Sorry to bring up again, but does anyone feel like me? How do I get past this?

[LisaZoe]

Originally posted by Kendra17
I am so pleased that my candidate won. I think he is an honorable man who can see Right from Wrong. I am just thrilled that we have George W. Bush in office again for 4 years!

And I can understand your pleasure in that win even if I may not feel the same.

That said, considering the heightened emotions that have been displayed on these threads for the past months, it is NORMAL to also feel some sense of celebration that not only did Bush win, his supporters WON, but that Kerry lost and YOU lost.

Excuse me for being human. I think, again, with the comparisons of Bush and his administration to Nazis and Islamofascists, the continuous references to koolaid, etc., and other types of propaganda and even agitprop, gloating is a response that would fall within normal limits of behavior. By the way, it's only because of these examples that I feel this way.

I think, and of course the Left will disagree, that the Democratic campaign was so dirty, vitriolic, and extreme, that the feeling that you got what's coming to you is impossible NOT to have.

I would certainly not be surprised if one of the Bush supporters were to "resurrect" a thread with such comments and "gloat" there. I agree that the lashing out from both sides has been very heated so it's understandable that the winning party would feel in a position to flaunt the win.

LisaZoe, specifically, I didn't quote you, and your post is not showing up on this thread, but I am finding some of your posts to be quite hypocritical.

I see all of my posts and I don't see any hypocrisy in them. As I've said, if someone uses your name in a list (I haven't seen the original post of the list just when it has been quoted), I can understand responding to it. I also just wanted to be sure people understood that the suicide bomber comment was not the OP's so she should not be attacked for that comment. I chose not to add to the comments about that post as it seemed to be pretty well covered by others.

BTW - To be honest, at times it takes so long for me to write a post that other more succinct posts will often come between my post and the one to which I'm responding... as happened when I responded to the tissue post.

But, you didn't leave my comment alone. You felt the need to come in there and express yourself. Why would you suggest I leave a certain comment alone, but you don't follow that example yourself?

Now I have to admit I really don't know what you mean when you say I didn't leave your comment alone. All I said was that unless the OP had specifically vented against a poster, that it would be nice to leave her alone. Really, I was hoping to let people know that some of us on the Kerry side are still stinging from the loss and might like to console each other. It's a shame that this could not happen on the DIS. If Bush had lost, I would certainly not taunt the Bush supporters on a thread asking about how to deal with the loss.

I'm not taking anything personally. I find your comments incredulous! I laughed at that list that was made where I was listed under dmadman. You can see from our responses. . . we all laughed at it.

You asked if you should take the haiku thread personally and I wanted to let you know it was not personal. Again, any response you made to the list was up to you, obviously. Like you, I find it's better to laugh off that kind of thing than to take them seriously. Unfortunately, when one is feeling low like the OP seemed to be, it is harder to laugh off such posts.

However, after that, Laurajean makes some silly comment, and 10 or so of you come on here to disparage her character because of it! Unbelievable hypocrisy on your (in general) part! Geesh! You don't see it? Plus, you still okay the suicide bombing comment, but still find the get a tissue comment completely in poor taste!? You know what? Go. . .get a tissue! That comment is by far one of the most mild comments I've ever read on this board! How can you guys look in the mirror!?.

I did not OK the suicide bomber comment. Never in any post did I even come close to saying that. Just because I chose not to comment on a specific post does not mean I support the view expressed. There are many posts with views espoused by Bush supporters with which I do not agree but I don't feel the need to respond to all of them... who has that amount of time?

I agree, in a political thread the "get a tissue" comment would have been mild. If I had seen it in one of those, I'd have ignored it or laughed at it as well. However, I don't see this thread as political. While the reason the OP was feeling low may have been related to politics, the thread was asking for advice on how to get past the feeling of loss. Many posters on both sides offered very nice comments of support... as I'd expect on the DIS. It was unfortunate that some could not resist being less than supportive.

It would be much nicer if you were all much better losers than you are, then i wouldn't feel the way I feel. But, considering the posts I've read here over the past months, well, yeah, I guess I shamefully feel a bit of joy at the distress you feel. Had the Democratic party been a little less hateful during the campaign, a little less fringe and extreme, toned down the rhetoric just a bit, well, I wouldn't feel this way at all.

