Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker discussion thread (*** now contains spoilers ***)

[Mome Rath]

KoToR is so popular in the gaming world it shows the draw of a good Star Wars story without having a Skywalker attached in any way. There is so much material and lore they can tackle and have awesome stories, it's just going to take good writers and directors, with plenty of time to put out a quality product. (I really enjoyed Rise, as I've said, but man, would I love some type of KoToR-like story, as those are fantastic, even though KoToR 2 had story cuts and a time crunch issue.)

 

[BrianL]

The issue is not material, they have a whole Galaxy far far away to chose from. What Disney needs to do is pick one person to oversee the next trilogy/story line. My guess is that is the big discussion going on now, who that one person will be. You can have multiple directors on the different movies, as long as there is one over riding executive producer who keeps the story line moving in one direction. The only issue I see most have is that the last trilogy seemed a bit of a hodge podge with ideas coming from out of left field to try and explain issues with prior movies/episodes. So the end result was even if you enjoyed the movies as I did, they were still a bit disjointed. This can be fixed going forward with one over riding hand driving the storyline and in no way should there by any reason to believe Star Wars is in any serious trouble for future movies.

Is it really an issue though? I think the movies flow perfectly fine now that they are all completed. It's okay that it's a bit of a roller-coaster ride. The OT wasn't exactly fully baked going into it as Empire might have seen like a departure when it first came out and certainly some story beats were not conceived of when they started (the twin sister thing for example). Yeah, you can pick at any trilogy, but really it was fun and all three of these films will have grossed over a billion dollars at the box office - no small feat! I really don't think it's such a concern as some make it out to be.

 

[Disco]

Well RoS was entertaining and I enjoyed it. I just had to let go of my gripes with the inconsistencies with this trilogy to do so. I'm a little miffed that they killed off the Skywalker lineage though.
Otherwise, I think JJ did a good job bringing the story to a conclusion and salvaging what he could from the previous horrendous movie. JJ actually bringing a plot to a satisfying ending?!! LOL pigs must be flying!

That said, here is my list of critiques:

Lightspeed skipping
Lightspeed transit time (used to take a while now it is instantaneous)
Leia training Rey
Flying Stormtroopers were kinda fun but why were they using the speeders at first in the chase scene on Passana
Kylo surviving his TIE fighter crash
I guess there were two New Order transport ships with a bunch of Stromtroopers and Knights of Ren just hanging out behind the hill while all the good guys are making their escape (except Chewy) on the Bestoon Legacy
Why are Kylo and Rey still connected if Snope is dead and he was the one doing the connecting
Why is the crashed Death Star on Kef Bir and not Endore
How did Kylo get off of Kef Bir after Rey stole his ship
I can maybe believe a Super Star Destroyer could mount the hardware to destroy a planet but not regular sized Star destroyers
Why do they destroy Kijimi
A fighter flying to Exegol has to execute hairpin turns and complicated maneuvers to make it through the "maze", how are larger ships much less fleets of thousands of ships getting through at the same time
How are the Knights of Ren on Exegol and why does Kylo have to fight them, they are his Knights
I didn't mind the new Jedi powers in this trilogy too much, even if they were a bit disjointing, but with RoS Jedi and Sith are now basically vampires that can suck powers and life force out of each other
Palpatine has the powers of all Sith lords in him, seems he really could have used those powers in his previous altercations with Mace Windu, Yoda and Luke
Final Order Star Destroyers need special communication beacons to fly straight up
Resistance needs to land troops and horses on a Super Star Destroyer to blow up a dish antenna, yet Poe is seen flying his Xwing right by it, why doesn't he just shoot it
Why doesn't the vessel just tilt to the side to dump the resistance borders off or just climb higher to where they can't breath
Wedge Antilles should have been flying an Xwing, not gunning on the Falcon
Oh, and Dominic Monaghen from Lost being in this movie

Think that is most of them. Sorry if they have been discussed before but i'm mostly getting what grievances I have off my chest.

 

[BrianL]

Well RoS was entertaining and I enjoyed it. I just had to let go of my gripes with the inconsistencies with this trilogy to do so. I'm a little miffed that they killed off the Skywalker lineage though.
Otherwise, I think JJ did a good job bringing the story to a conclusion and salvaging what he could from the previous horrendous movie. JJ actually bringing a plot to a satisfying ending?!! LOL pigs must be flying!

