Staring at other people's children (ie tantrums, crying etc.)

[Earstou]

How do you tell the difference for your child between autistic behaviour and just normal bad behaviour? Can you tell the difference?

Good question!!! I don't always know. Sometimes I figure it out when I start dealing with it. If my son reacts like a cornered animal with his eyes glazed over, yelling "No" over and over again, then I know it's a meltdown. I always talk to him about his behavior afterwards, usually in the evening at home. If he doesn't even remember the incident, then I know it was a meltdown. Taking flight is a good indication (like hiding in the school bathroom after forgeting his lunchcard). But we always try to discipline, it just may not be the same way parents of neuro-typical kids discipline! I always try to remove him from a group setting (scouts, movies, church, plays, ect.) if he is disturbing the group, which actually helps end the meltdown (plus makes everyone around us happy!!). But there are also times I can't get him to move, and we have to sit it out.
About the comments:
After the reading I've done (mostly on aspergers) about these children saying inappropriate things, I don't usually get upset anymore when people make mean comments to me because it makes me wonder if that person could be on the austism spectrum themselves!

 

[disneymama73]

On our last trip in early June, my 4-yr-old had a really hard time. She has OCD and Trichotillomania ("hair pulling madness"). Every time I took her into a bathroom, she had to use about half a gallon of soap. Then she would scream and cry and sometimes hit the floor because I had not given her enough soap - even though it was running down her arms onto the floor. Then she would have a fit when rinsing the soap off. She would cry that she hadn't gotten all the soap off even though she had. And she would be positively hysterical crying and screaming. OMGosh, the looks we got. It was awful. I can't emphasize enough that this was EVERY trip to the bathroom. I have 3 girls. We're in the bathroom A LOT. Sometimes I would have DH take her into the men's bathroom with him (don't worry - he made sure no one was in there first) just to give myself a break from her.

One day, we had just arrived at MGM, and I can't remember what was wrong - I think she wanted to wash her hands again or I made her leave the bathroom before she felt all the soap was off, but she threw a major fit right there on the sidewalk. It actually was a little humorous to me because she started crawling down the sidewalk - it just seemed silly. It was slightly funny until I noticed other people laughing at her. Making comments. Looking shocked. I heard the comments that "weren't meant to be heard." "WOW, now THAT's a tantrum!" "OMG, did you see that kid?" I wish people would just keep their comments to themselves. People probably thought she needed to go back to the room for a nap, but WE JUST GOT THERE! We always let the kids sleep until they wake up on their own. So we never get into a park before 11am. None of us mind as we are DVC members and AP holders and we go to WDW 1-3 times per year. We're there to have fun, not be tired and cranky.

I'm sure it's hard to not react when you see something shocking like this, but I just wish people could keep in mind that they don't know the whole story.

We also got lots of weird looks because of her hair. It is very short on one side and there are small bald spots from pulling it out. People looked at her like "OMG, does she have cancer?" or "What's wrong with her?" No one said anything, but it was the looks. It made me so sad for my baby.

Thank you so much for this thread. I feel so much better now that I've written about this. I've never really talked about it with anyone.

 

[madgomez]

I have read thru this thread with interest - I have a friend with a son who is mildly autistic, and another with a daughter who has severe disabilities from brain damage.

While I agree that parents of special children should not be judged, but those making the inappropriate comments should not be judged too, too harshly either. Comments like the "perfect parents club" are harsh and judgemental too. I don't mean to single out the poster who used that phrase - it's just the one that came to mind, but there are quite a few others in this thread as well. Put simply, no one really knows why another acts the way he or she does.

We each learn from our experiences. I personally could not understand how someone could lose a child - until I had my SECOND child. I learned from experience how different children can be. (And fast )

My point is, those making the comments or rolling their eyes might have their own learning disabilities, past experiences, or other reasons for their behavior. Including, sometimes, lack of manners or ignorance. But you don't know that either. Just because someone appears to be a "normal" adult doesn't mean he or she is. My first husband was an alcoholic, and a mean drunk. But half of our friends were amazed when I told them the reason for our divorce, because they had never seen him drunk! Much like your son, you couldn't tell by looking that he had a problem.

To the OP, if you keep that in mind, perhaps it will be a little easier to let the looks and comments roll off your back, rather than making you cry. React to them the way you wish they would react to you and your child, instead of letting them take a bit of your power away from you. If you do not accept the idea that they are qualified to judge you, then the judgement becomes meaningless.