Really, I am not saying you have no reason to gloat or to remind us of the loss. I just had hoped that there would be a bit more compassion for posters that seem especially upset by the loss. Also, it seemed as though the OP was being the scape goat for things others have said against Bush or his supporters.

 

[denisenh]

Originally posted by tiggersmom2
It is because of sore losers like you.

Thanks.

 

[wdwoldtimer]

Originally posted by Wish I lived in Fl
empathy is what is missing from sociopaths. So someone who could momentarily empathise is not the one going bonkers.

Ok so let me get this straight...a person who can't empathize with a homicidal sociopath is himself a sociopath who is going bonkers?

Regardless of past history between the posters on this thread, I think most of this so-called nose rubbing has been a reaction to someone comparing themselves and their feelings to a suicide bomber. The poster who said that didn't say to the OP..."Hey I'm with you, I feel desperate and discouraged over this outcome." or "I'm really feeling hopeless as well and it's like I can't do anything about it!". Those are understandable emotions. I don't think saying that would have stirred so much outrage.

But that is not how it was said. Why compare your feelings with a suicide bomber?? I can think of dozens of discouraged, helpless and powerless people throughout history which could compare to. But she specifically chose suicide bombers. Was it just hyperbole? At first that's what I thought and joked about blowing oneself up alone in a field. But then the person who posted that and others continued to pursue the suicide bomber comparison, going as far as trying to explain how a suicide bomber felt and justifying their feelings. There was even an outrageous comparison between suicide bombers and the American Minuteman. It even continues with the above quote. So now we are sociopaths because we feel it is inappropriate and sickening to empathize with suicide bombers, just because Kerry lost a close election?!?

Do suicide bombers feel desperate and powerless? Perhaps. Is it normal to compare your feelings over a lost election to such murderers? I don't think so. I make the analogy again. Among other things, Adolf Hitler was very proud of his race...so proud that he wanted to exterminate an entire race and take over the world. But is it appropriate for me to say, "I'm so proud of my race, I can really understand how Hitler felt."
Hitler was an excellent motivator. So should I be able to say, "It felt great to get all my employees motivated about the project, now I can understand how Hitler felt looking at his followers". Someone else mentioned Tim McVeigh. Is it appropriate for me to say, "I really feel frustrated over the my Second Amendment Rights being infringed, now I know how Tim McVeigh felt". Such comparisons are outrageous and if anyone ever made them here everyone would jump all over it.

Yes, suicide bombers may feel desperation but they KILL INNOCENT MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN and themselves as a result. That goes way beyond feeling desperate. And any comparison to them, or newfound empathy towards murderers after your candidate lost an election goes way beyond normal desperation.

 

[tiggersmom2]

Originally posted by denisenh
Thanks.

You are most certainly welcome

 

[denisenh]

Originally posted by wdwoldtimer
Ok so let me get this straight...a person who can't empathize with a homicidal sociopath is himself a sociopath who is going bonkers?

Regardless of past history between the posters on this thread, I think most of this so-called nose rubbing has been a reaction to someone comparing themselves and their feelings to a suicide bomber. The poster who said that didn't say to the OP..."Hey I'm with you, I feel desperate and discouraged over this outcome." or "I'm really feeling hopeless as well and it's like I can't do anything about it!". Those are understandable emotions. I don't think saying that would have stirred so much outrage.

But that is not how it was said. Why compare your feelings with a suicide bomber?? I can think of dozens of discouraged, helpless and powerless people throughout history which could compare to. But she specifically chose suicide bombers. Was it just hyperbole? At first that's what I thought and joked about blowing oneself up alone in a field. But then the person who posted that and others continued to pursue the suicide bomber comparison, going as far as trying to explain how a suicide bomber felt and justifying their feelings. There was even an outrageous comparison between suicide bombers and the American Minuteman. It even continues with the above quote. So now we are sociopaths because we feel it is inappropriate and sickening to empathize with suicide bombers because Kerry lost a close election?!?

