Starting down the college path for my kids, clueless!

[SondraC]

Us: "Whoa, wait a minute! We never said anything like that, we just don't think you picked schools for the correct reason, and also ones that are more likely to get a yes from."

Sdd: "I don't understand you got on me to get going on this, so I call you on Tuesday with MY (Yelling) choices, and this isn't good enough either." (she is pretty much bawling and really starting to throw a fit) "And now I am running out of time, because some of my schools have to have it by next month!"

Us: "You need to calm down, and stop talking that way to us. You are not being fair to us."
I then said to her "you know everything I have helped you with. Remember when you where here in spring & then again for the summer visit? I spent so much time looking at schools online with you, showing you how to look up info about them. We have been saying for the past year lets get going on this! 6 months ago we took you for your ONLY school visit!"

Sdd: (very sarcastic) "Well, it is now the present, not 6 months ago and I have to get this done before I run out of time! I don't understand why you guys are doing this. You wanted me to get going, and it is MY choice to go where I want to go, no one can decide but me!"

Meanwhile the ex (her mom) has said NOTHING during this!

Us: "Oh, have you won the lottery to pay for all of this?"

Sdd gets even more made starts flipping out, and gets off the phone.
Just us & the ex now

Us: (to ex)" Do you not realize that most of her choices are not realistic?"

Ex: "Well, those are what she picked" "I figured why not try, I mean after all someone has to get accepted, it could be her. It doesn't hurt to try."

Us: "yes, it does. Why waste time & money applying to places that she doesn't have much of a chance. We don't want her to get a mailbox of rejection letters. Plus some of them even if she did get in, there is no way to pay for them. NYU is $40,082 a year not including room & board!!"

More to follow...

 

[bballmom56]

Wait-didnt you say her writing was her lowest score in the testing?

Journalism will never ever pay-those are low paying jobs-IF you can get your foot in the door

480 Writing

Ah, good catch and good point to consider.

Oh my... sounds like Ex has indulged this girl and she has a bad case of I WANT WHAT I WANT WHEN I WANT IT-itis. I'm angry for her, I'm angry at her, I'm angry at the ennabling mother, I'm sad that the two of them working together are so blind and I don't even know any of you.

Has your step *ever* done *any* work on student publications? Has she worked on her school newspaper or the yearbook, has she taken any journalism classes in high school, has she ever known anybody who works in journalism, has she ever shadowed someone for a day or a week to see what it's like?

A comeuppance is aiming for this girl and it ain't gonna be pretty when the excrement hits the fan. I would investigate exactly what it will take for her to get into Pitt or to get into any of its satellite campuses. Know how much that will cost, what the deadlines are and don't tell Ex or step.

Oh, and encourage step to get all those apps in as soon as possible. Frankly, the sooner she starts getting rejections the better.

agnes!

Definitely lots of good info here. The whole family does not seem to want to listen. I don't know what you can do from here except what Agnes suggested. And yes, really time is getting short.

And remember, very often kids change their choice of major from the choice with which they entered college. So you may want to discuss other interests she may have.

 

[SondraC]

This went on and on! Oh, and the reason sdd put Penn State on the list?? Because her mom met someone in an airport that went there for journalism!
That's the reason!!

Oh, and the 8 she gave us isn't all of it apparently Stanford & Cal. Santa Barbara too!!

 

[bballmom56]

Sdd: (very sarcastic) and it is MY choice to go where I want to go, no one can decide but me!"

hmmm, ok, but you are not going to get into the schools you chose.

 

[SondraC]

Oh boy.

You have a 2-fold issue here. It is one thing to get into the college, it is a whole other ball of wax to get into the journalism school.

I know Mizzou being one of the popular journalism schools, it is TOUGH. Most of the kids drop out because they cannot make the grades to get into to the J-School. The competition is very high and hard.

That being said my dh had a coworker dd who just graduated in 3 1/2 yrs. She took max hours, top notch scores and already has a job.