That being said, I do thank the heavens that I have two healthy normal boys - I don't believe I could have handled the trials and tribulations of having a "special" child and am in awe and admiration of those who do. I do believe you are special parents with more patience, understanding and stamina than I have - even if I don't immediately recognize you when I see you.

 

[Laurajean1014]

Since joining these boards and reading stories like yours, I try to keep this in the back of my head. When my DH tries to say something (not to the person, but to me), I remind him that everything isn't always as it seems.

I will keep you in mind when at WDW soon.

D4D

I find men (as a gender) are more opinionated and ill willed to handle these types of things. Maybe their egos are too fragile?

We were flying to WDW from CT. There was a big storm over DC, so we had to re-route and go over Cleveland to Orlando. The flight was about 6 hours for a normally 2.5 flight. My four year old was terrific throughout the entire event. But, I noticed that the adult passengers were pissy and complaining....... people should look at themselves for faults before looking at others......

 

[Katerbug]

To Carrieberry---

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

As the mother of a wonderful 9yr old boy with autism, I thank you for your post. I know very well what you are talking about. We are making our first trip to WDW in December and hoping everything will go well.
Thank you again for helping spread the word and bringing more awareness to the problems we all face everyday raising all of our children.

 

[Laurajean1014]

Love it!

Sorry you had such insensitive reactions, Carrieberry. I'm always astounded that people can be so self-righteous, judgemental & completely ignorant. I especially love it when people who don't have kids yet feel compelled to tell you how to parent.... Much less when people who don't know what challenges your child faces tell you what to do (My DS grew up with terminal illness which spawned it's own set of difficulties)

Very well stated.

 

[Amy&Dan]

Carrieberry: I am so glad you posted this, if this helps one person not to pass judgement on somebody else, whether it be a child or adult, then just think what you accomplished!

I have a son who has a condition called delayed motor planning. Meaning his brain couldn't tell his body how to do something. He couldn't climb a jungle gym until he was probably 7 because he couldn't figure out how to do it just by looking. He had to repetitively do any motor activity many times, each time going a little higher or longer. His sister who was two years younger would help him get to the top or learn how to do most anything other kids did with no problem. Through a lot of occupational therapy and time his condition just sort of went away for the most part. He's almost 11 and just this past week learned how to climb a rope in P.E. so he still has his issues I guess. Anyway, I remember being at a McDonald's once and he had gotten to the top of this play structure but couldn't get down. He was shrieking and terrified. I couldn't get up there to get him because the McDonald's employee said there was like a 100 pound weight limit and I was certainly not that light. I remember two men just laughing there you know whats off like this was just the funniest thing they had ever seen. Making comments like, "well at least he's at a fast food joint, they can always send him up a burger so he won't starve up there". I was crying because he was so terrified and begging me to come get him and I couldn't help him. Finally some very nice mom got her son (maybe 12 or 13) to go up and bring him down. I am grateful to that woman to this day. I couldn't believe that in a such a crowded place she was the only one to have enough common sense to come up with such a simple way to solve our problem! Many years later Matthew repaid the favor at that same McDonald's with another little boy in a similar situation. The funny thing was that when this happened to us most of the kids were so worried about my son whom they didn't know and weren't at all laughing or rude, it was the parents who either shook their heads with the "what a brat" attitude or downright laughed. People always say kids are mean but in my experience its adults who take the cake in that area. And one other thing, I had a "friend" who was extremely judgemental of all of my son's issues. Many times when he was frustrated with something he would throw a tantrum and boy did she always have a comment to make. I heard her tell her husband once that if they had a kid that did that, he/she would only do it once. Then she had a daughter who is prone to tantrums on a mammoth scale. I always told her "I feel your pain" and assured her that Caitlin was a normal, sweet child and to just hang in there. I didn't judge her but I always wondered if she remembered my "pain" and how unsupportive she had been. She did concede at long last how without a clue she had been with my family. I told her what I believe is true for most any of life's challenges, there are just some things you have to live to believe!

 

[minkydog]

I had a "friend" who was extremely judgemental of all of my son's issues. Many times when he was frustrated with something he would throw a tantrum and boy did she always have a comment to make. I heard her tell her husband once that if they had a kid that did that, he/she would only do it once. Then she had a daughter who is prone to tantrums on a mammoth scale. I always told her "I feel your pain" and assured her that Caitlin was a normal, sweet child and to just hang in there. I didn't judge her but I always wondered if she remembered my "pain" and how unsupportive she had been. She did concede at long last how without a clue she had been with my family. I told her what I believe is true for most any of life's challenges, there are just some things you have to live to believe!

