Sick of the upper class bashing

[hydster]

Not to be a downer, but this thread has gone completely OT and the subject that it is has turned into is nothing that I wanted it to turn into. Please use the other theads on this very subject to have this discussion.

Kristine

Some of these posts lead EXACTLY where you started this thread! If you can't function and thrive in basic society you can't have a McMansion to have people make comments about!

 

[ducklite]

But see this is where I disagree. If a kid wants to be a Doctor, Lawyer, Scientist - they have to go to the best schools. While I agree they should get student loans and still work - it truly may not be possible. I don't want to hold a kid back and say - No sir you cannot go to medical school and find the cure for cancer because your parents were middle class.

If we get rid of things like grants and such - then only rich people's children will get to go to the good schools and then there really will be a class war. Besides I don't want the Paris Hilton types becoming the only Dr's available.

~Amanda

Like I said--then let them look for colleges and universities with private grants available. We have more than enough lawyers , but if they want to be a teacher or doctor, many states have programs which will pick up the tab for education provided the student is willing to teach or practice medicine in that state wherever the state sends for a set amount of time after graduation. My brother was offered a full, four year scholarship (including books and room/board) to a private university by the State of NY if he agreed to teach for six years in whatever district they chose to send him to after he graduated. A friend just recently got her nursing degree through a similar program in a mid-west state.

Yes, the public is paying for those educations, but it is a quid pro quo--we are receiving a benefit that we can't buy for any amount of money these days.

 

[Tink&SquirtsMom]

Because in reality - no one does it on their own.

I totally agree with this Chloe's Mom. I'm soo sick of this "I work hard, so I DESERVE this" mentality. The fact is that however hard you are working, you did NOT do it on your own, and there is someone out there working twice as hard, who has far less, and deserves it just as much (if not more than) you do.

Just by virtue of being born in America you are one of the luckiest people alive. That alone gave you a huge leg up. You probably attended public school (if you didn't I'm guessing you weren't working at 5yo to pay for that kindergarten education that allowed you to be able to later go on to college). You had people in your life that instilled a sense of self confidence and determination or if not, people who challenged you to prove them wrong. You were probably fed at least one meal day, likely much more. You had opportunity that was created by people who came before you. Etc, etc, etc.

My IL's are upperclass. I'm talking Executive Vice President of a multinational corporation, private plane, Maserati AND Ferrari in the driveway kind of upperclass. My FIL actually believes he did this on his own, and that he got to where he is because he deserves it more than anyone else. Now my FIL works very hard (though I wouldn't say harder than most people with corporate jobs in America). He worked his way up from a Real Estate agent to where he is now. But he began his Real Estate career in Silicon Valley just before Apple took off in the 80's and helped create the housing market boom there. He had a mom who was a top agent there for years and gave him a leg up in the business. You can't tell me he would have been in the same position if he had become an agent in suburban Kansas, or if he had entered the market in time of a slump rather than a boom, or spent those first years digging out his own leads and building his own client base. It had to do with where he was, when he entered the field, the fact that he was surrounded by supportive people who taught him well, etc. Yes, he had to take those opportunities and make something of it, but he certainly did not create those opportunities and he wasn't self taught on how to meet those opportunities.

It just blows my mind that he can look at what a blessed life he leads and say "I deserve this." I deserve this more than this amazing person of there, and more than that hardworking person over there (and by extension more than any of you reading this thread who doesn't have tens of millions in the bank). You should hear his opinion on my sons birth father, an amazing hardworking, loving man who had to give up his child because he simply could not care for him after his wife died leaving him to care for 5 children alone in rural Ethiopia. The man works more in one day than I do in one week and can barely put food on the table, he, without our support, could not send the 4 children he still has home with him to school, he lives in a region where there is no work, the main food is a tree that takes 40 years to grow and provides food for 1 family for 2 months, where there is 1 dr. per 10,000 people and only 2% of kids recieve an education and where at 35 he is still learning to read. That so easily could have been any one of us, if not for where we were born, or the people who fought for all the things and opportunity we have who came before us.

No one here has done it on there own and that should be recognized and paid forward. I don't expect people to apologize for what they have, or to not be proud of it. I would just like it if they realized they are BLESSED to have it... not deserving of it, not entitled to it, but BLESSED. Not everyone who has less, does less, or deserves it less, and if you realize that than I can't see how you can say everything you have is because of something you did.

 

[Laura]

Great post, Tink&SquirtsMom.

 

[Banshee]

Well, maybe I am being a little oversensitive today or something. I did just have lunch and I feel much better.

Anyway, what I think I am trying to say is that people refer to people homes as McMansions and they drive such and such car.....it is all said with such distaste and I cannot understand it.

Any political thread you will surely see it. The "rich" people and their blah blah blah. As if just because people have money, they are the devil or something. Because don't you know that all "rich" people are selfish corporate hogs? That is just the vibe I get.