Do suicide bombers feel desperate and powerless? Perhaps. Is it normal to compare your feelings over a lost election to such murderers? I don't think so. I make the analogy again. Among other things, Adolf Hitler was very proud of his race...so proud that he wanted to exterminate an entire race and take over the world. But is it appropriate for me to say, "I'm so proud of my race, I can really understand how Hitler felt."
Hitler was an excellent motivator. So should I be able to say, "It felt great to get all my employees motivated about the project, now I can understand how Hitler felt looking at his followers". Someone else mentioned Tim McVeigh. Is it appropriate for me to say, "I really feel frustrated over the my Second Amendment Rights being infringed, now I know how Tim McVeigh felt". Such comparisons are outrageous and if anyone ever made them here everyone would jump all over it.

Yes, suicide bombers may feel desperation but they KILL INNOCENT MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN and themselves as a result. That goes way beyond feeling desperate. And any comparison to them, or newfound empathy towards murderers after your candidate lost an election goes way beyond normal desperation.

The thing is I am sure that the person who posted that was referring to the feeling of despair, not that she/he wanted to be a suicide bomber.

But if it floats your boat to paint the worst senario possible join the club. There are several of you in that one.

 

[wdwoldtimer]

Then I suggest you go back and read what followed after that original post. It didn't stop there. It wasn't just a single slip of the keyboard or a bad example to express the degree of despair.

 

[Kendra17]

Originally posted by denisenh
The thing is I am sure that the person who posted that was referring to the feeling of despair, not that she/he wanted to be a suicide bomber.

But if it floats your boat to paint the worst senario possible join the club. There are several of you in that one.

You know, it's funny how a tissue comment could get twisted into something ugly, too. . .don't you agree?

I'm sure the poster didn't mean she hoped to blow people up. But, the example she used is just so extreme. You guys can't see this. This is the flaw of the Democratic Party, in my opinion. You guys just will not admit that the language too many of you use is way too extreme. Yet, you cry victim if someone says "get a tissue".

 

[wdwoldtimer]

Originally posted by Kendra17
I'm sure the poster didn't mean she hoped to blow people up. But, the example she used is just so extreme.

You're right, Kendra, neither did I. If I thought she was really considering blowing people up, I would have called the FBI. But not only was it extreme, afterwards it seemed some were actually validating what suicide bombers do. When you hear stuff like, (paraphrase) "What would you do if your family was wiped out and your government wasn't representing you and you felt lost and hopeless??" it starts to sound like a defense of suicide bombers.

 

[LisaZoe]

Originally posted by Kendra17
You guys just will not admit that the language too many of you use is way too extreme.

I won't dispute that some Democrats use extreme language. Will you admit it is just as likely to occur on the Republican side as well? There are extremes at both ends of the political spectrum.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by denisenh
The thing is I am sure that the person who posted that was referring to the feeling of despair, not that she/he wanted to be a suicide bomber.

But if it floats your boat to paint the worst scenario possible join the club. There are several of you in that one.

You're free to make other comparisons if you like, but a person with an intact thought process wouldn't even comprehend using that comparison unless they somehow felt like there was just a little justification in the act of suicide bombing.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by LisaZoe
I won't dispute that some Democrats use extreme language. Will you admit it is just as likely to occur on the Republican side as well? There are extremes at both ends of the political spectrum.

Ok. Find one website that is in direct competition with www.democraticunderground.com for the lowest of low human scum and I'll be the first to denounce it.

 

[denisenh]

Originally posted by Kendra17
You know, it's funny how a tissue comment could get twisted into something ugly, too. . .don't you agree?

I'm sure the poster didn't mean she hoped to blow people up. But, the example she used is just so extreme. You guys can't see this. This is the flaw of the Democratic Party, in my opinion. You guys just will not admit that the language too many of you use is way too extreme. Yet, you cry victim if someone says "get a tissue".

I think the poster of that remark was worded poorly, and not thought out (obviously) and you and others just want to point and throw rocks and make the absolute worst of it that you can.

Where is this suicide bombers post? I read it, understood it and left it.

 

[denisenh]

Originally posted by Elwood Blues
Ok. Find one website that is in direct competition with www.democraticunderground.com for the lowest of low human scum and I'll be the first to denounce it.

