Staring at other people's children (ie tantrums, crying etc.)

[bcarson]

We just returned from a trip with my 4 year old nephew who is autisitic. I have to say other then my 7 year old he was better behaved then my dd4 and my other nephew 2. He did not need a GAC all week. But we used the leashes for him and his 2 year old brother. They work great for him. It gives him freedom and he really can not get away and get hurt. He likes to run away and he is faster then lightening. I have to say we had some nice people comment about them and there was also a few rude comments. My mom overheard one women say that we were leading them around like dogs. I was not with them but my sister said she actually snapped back at a women that said something. I know they are not for everybody but please don't judge those that use them. You don't always know the circumstances. I would not use one for my child but she doesn't need it. But it keeps my nephew safe and allows him to be a kid like everybody else.

 

[admepo]

I wanted to thank the OP for bringing this topic out to everyone reading. My 4 year old son is autistic and we have had MANY rude comments, looks and more from parents and other adults. On our last trip there in July, I had a man with his wife and their twins stop their stroller and point at Jake during one of his meltdowns and say "See the brat attack, kids? You would get spanked" I thought my husband was going to turn around and hit the guy because he happened to be the third person who said something rude within a 30 minute span to us. Luckily he just dealt with Jake while I kept watch of our other 2 kids. We luckily have encountered many a helpful and understanding CM when these episodes have taken place which makes life easier around the World. We go again in 2 weeks for MNSSHP and are looking forward to it for our boys but we know that these behaviors from other guests are a regular thing for every visit. Maybe as more people become aware of disabilities like Autism they won't be so judgemental.

 

[Nancyg56]

I wanted to thank the OP for bringing this topic out to everyone reading. My 4 year old son is autistic and we have had MANY rude comments, looks and more from parents and other adults. On our last trip there in July, I had a man with his wife and their twins stop their stroller and point at Jake during one of his meltdowns and say "See the brat attack, kids? You would get spanked" I thought my husband was going to turn around and hit the guy because he happened to be the third person who said something rude within a 30 minute span to us. Luckily he just dealt with Jake while I kept watch of our other 2 kids. We luckily have encountered many a helpful and understanding CM when these episodes have taken place which makes life easier around the World. We go again in 2 weeks for MNSSHP and are looking forward to it for our boys but we know that these behaviors from other guests are a regular thing for every visit. Maybe as more people become aware of disabilities like Autism they won't be so judgemental.

I am so sorry that your family has experienced this type of behavior. How sad that our society has gotten to the point when adults feel that it is acceptable to make hurtful comments or gestures to others. Kudos to your DH for demonstrating to his family how to be generous when another behavior is deemed inappropriate!

I hope that your upcoming vacation is magical, and that this thread has reached many people. I know that I am going to be more aware of my own behavior thanks to this thread.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

Please bear with me on this. I'm not trying to insult anyone's parenting or to imply your kids are faking it or anything bad. I just have a question.

How do you tell the difference for your child between autistic behaviour and just normal bad behaviour? Can you tell the difference?

I don't envy your job of trying to raise a child and correct thier behavior when you can't really tell whether the behaviour is something they can control or not.

BTW LOVE this thread and have my own to post on here but I have to ans Bill first. Thanks for starting it.

My son had a stroke in utero and now is dev delayed and has epilepsy. While not autistic he has many overlapping issues with autistic kids.

Bill sometimes you can't tell the difference. DS has smaller tantrums making him seem more typical so we get alot of stares (no comments that I have heard yet). One of the ways you can tell is by looking at the parents reaction. The reaction is not "typical" because the parent understands that the child is working through an issue.

For example you may see my son having a tantrum at the airport. You will see me holding him sitting with him till he calms down talking to him in a soothing voice. While other parents go straight to disipline I know with my son he has to calm down first before anything I say to him will be understood. It may look like I am not disiplining him but by the time you see it the episode is "over" to the average observer and that is where the comments would start "if that were my kid...etc."

So if you see a parent who has unusual amount of patience considering how badly the child is flipping out that could be a sign that there is more going on than you know. So sometimes the child may look typical but really isn't.

Another thing to cue into is what the parent may be saying. Like "it is ok, use your words" is something I say alot. My son needs prompting and encouragement to speak. He has extreme difficulty talking and just that prompting helps him relax and that mommy is on the same page as he is. So if it seems the parent is handling it "better" than those around (meaning they are not stressing out or getting into a battle with the child) or if they seem to be "trained" in dealing with the behavior even though it may seem like something the average parent would not do. It is easy to guess there may be an issue involved.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

I have read thru this thread with interest - I have a friend with a son who is mildly autistic, and another with a daughter who has severe disabilities from brain damage.