Maybe there is poverty trashing as well but I certainly don't see people referring to them with such distaste or at least calling their cars and homes little names. Maybe I am wrong?

Kristine

I haven't read the whole thread. But the whole Mcmansion thing esp. here in Jersey because there is a million of them, they are so cookie cutter. One developement here by our farm is these huge 800,000 dollar homes and they only have 2 models!! They all look alike so yes they are Mcmansions just like McDonalds all look alike! My father got harrased once a long time ago because he bought a Rolls Royce so I see what you are saying. The person who harrased my dad if he only knew how hard my dad worked his whole life and literally came from total poverty. But I think we all need to step back and think before we speak. But for me the McMansion thing is not against the person its because they pretty much look all alike.

 

[Galahad]

Like I said--then let them look for colleges and universities with private grants available. We have more than enough lawyers , but if they want to be a teacher or doctor, many states have programs which will pick up the tab for education provided the student is willing to teach or practice medicine in that state wherever the state sends for a set amount of time after graduation. My brother was offered a full, four year scholarship (including books and room/board) to a private university by the State of NY if he agreed to teach for six years in whatever district they chose to send him to after he graduated. A friend just recently got her nursing degree through a similar program in a mid-west state.

Yes, the public is paying for those educations, but it is a quid pro quo--we are receiving a benefit that we can't buy for any amount of money these days.

The public pays for all physician training. Residency programs are almost completely funded by Medicare. They have been since the 70's. As Amanda said, nobody does anything "alone". Nothing helps us all more than investing in education. It pays us all back. It's why public education needs to be fixed rather than scrapped. Those who "did it on there own" will live in a pretty miserable world if the rest are left to poor education.

 

[Banshee]

Whoa I am confused now. I read the first page then made a comment I am on the last page and reading and it seems to be a totally different subject.

 

[Christine]

Whoa I am confused now. I read the first page then made a comment I am on the last page and reading and it seems to be a totally different subject.

These 20+ page threads have a tendancy to do that.

 

[ducklite]

The public pays for all physician training. Residency programs are almost completely funded by Medicare. They have been since the 70's. As Amanda said, nobody does anything "alone". Nothing helps us all more than investing in education. It pays us all back. It's why public education needs to be fixed rather than scrapped. Those who "did it on there own" will live in a pretty miserable world if the rest are left to poor education.

You have to make it through medical school to get into a residency program--and that's what I'm referring to. With residency programs it's like I said--a quid pro quo where the public derives benefit for the financial outlay.

I fully believe that public education in grades K-12 (and Head Start for at risk children) should be publicly funded. And I agree, it's another very broken system.

I feel that there is nothing wrong with some public funding being used to run public universities and community colleges--although the universities should be striving to be as self-sufficient as possible. The difference is that funding higher education on a high level assists the entire student body, as opposed to doling out one by one grants which a very small percentage of students will be able to take advantage of.

 

[Nennie]

I haven't read the whole thread. But the whole Mcmansion thing esp. here in Jersey because there is a million of them, they are so cookie cutter. One developement here by our farm is these huge 800,000 dollar homes and they only have 2 models!! They all look alike so yes they are Mcmansions just like McDonalds all look alike! My father got harrased once a long time ago because he bought a Rolls Royce so I see what you are saying. The person who harrased my dad if he only knew how hard my dad worked his whole life and literally came from total poverty. But I think we all need to step back and think before we speak. But for me the McMansion thing is not against the person its because they pretty much look all alike.

Do you live near Mullica Hill?? If not, our towns sounds very similar!! My development is not as cookie cutter as the one you describe, but there is a devlopment like that nearby.

I confess to liking McMansions, and to living in one! Sure, I would love to live in a custom home on 10 acres, but I can't afford it. What I can afford is a nice home on 1 1/2 acres that fits my budget!

Then again, my parents live in a home that's about 30 years old, and all of the houses in their development pretty much look alike too!

 

[ducklite]

Do you live near Mullica Hill?? If not, our towns sounds very similar!! My development is not as cookie cutter as the one you describe, but their is a devlopment like that nearby.

I confess to liking McMansions, and to living in one! Sure, I would love to live in a custom home on 10 acres, but I can't afford it. What I can afford is a nice home on 1 1/2 acres that fits my budget!

I'm sure it's a beautiful home!

Then again, my parents live in a home that's about 30 years old, and all of the houses in their development pretty much look alike too!

The house I grew up in was in a development that had four basic styles of houses. Ranch, raised ranch, Standish colonial, Hanover colonial. That development was built 50+ years ago now. Drive through a neighborhood in many parts of new England, and every house is either a ranch or a Cape. Instead of 10,000 s/f on 3/4 of an acre, they are 1800 s/f on a 50x75' lot. It's really no difference. They are still 10 feet from the proerty line, just that the "McMansions" are larger. The funny thing is that people can't even agree what makes a house a McMansion.

