Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reaction and Discussion *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

[DVCcurious]

I saw The Force Awakens 6 times. I saw Rogue One one time. I saw The Last Jedi 1 time. I thought The Force Awakens was a good movie. The other two I have no opinion either way. They were just "meh".

I expect Solo to suck. So I'm not looking forward to it. I'll probably go in week 4 or 5 or maybe I'll just catch it on TV if it's getting terrible reviews.

So I'd argue TFA did so well not only because it was "new" and had little competition, but also because it was a good movie and the others weren't. The part where Rey leaves the Star Destroyer, drinks from the bottle, and slides down the hill and rides into town is one of my favorite sequences in any Star Wars movie. The music, the background of the crashed Star Destroyers, it's awesome. The Last Jedi had nothing like that.

Although I now realize TFA is just Lost Season 1: raise a whole bunch of "mysteries" (Who is Snoke, Rey's origins, Luke meeting Rey) without worrying about the need to answer those mysteries. I now look at TFA like I look at Lost Season 1: I thought it was awesome at the time, but now realize I've been bamboozled! Why hasn't anyone come to save the people on Lost, what is the characters back story? Who cares? Just like who cares who Rey's parents are.

At this point "Star Wars the Saga" is over, and it's now "Star Wars the one-off stories". That just doesn't carry the same weight.

At least I have Attack of the Clones on DVD to watch when I need a classic Star Wars fix.

 

[skier_pete]

At least I have Attack of the Clones on DVD to watch when I need a classic Star Wars fix.

OK - you are just pulling our legs now, right? IF not - I am apparently in complete opposite land from you. I did enjoy a lot of the individual scenes in TFA but didn't feel it came together to make a great movie. Enjoyed Rogue One and TLJ much more. However, I will agree with your LOST Point - in that they set up a bunch of question only to have Rian Johnson decide "Nope that's not important". As I've said earlier in the thread, while I enjoyed this movie a lot, I am disturbed by the lack of a continuous 3-part story that they are trying to tell. Of course, the OT was not truly a 3-part story. I was a 1-part story followed by a 2-part story. And I would argue the PT didn't work much as a 3-part story either, so maybe we shouldn't expect much from Star Wars continuity, eh?

 

[FCDub]

Although I now realize TFA is just Lost Season 1: raise a whole bunch of "mysteries" (Who is Snoke, Rey's origins, Luke meeting Rey) without worrying about the need to answer those mysteries. I now look at TFA like I look at Lost Season 1: I thought it was awesome at the time, but now realize I've been bamboozled! Why hasn't anyone come to save the people on Lost, what is the characters back story? Who cares? Just like who cares who Rey's parents are.

Just because you didn't get the answer you like doesn't mean Rey's backstory is pointless. Both JJ and Rian independently came to the conclusion that her parents are nobodies. The Last Jedi, with its answers about Rey's parents and the final scene with the stable boy force-pulling the broom, did a lot of work to show that the force doesn't discriminate – that anyone dumped or stuck on a planet going nowhere fast can harness the power inside of them and dream of flying across the galaxy. That's a powerful thread to bring to the Star Wars saga that up until this point has been so centered on one family's bloodline.

I am SO relieved she's not a Skywalker or a Kenobi or whatever else people were expecting.

 

[umichigan10]

OK - you are just pulling our legs now, right? IF not - I am apparently in complete opposite land from you. I did enjoy a lot of the individual scenes in TFA but didn't feel it came together to make a great movie. Enjoyed Rogue One and TLJ much more. However, I will agree with your LOST Point - in that they set up a bunch of question only to have Rian Johnson decide "Nope that's not important". As I've said earlier in the thread, while I enjoyed this movie a lot, I am disturbed by the lack of a continuous 3-part story that they are trying to tell. Of course, the OT was not truly a 3-part story. I was a 1-part story followed by a 2-part story. And I would argue the PT didn't work much as a 3-part story either, so maybe we shouldn't expect much from Star Wars continuity, eh?

I generally agree with you. TLJ absolutely smashes TFA when it came to cinematography. Not to say that TFA was shot poorly, but I really like the shots and angles Johnson used in this one.

Also as someone who was too young to understand the nuances of the prequels when they came out, as I’ve watched them again as an adult.....let’s not compare either of these new films to those, especially attack of the clones

 

[TomServo27]

I think the majority of people nowadays don't pay to see movies more than once at the theater - it's just too expensive and they are available at home so quickly.)

This is a good point. Also everyone has a 60 inch tv with great sound you can get a much closer to theater experience at home now than even 5 years ago. A big reason to see these movies in the theater for me is to see them with a crowd. The only movies I’ve seen more than once at the theater probably since the prequels are TFW and TLJ.

 

[umichigan10]

This is a good point. Also everyone has a 60 inch tv with great sound you can get a much closer to theater experience at home now than even 5 years ago. A big reason to see these movies in the theater for me is to see them with a crowd. The only movies I’ve seen more than once at the theater probably since the prequels are TFW and TLJ.