While I agree that parents of special children should not be judged, but those making the inappropriate comments should not be judged too, too harshly either. Comments like the "perfect parents club" are harsh and judgemental too. I don't mean to single out the poster who used that phrase - it's just the one that came to mind, but there are quite a few others in this thread as well. Put simply, no one really knows why another acts the way he or she does.

We each learn from our experiences. I personally could not understand how someone could lose a child - until I had my SECOND child. I learned from experience how different children can be. (And fast )

My point is, those making the comments or rolling their eyes might have their own learning disabilities, past experiences, or other reasons for their behavior. Including, sometimes, lack of manners or ignorance. But you don't know that either. Just because someone appears to be a "normal" adult doesn't mean he or she is. My first husband was an alcoholic, and a mean drunk. But half of our friends were amazed when I told them the reason for our divorce, because they had never seen him drunk! Much like your son, you couldn't tell by looking that he had a problem.

To the OP, if you keep that in mind, perhaps it will be a little easier to let the looks and comments roll off your back, rather than making you cry. React to them the way you wish they would react to you and your child, instead of letting them take a bit of your power away from you. If you do not accept the idea that they are qualified to judge you, then the judgement becomes meaningless.

That being said, I do thank the heavens that I have two healthy normal boys - I don't believe I could have handled the trials and tribulations of having a "special" child and am in awe and admiration of those who do. I do believe you are special parents with more patience, understanding and stamina than I have - even if I don't immediately recognize you when I see you.

I am sorry but I cannot agree with letting adults off the hook that easily. People who are making those inappropriate comments to families having a child tantrum (special needs or not) should be ashamed of themselves.

Thankfully you don't have children with special needs but believe me I am not stronger than you are I have no choice but to be strong for my son. People deal with what they are given. IMO special needs parents are no different than the typical population we just do what we gotta do.

I would change it all if I could for my son's sake. The things he has to go through no child should have to.

AND if he has an outburst that upsets a few people during dinner they just have to deal just like he does with epilepsy and learning disabilities. I cannot and will not apologize for my son's behavior to clods who give a mean stare or a rude comment.

After it is all said and done kids ARE kids so if an adult is going to let a child's behavior interfer with their mood to the point where they need to make a nasty remark then they don't belong going to Disney of all places. But I will be darned if I will give them a benefit of the doubt after they have glared nastily at my family especially my son.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

I truly feel for parents who have children with disabilities (physical and mental), social problems, etc.
BUT, parents also need to understand that they are responsible for these children when they take them out to as public a place as WDW or any other public place. I am sick and tired of spending thousands of $$$ for trips to places like WDW, only to have it ruined by parents who are too insensitive to take their children out when they are out of control. This happens in churches, movies, etc.
I once attended a wedding where a mother brought her teething infant. The child screamed through the entire service. No matter how many dirty looks she got, this "mother" just sat there smiling like there was nothing wrong. The bride was so destraught that it took her new husband and her family half the reception to get her calmed down to the point where she would participate in her own wedding!
If you do have a child with behavioral issues, please consider everyone else as well. You have a right to a nice vacation for your money, but so does everyone else around you.

This is EXACTLY what this thread is about. OMgosh

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

Maybe you would prefer we institutionalize our children and forget about them? Only allow them out on 'special needs' days?

Oh forget it....Im not getting in to this argument. My child has every right to be there, and we spend thou$$ands as well. Some of it on therapy for our kids, and some of it on Disney and other PUBLIC places.

AMEN you know I had this in my reply box then I deleted it since I always seem to be the one who "starts" it on the boards lol. Thanks for saying what needs to be said.

It is a shame that after all these replies that person needed to point out we are responsible for our kids and he spent alot on his vacation. WOW insightful!

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

I was NOT talking about your child or any other child with autism or any other disability. I said at the beginning of my post that I truly feel for parents such as you who are dealing with these issues. I also respect you tremendously for having the courage to take your child to places such as WDW to give them that awesome experience.
The people I was speaking of are the ones you mention: "Also no parent of a child with behavioral issues purposefully takes them out when they are having a problem". Unfortunately, this is not true in our society today. To me, autism is not a "behavioral issue". It is a medical condition. The parents I was speaking about are the ones like I mentioned who will take a child who is obviously too ill to go out and drag them to a function when they should be home in bed. I have seen parents take three-year-olds with high fevers to high school football games, children suffering from asthma to bars full of smoke, and even a child just out of the hospital after a case of pneumonia on a skiing trip! These parents are the ones that I think should be put in a cell.
Then there are the "parents" who just don't care. I've been in five-star restaurants and seen parents let there kids run wild while they chat with their friends. I actually saw two kids knock a waiter with a full tray over once and the parents actually laughed!
My point was simply that, until everyone has been given training on what to look for with autistic children, don't blame people for staring at your child. There are so many cases where "normal" children are simply out of control that people cannot tell the difference between a medical condition and a lack-of-discipline condition.
Sorry if I offended you in any way. Good luck and Godspeed.

