (W-2) from this year (January 2011) you will need to fill out and submit a FAFSA. That will be the basis on which financial aid packages are decided by the schools.

Get her going on scholarships. It's a little slow at the moment, but there are some good ones out there right now and you don't want her to miss out, especially if she's eyeing NYU...

A site I browse often is collegeboard.com.

Good luck!

 

[golfgal]

I missed this post last night! I didn't know that about Pitt @ Johnstown. When we did the campus visit (main), they just said they didn't have an actual journalism program, and we assumed they meant all of Pitt.

Keep in mind that there is a VERY good chance she will change her major anyway so don't get too hung up on selecting a college that has a good journalism major. You want to find one with a good program but make sure associated programs are good too, English, etc. Almost every college will help you create your own program if they don't offer exactly what you want too.

If your DH works for a college there is a very good chance she can get the same discounted tuition at other schools around the nation too if they belong to the consortium that offers reciprocity for tuition. Have him check with the HR department.

 

[allison443]

The financial conversation needs to happen asap. Run an online EFC calculator, or plug your numbers into a sample fafsa. If your stepdaughter is not going to be eligible for any financial aid, or if the expected family contribution is high, your dh, his daughter, and his ex need to discuss things.

For example, you said NYU is on her list. That costs over $50k a year including room and board. Plus her costs to get back home to California a couple times a year...and NYU is notorious for not being great with financial aid.

I don't think eight schools is too many, especially if some of the school don't notify until March. (at that point if the student gets some rejections it would be too late to apply to others as a backup plan). There are no real hard and fast cutoffs for most schools, although there are definitely guidelines on collegeboard.com and usually the college's own website. However, this can change from year to year depending on number of applications, etc. Just ask all the kids who were rejected from Virginia state schools and SUNY Binghamton in the last couple of years, when in the past their scores would have more than qualified them.

I think the California schools like Berkeley have certain admission requirements like certain courses need to be taken, and they have a formula for converting gpas and test scores. It looks like Berkeley also requires two SAT subject tests. Has your stepdaughter taken those? Here's the link to Berkeley http://catalog.berkeley.edu/undergrad/admission.html

It is unfortunate that her mom doesn't seem to be taking an active role. However, given that, the daughter herself should be finding out what she needs to do, etc. There is so much info online, I'm sure her school has a guidance office, her friends are probably applying to colleges.

Good luck with the process.

 

[golfgal]

First off, relax. Unless she is going for early admission, you don't need to stress until after January.

Once you get your tax papers (W-2) from this year (January 2011) you will need to fill out and submit a FAFSA. That will be the basis on which financial aid packages are decided by the schools.

Get her going on scholarships. It's a little slow at the moment, but there are some good ones out there right now and you don't want her to miss out, especially if she's eyeing NYU...

A site I browse often is collegeboard.com.

Good luck!

This isn't really the case in California right now from what other's are saying. Many of the schools closed admissions before Christmas for this year's freshman class. Most schools here close admissions Feb 1st so the sooner you apply, the more likely you are to get in, especially if they have rolling admissions.

 

[SondraC]

Pitt isn't exactly easy to get into anymore either. A 1500 puts her well below the 25% of students (per college board numbers). None of the schools on her list seem particularly good shots given her scores.

She should consider other options. California state schools come in a variety of tiers, No need to focus on the tippy top of that system. Also one of Penn State's small satellite campuses might take her with a transfer option to the main college after two years.

...and 8 schools is not too many. My DD applied to 11 last year. We were shooting for 10, but decided to add in another safety school at the last minute because the app was free and easy.

ETA: When I say 25%, I mean that only 25% had scores below that number and he scores are even lower than that.

We are curious about her next set of scores, she takes them again this Saturday. She didn't even want to take them, she thinks her first ones are not too bad.

First off, relax. Unless she is going for early admission, you don't need to stress until after January.

Once you get your tax papers (W-2) from this year (January 2011) you will need to fill out and submit a FAFSA. That will be the basis on which financial aid packages are decided by the schools.

Get her going on scholarships. It's a little slow at the moment, but there are some good ones out there right now and you don't want her to miss out, especially if she's eyeing NYU...

A site I browse often is collegeboard.com.

Good luck!

I think there has been too much relaxing on their side already!

Keep in mind that there is a VERY good chance she will change her major anyway so don't get too hung up on selecting a college that has a good journalism major. You want to find one with a good program but make sure associated programs are good too, English, etc. Almost every college will help you create your own program if they don't offer exactly what you want too.

If your DH works for a college there is a very good chance she can get the same discounted tuition at other schools around the nation too if they belong to the consortium that offers reciprocity for tuition. Have him check with the HR department.

I tried to bring that up about not just focusing on which schools have journalism, in case she changes, but was quickly shot down by her & her mom.
Also, dh works for UPMC the health care system affiliated with Pitt, so not Pitt directly.

The financial conversation needs to happen asap. Run an online EFC calculator, or plug your numbers into a sample fafsa. If your stepdaughter is not going to be eligible for any financial aid, or if the expected family contribution is high, your dh, his daughter, and his ex need to discuss things.