Oh, believe me, she remembers your pain. Karma has a way of biting you in the butt. My sister was always so judgemental about my oldest child, the one with severe ADD and bipolar disorder (you wanna talk meltdowns? ) She was a teacher and she knew it all.

Well, good ol' karma...Sis had a baby finally, at age 40. Most obnoxious kid you can imagine. Me? I'm like the tarbaby, I say nothin'. Turns out her daughter has severe ADHD too. My sister called me up crying, begging for forgiveness for her impatience and general nerviness in dealing with my son, now 19yo. I accepted her apology graciously and reassured her that we loved her and her daughter.

What goes around comes around, baby

 

[java]

First off I am sorry that people gave you either stares or even worse their 2 cents while you are dealing with your child. As a mother of 4 children whenever I see another child having a meltdown of any kind- be it autisitc related or just a full blown temper tantrum...my only comment is "can I help you in any way" to a parent dealing with this. It is so difficult to handle one situation and keep your eyes on your other children. I have been asked to just keep an eye on a sibling or even please do you have a wipe? and I am there to help if I can. I hope that you don't allow others ignorance to hamper your trip. You are doing the best you can for your son. I also wanted to add another situation that many don't realize. My friend has a son with a brain tumor. He is on numerous medications. Side effects of these drugs are unbelievable but the one that people notice is the bloating. She has heard all kinds of hurtful things about her "fat" child. Everyone offering advice on diet. She goes home and cries and thinks if it were only that easy. So you never know what people are dealing with when it comes to their children. Do you know there is a free online autism conference later this month? I am going to go search for the link and I will post it here. It is an autism/asperger's syndrom symposium open to the public.
here is the link
http://www.awares.org/conferences/

 

[Earstou]

Anyway, I remember being at a McDonald's once and he had gotten to the top of this play structure but couldn't get down. He was shrieking and terrified.

Amy&Dan: Wow, sounds just like my son! He had balance problems (still don't know why?) and I was in a pickle because I do too (due to Chiari- a brain malformation). I eventually crawled part way up, and some wonderful kids coaxed him down to where I was.
The ball pit was another hard area. He would follow other kids in there, and then just start screaming. I would have to crawl into the ballpit and pull him out.
And you're right, it was usually the parents with the attitudes, not the kids!!

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

I get so disgusted by people who say or stare at someone having difuclty with their kid. I find that these are ussually the spoiled people more often then the kid whom is having a meltdown. My kids are pretty good with their behavior and when they did have crying fits socially(very young), I always tried to take them to a quiet area as to not disturb people. Where would that be in Disney???
I mean if you didn't want to deal with kids then you really cam e to the wrong public place.

 

[MHTeacher]

No one should sit in judgement of any child's behavior. All parents have coped with their child's behavior of crying etc., (or misbehavior) at some point. If they say they haven't, then their not exactly being truthful.

 

[taximomfor4]

I have read thru this thread with interest - I have a friend with a son who is mildly autistic, and another with a daughter who has severe disabilities from brain damage.

While I agree that parents of special children should not be judged, but those making the inappropriate comments should not be judged too, too harshly either. Comments like the "perfect parents club" are harsh and judgemental too. I don't mean to single out the poster who used that phrase - it's just the one that came to mind, but there are quite a few others in this thread as well. Put simply, no one really knows why another acts the way he or she does.

.

I completely meant the PPC to be tongue-in-cheek. Its why I put a silly smiley next to it. Sorry if I offended anyone at all -- I was attempting to lighten the mood around a very important topic. And to tell the truth, most of us know at least ONE parent like that... My brother-in-law comes to mind. You can't even imagine what that man puts me through, with his constant opinions about MY parenting. Not NEARLY all the people who might misunderstand another family's situation, or voice opinions about other families' discipline methods were what I was referring to. Many of those are just coming from different experiences. Really, a PPC doesn't exist...I just think different parents prioritize differently-- and we all have to pick our battles, and our methods of discipline based on our specific kids, and our family dynamics and values.