I really feel for you. Perhaps you can give her a set amount that you will reimburse the EX for with application fees. I certainly would not hand out my CC#, period.

We tried to point out those facts about a journalism field, but they made it seem like we were saying she isn't good enough.

Wait-didnt you say her writing was her lowest score in the testing?

Journalism will never ever pay-those are low paying jobs-IF you can get your foot in the door

06/2010, SAT Subject Test 620 Literature 560 Mathematics Level 2

05/2010, SAT Test 540 Reading 530 Math 480 Writing

Yes lowest score was in writing. They don't get the irony in that.

Oh my... sounds like Ex has indulged this girl and she has a bad case of I WANT WHAT I WANT WHEN I WANT IT-itis. I'm angry for her, I'm angry at her, I'm angry at the ennabling mother, I'm sad that the two of them working together are so blind and I don't even know any of you.

Has your step *ever* done *any* work on student publications? Has she worked on her school newspaper or the yearbook, has she taken any journalism classes in high school, has she ever known anybody who works in journalism, has she ever shadowed someone for a day or a week to see what it's like?

A comeuppance is aiming for this girl and it ain't gonna be pretty when the excrement hits the fan. I would investigate exactly what it will take for her to get into Pitt or to get into any of its satellite campuses. Know how much that will cost, what the deadlines are and don't tell Ex or step.

Oh, and encourage step to get all those apps in as soon as possible. Frankly, the sooner she starts getting rejections the better.

agnes!

Yes we agree! She has worked on the school newspaper for 2 years.
We think we are going to submit for a couple that we think are more of a fit.

You know what, at this point since her mother is completely enabling her, let them dig their own grave.

Tell them you will not help pay application fees for schools she doesn't have a prayer of getting into, and send them on their way.

This time next year, she'll be having an excellent time at community college and saving you lots of money, because she is not going to get into the majority of the schools she chose.

They will say the SAT scores are only one thing that the schools look at but you know what, it's a big one. Why is that? because it's (theoretically) STANDARDIZED. They have no idea how grades are issued in the classes at your daughter's school, but they do know that everyone whose application is on their desk took the same set of SATs. It is just plain easier for the admissions officer to start comparing scores than to start comparing grades.

So that SAT is going to count, and it's not good enough to hack it where she wants to go. So let her learn that the hard way. She can do a year at community college and try to transfer if she's really that serious about it, but I would stop losing your hair over it since between the mother and the GC, she is being fully enabled and isn't going to listen to you anyway.

My GPA was average compared to the top acheivers at my large high school (I think I had a 3.5 roughly) but I got a 33 on my ACT and got piles of merit aid at smaller schools who NEEDED students like me. I was foolish and turned them down, but I even got a full ride offer. They're really just going about this all wrong.

She won't take the ACT. We agree we are not paying for any app fees that she doesn't have a chance at.

 

[bballmom56]

Stanford

 

[punkin]

This went on and on! Oh, and the reason sdd put Penn State on the list?? Because her mom met someone in an airport that went there for journalism!
That's the reason!!

Oh, and the 8 she gave us isn't all of it apparently Stanford & Cal. Santa Barbara too!!

Well at least she actually has a shot at Santa Barbara. The rest seem like you are just throwing away money on applications. There is really nothing to be done about a hysterical teen. If it was my SD, I would give her $250 for apps and tell her to have a ball applying wherever she wants. I'd consider it money well spent to avoid arguments. Then when she actually gets serious (after she gets rejected from all her schools), you can sit down and reason with her.

 

[SondraC]

Well at least she actually has a shot at Santa Barbara. The rest seem like you are just throwing away money on applications. There is really nothing to be done about a hysterical teen. If it was my SD, I would give her $250 for apps and tell her to have a ball applying wherever she wants. I'd consider it money well spent to avoid arguments. Then when she actually gets serious (after she gets rejected from all her schools), you can sit down and reason with her.