For example, you said NYU is on her list. That costs over $50k a year including room and board. Plus her costs to get back home to California a couple times a year...and NYU is notorious for not being great with financial aid.

I don't think eight schools is too many, especially if some of the school don't notify until March. (at that point if the student gets some rejections it would be too late to apply to others as a backup plan). There are no real hard and fast cutoffs for most schools, although there are definitely guidelines on collegeboard.com and usually the college's own website. However, this can change from year to year depending on number of applications, etc. Just ask all the kids who were rejected from Virginia state schools and SUNY Binghamton in the last couple of years, when in the past their scores would have more than qualified them.

I think the California schools like Berkeley have certain admission requirements like certain courses need to be taken, and they have a formula for converting gpas and test scores. It looks like Berkeley also requires two SAT subject tests. Has your stepdaughter taken those? Here's the link to Berkeley http://catalog.berkeley.edu/undergrad/admission.html

It is unfortunate that her mom doesn't seem to be taking an active role. However, given that, the daughter herself should be finding out what she needs to do, etc. There is so much info online, I'm sure her school has a guidance office, her friends are probably applying to colleges.

Good luck with the process.

Thanks for all this info! I will look into the Berkley requirements, that might change that right there.

 

[SC Minnie]

DD is a junior. We had the money conversation a while back- what we can afford to contribute and what she would be left with (either to find scholarships or loans). She has had some time to rein in her expectations on where she can realistically afford to apply. DD has very good grades (close to a 4.0 unweighted) and did well on the PSAT- she is taking the SAT soon. I sat down with her and went through collegeboard.com . We looked at the schools that offered what she wanted to major in (that was another long discussion), where they were, what scores were needed to get in, and the cost. We have a meeting with her guidance counselor next week to go over her 'plan'.

I did the fafsa calculater and the amount that they said we should be able to contribute was laughable. We wouldn't be able to actually have shelter and food. We started contributing to a college tuition prepayment plan when DD was 4. She now has her tuition paid for at an in state school. If she chooses a private school or out of state she will have to find the money.

 

[WheresFigment?]

Here's my take from someone who just graduated college, has about $50k in debt, and really, really wishes she didn't:

I knew everything when I was 17, and I flat out refused to go to community college. I felt that it was for people who couldn't hack it at a real school. Same for our local state university-- only the kids who couldn't get into a "real" school went there.

So, I, being all knowing, picked a school that cost $40k a year, and my parents said yes.

I sailed the high Cs, low Bs for most of my college career, didn't really love the school, etc. Graduated a year ago, can't find a solid job because of the economy. Now I'm spending another $50k to go back to school for something I can get a job in.

Here's the reality of the situation as it stands right now:

1. The odds are that she will enter in one major program and leave in that same major program are very slim. Picking a school that is well rounded in MANY things is a much better choice.

2. She needs to realistically look at salaries and job availability in the field she's planning on, and what the future of that field is. For example, with Journalism, the day of paper media is ending. What does that mean for her career prospects?

3. I wish my parents had been firmer and said "you WILL be doing 2 years at community college and doing all your gen eds and 'finding yourself' there for $5000 a year instead of $45000 a year." I would have fought hard but been thankful for it later.

4. If I could do it all over again, I would have gone in state, gotten a similar education for less money. More expensive is not necessarily better.

I didn't understand then what it meant to have a $500/mo student loan payment for the next 15 years of my life. I figured I'd be making bank like every adult seems to and I'd be rolling in money. Well, now I'm not, and it truly sucks.

Of course, if she doesn't reach for some lesser schools, she may end up at community college by default. With that SAT score, and what I'm guessing is an average GPA, she won't get into most of them.

 

[djm195]

Great thread.

My daughter is applying to schools this fall...everything must be completed by October 15th for early decision . Thanks for the collegeconfidential site. That is awesome.

Best wishes to your SDD Sondra. I'm sure she'll do just fine.

djm

 

[golfgal]

Here's my take from someone who just graduated college, has about $50k in debt, and really, really wishes she didn't:

I knew everything when I was 17, and I flat out refused to go to community college. I felt that it was for people who couldn't hack it at a real school. Same for our local state university-- only the kids who couldn't get into a "real" school went there.

So, I, being all knowing, picked a school that cost $40k a year, and my parents said yes.

I sailed the high Cs, low Bs for most of my college career, didn't really love the school, etc. Graduated a year ago, can't find a solid job because of the economy. Now I'm spending another $50k to go back to school for something I can get a job in.

Here's the reality of the situation as it stands right now:

1. The odds are that she will enter in one major program and leave in that same major program are very slim. Picking a school that is well rounded in MANY things is a much better choice.

2. She needs to realistically look at salaries and job availability in the field she's planning on, and what the future of that field is. For example, with Journalism, the day of paper media is ending. What does that mean for her career prospects?

3. I wish my parents had been firmer and said "you WILL be doing 2 years at community college and doing all your gen eds and 'finding yourself' there for $5000 a year instead of $45000 a year." I would have fought hard but been thankful for it later.

