Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reaction and Discussion *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

[jknezek]

Thanks for clarifying and if I am reading this correctly, the issue is not really with Luke leaving initially but more that he didn't eventually realize the situation for what it really was and come back and truly try to fix it, in person, not just as a projection and then just going into the Force and leaving the rest behind (so he did what he could to let others escape, but that isn't really enough to set them up to succeed, just survive). If I have that right then I can totally understand that and it makes sense. I've seen a lot of people complain about Luke changing at all and leaving at all and stuff like that, (but doesn't seem like you are in that camp)

You've got it. I can see Luke leaving if he really thought the Jedi needed to end. He left a map in case HE was desperately needed, but not a promise to return and train more Jedi. But when he was desperately needed, he was still a coward. And it was basically his fault. He created Kylo Ren and he needed to own it even if he couldn't beat it. And he didn't. And when you run away from your problems and hide from the consequences those problems create... well, you are a coward. Kathleen Kennedy is there just for these kinds of problems. She is the steward of this product and she failed.

 

[jknezek]

Luke basically did the exact same thing Obi Wan did in A New Hope. He distracted Vader and his forces so the others could escape. Then, he "gave up," becoming one with the force.

Unlike Obi Wan, Luke didn't do this "in person," but all of the strength it took cost him his life.

This wasn't meant as an argument directed at you because I understand you're just retelling someone else's opinion, not your own.

But Obi Wan answered the call. He came to help the Rebellion. It's just in the end the ONLY way for the others to escape was for him to distract Vader, which cost him his life. Luke didn't come when called. He didn't try anything else. He sat in his cozy home and conceivably watched the drama hoping he wasn't going to have to give himself up. Because he didn't want to clean up his mess, he wanted to hide. Sure he eventually did something, from his nice cozy home where he could go out on his terms without being hurt, but it wasn't an attempt to fix the problem he caused. It was just the easy thing to do. The coward's way out to the end.

 

[jade1]

But Obi Wan answered the call. He came to help the Rebellion. It's just in the end the ONLY way for the others to escape was for him to distract Vader, which cost him his life. Luke didn't come when called. He didn't try anything else. He sat in his cozy home and conceivably watched the drama hoping he wasn't going to have to give himself up. Because he didn't want to clean up his mess, he wanted to hide. Sure he eventually did something, from his nice cozy home where he could go out on his terms without being hurt, but it wasn't an attempt to fix the problem he caused. It was just the easy thing to do. The coward's way out to the end.

I didn't mind Luke's role in all of this, but selfishly wanted him back in person on 9. I'm hoping some decent flashbacks and maybe some ghost inspiration at least.

But I'm also not sure taking the canon in fire in person would have helped. I remember Yoda conversing with Luke that Rey now possessed all the necessary tools, I guess to take it from there, maybe just needing moral support. But giving time for her to rescue the remaining survivors seemed like a priority.

That scene was pretty good I thought, nobody I know knew he was projecting and seemed to like it. Liked how he wasn't kicking up any red during the fight.

I suppose they could have had him come back with Chewy or take his fighter and show up in person. Not sure what the storyline would best be from there.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I didn't really want him to kick butt. It was clear each movie was supposed to eliminate one OT character and it was clear this was Luke's turn. I didn't even need to see him be a bad @ss anymore. All I wanted was him to try and fix his mistake. Even in the very end, he didn't try to fix his mistake, he just copped out and killed himself giving the 12 remaining people a chance to run away.

I see what you’re saying. I thought this story completely fell within what I’d imagine possible for Luke — and for any Jedi, apparently (Yoda, Ben)!

And I get that each OT character was supposed to get their exit, but ESPECIALLY in light of Carrie Fisher’s passing, I think it would have been better to keep Luke alive. And eminently doable with editing. Leave him cross-legged on the island!

Then give the Skywalker saga a real ending that connected to the beginning in SOME intelligent and satisfying way — with Luke himself.

But that’s me.

 

[Iowamomof4]

This discussion of Rey and the lightsaber made me go back and re-watch her battle with Kylo in the forest at the end of TFA. Man, she was horrible! It seemed like Kylo wasn't trying to kill her, more just blocking her blows. He wanted to convince her to turn even at that point - to let him teach her. When he mentioned the Force, she centered herself and gained some strength (from the Force), but still wasn't suddenly amazing with the blade. Yes, she bested him - barely. If he hadn't been mortally wounded by Chewie before the battle had begun, I'm sure Finn and Rey would have had no chance whatsoever. If you don't or can't buy that, so be it. I guess I'm willing to go where JJ and RJ want to lead me. It may not be how I would write the movies myself, but since Kathleen Kennedy apparently lost my number, I guess this is what we're left with.