What is wrong with the web site you linked? It looks like a message board place.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by denisenh
What is wrong with the web site you linked? It looks like a message board place.

I was responding to LisaZoe's message where she stated that there were extremes at both ends of the political spectrum.

I was just asking for something on the other end that was just as bad. Unless you don't think the site I linked is bad.

 

[Kendra17]

Originally posted by LisaZoe
I won't dispute that some Democrats use extreme language. Will you admit it is just as likely to occur on the Republican side as well? There are extremes at both ends of the political spectrum.

I would if I could. But, i really honestly cannot. I have never heard any republicans speak the way that the Democrats do. Any screams like Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean? Absolutely not. Any comparisons to Hitler, Goerring, OBL, and Saddam? I haven't heard any.

You are crying foul over the tissue comment, yet give the suicide bomber comment a pass. It's sheer hypocrisy, I believe.

Any photos equivalent to Bush with a Hitler mustache? I've seen this debated on this board where some posters think the photo with Kerry and Dukakis on the motorcycle is equivalent to these hitler-type photos. I believe they are not comparable.

No, the Democrats have just become too extreme. it's absolutely fine if you disagree. Really. It doesn't matter. But, I'm telling you that's why they lost this election. That's why the republicans gained seats in the House and Senate. Your message gets lost in the angry rhetoric.

It's just my opinion (which I share with many others). Disregard it if you wish. . .it's of no matter. We'll win again in 4 years if the next campaign is anything like this one.

 

[denisenh]

Originally posted by Elwood Blues
I was responding to LisaZoe's message where she stated that there were extremes at both ends of the political spectrum.

I was just asking for something on the other end that was just as bad. Unless you don't think the site I linked is bad.

I don't see anything noticeably "bad" so I am trying to find out what it is that you are saying is bad.

 

[tiggersmom2]

Originally posted by denisenh
I don't see anything noticeably "bad" so I am trying to find out what it is that you are saying is bad.

When the most admirable President (Ronald Regan) of our time passed away - this website CELEBRATED his death! This website is pond scum.

 

[bsnyder]

Originally posted by Kendra17
I would if I could. But, i really honestly cannot. I have never heard any republicans speak the way that the Democrats do. Any screams like Al Gore, Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean? Absolutely not. Any comparisons to Hitler, Goerring, OBL, and Saddam? I haven't heard any.

You are crying foul over the tissue comment, yet give the suicide bomber comment a pass. It's sheer hypocrisy, I believe.

Any photos equivalent to Bush with a Hitler mustache? I've seen this debated on this board where some posters think the photo with Kerry and Dukakis on the motorcycle is equivalent to these hitler-type photos. I believe they are not comparable.

No, the Democrats have just become too extreme. it's absolutely fine if you disagree. Really. It doesn't matter. But, I'm telling you that's why they lost this election. That's why the republicans gained seats in the House and Senate. Your message gets lost in the angry rhetoric.

It's just my opinion (which I share with many others). Disregard it if you wish. . .it's of no matter. We'll win again in 4 years if the next campaign is anything like this one.

I agree Kendra. So does Jeff Jacoby.

Big loss for the Bush haters
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | November 4, 2004

HATRED LOST.

For four years, Americans watched and listened as President Bush was demonized with a savagery unprecedented in modern American politics. For four years they saw him likened to Hitler and Goebbels, heard his supporters called brownshirts and racists, his administration dubbed "the 43d Reich." For four years they took it all in: "Bush" spelled with a swastika instead of an `s,' the depictions of the president as a drooling moron or a homicidal liar, the poisonous insults aimed at anyone who might consider voting for him. And then on Tuesday they turned out to vote and handed the haters a crushing repudiation.

Bush was reelected with the highest vote total in American history. He is the first president since 1988 to win a majority of the popular vote. He increased his 2000 tally by 8 million votes and saw his party not only keep its majorities in the House and Senate but enlarge them. And he did it all in the face of an orgy of hatred.