That's weird my dh just emailed me and said "Are we getting close to just sending them a check for $250 and washing our hands of the app process?"

 

[SondraC]

I know right? Her mom is just happy encouraging this too!

 

[punkin]

Ex: "Well, those are what she picked" "I figured why not try, I mean after all someone has to get accepted, it could be her. It doesn't hurt to try."

Someone will get in, but she will have much higher grades, fabulous extracurriculars and amazing SATs and be an unrepresented minority who overcame huge obstacles in her life. Someone else with much better stats than your SD will also get rejected. It is true that applying to college is somewhat of a lottery, but not completely. You can stack the deck in your favor (forgive the mixed metaphor), but your SD is playing a ridiculous long-shot. Her chances of actually getting in to Stanford or Berkley (heck even UCLA) are so minuscule that this borders on insanity.

 

[punkin]

That's weird my dh just emailed me and said "Are we getting close to just sending them a check for $250 and washing our hands of the app process?"

I honestly think this is your best bet at this point. I am sorry.

 

[bballmom56]

This could be such a fun and enjoyable time for all of you, but it seems like it is only going to be a battle no matter what you do unless she (and they) get their own way. It's a shame because we had a good time researching and visiting colleges for our kids that were realistic for them. So no heartache with acceptances came in. I'm sorry this is the way it is working out for you guys. It sounds like you have done everything in your power to encourage, guide, educate, suggest, support and it is hitting a brick wall.

Sometimes they just have to learn by going through it. You have done a great job!

 

[punkin]

This could be such a fun and enjoyable time for all of you, but it seems like it is only going to be a battle no matter what you do unless she (and they) get their own way. It's a shame because we had a good time researching and visiting colleges for our kids that were realistic for them. So no heartache with acceptances came in. I'm sorry this is the way it is working out for you guys. It sounds like you have done everything in your power to encourage, guide, educate, suggest, support and it is hitting a brick wall.

Sometimes they just have to learn by going through it. You have done a great job!

For DD, there was some heartache, but it was mitigated by all the great schools she did get into because we researched and applied appropriately. After she got admitted to her safety by November, a huge load was lifted off her shoulders and she could concentrate on enjoying senior year. By the time her only rejection came in, she was not particularly upset (of course we were leaving for Disney the next day, so that may have helped )

What is probably going to happen on May 1 to OP's SD is rejection from every school to which she will apply and she will be scrambling to find a school with openings late in the application season. That generally means a lower caliber of school and little to no financial aid or merit aid.

OP, as a pp said, now is a good time to start planning for your son for next year and you have done all you can for your SD at this point. Wait until she is more reasonable (after the inevitable rejections) and then offer your help again. No one ever died from taking a gap year between high school and college.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

That's weird my dh just emailed me and said "Are we getting close to just sending them a check for $250 and washing our hands of the app process?"

I think this is a reasonable compromise.

 

[LilyWDW]

Us: "We also wanted to clarify why you picked the schools that you did?"

SDD: "Those are the ones that I want."

Us: "Why??"

SDD: I like them.

I am starting to think that the school choices come down to 2 things...

1) Those are the schools Ex wishes she had the chance to go to so she is pushing SDD.

2) Those are the schools that SDDs friends are applying to.

It is obvious this poor girl has done NO research. It is also obvious that her mother has been of no help and has actually been a negative influence. At this point I would tell them "Here is the help we are willing to give... BUT you must be willing to provide us with what we have requested. We refuse to throw money at something that you have obviously not looked into. Until we know that picking a school is something that you have seriously thought about, you will be receiving no money from us."

 

[agnes!]

I'd send them $250-$300 for apps, do my research on any viable/late-acceptance Pitt (and Pitt satellite) options and be done with it for a while. It is obvious that there are underlying issues between all the parties involved, between the stepd & her mother, between the stepd & her father, from the Ex towards his 'new' family(you & your son) etc., etc. It doesn't matter what you & your husband say or do, OP, the girl & her mother will not listen.