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

since Kathleen Kennedy apparently lost my number, I guess this is what we're left with.

She’s forgetful like that.

 

[pmaurer74]

This discussion of Rey and the lightsaber made me go back and re-watch her battle with Kylo in the forest at the end of TFA. Man, she was horrible! It seemed like Kylo wasn't trying to kill her, more just blocking her blows. He wanted to convince her to turn even at that point - to let him teach her. When he mentioned the Force, she centered herself and gained some strength (from the Force), but still wasn't suddenly amazing with the blade. Yes, she bested him - barely. If he hadn't been mortally wounded by Chewie before the battle had begun, I'm sure Finn and Rey would have had no chance whatsoever. If you don't or can't buy that, so be it. I guess I'm willing to go where JJ and RJ want to lead me. It may not be how I would write the movies myself, but since Kathleen Kennedy apparently lost my number, I guess this is what we're left with.

Yes, the book mentions him being weakened by being injured and that Rey was not very good with the light saber but Rey was angry. In TFA Rey always attacks first either with the blaster or blade, he just defends because he is curious about what he senses in her and confused. He had also just killed his father and the book mentions how much this weakened him as well. He thought it would make him stronger but it didn't.

 

[skier_pete]

SO Box Office Receipts do not make a movie good or bad - if bad = poor box office - then we would have 5 Transformers movies.

The question really is - how is the movie doing versus expectations - particularly Disney's expectations.

TFA did $936M domestic and $2.07B international. #1 all time domestic by a mile - #3 worldwide. I think comparing TLJ to this is a poor move. This was the first new SW movie in 10 years, and the first one anyone was really excited about in 17 years (considering 1999s The Phantom Menace as that).

Rogue One did $532M domestic, $1.06 international. #8 all-time domestic, 23rd all time worldwide. I think THIS is a better comparison for the Star Wars standard Box Office. I am sure Disney realizes that TFA cannot be the standard.

TLJ (as of Thursday) is at $549M domestic and $1.12B international. ranking it 6th all time domestic and 16th worldwide. It has pretty much been on track to finish in the $625-$650 domestic and $1.2-1.3 billion range. This means it will probably land either 5th (ahead of Avengers) or may squeak to 4th (ahead of Jurassic World) but not likely. I wrote THIS EXACT SAME sentence two weeks ago, so it's been on that track for quite a while. Worldwide it is likely to land around 8-10, but Star Wars is historically not as strong internationally as many other franchises.

So back to the original question - did it meet Disney's expectations? My answer to that is yes. I think TFA EXCEEDED expectations, but I think this movie met but did not exceed. It's hard to imagine that top 5 domestic and top 10 international would be considered a poor showing. The fact that it will exceed Rogue One by a good 20% will leave them happy.

The final question is "Will audience response hurt future box office?" - that's a tougher question to answer, but I think generally the answer is no. I think overall most people did like the movie, though those that didn't like it seem to do so vehemently. However, it's seems the more hard core fans are the ones that hate it the most - and those are the ones they are LEAST likely to lose. (Note this is similar to when Disney Parks makes changes that piss off people on the boards - and many people rail how the parks are so horrible compared to how they used to be - but for the most part none of these people stop going to the parks.)

Really the only thing that can really damage this franchise at this stage is MULTIPLE STINKERS. I mean, look at the DC Universe. They had to have Man of Steel, B VS S, Suicide Squad all be awful before it even really dented Justice League.

So, we look ahead now to Han Solo. Lots of questions swirling around this movie, not the least of which is we are 4 months away and not even a trailer. Will we get a BAD Star Wars movie? One that's truly bad, not the way this movie is seen as bad by a portion of the base.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

SO Box Office Receipts do not make a movie good or bad - if bad = poor box office - then we would have 5 Transformers movies.

The question really is - how is the movie doing versus expectations - particularly Disney's expectations.

TFA did $936M domestic and $2.07B international. #1 all time domestic by a mile - #3 worldwide. I think comparing TLJ to this is a poor move. This was the first new SW movie in 10 years, and the first one anyone was really excited about in 17 years (considering 1999s The Phantom Menace as that).

