Sick of the upper class bashing

[Banshee]

Not if your parents make to much money but refuse to give you any towards education. Then your S.O.L.

Kristine

That is true! My DH was going to college and halfway through his first year his parents decided not to pay. They actually went for financial aid when the man looked at their W-2s he choked and told them "No way will qualify anyone making 6 figures will not qualify" The man was shocked they even applied. My DH said it was one of the most humilating moments of his life.

 

[connorlevismom]

That is true! My DH was going to college and halfway through his first year his parents decided not to pay. They actually went for financial aid when the man looked at their W-2s he choked and told them "No way will qualify anyone making 6 figures will not qualify" The man was shocked they even applied. My DH said it was one of the most humilating moments of his life.

Yeah it really sucks. It is a total slap in the face to have someone tell you that you get no help because of what your parents make. Well, that is my PARENTS and just because they make money, does not mean that they dish it out to their kids. So if your trying to better yourself but you can't because of this situation, tough tootie.

 

[shirleyb]

Not if your parents make to much money but refuse to give you any towards education. Then your S.O.L.

Kristine

How about joining the military and using the GI benefits?

 

[connorlevismom]

How about joining the military and using the GI benefits?

Not to be rude but are you kidding? So, all those "unfortunate" people (lots of whom abuse this gift they have been given) should just get the money but I should join the military? How about THEY join the military too instead of just getting the hand out?

 

[Laura]

Well I for one actually find very little value in Tink&SquirtsMom's post. Since when is it all about comparisons? If you want to play that game, them there is only one person that really is in the worst shape and every single person better off than that one lowest example is better off.

I have the same kind of reaction to posts like "if that's all you have to complain about, consider yourself lucky." The fact that somebody is worse off means nothing to the person who is having a problem, and by the same token, there are people worse off financially int he world means nothing to the discussion of what we have to support in the this country.

I think you missed the point of her post. It wasn't about comparisons, or wondering who's worse off. It's just that there are people who work hard and make lots of money and think they deserve the great things they can buy because they're so awesome and work hard--so they think they're better, instead of realizing how lucky they are to have their opportunities. Lots of people work hard and can never get ahead, don't they deserve all the nice things too?

 

[cardaway]

How about joining the military and using the GI benefits?

After seeing what somebody like Bush can do with our military, I imagine the number who would accept that as a valid option has went way down.

 

[cardaway]

Not everybody subscribes to the idea that people are successful only because they were blessed by God or got lucky. People like myself believe that people get where they do based on the amount of work they are willing to put in and that we make their own luck.

 

[connorlevismom]

I think you missed the point of her post. It wasn't about comparisons, or wondering who's worse off. It's just that there are people who work hard and make lots of money and think they deserve the great things they can buy because they're so awesome and work hard--so they think they're better, instead of realizing how lucky they are to have their opportunities. Lots of people work hard and can never get ahead, don't they deserve all the nice things too?

I totally get what your saying here but I do have an arguement to make. I, for one, consider myself blessed to have the life I have and say it almost on a daily basis. I also think that we worked really hard and we actually do deserve what we have. I don't think there is anything wrong with being proud of what you worked hard to have. Not shoving it in others faces, but you can feel proud. And should you not have those things because someone else cannot afford them?

Kristine

 

[ducklite]

After seeing what somebody like Bush can do with our military, I imagine the number who would accept that as a valid option has went way down.

I couldn't agree more. I have a friend who is in the National Guard. he joined the guard to protect his country and assist in times of emergency. While he knew there was a remote chance he might have to serve oversees at some point, he figured it would be as a result of either WW III or for humanitarian purposes after a natural disaster. He never expected to be fighting W's follie in the sandbox with no clear objective other than to not get his head blown off. He's got one more year to hit his 20 and he's O-U-T.

Anne

 

[Chloe'sMom]

Not everybody subscribes to the idea that people are successful only because they were blessed by God or got lucky. People like myself believe that people get where they do based on the amount of work they are willing to put in and that we make their own luck.

Love ya - but that's crap. No one makes their own luck. Now yes there is weighing options, taking advantage of oppurtunities. But a drunk driver could hit you tomorrow - and there is nothing you could do about it. Cancer could attack your entire body - and there is nothing you could do about it. Your employer may just lock the doors on you tomorrow - and there is nothing you can do about it.

We are defined by our choices - but life deals the cards we play with.

~Amanda

 

[ducklite]

Not everybody subscribes to the idea that people are successful only because they were blessed by God or got lucky. People like myself believe that people get where they do based on the amount of work they are willing to put in and that we make their own luck.

I think it's a little of both. I worked very hard for what I have in life, but I had a couple of bits of luck along the way.

The biggest one was when I was hitting financial rock bottom, a once a month p/t job landed in my lap on a fluke. The shifts ranged from six hours to twelve hours, but it paid as much on some shifts as I would make in a week at my f/t job, and had a lot of room for advancement if you worked hard and networked like crazy. It ultimately led me to a good full time job a few years later. But the hours were terrible and you had to be very fast on your feet and deal with a lot of nonsense.