That said, here is my list of critiques:

Lightspeed skipping
Lightspeed transit time (used to take a while now it is instantaneous)
Leia training Rey
Flying Stormtroopers were kinda fun but why were they using the speeders at first in the chase scene on Passana
Kylo surviving his TIE fighter crash
I guess there were two New Order transport ships with a bunch of Stromtroopers and Knights of Ren just hanging out behind the hill while all the good guys are making their escape (except Chewy) on the Bestoon Legacy
Why are Kylo and Rey still connected if Snope is dead and he was the one doing the connecting
Why is the crashed Death Star on Kef Bir and not Endore
How did Kylo get off of Kef Bir after Rey stole his ship
I can maybe believe a Super Star Destroyer could mount the hardware to destroy a planet but not regular sized Star destroyers
Why do they destroy Kijimi
A fighter flying to Exegol has to execute hairpin turns and complicated maneuvers to make it through the "maze", how are larger ships much less fleets of thousands of ships getting through at the same time
How are the Knights of Ren on Exegol and why does Kylo have to fight them, they are his Knights
I didn't mind the new Jedi powers in this trilogy too much, even if they were a bit disjointing, but with RoS Jedi and Sith are now basically vampires that can suck powers and life force out of each other
Palpatine has the powers of all Sith lords in him, seems he really could have used those powers in his previous altercations with Mace Windu, Yoda and Luke
Final Order Star Destroyers need special communication beacons to fly straight up
Resistance needs to land troops and horses on a Super Star Destroyer to blow up a dish antenna, yet Poe is seen flying his Xwing right by it, why doesn't he just shoot it
Why doesn't the vessel just tilt to the side to dump the resistance borders off or just climb higher to where they can't breath
Wedge Antilles should have been flying an Xwing, not gunning on the Falcon
Oh, and Dominic Monaghen from Lost being in this movie

Think that is most of them. Sorry if they have been discussed before but i'm mostly getting what grievances I have off my chest.

I like your list. Some of it is just "sci-fi stuff" that doesn't really bother me too much. I mean a LOT of stuff in Star Wars doesn't make sense if you think about it too hard. Some stuff is just done because it looks cool or is a trope to give the bad guys a vulnerability (exhaust ports, control ships, thermal regulators, signal towers). It's just something you have to roll with.

I think that parts of the Death Star II probably got scattered all through the moons of that system so I'm okay with that - they just wanted to use a new location and we all know that any planet (or moon) in Star Wars can only have one type of climate & terrain. Also, to the Knights or Ren, I think that when Ben turns away from the Dark Side, his Kylo Ren persona was dead - "from a certain point of view" and all that. I think they could sense that. He was no longer their leader. He was also an easy mark without a light saber - they weren't too thrilled when Rey slipped him one! D'oh! Ha ha! Oh, and I do believe that Palpatine was always the one controlling Snoke and creating the Force Link (2.0 with lights and sounds!) - though it seems that once connected the entire thing grew beyond his control.

 

[Disco]

I like your list. Some of it is just "sci-fi stuff" that doesn't really bother me too much. I mean a LOT of stuff in Star Wars doesn't make sense if you think about it too hard. Some stuff is just done because it looks cool or is a trope to give the bad guys a vulnerability (exhaust ports, control ships, thermal regulators, signal towers). It's just something you have to roll with.

I think that parts of the Death Star II probably got scattered all through the moons of that system so I'm okay with that - they just wanted to use a new location and we all know that any planet (or moon) in Star Wars can only have one type of climate & terrain. Also, to the Knights or Ren, I think that when Ben turns away from the Dark Side, his Kylo Ren persona was dead - "from a certain point of view" and all that. I think they could sense that. He was no longer their leader. He was also an easy mark without a light saber - they weren't too thrilled when Rey slipped him one! D'oh! Ha ha! Oh, and I do believe that Palpatine was always the one controlling Snoke and creating the Force Link (2.0 with lights and sounds!) - though it seems that once connected the entire thing grew beyond his control.

One type of climate per planet, that is golden!
Yeah I kind of hated that Rey and Kylo can transfer physical stuff between each other but that scene where he gets the lightsaber to fight the Knights was super cool so i left it off my list.

 

[BrianL]

One type of climate per planet, that is golden!
Yeah I kind of hated that Rey and Kylo can transfer physical stuff between each other but that scene where he gets the lightsaber to fight the Knights was super cool so i left it off my list.

Well, I see that as an extension of "The World Between Worlds" form Star Wars Rebels. There is a precedent for it.

Speaking of, I had my mind blown regarding Force Healing. We've seen it in a movie before - Obi Wan does it to Luke on Tatooine after the Tusken Raider attack! I mean, I don't know if it was intended as such, but it pretty much fits.