Also there’s ways nowadays to illegally stream and watch said movies from the comfort of your own home while they’re still running. Sure the quality might not be great, but it’s free vs getting out of your house, driving, and then paying to see the movie

 

[SWRdtWD]

So I'm trying to take all these factors in...thanks for the great points!

Episode 8 is going to end around $600 mil in North American (about $75 more than rogue one and $350 less that 7)....it's track is $24 million this weekend which will end its chances of gaining significant gross

It's looking like $50 or so in china...maybe more or less.

So that would be a total take of $1.275 billion or so (nothing to sneeze at) worldwide.

$200,000,000 more than Rogue 1 and $700,000,000-800,000,000 less than episode 7.

An increase of 20% over the anthology gross and a drop of 38% from the episodic gross.

Today's possible reasons (as in posted today) for decrease off force awakens are (summarized):
1. Star Wars fatigue
2. Cultural disconnect in china
3. Lack of funds to purchase repeat tickets to the movies
4. Ability to watch on large LED screens at home
5. Ability to stream pirated copies, eliminating the need for movie trips

Any other ideas? Assuming that best case scenario was somewhere between $1.6 and $1.7 total?

What does that predict for episode 9? Solo? Thoughts?

 

[TheMaxRebo]

So I'm trying to take all these factors in...thanks for the great points!

Episode 8 is going to end around $600 mil in North American (about $75 more than rogue one and $350 less that 7)....it's track is $24 million this weekend which will end its chances of gaining significant gross

It's looking like $50 or so in china...maybe more or less.

So that would be a total take of $1.275 billion or so (nothing to sneeze at) worldwide.

$200,000,000 more than Rogue 1 and $700,000,000-800,000,000 less than episode 7.

An increase of 20% over the anthology gross and a drop of 38% from the episodic gross.

Today's possible reasons (as in posted today) for decrease off force awakens are (summarized):
1. Star Wars fatigue
2. Cultural disconnect in china
3. Lack of funds to purchase repeat tickets to the movies
4. Ability to watch on large LED screens at home
5. Ability to stream pirated copies, eliminating the need for movie trips

Any other ideas? Assuming that best case scenario was somewhere between $1.6 and $1.7 total?

What does that predict for episode 9? Solo? Thoughts?

Other reasons:
- A middle episodes tend to to perform as well at was as self contained as a story so I think that lowers the desire to see it multiple times
- clearly there is a decent portion of the population that didn't like it and that group probably saw it fewer times than the previous one and may have pishes others to not see it that were on the fence

 

[SWRdtWD]

Other reasons:
- A middle episodes tend to to perform as well at was as self contained as a story so I think that lowers the desire to see it multiple times
- clearly there is a decent portion of the population that didn't like it and that group probably saw it fewer times than the previous one and may have pishes others to not see it that were on the fence

But how can that be? Didn't the critics love it?

don't I see dozens of "it's great" type posts on the disboards? If so many people like it...how could it drop from episode 7 by 40%?

 

[pmaurer74]

But how can that be? Didn't the critics love it?

don't I see dozens of "it's great" type posts on the disboards? If so many people like it...how could it drop from episode 7 by 40%?

There is a large fan base that hated the movie... I mean HATED it. The critique reviews are great but the fan base is very split. Personally I loved it... it is in my top 2 for sure. Everyone I know loved it but there are many people who did not.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Today's possible reasons (as in posted today) for decrease off force awakens are (summarized):
1. Star Wars fatigue
2. Cultural disconnect in china
3. Lack of funds to purchase repeat tickets to the movies
4. Ability to watch on large LED screens at home
5. Ability to stream pirated copies, eliminating the need for movie trips

Weren’t 2-5 above true for TFA?

I would say 2 & 4 are the same over the mere 2yrs, 3 should be slightly less true as economy continues to improve, and maybe 5 is slightly more true today. Hardly an obvious shift since TFA.

I think...

• TFA was the first GOOD SW movie since OT to many fans — and we got to see our original hero’s again. 1 is plausible in part.
• And a vocal portion of the fan base hating this film has to be a factor IMO. I think that affects:
  • general enthusiasm for the film and thus some 1st viewings
  • as well as repeats to the box office by all the fans who hated it.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

But how can that be? Didn't the critics love it?

don't I see dozens of "it's great" type posts on the disboards? If so many people like it...how could it drop from episode 7 by 40%?

Yup, you are correct - critics loved it and dozens of posts from people that said it is great - and obviously that is everyone in the whole world .... oh, no wait, it is possible for some people to enjoy something and others to not which is clearly the case here

And as for how, I think we have now listed about 7 reasons for why it will drop a bit from episode VII (just like Episode V dropped form Episode IV)

 

[SWRdtWD]

Weren’t 2-5 above true for TFA?

I would say 2 & 4 are the same over the mere 2yrs, 3 should be slightly less true as economy continues to improve, and maybe 5 is slightly more true today. Hardly an obvious shift since TFA.

I think...

• TFA was the first GOOD SW movie since OT to many fans. 1 is plausible in part.
• And a vocal portion of the fan base hating this film has to be a factor IMO. I think that affects:
  • general enthusiasm for the film and thus some 1st viewings
  • as well as repeats to the box office by all the fans who hated it.