Rogue One did $532M domestic, $1.06 international. #8 all-time domestic, 23rd all time worldwide. I think THIS is a better comparison for the Star Wars standard Box Office. I am sure Disney realizes that TFA cannot be the standard.

TLJ (as of Thursday) is at $549M domestic and $1.12B international. ranking it 6th all time domestic and 16th worldwide. It has pretty much been on track to finish in the $625-$650 domestic and $1.2-1.3 billion range. This means it will probably land either 5th (ahead of Avengers) or may squeak to 4th (ahead of Jurassic World) but not likely. I wrote THIS EXACT SAME sentence two weeks ago, so it's been on that track for quite a while. Worldwide it is likely to land around 8-10, but Star Wars is historically not as strong internationally as many other franchises.

So back to the original question - did it meet Disney's expectations? My answer to that is yes. I think TFA EXCEEDED expectations, but I think this movie met but did not exceed. It's hard to imagine that top 5 domestic and top 10 international would be considered a poor showing. The fact that it will exceed Rogue One by a good 20% will leave them happy.

The final question is "Will audience response hurt future box office?" - that's a tougher question to answer, but I think generally the answer is no. I think overall most people did like the movie, though those that didn't like it seem to do so vehemently. However, it's seems the more hard core fans are the ones that hate it the most - and those are the ones they are LEAST likely to lose. (Note this is similar to when Disney Parks makes changes that piss off people on the boards - and many people rail how the parks are so horrible compared to how they used to be - but for the most part none of these people stop going to the parks.)

Really the only thing that can really damage this franchise at this stage is MULTIPLE STINKERS. I mean, look at the DC Universe. They had to have Man of Steel, B VS S, Suicide Squad all be awful before it even really dented Justice League.

So, we look ahead now to Han Solo. Lots of questions swirling around this movie, not the least of which is we are 4 months away and not even a trailer. Will we get a BAD Star Wars movie? One that's truly bad, not the way this movie is seen as bad by a portion of the base.

To your last paragraph I do think the, being kind, devisiveness on this movie does put a bit more pressure on Solo

 

[Iowamomof4]

Oh, I agree. There's now a TON of pressure on Solo. It's not going to do even close to as well as Rogue One at the box office because of all the summer competition, even if it's a good film. I don't know how low it would have to be for Disney/Lucasfilm to consider it a "bomb", but I don't believe it will cross the $1 billion mark. I've heard estimates of $500-850 million worldwide box office, but obviously we haven't even seen a trailer yet (which is beginning to be disturbing) so that number could go up or down depending on the response to one question: When we see Alden Ehrenreich in the trailer, will we buy him as Han Solo? Just my thoughts.

 

[pmaurer74]

To your last paragraph I do think the, being kind, decisiveness on this movie does put a bit more pressure on Solo

I agree and I am worried about Solo from things I have heard.

 

[umichigan10]

Oh, I agree. There's now a TON of pressure on Solo. It's not going to do even close to as well as Rogue One at the box office because of all the summer competition, even if it's a good film. I don't know how low it would have to be for Disney/Lucasfilm to consider it a "bomb", but I don't believe it will cross the $1 billion mark. I've heard estimates of $500-850 million worldwide box office, but obviously we haven't even seen a trailer yet (which is beginning to be disturbing) so that number could go up or down depending on the response to one question: When we see Alden Ehrenreich in the trailer, will we buy him as Han Solo? Just my thoughts.

I’ve thought that as well. When I saw TLJ I saw a poster previewing it saying “May 2018” and I was like crap it’s in May? Where’re the trailers? Disturbing is an understatement

 

[skier_pete]

To your last paragraph I do think the, being kind, decisiveness on this movie does put a bit more pressure on Solo

Do you mean divisiveness? Decisiveness doesn't seem to be a problem to me.

 

[skier_pete]

Another point to Solo - while I have liked things Ron Howard has done in the past (Apollo 13, A Beautiful Mind) his recent output has not been interesting at all. I tend to look to the directors a bit, which is maybe misleading, but I think the reason TLJ was so divisive was Rian Johnson's work tends to not be easy. I loved Looper, but it was not a particularly public-rousing movie. :

Spoiler: SPOLIER ON LOOPER

Much like TLJ - our lead "hero" ends up sacrificing himself in the end

Brick was another interesting movie - but again not necessarily a crowd pleaser.