Are you missing the entire point of the thread? Sometimes you don't know. Do you know that more than 20% of the population have some form of diagnoseddisability? Do you realize that with some medical issues come behavioral problems? Do you also realize there are millions of people whose children have behavioral issues which manifest late in childhood and those children have not yet been diagnosed when you see them?

How about the plain and simple fact that some people enjoy having children around and that not everyone goes to Disney or on vacation to have a stuffed shirt fancy dinner. That some people realize they are children and want to have a fancy dinner with the sounds of children playing around them?

Ever think that maybe those with typical children who are running around may have had a child pass away and now know what life is really about? Those moments of fun. So please don't expect your comments to be justified at least not with me.

 

[kpk89]

My point was simply that, until everyone has been given training on what to look for with autistic children, don't blame people for staring at your child. There are so many cases where "normal" children are simply out of control that people cannot tell the difference between a medical condition and a lack-of-discipline condition.

Uh, uh, anoldgrouch -- staring is rude, whatever the circumstances. Period.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

Oh, it's not any one thing anyone said in particular, it's just that when I spoke before in this thread, people jumped all over me for my comments that I:

1) look away, wince, and walk in the other direction, quickly, when I hear a child shrieking
2) sometimes comment to my husband about our childless state and his desire that maybe it shouldn't stay that way
3) my penchant for turning people in to security if I see an adult hitting a child or cursing loudly at them

I just wanted to make it known that there are reasons for people to act the way they do, on all sides. And that it very well be out of the exact same root - in my case, BECAUSE of my experience I have much less of a tolerance for adults treating children poorly, even if they're perfectly healthy and just being bratty (how am I to be able to tell that in the 15 seconds I'm around them?).

Exactly. You know it stinks what you have been through and I undertsnad your choice not to have kids.
It is the out of earshot comments that people make thinking they cannot be heard. Parents of small children aquire a sense of hearing the tiny little thing. Amplify that when your child has special needs. Even if you are away from that family another could be right next to you that dealt with that 15 minutes prior. So someone does hear you in a public place. That is all I am saying.
Just like I would never comment on your being childless please don't comment about our kids.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

My story. Ironically I have not yet experienced nasty comments by parents at WDW. I did encounter a nasty parent on Castaway Cay who felt it fine for her child to try to punch and actually kick my son but that wasn't 'ability' related.

I did experince a cashier try and "help" disipline my son. We were at a store and we got to the cashier he wanted fruit snacks. We don't buy them because of our dentist saying they are bad for kids teeth. His behavior has been bad for the past 7 months. he had a bout with seizures and I think he has been frustrated. He is starting to realize he is different. So we originally said no to the fruit snacks but it popped into my head that we should buy them for him because his behavior that night was fantastic. He also got a great note home from school.
Well the cashier trying to help was telling them he couldn't have them and to give them to her. She was saying stuff about calling the cops since he is not allowed to have them and all this ridiculous stuff. I leaned over and said we have decided to get them for him since he was really good today. To get her to stop with the "threats". SO she took him out of his hand to ring them up and he spit at her. He has never done that to a stranger. I was in complete shock. He was so worked up by what she was saying that he thought she was taking them away from him not ringing them up since everything she was saying to him had been negative. If she were going to "help" she should have explained to him the fact that he was getting them for being good but instead she just went to grab them from him after saying a ton of reasons why he couldn't have them.
So of course now the good behavior from the whole day is ruined we could not possibly buy him the fruit snacks after this. So we put them away and take him out of the stroe. I was a horror show. I know she was just trying to help but sometimes people need to let parents do the parenting and to keep their opionions out of it.
The next night we had to return to the store to get something we forgot. She was working again and we brought our son over to apologize to her for the night before. He said he was sorry and she bends down to say "It is ok but please don't ever spit at pople again. Only bad boys spit it isn't really nice." Which is true but again not her place to teach the lesson. She seemed to be the type of person who has the need to reprimand kids. We don't call our son a bad boy because of his issues alot of which he can't help due to the stroke so that right there goes against our parenting and what the experts working with my son say to do.

But that was our most recent mortifying experience.