Absolutely

Absolutely

I would ask good for WHO? The masses don't typically worry too much about their portfolios and dividends...

YEP...which means disney has a problem now and moving forward.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Weren’t 2-5 above true for TFA?

I would say 2 & 4 are the same over the mere 2yrs, 3 should be slightly less true as economy continues to improve, and maybe 5 is slightly more true today. Hardly an obvious shift since TFA.

I think...

• TFA was the first GOOD SW movie since OT to many fans. 1 is plausible in part.
• And a vocal portion of the fan base hating this film has to be a factor IMO. I think that affects:
  • general enthusiasm for the film and thus some 1st viewings
  • as well as repeats to the box office by all the fans who hated it.

Obviously this is anecdotal but I know my kids wanted to see TFA multiple times more than TLJ and part of it might be the nature of this one - more violent and more of a downer and just less a complete story ... but also, like you said TFA was the first "good" (and I say that meaning the first one the majority of people liked, the prequels definitely have their fans but is more split) and so it felt like more people finding excuses to go back - I know my kids got invited to a few birthday parties to watch it even well after opening, for example. Again, anecdotal but I think supports some of the thinking you shared

 

[SWRdtWD]

Yup, you are correct - critics loved it and dozens of posts from people that said it is great - and obviously that is everyone in the whole world .... oh, no wait, it is possible for some people to enjoy something and others to not which is clearly the case here

And as for how, I think we have now listed about 7 reasons for why it will drop a bit from episode VII (just like Episode V dropped form Episode IV)

Hmmm...guess I'll have to think about that...

Question though - when Star Wars was released, did it not launch a western movie going cultural revolution (assist to jaws) that changed the summer and product tie ins forever?

As in did it not run for over a year and then re-run after second release in 1978 due to popularity?

So would a 2 year run for a first of its kind make any chance of the darker empire to get close impossible?

Wouldn't the phantom menace/attack of the clones drop be more appropriate a comparision? And both those movies were bad and everyone seems
To say the force awakens was "good"?

Wouldn't a reason it's gonna go down 35% in a hyperinflated priced Hollywood world be that people aren't seeing it? They have to be convinced to go see/resee a new Star Wars?

...asking for a friend

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Obviously this is anecdotal but I know my kids wanted to see TFA multiple times more than TLJ and part of it might be the nature of this one - more violent and more of a downer and just less a complete story ... but also, like you said TFA was the first "good" (and I say that meaning the first one the majority of people liked, the prequels definitely have their fans but is more split) and so it felt like more people finding excuses to go back - I know my kids got invited to a few birthday parties to watch it even well after opening, for example. Again, anecdotal but I think supports some of the thinking you shared

That effectively adds ONE possible thing to the list: this movie is “more of a downer”. That’s like V vs. VI. Seems plausible to me.

That still only leaves 3 real reasons IMO:

• Some SW fatigue (only 2 yrs since 7, plus rogue one, plus TFA was first good SW film to MANY since OT — I stick by that)
• Very negative reaction by a very vocal portion of the fan base, affecting some 1st views and repeats
• 8 is more of a downer than 7, affecting some repeats

All the rest mentioned — mostly technology — was true for TFA... only 2yrs ago.

 

[SWRdtWD]

Obviously this is anecdotal but I know my kids wanted to see TFA multiple times more than TLJ and part of it might be the nature of this one - more violent and more of a downer and just less a complete story ... but also, like you said TFA was the first "good" (and I say that meaning the first one the majority of people liked, the prequels definitely have their fans but is more split) and so it felt like more people finding excuses to go back - I know my kids got invited to a few birthday parties to watch it even well after opening, for example. Again, anecdotal but I think supports some of the thinking you shared

...I don't believe any of your points to be anecdotal.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Absolutely

Absolutely

I would ask good for WHO? The masses don't typically worry too much about their portfolios and dividends...

YEP...which means disney has a problem now and moving forward.

Wrt economy, that’s why I said “slightly” better since TFA. Unemployment is down, discretionary spending was up over the holidays, I think... marginally better. In any case, my main point is that it isn’t WORSE since TFA.

 

[SWRdtWD]

That effectively adds ONE possible thing to the list: this movie is “more of a downer”. That’s like V vs. VI. Seems plausible to me.

• Very negative reaction by a very vocal portion of the fan base, affecting some 1st views and repeats.

Why was there a negative reaction? Was there something wrong with the movie itself? The cannon? The plot? Character development? Congruity with the other movies? Tone? Audience connection with the characters? Bad writing/direction?

 

[SWRdtWD]

Wrt economy, that’s why I said “slightly” better since TFA. Unemployment is down, discretionary spending was up over the holidays, I think... marginally better. In any case, my main point is that it isn’t WORSE since TFA.

Definitely not "worse" than force awakens...agree.

Though as baby boomers (largest generation in American history) Leave the workforce in droves...wouldn't that artificially depress the unemployment numbers? And I think I saw average wages are not up relative to inflation except where forced to be by regulation.

There still should be at least as much purchasing power to have ticket sales be inline with a reasonable drop from TFA...one would think.