I'm very grateful for what I have in life. I think that having come from having nothing, I don't take having nice things for granted. I still clip coupons, shop sales (found two long sleeved shirts I can wear to work this winter at the GAP outlet last week for $3 each ), and save like crazy because I always worry that something unexpected might happen, and I want to be as prepared as I can. DH and I both have second sources of income that we save towards retirement, because that's the big unknown for all of us right now.

 

[Laura]

How about joining the military and using the GI benefits?

There are lots of reasons why a person could not join the military, whether it's a medical reason (my DH is a type 1 diabetic, for example) or something else.

I totally get what your saying here but I do have an arguement to make. I, for one, consider myself blessed to have the life I have and say it almost on a daily basis. I also think that we worked really hard and we actually do deserve what we have. I don't think there is anything wrong with being proud of what you worked hard to have. Not shoving it in others faces, but you can feel proud. And should you not have those things because someone else cannot afford them?

Kristine

I didn't say all the "haves" think they just deserve what they have. I think believing you both deserve it and are blessed is normal. But you aren't the kind of person Tink was describing.

 

[connorlevismom]

I didn't say all the "haves" think they just deserve what they have. I think believing you both deserve it and are blessed is normal. But you aren't the kind of person Tink was describing.

Understood.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

Is there a reason that he can't work a second job? WOrking p/t at UPS 15 hours a week gives you full time benefits. I'm not saying it's something everyone can do--but it seems that a lot of people saying they can't aren't really looking at every option. I am sure that some people fall through the cracks. But my guess is that many of them think that life should be one job, weekends set aside for family, etc.

BTW--I was a single mom as well, and for years I had no insurance for me but was able to scrape together what was $25 (15-20 years ago) to buy into the state program for DS. For my health care I went to a crappy community clinic in a crappy part of town that charged sliding scale fees. They also had a pharmacy with sliding scale costs on prescriptions.

Yes there is a reason he cannot work a second job. He's on call all the time for his current job. I don't think anyplace would like it if you were at work, got a call and had to leave immediately to go to your other job.
He does have benefits, but they're crappy. Especially when it comes to her health care. When he got the job and the insurance, she was already sick. So the company won't pay for anything for her. They do go to a crappy clinic as well.
While he's not on call on weekends, I believe he deserves to have a life. Plus, the wife, who is very sick (weighs about 100 lbs and cannot gain at all and suffers multiple seizures per day), needs some sort of break away from the kids (youngest just turned 4) just to rest and have a life of her own on occassion. The doctors have told her that if she takes really, really good care, she might see her oldest turn 18.

I know it's wikipedia but here is how it is defined there

Capitalist Class - Incomes over $500,000.00 and higher. Subclass of the Super Rich which make $350 million a year like celebrities, high power politicians etc and The Rich which have a net worth of over a million. In 2005 roughly 1% of Americans fell into this category.

Upper Middle Class - Incomes from the very high 5 figures to over $100,000 yr. Roughly 15% fell here.

Lower Middle Class - Incomes between $35,000 to $75,000.00 per year. Roughly 32% fell here.

Working Class - Incomes between $16,000 to $30,000.00 per year. Roughly 32% fell here as well.

Working Poor or Underclass - Incomes less than $16,000.00 per year and reliant on government aid. Roughly 20% fell here.

Hmm. I just barely qualify for working class. But, that does not take into account that I don't get paid for holidays the company takes off. Nor does it take into account that in 2 months, I may not have a job.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Due to budget cuts they aren't there in large cities, either.



The point is that through loans and work, there is NO REASON that almost everyone who really wants to can complete college. I had to drop out, I couldn't afford to attend. But, I could have gone back a couple years later when my financial situation was a bit better, I chose not to. The point is that I could ahve. I have a hard time believing that anyone who is a recipient of a Pell grant couldn't find an alternate way to finance their college education. It might not be at the college of their choice, but we can't all have everything we want, can we? It might not get them into Harvard medcal school, but there are plenty of other medical schools in the US that would be glad to look at an applicant from a small college with great grades.

I had loans, I worked, my mom gave me some money, I didn't qualify for any scholarships (I tried), I graduated from a public university, and yes I had to use some Pell Grants to do it. Well sue me. I am sure I have given back more than I took at this point.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

The program I bought into was major medical. He never used it. So I gave and didn't take. His well-child health care was provided by the self-funded community health center, which I paid on a sliding scale for--and I was at or near the top of the scale. I was one of those "working poor" who did fall through the cracks had I sought assistance. i would ahve made a few dollars a week too much.

I've said before that I have no problem with CHIP's programs--they didn't include well child care when my son was young. Nor do I have a problem with Head Start, free school lunch/milk for truly needy children (if the parents have enough for a WDW vacation then the kid shouldn't qualify--except if they are a foster child, etc.), subsidized daycare for parents trying to get back on their feet, the list goes on. But IMHO until you have exhausted every possibility for yourself and your family, you shouldn't rely on the government. And government programs need to be revamped to be a hand up, not a hand out.