4. If I could do it all over again, I would have gone in state, gotten a similar education for less money. More expensive is not necessarily better.

I didn't understand then what it meant to have a $500/mo student loan payment for the next 15 years of my life. I figured I'd be making bank like every adult seems to and I'd be rolling in money. Well, now I'm not, and it truly sucks.

Of course, if she doesn't reach for some lesser schools, she may end up at community college by default. With that SAT score, and what I'm guessing is an average GPA, she won't get into most of them.

I think THIS is her problem, not the economy, not that she chose a more expensive school. Had her grades been better she would have qualified for scholarships/aid from the school/outside sources and probably wouldn't have had that much debt AND probably would have been able to find a job.

 

[SC Minnie]

Here's my take from someone who just graduated college, has about $50k in debt, and really, really wishes she didn't:

I knew everything when I was 17, and I flat out refused to go to community college. I felt that it was for people who couldn't hack it at a real school. Same for our local state university-- only the kids who couldn't get into a "real" school went there.

So, I, being all knowing, picked a school that cost $40k a year, and my parents said yes.

I sailed the high Cs, low Bs for most of my college career, didn't really love the school, etc. Graduated a year ago, can't find a solid job because of the economy. Now I'm spending another $50k to go back to school for something I can get a job in.

Here's the reality of the situation as it stands right now:

1. The odds are that she will enter in one major program and leave in that same major program are very slim. Picking a school that is well rounded in MANY things is a much better choice.

2. She needs to realistically look at salaries and job availability in the field she's planning on, and what the future of that field is. For example, with Journalism, the day of paper media is ending. What does that mean for her career prospects?

3. I wish my parents had been firmer and said "you WILL be doing 2 years at community college and doing all your gen eds and 'finding yourself' there for $5000 a year instead of $45000 a year." I would have fought hard but been thankful for it later.

4. If I could do it all over again, I would have gone in state, gotten a similar education for less money. More expensive is not necessarily better.

I didn't understand then what it meant to have a $500/mo student loan payment for the next 15 years of my life. I figured I'd be making bank like every adult seems to and I'd be rolling in money. Well, now I'm not, and it truly sucks.

Of course, if she doesn't reach for some lesser schools, she may end up at community college by default. With that SAT score, and what I'm guessing is an average GPA, she won't get into most of them.

Your #2-- A couple of months ago I sat down with DD and we looked up starting salaries in the field we wanted. She thought it was pretty good pay. I did a work sheet for her- salary/month, took out taxes, rent, car payment for a cheap used car, groceries, electricity, student loan payment etc, etc. It was a HUGE eye opener. At the end of the 'month' she was actually in the hole.

After that exercise she broadened her major.

 

[tlbwriter]

I don't know how much it costs to apply (and I'm kind of afraid to find out ) but what if you told her that she and her mom need to cover the application costs, and you will reimburse her for every school that accepts her? If you force them to put their own money on the line, they might not be so eager to apply to those "snowball's chance" schools.

 

[golfgal]

I don't know how much it costs to apply (and I'm kind of afraid to find out ) but what if you told her that she and her mom need to cover the application costs, and you will reimburse her for every school that accepts her? If you force them to put their own money on the line, they might not be so eager to apply to those "snowball's chance" schools.

THAT is a GREAT idea!!! Application fees can be anywhere from free to $100+.

 

[WheresFigment?]

I think THIS is her problem, not the economy, not that she chose a more expensive school. Had her grades been better she would have qualified for scholarships/aid from the school/outside sources and probably wouldn't have had that much debt AND probably would have been able to find a job.

Actually, not so much.

I spent three summers in prestigious internships, despite my grades which were above average for my program, and had a firm offer from the company I spent 2 summers with until they entered a hiring freeze that they have been in for 15 months now.

As far as scholarships, also nice try, but my school offered a maximum of $8000 a year in merit based aid, and I actually had that scholarship and kept it all four years. I also had external scholarships as well. They covered about 25% of my tuition and expenses, my parents paid half, and I took the remaining 25% in loans. That is fairly typical of most people's plan to pay for college, if you think about it.

I suppose I could have worked full time, gone to school at night, all while raising 3 kids and walking uphill both ways 3 miles in the snow, but the fact is I didn't and my ability to get a job has little to do with my grades and everything to do with 11% unemployment, major mergers by employers in my field, and hiring freezes.

Also, my lower grades were due in part to the fact that I was a double major and actually graduated on time. Most people don't do either of those things.

Of course, neither degree was in something I actually wanted to do and instead was what in my parents felt would be a good choice for me, so now I'm going back to do what I really wanted to do. At least I'm not sitting on my butt complaining about not being able to get a job I want-- I am going back to school, getting good grades by the way, and have excellent job prospects.

 

[SondraC]

I don't know how much it costs to apply (and I'm kind of afraid to find out ) but what if you told her that she and her mom need to cover the application costs, and you will reimburse her for every school that accepts her? If you force them to put their own money on the line, they might not be so eager to apply to those "snowball's chance" schools.

That is a great idea! It looks like they are all right around $60-70 each.