So give up...
send them the money...
without telling them do your research about local (to them and to you) late-acceptance community colleges/satellite campuses and if they ask say you did it for your HS junior..
And when step is crying that she got rejected by all her schools, you'll have the information that might help.

All the angst and tension and hysterical teenage screaming over the phone will be a thing of the past...the united team of mother & daughter will not listen. Any battlefield commander knows when to retreat and regroup, that's what you have to do now.

agnes!

 

[tlbwriter]

I am starting to think that the school choices come down to 2 things...

1) Those are the schools Ex wishes she had the chance to go to so she is pushing SDD.

2) Those are the schools that SDDs friends are applying to.

Or 3) Those are the schools in interesting locations. San Francisco? Cool!

So, am I reading this correctly - when you asked how she was planning to pay for college, neither she nor her mother actually had an answer? That's a baaaad sign.

 

[SC Minnie]

Or 3) Those are the schools in interesting locations. San Francisco? Cool!

So, am I reading this correctly - when you asked how she was planning to pay for college, neither she nor her mother actually had an answer? That's a baaaad sign.

I agree. The ex and DD need to be told now what monies will be provided for college. Period. So if me some random miracle the DD got into one of these school that are are super expensive there won't be any surprises when it comes time to pay the tuition.

 

[MrsPete]

Good luck. I found the year DD spent deciding on colleges to be a lot of fun and she is happy as a clam at her current college despite the fact that it was not her first choice.

Yeah, it's important to realize that colleges aren't divided into THE ONE PERFECT SCHOOL FOR ME and a whole bunch of junk. Your student could be successful and happy at any number of schools.

MrsPete-i am in the screw self esteem camp-not literally-but they take it too far and actually hurt the students for somethings.

My post did take the idea to an extreme -- I agree with you that a more moderate position is better. But overall, not ranking and "softening" the idea that you might be average instead of outstanding . . . is doing the kids an injustice.

She is re-taking her SATs this Saturday. She said she doesn't want to take the ACT, and she didn't want to even re-do the SAT. Lucky us.

Also, my dh called her school this morning and spoke to her guidance counselor (here after g.c.). She (the g.c.) was useless!!! My dh expressed concern over the schools she picked based on dd SAT scores, and the g.c. said she didn't see anything wrong with the school list and that SATs were only part of what colleges look at, and that part of it is just pure luck!
She also said that it doesn't hurt to just try and see. My dh said what about wasting time & money?? She just said "well you never know."
She then said that last year's valedictorian couldn't even get into UCLA. My dh said "see that's what I mean, if she didn't get it why waste time??"

Guidance counselors are put between a rock and a hard place in situations like this. If they recommend that you stick to realistic options where your student is a strong candidate, they're squealching dreams and holding back students -- why not let them try for those tougher schools? And if they tell them to try, and then the students fail . . . why didn't they give better advice and steer the students towards the appropriate schools?

Why knows why the valeditorian didn't get into UCLA? Perhaps he was one of those students who had all the grades, but had no extra-curriculars whatsoever. Or maybe he was late with his applications. Or maybe he did something purposefully to "throw" his application. I had a friend who did that in high school: Her parents had both gone to Snooty U, and they desperately wanted her to go there -- she wanted another school. She was a great student and almost certainly would've been admitted. So she wrote out one application/set of essays, which her parents saw and approved . . . and then she wrote out another set - a set with mistakes and just enough red flags that her intention wasn't obvious. She wasn't admitted, and she ended up at the school where she'd wanted to go.

Guidance counselors. They can't win.

SDD: I like them.

Us: "Ex, what are your thoughts on all of this, we have done a lot of research on the schools she picked plus others that she has not thought of."

Ex: "Well, she made her list and now she just needs to apply to them to see."