The smears and rancor were bottomless and venomous. Michael Moore accused Bush of being in cahoots with Osama bin Laden. George Soros said the president's policies reminded him of the Nazis. Cameron Diaz warned that if Bush was reelected, rape would become legal. Randi Rhodes told her radio audience that Bush, like Fredo in "The Godfather," should be taken out and shot. Whoopi Goldberg headlined a New York fund-raiser in which Bush was called a "thug" and a "killer." Howard Dean speculated publicly about the "interesting theory" that Bush knew what was going to happen on Sept. 11 but kept silent.

The novelist Nicholson Baker went so far as to publish a novel that revolves around Bush's possible assassination.

John Kerry never sank to that level of slime, but he never repudiated it, either. Instead of condemning the foul things said about Bush at that New York fund-raiser, for example, Kerry told the audience that "every performer tonight . . . conveyed to you the heart and soul of our country."

If Kerry had urged his supporters to speak about Bush with the same courtesy they would want Bush's supporters to speak about him, voters would have been impressed. If he had made it clear that he is disgusted when Bush is compared to Hitler or Mussolini and ashamed that such comparisons could be made by people backing him, he would have won the public's admiration. If he had insisted that Michael Moore leave the Democratic convention instead of being given a place of honor next to Jimmy Carter, he would have been rewarded with a surge in the polls. Instead he said nothing -- and the voters noticed.

Bush-bashers reveled in their animosity -- many openly and proudly embraced the word "hatred" -- but I wondered all along whether they weren't driving away far more voters than they were attracting. "Their unabashed loathing may energize and excite them, but they are doing their candidate and their country no favors," I wrote in this space in July. "For most Americans, hatred is a political turn-off." Now that the object of their malevolence has won more votes than any previous president, will they consider giving up the politics of hatred in favor of something healthier and more constructive?

And now that the electorate has once again chosen to keep control of the White House and both houses of Congress in Republican hands, will the Democratic Party take a long hard look in the mirror and try to understand why it has fallen into disfavor?

I told several colleagues on Tuesday that I knew what I was going to write if Kerry won the election. I would have said that the refusal of so many liberals and Democrats to accept Bush as a legitimate president had badly infected American politics since 2000, and that it would be disastrous if conservatives and Republicans allowed themselves to become equally envenomed. I planned to write that while I'd had many tough things to say about Kerry over the course of this campaign -- and while I wasn't backing away from any of them -- the voters had now spoken and their judgment had to be respected. When he took the oath of office, Kerry would become my president, too.

Well, Kerry didn't win, so this is a different column. But 55 million people voted for him, and that is no small thing. However much I may disagree with the choice they made, I don't regard those voters as fools or knaves or idiots. I regard them as fellow Americans. That is how we should all regard each other when an election season comes to a close. In his concession speech yesterday, Kerry said that when he telephoned Bush to congratulate him, they spoke of "the desperate need for unity, for finding the common ground, coming together. Today I hope that we can begin the healing."

It was a furious contest for power, but the election is over, and the fury should end. We are all Republicans, we are all Democrats. And none of us should be seduced by the haters.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by TimeforMe
Yes, it was YOUR mistake. So now then, what was your excuse for not being able to empathize with the OP?????

Ya know, you guys are just truly pathetic and juvenile and I'm embarrassed for you. An extremely decent person came here looking for some comfort and you turn it into an opportunity to condemn democrats. Why?

To those who offered genuine advice and consolation, I thank you for being decent human beings. To the others.....what goes around comes around. I hope this thread gets closed.

Babar--I'm sorry this turned so nasty. You know where you can go.

DawnCt--you indeed have managed to remove all doubt

I never said I didn't empathize with the OP. It was the suicide bomber post that got me distracted. But, since you asked, I frankly can't empathize because it's she is expressing feelings I frankly have never felt, nor do not understand. The President of the United States has virtually ZERO impact on my daily life. Who is President is really not all that important to me to spend emotion grieving over for 4-8 years. Like I said, I managed to live through 4 years of Carter and 8 years of Clinton without noticing any major impact on my day to day life, other than the enterainment value they provided. So, honestly I can't empathize, as I've never felt such emotion nor invested such in a President. Bush included. Maybe Reagan.

 

[dmadman43]

Originally posted by tiggersmom2
When the most admirable President (Ronald Regan) of our time passed away - this website CELEBRATED his death! This website is pond scum.

Good point