Subsidized day care in some areas have an extremely long wait list. It is federally funded to each state. How much a state gets each year is determined by how many were served, how many were waiting the previous year and the cost of the daycare service. But, it is also determined by other factors too. Most of the time, it actually comes up short of what is really needed. I know the ins and outs of subsidized say care because I worked for the state for 5 years in the department that did subsidized day care.
And you can't get on the list until after you are working and already paying out $100-200 per week. It can take months to finally get thru the waiting list. This discourages people to work.

 

[Camicar]

It's all relative.

I live in a subdivision which is a mix of middle class homes at different price points plus one or two homes every block which were specifically designated as 'helper' homes with lower prices and financial help for those qualified. Our house is the largest on the block, but that's not by much. And frankly, due to the way it's sited on the plot, it looks much smaller on the outside than it is on the inside. So a neighbor who has not been in our house would have to reallllly study it for a while to realize that it's bigger than theirs.

So color me surprised a few years ago to overhear the neighbor in the 'helper' house (who has never been in ours) make a snide comment about us as being the "rich" ones with the "biggggg house." It took me a moment to realize he was talking about us, it really did.

Especially bec their yard is filled with expensive kid toys, he and the wife get brand new expensive SUVs every year and they have an ATV and a motorcyle. Meanwhile, dh and I are driving respectively a 2 year old Vibe and a 7 year old Prizm neither of which are any where near as expensive as their gas guzzlers. Turned out he decided we were rich because our garage is a 3 car and his is a 2 car. The riot is that HE is the one with 4 vehicles and we only own two, but somehow that third bay meant we had to be 'rich'.

So, it's all relative and based quite often on our own wishes. This neighbor of mine is whining about us being rich because he covets our garage space. (Which cracks me up bec that third bay is filled with the evidence of my dh's packrattiness -- he has never met a box he didn't want to keep JUST IN CASE! )

The neighbor is not appreciative of the fact that the only reason he has his house at all is due to muncipal funding, nor does he appreciate that we are more than 10 years older, have master's degrees (which in my case I paid for completely on my own with no aid whatsoever), and scrimp and save. I felt like telling him that if they stopped buying brand new SUV gas guzzlers, ATVs, motorcyles and expensive toys, they might be able to trade up to a larger house in a few years too by oh I don't know, doing what we did - SAVING for it? But that little reality check would just be me being a snob, right?

Because it's not like I paid my own way thru college (sometimes going hungry), paid my way thru grad school, and dh and I lived in some truly crappy places because that was all we could afford. The place where there was only 60 seconds of hot water per hour and a smelly filthy dirty uncleanable kitchen carpet is my personal favorite place where us rich folks lived. It's not like we didn't have to start over with $256 to our names in our early 30s due to the economic recession on the east coast when we lost both of our jobs and lost everything we put into our first home. It's not like we only go on a real vacation only every other year or buy inexpensive but reliable cars with good gas mileage. It's not like the last two cars we bought we had to buy unexpectedly because both were totalled by idiot other drivers who were 100% at fault. It's not that I had to leave my career (possible only bec of that master's degree I paid for myself) to take a boring job bec it allows time flexibility to deal with my dd's illness. Nope, we're just 'rich' bec we have what he wants.

It's all relative.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

No, I think there's plenty of people in your "middle ground" who should do more to help themselves. Get a second job, possibly move to an area with a better job market (I know if they have a house in an economically depressed area that's not always feasiable), have one parent work days while the other works nights, find another single mom and share child care, there are a lot of things people can do for themselves if they sit down and think about it.

I think that there are also plenty of people collecting various social services who shouldn't be. If you've got enough money to pay for a trip to WDW, you shouldn't be collecting food stamps, WIC, etc.

Anne

If you can't manage to save up any money, how on earth can you move? You have to may a down payment on anyplace that you go. Unless you move in with friends or relatives.

 

[CheshireVal]

Originally Posted by ducklite


The point is that through loans and work, there is NO REASON that almost everyone who really wants to can complete college. I had to drop out, I couldn't afford to attend. But, I could have gone back a couple years later when my financial situation was a bit better, I chose not to. The point is that I could ahve.

So, you couldn't afford college and dropped out. But there's no reason that people shouldn't be able to afford college?

I don't think making everyone wait until they're in their 30s and can "afford it" is realistic, practical, or even wise.

 

[Crankyshank]

So, you couldn't afford college and dropped out. But there's no reason that people shouldn't be able to afford college?

I don't think making everyone wait until they're in their 30s and can "afford it" is realistic, practical, or even wise.

Let me tell you, I'm 32 and working towards my bachelors and then masters. It sucks. My biggest regret was screwing up when I was 17 and thought I knew everything. If I hadn't, I wouldn't be working full time while taking 4 classes. It's one thing to do when you're 20. It's another thing entirely when you're 30 with a house and bills and such.