Is your home Toll Brothers or KHov?

 

[Nennie]

My home is a Piersol, which is a local builder here in NJ. Fortunately my town has a requirement that each new home be on at least an acre, so even though there are a lot of big houses, they are still somewhat spread out (at least in my opinion)!

 

[crcormier]

Great post, Tink&SquirtsMom.

I agree.

 

[Tyler's Dad]

You have to make it through medical school to get into a residency program--and that's what I'm referring to. With residency programs it's like I said--a quid pro quo where the public derives benefit for the financial outlay.

I fully believe that public education in grades K-12 (and Head Start for at risk children) should be publicly funded. And I agree, it's another very broken system.

I feel that there is nothing wrong with some public funding being used to run public universities and community colleges--although the universities should be striving to be as self-sufficient as possible. The difference is that funding higher education on a high level assists the entire student body, as opposed to doling out one by one grants which a very small percentage of students will be able to take advantage of.

Who cares what percentage get to take advantage of them? A very small percentage get to take advantage of private grants and scholorships. Most of those programs look for post secondary classes in high school, extra caricular activites, etc. In many small towns, those opportunities jsut aren't there. Then you get into the specialty grants and scholorships that come from churches and places liek the NAACP. Those are great, but very narrow in their choices. Pell grants are blind. They are there for anyone that qualifies. By giving all kids a chance at college, we churn out more people at a higher tax bracket. It all comes full circle.

 

[cardaway]

Well I for one actually find very little value in Tink&SquirtsMom's post. Since when is it all about comparisons? If you want to play that game, them there is only one person that really is in the worst shape and every single person better off than that one lowest example is better off.

I have the same kind of reaction to posts like "if that's all you have to complain about, consider yourself lucky." The fact that somebody is worse off means nothing to the person who is having a problem, and by the same token, there are people worse off financially int he world means nothing to the discussion of what we have to support in the this country.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Well I for one actually find very little value in Tink&SquirtsMom's post. Since when is it all about comparisons? If you want to play that game, them there is only one person that really is in the worst shape and every single person better off than that one lowest example is better off.

I have the same kind of reaction to posts like "if that's all you have to complain about, consider yourself lucky." The fact that somebody is worse off means nothing to the person who is having a problem, and by the same token, there are people worse off financially int he world means nothing to the discussion of what we have to support in the this country.

ITA

 

[ducklite]

Who cares what percentage get to take advantage of them? A very small percentage get to take advantage of private grants and scholorships. Most of those programs look for post secondary classes in high school, extra caricular activites, etc. In many small towns, those opportunities jsut aren't there.

Due to budget cuts they aren't there in large cities, either.

Then you get into the specialty grants and scholorships that come from churches and places liek the NAACP. Those are great, but very narrow in their choices. Pell grants are blind. They are there for anyone that qualifies. By giving all kids a chance at college, we churn out more people at a higher tax bracket. It all comes full circle.

The point is that through loans and work, there is NO REASON that almost everyone who really wants to can complete college. I had to drop out, I couldn't afford to attend. But, I could have gone back a couple years later when my financial situation was a bit better, I chose not to. The point is that I could ahve. I have a hard time believing that anyone who is a recipient of a Pell grant couldn't find an alternate way to finance their college education. It might not be at the college of their choice, but we can't all have everything we want, can we? It might not get them into Harvard medcal school, but there are plenty of other medical schools in the US that would be glad to look at an applicant from a small college with great grades.

 

[connorlevismom]

Who cares what percentage get to take advantage of them? A very small percentage get to take advantage of private grants and scholorships. Most of those programs look for post secondary classes in high school, extra caricular activites, etc. In many small towns, those opportunities jsut aren't there. Then you get into the specialty grants and scholorships that come from churches and places liek the NAACP. Those are great, but very narrow in their choices. Pell grants are blind. They are there for anyone that qualifies. By giving all kids a chance at college, we churn out more people at a higher tax bracket. It all comes full circle.

Not if your parents make to much money but refuse to give you any towards education. Then your S.O.L.

Kristine

 

[Banshee]

Do you live near Mullica Hill?? If not, our towns sounds very similar!! My development is not as cookie cutter as the one you describe, but there is a devlopment like that nearby.

I confess to liking McMansions, and to living in one! Sure, I would love to live in a custom home on 10 acres, but I can't afford it. What I can afford is a nice home on 1 1/2 acres that fits my budget!

Then again, my parents live in a home that's about 30 years old, and all of the houses in their development pretty much look alike too!

No we are in Ocean County. But we show in Mullica Hill sometimes at the fair grounds. I have noticed it is getting much more built up down there.

 

[ducklite]

Not if your parents make to much money but refuse to give you any towards education. Then your S.O.L.

Kristine

Which is exactly why the way that they currently run FASFA is absurd.