Well, in my experience, the Ex and DD -- not the OP -- are in the majority of college-decision makers. Most people seem to pick a couple places that sound good, and apply. That also explains why people end up at colleges that're poorly suited to their needs and abilities.

Wait-didnt you say her writing was her lowest score in the testing?

A future journalist with a low writing score . . . this is a red flag.

Sdd: (very sarcastic) "Well, it is now the present, not 6 months ago and I have to get this done before I run out of time! I don't understand why you guys are doing this. You wanted me to get going, and it is MY choice to go where I want to go, no one can decide but me!"

In addition to your checkbook having some say-so in where she goes, the school admissions office also has a great deal of decision-making power. She doesn't grasp these things.

And how could she? She's done pretty well in school, and she's got the idea that college is just 13th grade. She doesn't "get" that it's a whole lot more and that she won't necessarily be the same "always gets As and Bs student" in college -- EVERYONE in those colleges was an excellent high school student.

Someone will get in, but she will have much higher grades, fabulous extracurriculars and amazing SATs and be an unrepresented minority who overcame huge obstacles in her life. Someone else with much better stats than your SD will also get rejected. It is true that applying to college is somewhat of a lottery, but not completely. You can stack the deck in your favor (forgive the mixed metaphor), but your SD is playing a ridiculous long-shot. Her chances of actually getting in to Stanford or Berkley (heck even UCLA) are so minuscule that this borders on insanity.

Having taught seniors for 19 years, I agree with every word. Admissions often do appear unfair because they pay attention to details that you and I would ignore. For example, our flagship university has quotas from the various parts of the state -- so it's actually easier for a kid from a rural mountain town to be admitted (even with lower SATs and GPAs) than it is for a kid from one of our largest cities. And that's just one example. Admissions to competative schools ARE rather like the lottery -- someone's going to win, and someone's going to lose.

And when it comes to these uber-competative schools, I stick to my original assertion: It's not wise to accept admission to one of those schools where you barely-barely-barely made it in. Doing so means that you'll always be at the bottom of your class. You'll always be just scraping by. It's better to go where you'll be in the middle of the pack.

I'd send them $250-$300 for apps, do my research on any viable/late-acceptance Pitt (and Pitt satellite) options and be done with it for a while. It is obvious that there are underlying issues between all the parties involved, between the stepd & her mother, between the stepd & her father, from the Ex towards his 'new' family(you & your son) etc., etc. It doesn't matter what you & your husband say or do, OP, the girl & her mother will not listen.

So give up...
send them the money...
without telling them do your research about local (to them and to you) late-acceptance community colleges/satellite campuses and if they ask say you did it for your HS junior..
And when step is crying that she got rejected by all her schools, you'll have the information that might help.

All the angst and tension and hysterical teenage screaming over the phone will be a thing of the past...the united team of mother & daughter will not listen. Any battlefield commander knows when to retreat and regroup, that's what you have to do now.

agnes!

While this is far from a perfect solution, it may be what is realistic for this situation. College is a very important decision, but it cannot be more important than your relationship with your daughter.

I'd send the check along with a note that does two things: 1) reassures her that you love her, are sure she's going to make good choices, and you're supportive of her . . . and 2) hits the highlights of what makes a school realistic.

 

[tlbwriter]

Guidance counselors are put between a rock and a hard place in situations like this. If they recommend that you stick to realistic options where your student is a strong candidate, they're squealching dreams and holding back students -- why not let them try for those tougher schools? And if they tell them to try, and then the students fail . . . why didn't they give better advice and steer the students towards the appropriate schools?

In a situation like this, I would expect the guidance counselor to say "That's great that you're interested in such tough schools. I'm glad you're willing to do what it takes to succeed in a school like that. However, you need to realize that this particular school gets 156 applications for every opening, so there will be a lot of applicants who don't get it. I encourage you to select a couple of safety schools as well, because you never know what will happen. State U and University of X are good schools that offer the major you're interested in - have you looked at them?"