 

[anoldgrouch]

I truly feel for parents who have children with disabilities (physical and mental), social problems, etc.
BUT, parents also need to understand that they are responsible for these children when they take them out to as public a place as WDW or any other public place. I am sick and tired of spending thousands of $$$ for trips to places like WDW, only to have it ruined by parents who are too insensitive to take their children out when they are out of control. This happens in churches, movies, etc.
I once attended a wedding where a mother brought her teething infant. The child screamed through the entire service. No matter how many dirty looks she got, this "mother" just sat there smiling like there was nothing wrong. The bride was so destraught that it took her new husband and her family half the reception to get her calmed down to the point where she would participate in her own wedding!
If you do have a child with behavioral issues, please consider everyone else as well. You have a right to a nice vacation for your money, but so does everyone else around you.

 

[eeyore45]

I hope this thread can remain on topic. I believe it is important to educate others, and not be judgemental.

 

[DLKT]

In defense of parents that give "dirty looks" to parents that have kids in the middle of a *seemingly* unbehaved screaming fit, I just have to say that it's just human nature to a degree.
It's ignorance not mean spirited I think.
You're either in the camp who knows or the camp who doesn't have a clue.
I'm one of those people who used to think you were a bad parent who had a screaming kid.
Why?
Because my kids never screamed or had temper tantrums that I didn't stop pretty quick.
Why didn't my kids have fits?
Because "I did everything right"!

Then I read a thread like this and realize that I'm actually a freaking idiot.
That's the way people work usually.
Sad but true.

I used to laugh, not outright enough to hurt anyone but just in my head, at kids who wore those safety helmets.
I thought it was funny.
No idea why.
Just some stupid cruel thing that carried over from childhood to adulthood.

Then one day my son started having drop seizures.
Then I learned again that I was an idiot.
He's fine now with medication but today if I see a child with one of those helmets I want to help make sure they're ok and having fun rather than snickering.

Education and experience are the only way people are going to "grow up" with stuff like this.
Of course, there are always going to be idiots no matter what....

 

[taximomfor4]

DLKT,
what a great post!
Beth

 

[MommytoMJM]

I'm sick right now, but both my daughter and I havve invisible ilnesses and will contribute as soon as we are well.

 

[marj70]

I truly feel for parents who have children with disabilities (physical and mental), social problems, etc.
BUT, parents also need to understand that they are responsible for these children when they take them out to as public a place as WDW or any other public place. I am sick and tired of spending thousands of $$$ for trips to places like WDW, only to have it ruined by parents who are too insensitive to take their children out when they are out of control. This happens in churches, movies, etc.
I once attended a wedding where a mother brought her teething infant. The child screamed through the entire service. No matter how many dirty looks she got, this "mother" just sat there smiling like there was nothing wrong. The bride was so destraught that it took her new husband and her family half the reception to get her calmed down to the point where she would participate in her own wedding!
If you do have a child with behavioral issues, please consider everyone else as well. You have a right to a nice vacation for your money, but so does everyone else around you.

I would so love to have you take my son somewhere for a few hours. Heck, even spend a few hours with him in his own home.

In all seriousness, you are right in the fact that it IS polite to remove a screaming child from a theater, restaurant, etc and do always do that when at all possible. Sometimes, though, those meltdowns on Main Street happen and there's not much you can do.

I thank everyone for this discussion, I think it's a great topic and not just as far as kids with disabilities. I think it's really about tolerance for things you may not fully understand.

Edited to add: forgot to mention that we DID get stuck in the Carousel of Progress with Alex last trip. I did feel for the poor people stuck in there with us, and we did our best to keep him quiet, but will NEVER make that mistake again! This time we're going to check first, and if can't leave if we need to we will skip the attraction.

 

[lecach]

I was recently at a college football game and I saw a girl, about 12 y.o. having a meltdown. She was clearly not just having a brattiness session. Im sure she was somewhere on the autism spectrum. Her meltdown started when she kept running up to the snack counter breaking in line. Her Dad pulled her away and for about 15 minutes (it was a LONG snack line) she would fall down on the ground, kick her Dad, scream, etc. There were a lot of people staring. I couldnt believe how calm the Dad was. Im sure it had to be very difficult. I wanted to go up to him and tell him how proud I was of him for remaining so calm. But I didnt know how it would be received. I have to admit I watched the whole thing. I was a good distance away for most of it and from the direction he was facing I am sure he didnt see me. But I feel really terrible about it. For those of us that dont have kids with autism its sometimes hard NOT to look. But I will do my best not to watch any future meltdowns that I come across.