 

[NJBlackBerry]

A few weeks ago we were sitting outside of Les Chefs De France waiting for dinner. A young man was sitting across from us. He started grunting/screaming and hitting his head against the railing behind the benches. It appeared to me that he was non-verbal because all he did was scream and, mostly, grunt loudly. His family did not move.

My DS10 came over and asked me what was wrong with the boy. I told him thay he *may* have some sort of disorder and perhaps could not speak. My son then asked the key question: "Why aren't his parents helping him".

Since I had no good answer for him - and the yound man kept getting louder and hitting himself more frequently, I turned the conversation elsewhere.

I try NOT to judge parents (unless the screaming baby is seated right behind me on the plane) - we have two children and that's enough work for me without any disabilities, but his question was right on the mark.

 

[homer424]

Our emabrassing moments came when Brendan was running up to people and trying to pull their bags (from the gift shop) out of their hands t see what was inside. He would just take off fast and then try to grab the bags out of peoples hands.

Were you there in August? Because when we were in World of Disney, the sweetest little boy was pulling on my bag as we were walking out. I let him look inside and his mom came to get him as we were standing there. The mom apologized but I said it was perfectly fine. He was just so cute!

I, too, can't tell a regular tantrum from one that a child with special needs is having, but I am not one to stare or make comments because that does nothing for the situation-it just makes the parent more uncomfortable and makes the person saying the comment look like an idjit. My DD, who does have some sensory issues and some impulse control problems, is quite adept at being quite loud and tanrtum-y. So I just try my best to get her through it, move her out of the way of others/a quiet spot. Funny thing is-she has never had a meltdown in WDW-another reason to live there! LOL

 

[Tigger&Belle]

I, too, can't tell a regular tantrum from one that a child with special needs is having, but I am not one to stare or make comments because that does nothing for the situation-it just makes the parent more uncomfortable and makes the person saying the comment look like an idjit.

Exactly, and it doesn't really matter at the time why a child is having a tantrum. I don't think a person should comment on my son having a meltdown. He's not special needs, but a person needs to ask themselves if commenting about another person's behavior will help the situation. If they answer is "no" or "I don't know" or even "maybe", they need to be quiet and not make any comments. Doesn't matter if they think they are in earshot or not.

 

[madgomez]

I am sorry but I cannot agree with letting adults off the hook that easily. People who are making those inappropriate comments to families having a child tantrum (special needs or not) should be ashamed of themselves.

....................... But I will be darned if I will give them a benefit of the doubt after they have glared nastily at my family especially my son.

Well then you should understand some adults not letting you or your special needs child off the hook because they cannot SEE anything wrong. They are taking the same approach you are. You know nothing about the adults who roll eyes, make comments, etc., except what you see - you assume they are normal so therefor they are rude.

Isn't that the same type of judgement you are complaining about???? Or do you assume that all children, regardless of physical and mental conditions or limitations, automatically grow into normal and mature adults? Of course not - so what is the magic age at which we should no longer "understand" that there may be a problem, and no longer give them the benefit of the doubt? My point is, there is none. That was the point of my post to the original OP since looks and comments were so upsetting to her, and why she should not get so upset.

 

[mattsdragon]

I have an autistic cousin, and I know your problems. I feel sorry for you and hope that your son is able to overcome as many of his developmental problems as possible.

Having said that, I try to be understandable, but sometimes it isn't possible. Case in point. When we were there in June, there was a family in line ahead of us. The day before, I had seen the mother giving the concierge at the resort holy heck because she couldn't get a reservation to a restuarant (can't remember which, one of the character meals if memory serves correct). The poor concierge was being very helpful and trying to keep her cool, but this lady was being a total. . .well, not a nice person. So I just looked at my wife (this was as we were checking in) and rolled my eyes (we work with the public frequently, so we know this type). Anyway, before I get totally off track, we ended up in line behind this woman and her kid for the bus to AK the next morning. The kid was being a complete brat, and at one point even smacked his father across the face, hard. My wife and I (and everyone else in line for that matter) gasped at the same time.

Sometimes kids are just complete brats, and it is completely the parents fault. And, quite frankly, the parents deserve to hear comments from the people that get kicked, screamed, SPAT ON (another long story there) because these parents won't do what my father did when I was that age and being out of control on my way to WDW (and one more long story, but suffice to say that when my dad said "I'll pull this car over", he meant it).

If more people didn't let their kids run all over them, you wouldn't get the "tsk tsk's" and "spoiled little s*it" comments that you undeservedly get.

 

[ellyn2000]

My 16 yr. old DS just got his license and a car and the first thing he asked me was if I could find an autism awareness ribbon magnet for it because his lifelong best friend's little brother is autistic. He (at 16) is very sensitive to the problems facing these families and that has made me more aware. I hate to see any family in the midst of a child's "meltdown" while in the happiest place on earth, but now I'll be sure to offer a look of encouragement no matter what the cause of the problem. God bless.