 

[Aurora0427]

Ok, so my precious angel children finally went back to school today, so my husband and I were finally able to see RoS. We both went in completely unspoiled. I loved it. Absolutely loved it. I know there are things I could pick apart, but I’m not. I think they wrapped it up in the absolute best possible way. Palps is really the ultimate bad guy.... he is completely unredeemable. I loved that Rey used all of her Palpatine power for light. And how powerful she is. The force healing was awesome. I never worried she’d turn. Palpatine is just pure disgusting evil, and I loved it. Not sure how he survived Vader tossing him down the mine shaft, but whatever. I loved Ben coming back to the light. I hated seeing Han and Leia’s son acting like such a punk a** chump Anakin Skywalker 2.0. It was such a nice legacy for Leia that her death brought back her son. All the parallels.... so many parallels. I think my favorite scene was the ending.... the twins who did so much for the galaxy together again through the Force at the place where their parents stayed so many years ago. Loved the camaraderie between Rey, Finn, Chewie, Poe, the droids etc. Finally, I loved seeing Leia kick Luke’s butt at Jedi training.... showing the powerful Jedi she could’ve become had she chosen that path. Her mom would be proud. Plus seeing a young Mark Hamill as Luke and a young Carrie Fisher as Leia is always awesome.

I’m still grieving the loss of Carrie and although this movie was supposed to have an even bigger role for her, I thought JJ did an amazing job giving her an important role and the way she died and became at one with the force when Ben did was great. I absolutely HATED TLJ, I left the theater wishing they’d stopped at RotJ, that’s how much I hated it, and I was dreading seeing this movie without Carrie, but I loved it. Every minute. I may have even cried. Ha.

Sorry for the long post, but I figured this was the only place I could “talk” about my thoughts!

 

[LizzyS]

I can understand saying TLJ is not your fave SW movie, but the hatred for it I will never, ever understand.

 

[LizzyS]

I hated seeing Han and Leia’s son acting like such a punk a** chump Anakin Skywalker 2.0.

This attitude confirms my belief that the general audience only wants infallible machines as bad guys and not human beings. Too scary to think about for most, I guess.

 

[BrianL]

I can understand saying TLJ is not your fave SW movie, but the hatred for it I will never, ever understand.

Heck, it actually probably is my least favorite Star Wars movie - but that still means it's better than pretty much any other movies.

 

[Mome Rath]

This attitude confirms my belief that the general audience only wants infallible machines as bad guys and not human beings. Too scary to think about for most, I guess.

But who would want to see Han and Leia’s son acting like a murdering wretch? "I hope Han and Leia's love produces a terrified, homicidal servant of the Dark Side..." I think that was the point, not that villains in general have to be "just so."

 

[Aurora0427]

This attitude confirms my belief that the general audience only wants infallible machines as bad guys and not human beings. Too scary to think about for most, I guess.

Oh geez. All I meant was it was a sad end for the son of my childhood heroes and I’m glad he was redeemed in the end. Because I felt bad for Han and Leia and in two of the movies he was a bit too whiny, like Anakin was in the prequels. Did you even read the rest of my post where I said I loved how Leia brought him back to the light?

It is after all, only a movie. Your comment is just not where I was going, at all.

 

[Aurora0427]

But who would want to see Han and Leia’s son acting like a murdering wretch? "I hope Han and Leia's love produces a terrified, homicidal servant of the Dark Side..." I think that was the point, not that villains in general have to be "just so."

THIS WAS MY POINT. EXACTLY. Thank you.

 

[Aurora0427]

I can understand saying TLJ is not your fave SW movie, but the hatred for it I will never, ever understand.

I’m not interested in arguing with anyone over their opinions on TLJ. I hated the way it made me feel when it was over, I hated the direction they went with Luke’s story. I absolutely loved RoS, and I’d prefer to focus on that, and all the positives I listed in my original post.

 

[disneygirlsng]

I can understand saying TLJ is not your fave SW movie, but the hatred for it I will never, ever understand.

This. Then again, I don't understand how anybody can not like/love any of the newer movies.

 

[Mikey15]

Well RoS was entertaining and I enjoyed it. I just had to let go of my gripes with the inconsistencies with this trilogy to do so. I'm a little miffed that they killed off the Skywalker lineage though.
Otherwise, I think JJ did a good job bringing the story to a conclusion and salvaging what he could from the previous horrendous movie. JJ actually bringing a plot to a satisfying ending?!! LOL pigs must be flying!

That said, here is my list of critiques:

Lightspeed skipping
Lightspeed transit time (used to take a while now it is instantaneous)
Leia training Rey
Flying Stormtroopers were kinda fun but why were they using the speeders at first in the chase scene on Passana
Kylo surviving his TIE fighter crash
I guess there were two New Order transport ships with a bunch of Stromtroopers and Knights of Ren just hanging out behind the hill while all the good guys are making their escape (except Chewy) on the Bestoon Legacy
Why are Kylo and Rey still connected if Snope is dead and he was the one doing the connecting
Why is the crashed Death Star on Kef Bir and not Endore
How did Kylo get off of Kef Bir after Rey stole his ship
I can maybe believe a Super Star Destroyer could mount the hardware to destroy a planet but not regular sized Star destroyers
Why do they destroy Kijimi
A fighter flying to Exegol has to execute hairpin turns and complicated maneuvers to make it through the "maze", how are larger ships much less fleets of thousands of ships getting through at the same time
How are the Knights of Ren on Exegol and why does Kylo have to fight them, they are his Knights
I didn't mind the new Jedi powers in this trilogy too much, even if they were a bit disjointing, but with RoS Jedi and Sith are now basically vampires that can suck powers and life force out of each other
Palpatine has the powers of all Sith lords in him, seems he really could have used those powers in his previous altercations with Mace Windu, Yoda and Luke
Final Order Star Destroyers need special communication beacons to fly straight up
Resistance needs to land troops and horses on a Super Star Destroyer to blow up a dish antenna, yet Poe is seen flying his Xwing right by it, why doesn't he just shoot it
Why doesn't the vessel just tilt to the side to dump the resistance borders off or just climb higher to where they can't breath
Wedge Antilles should have been flying an Xwing, not gunning on the Falcon
Oh, and Dominic Monaghen from Lost being in this movie

Think that is most of them. Sorry if they have been discussed before but i'm mostly getting what grievances I have off my chest.

For what it’s worth a lot of these questions do have answers, and others can be rationalized.

1. I found lightspeed skipping jarring too. Meant to tie into Smuggler’s Run or something? But they do show in several spots of this movie how 42 years of technology has changed, in-galaxy (compare BB8 to D-0, for example) so it makes sense if the computers that calculate lightspeed jumps have gotten better/faster

2. Hyperspace travel time. It was established as early as A New Hope that some time passes in Hyperspace (Obi-Wan training Luke, “let the Wookie win”) and as recently as The Last Jedi (contemplative shot of Leia as the ship comes out of Hyperspace). But they do sometimes skip showing the time passage. Clearly traveling Outer Rim (Tatooine) to Alderaan takes time, but in any short jump at least some distance would be traveled. Also, speed of Hyperdrives may have increased in-Galaxy as well. Real-world, I’m guessing some travel time got left on the editing room floor.

3. I’ve heard a lot of people like Leia training Rey because they felt Rey’s Ahch-To training with Luke was lacking something compared to Luke/Yoda on Dagobah. I found myself focusing on how they were using Carrie footage though and it took me out of the scene a bit. They didn’t have much to work with.

4. Yeah, just typical movie chase sequence stuff.

5. A low-altitude, in-atmosphere crash? I don’t think it was much for a Force-user to walk away from that.

6. Agreed. Doesn’t make much sense on second transport just chilling where no one could see it, and I think we all saw that “twist” coming which cheapened it a fair bit. Same with Hux.

7. I questioned this too. On one level it seems like plot convenience that they’d still be connected and that it would grow stronger. If Snoke simply tapped into something that was already there and brought it to the surface though? It makes sense that it wouldn’t go away.

Other related questions though. If Palp created Snoke, did Snoke report back to Palp? Did Snoke even know how he came into being? It seemed like Palp didn’t know they were a “Dyad” until he saw them together, which would imply he didn’t know everything Snoke knew. I feel like they had time to clear up several things about Palp that they just chose not to.

8. Kef Bir is another moon of Endor. It’s just not the forest moon. Endor is a gas giant. Plus the tides looked cool.

9. Kylo was still Supreme Leader of the First Order at the time, right? He probably just sent a transmission requesting that Hyperdrive-equipped TIE.

10.
11.
Etc...

 

[YesterDark]

well, a) Rise of Palpatine would have given away that little return too early ... and b) because it is the rise of what "Skywalker" represents so when Rey takes the name "Skywalker" that is the rise of that vs calling herself a Jedi or whatever

I think Rise is more the Rise of Ben Skywalker as much as Rey deciding on a last name for herself randomly on Tatoonine.

 

[YesterDark]

Kind of makes you wonder how bad Lucas pitch for his final trilogy was to them, if they didn't even consider it, and went with this hot mess of a story line over the past three films.

I don't think they ever went for this mess of a story line. I think it just happened because then never PLANNED it from the get go. It was all an accident.

 

[YesterDark]

KoToR is so popular in the gaming world it shows the draw of a good Star Wars story without having a Skywalker attached in any way. There is so much material and lore they can tackle and have awesome stories, it's just going to take good writers and directors, with plenty of time to put out a quality product. (I really enjoyed Rise, as I've said, but man, would I love some type of KoToR-like story, as those are fantastic, even though KoToR 2 had story cuts and a time crunch issue.)

KOTOR would be a great place for TV shows. I'm not sure if those stories need a retelling on the big screen.

 

[YesterDark]

This. Then again, I don't understand how anybody can not like/love any of the newer movies.

Hatred is no a tough word. But TLJ was god awful from a story telling point. Terrible from a "middle act" point of view. The ideas and themes it was trying to portray were just fine. I like Luke's fall from grace. It was just clumsy and awful at what it was trying to do.