Abrams does OK work in my book but has never quite reached greatness, and so much like XII I do not have high hopes for IX to really wrap this all up nicely. (He's much better at creating a mystery than solving a mystery.)

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

“Last Jedi” Knocked to 3rd Place in 3rd Week, Makes Half as Much as Horror Thriller’s 4th Installment

http://www.showbiz411.com/2018/01/0...f-as-much-as-horror-thrillers-4th-installment

Opening line of this article that bummed me out: “Not a great day in the history of “Star Wars.””

 

[umichigan10]

“Last Jedi” Knocked to 3rd Place in 3rd Week, Makes Half as Much as Horror Thriller’s 4th Installment

http://www.showbiz411.com/2018/01/0...f-as-much-as-horror-thrillers-4th-installment

Opening line of this article that bummed me out: “Not a great day in the history of “Star Wars.””

I honestly have to wonder how much of this is also Star Wars fatigue. Not necessarily people are sick of it but TFA was the first movie in 10ish years so it was a reaalllyyy big deal. Now we’re on our third and couple that with some of the divisiveness in the fan base, and there’s your reason for the box office

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Do you mean divisiveness? Decisiveness doesn't seem to be a problem to me.

I did, and blame autocorrect (and my bad spelling for not catching it)

 

[SWRdtWD]

The conclusion I reach here is that the movie has flatlined at the box office. It needed to have a strong fourth weekend - better than the $42 mil TFA grossed - in order for the final tally to come close to down 30% from the end result of TFA.

That is not happening. It's going to be more like 40%.

That may not be a problem...for disney or Star Wars longterm..:but my opinion is that no one objective can really dismiss that it COULD be.

I don't think that rogue one can be the standard either...disney didn't appear to embrace that movie like they did Abrams...so if last jedi falls closer to that - a given at this point - i would assume they'd be looking at why?...if not publically.

My opinion...even if novice.

 

[Iowamomof4]

I just don't think it's at all fair to try to compare any future Star Wars film to TFA. Every other film absolutely cleared out of the way for TFA so that it was practically the only thing "good" to see for at least a couple weeks. The way the Christmas holiday also fell that year helped it out a ton, and it was the first Star Wars film in 10 years plus all the hype with Harrison, Carrie, and Mark being back ("Chewie, we're home." - people were literally screaming when they saw that in trailers! Never going to capture that moment again.) along with it being the first movie since Disney bought the franchise. Anyway, it was a confluence of events that will likely never be replicated again. No other Star Wars movie will be able to top that unless something very strange happens that none of us could possibly predict right now. I do think Rogue One and TLJ will be the best standards by which to compare future movies. Rogue One was in unfamiliar territory by being the first stand alone (though it obviously tied into A New Hope, so kind of stand-alone, kind of not) and TLJ saw much stiffer competition for week 2 (Jumanji, Pitch Perfect 3, The Greatest Showman). That's probably closer to what we'll see moving forward.

Solo will open just 3 weeks after Infinity War and only 1 week before Deadpool 2. That's a very tough place to be for any film. Why Disney gave up that December spot we'll never really know, but I think it was a dumb move. Time will tell, I guess.

 

[skier_pete]

Solo will open just 3 weeks after Infinity War and only 1 week before Deadpool 2. That's a very tough place to be for any film. Why Disney gave up that December spot we'll never really know, but I think it was a dumb move. Time will tell, I guess.

This is very true, with the success they've had at Christmas, why move to summer where there is always a battle for eyes and also for theaters. They DID move Episode IX back to Christmas - but that also means that now Fiscal 2019 has no Star Wars movie, while Fiscal 2018 has two, which also doesn't seem like the greatest move. (I am glad that - so far anyways - they are not going overboard with Star Wars movie like Marvel is with superhero movies. One Star Wars movie a year is already going to make Star Wars less special - but two a year is too much. I really wish they had the guts to just do one every other year - make it really an event.)

Even though I think Disney is satisfied with the box office, I do think the negative press has hurt the movie. People on the fence could definitely be staying home. (Though most people that I know wanted to see it went anyways.) Not sure if it hurt repeat viewings - I think the majority of people nowadays don't pay to see movies more than once at the theater - it's just too expensive and they are available at home so quickly.)