 

[mommaU4]

I have an autistic cousin, and I know your problems. I feel sorry for you and hope that your son is able to overcome as many of his developmental problems as possible.

Having said that, I try to be understandable, but sometimes it isn't possible. Case in point. When we were there in June, there was a family in line ahead of us. The day before, I had seen the mother giving the concierge at the resort holy heck because she couldn't get a reservation to a restuarant (can't remember which, one of the character meals if memory serves correct). The poor concierge was being very helpful and trying to keep her cool, but this lady was being a total. . .well, not a nice person. So I just looked at my wife (this was as we were checking in) and rolled my eyes (we work with the public frequently, so we know this type). Anyway, before I get totally off track, we ended up in line behind this woman and her kid for the bus to AK the next morning. The kid was being a complete brat, and at one point even smacked his father across the face, hard. My wife and I (and everyone else in line for that matter) gasped at the same time.

Sometimes kids are just complete brats, and it is completely the parents fault. And, quite frankly, the parents deserve to hear comments from the people that get kicked, screamed, SPAT ON (another long story there) because these parents won't do what my father did when I was that age and being out of control on my way to WDW (and one more long story, but suffice to say that when my dad said "I'll pull this car over", he meant it).

If more people didn't let their kids run all over them, you wouldn't get the "tsk tsk's" and "spoiled little s*it" comments that you undeservedly get.

If I'm out and about anywhere, doesn't have to be a theme park, and I see a parent whose child is completely out of control and the parent is making no visible attempt to control that child, then I get really upset and do send dirty looks sometimes. Especially if the things the child is doing is affecting others. We recently went to my nephews Navy graduation and the bleachers we sat on were metal and the ceremony was indoors. The people behind us had a little girl who was wearing dress/tap shoes that you could hear through the whole gym when she went up and down the stairs which she was doing over and over again. Several people were glaring at the parents who did nothing to stop their child! When we watched the video tape of the ceremony you could hear the girls shoes in the background! Unbelievable. Those are the parents that make me crazy and IMHO deserve the rude comments. I have 4 kids and am always careful to make sure to supervise them.

However, when I see a parent who is trying their best to calm their child I would NEVER say anything because we have all been there to some degree, and I am so sorry for anyone who's ever been made to feel bad. Parenting is hard under the best of circumstances and we should all be supporting each other.

 

[Carrieberry]

It has been awhile since I checked this thread, so i just read through a bunch of posts. Some made me happy, some sad and some angry. Thank you all for contributing. I am sure that not all people agree with each other on this matter. I only started the thread to make people take a second look at situations before reacting in a rude manner. By all means if you stop and think about and still think the parent deserves the rolled eyes or nasty comments, do or say what you have to. Do expect the person to say something right back to you though. I think most people feel they can do these things and just walk away unheard or unseen and be "passively confrontational" if that makes sense. Well no more for us. I think from now on if I get a look or a comment I will just say something right back like, "What's with the look? Oh are you autistic too because that sounds like something a developmentally delayed person would say" therefore taking care of two birds with one stone. I can find out if they are "one of those kids that has grown up into a adult with a problem" as well have have a snappy retort. By the way most adults that are developmentally delayed or autistic (a social disorder as well) do not pay attention to how children are behaving or misbehaving and many do not have a rude bone in their body much less be rude enough to roll eyes or make comments. They actually would probably just ask you "What is wrong with him/her etc". They come right out and say it. That is not rude-it is much nicer to ask. just once it would be nice to have someone say, "Is he ok? Do you need any help or is there anything I can do?" Instead of "What a brat" or "Holy tantrum!"

Again, thanks to all that have shared your stories about your children or children you know. I feel so much better knowing we have all been through this at one point or another. Well most of us-and for the other people who just don't get it, well I hope I see you at WDW some day.

Again, thanks to all that have posted!

Oh and to the poster that asked me if we were there in August-no. We were there the end of September. i sure am glad though that my son is not the only person to do that!! LOL!

 

[HappyLawyer]

hey, i taught special education for two years and i became more aware of different disabilities. The point is even if people shake their heads, tune them out, who cares what others think, no parent is perfect, no child is ever perfect and if the child is then something is wrong, we all have moments that makes us less then happy, we went to the circus one year and my neice who was 2 saw the people sitting behind us with some nachos, she practically climbed over my sister shoulders to get to the back row, the people were looking and we apologized she acted like she had never been fed in her life, she would not stop, but remember it passes and just tune others out.