Should men be forced into fatherhood?

[Chilehead Too]

If he really didn't want to be a father, he should have continued to use a condom or abstained!

We tried for almost 9 years after my 1st child and I was diagonosed with secondary infertility.
I had to go on fertility drugs to concieve # 2 and 3. The doctors said I would never get pregnant on my own. Someone should have told child #4 that. oops

So I really belived I wouldn't get pregnant and I did.

 

[Sylvester McBean]

I think that is exactly what the whole Child Support thing is about. For a gazillion years, women alone faced the consequences of unwanted pregnancies. Now men are facing them, too.

but with the help and thanks of modern medicine, women have a choice now. we still don't, our hands are tied. it's like hitting a baseball and watching it fly towards a window. you know what the outcome will be, but you have no control over the situation.

 

[cardaway]

I think it would be beneficial to the women too. To know, before making their decision, what intent the man has regarding the pregnancy.

I see it as actually making people make a decision rather than default to "go for it" because the law supports the woman's bad decision.

I will never understand the pro-life and conservative agreement with child support on this matter. If they want fewer babies born out of wedlock they should be looking to reduce one of the root causes of the issue - women purposely having babies knowing they will get child support from a man that many times is never even part of the child's life.

I'm pro-choice but this piece of the puzzle almost always makes me change my mind. The only way this angle makes sense is if abortion was illegal and everybody needed to face the consequences of their actions.

I do not think a married man should have this right, nor should this right extend beyond the very beginning of the pregnancy.

Everybody I have heard agree on giving the man a choice agrees that the choice ends when he gets married.

 

[N.Bailey]

but with the help and thanks of modern medicine, women have a choice now. we still don't, our hands are tied. it's like hitting a baseball and watching it fly towards a window. you know what the outcome will be, but you have no control over the situation.

What do you mean you don't have a choice? Of course you do. You can abstain and/or use a condom.

I do not believe any father should be given the option of opting out. The children would be the ones to suffer in the end.

Here is a clue to all the men the country over. Don't have sex with a woman you don't wish to have a child with. What a theory, huh?

 

[poohandwendy]

I see it as actually making people make a decision rather than default to "go for it" because the law supports the woman's bad decision.

I will never understand the pro-life and conservative agreement with child support on this matter. If they want fewer babies born out of wedlock they should be looking to reduce one of the root causes of the issue - women purposely having babies knowing they will get child support from a man that many times is never even part of the child's life.

I'm pro-choice but this piece of the puzzle almost always makes me change my mind. The only way this angle makes sense is if abortion was illegal and everybody needed to face the consequences of their actions.



Everybody I have heard agree on giving the man a choice agrees that the choice ends when he gets married.

LOL, the irony is that I am pro-life and somewhat conservative. I just think that everyone should have the same decision making rights. I also believe that women would be making more informed decisions if they knew the men's intentions early on.

The argument that men should show more self restraint (keep it zippered, wear a condom, etc) is bogus, IMO. Same consentual act, same result....same rights to choose, IMO

Just wanted to add before anyone asks, I do not believe a man should have the right to force abortion or adoption. Only to terminate his parental rights and responsibilities.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

LOL, the irony is that I am pro-life and somewhat conservative. I just think that everyone should have the same decision making rights. I also believe that women would be making more informed decisions if they knew the men's intentions early on.

Same with me.

 

[chobie]

I see it as actually making people make a decision rather than default to "go for it" because the law supports the woman's bad decision.

I will never understand the pro-life and conservative agreement with child support on this matter. If they want fewer babies born out of wedlock they should be looking to reduce one of the root causes of the issue - women purposely having babies knowing they will get child support from a man that many times is never even part of the child's life.

I'm pro-choice but this piece of the puzzle almost always makes me change my mind. The only way this angle makes sense is if abortion was illegal and everybody needed to face the consequences of their actions.






Everybody I have heard agree on giving the man a choice agrees that the choice ends when he gets married.

Where are your statistics about out of wedlock pregnancies and women "purposely getting pregnant"?

Child support reform and a woman's right to decidewhat happens to her body are two separate issues. You would have more progressive pro-choice women fighting for this issue if you stopped threatening our health. The message your side is sending is "if you don't stop some women from getting child support -we will force you have babies you don't want".

 

[jgmklmhem]

What do you mean you don't have a choice? Of course you do. You can abstain and/or use a condom.

I do not believe any father should be given the option of opting out. The children would be the ones to suffer in the end.

Here is a clue to all the men the country over. Don't have sex with a woman you don't wish to have a child with. What a theory, huh?

The same could be said in an abortion argument. Other than in cases of rape no one forced the woman either.

 

[N.Bailey]

LOL, the irony is that I am pro-life and somewhat conservative. I just think that everyone should have the same decision making rights. I also believe that women would be making more informed decisions if they knew the men's intentions early on.

The argument that men should show more self restraint (keep it zippered, wear a condom, etc) is bogus, IMO. Same consentual act, same result....same rights to choose, IMO

Just wanted to add before anyone asks, I do not believe a man should have the right to force abortion or adoption. Only to terminate his parental rights and responsibilities.

I am so shocked to read your responses. LOL We normally agree on most everything.

IMO however, giving the father the option of opting out will only force individual states to take on the financial burden.

 

[Sylvester McBean]

What do you mean you don't have a choice? Of course you do. You can abstain and/or use a condom.

I do not believe any father should be given the option of opting out. The children would be the ones to suffer in the end.

Here is a clue to all the men the country over. Don't have sex with a woman you don't wish to have a child with. What a theory, huh?

hmm, works both ways. don't have sex with a man if he's unprotected. demand protection, unless you have ulterior motives....

 

[TammySB]

Might be a little off topic, but my DB got divorced two years ago, they were married 9 years, and have a 12DD and 10DS. My brother got full custody of both children, before the divorce was final ex SIL gets pregnant (not my DB baby, he had a vasectomy 6yrs ago) She claimed it was this guys baby, that family was all excited, and after the birth they requested a paternity test, she said sure I'm 100% positive he is the father.(keep in mind they are still married at this time) Well guess what she was WRONG and no it still was not my brothers. Anyhow, my brother did not request child support at the time the divorce was final, she got visitation. But two months ago my brother filed papers for contempt and seeking child support. She got in contact with my brothers atty and asked her to draw up papers so she could terminate all her parental rights. Tomorow it will be final. The kids dont know yet that she has done this, my DB is waiting to make sure it goes thru first, and they have an appointment with a family therapist next week. It was real easy for her to terminate her parental rights. As a mother who has given birth I can not imagine terminating my parental rights after raising them for 9 years. She is a worthless piece of %#&t!! in my book, because it all came down to not wanting to pay child support.

 

[Sylvester McBean]

IMO however, giving the father the option of opting out will only force individual states to take on the financial burden.

why can't the mother step up and take on the financial burden herself?

 

[poohandwendy]

I am so shocked to read your responses. LOL We normally agree on most everything.

IMO however, giving the father the option of opting out will only force individual states to take on the financial burden.

LOL Nance, it was bound to happen eventually. Still love ya though!


I guess part of my reasoning comes from the fact that I worked with many unwed pregnant teens and it was alarming how many of them just assumed that carrying his baby would automatically tie him emotionally and financially to her forever, like an insurance policy. Just does not work that way because men who realy, really do not want any oart of it will do everything in their power to avoid the reponsibility. I am not even just talking about purposeful pregnancies.


I am talking about not worrying about protect8ing themselves because they think they have him caught. Bottom line, men don't wait for their period to show up, they don't carry a pregnancy fo 9 months. They are not going to be as worried about pregnancy as women.

This sort of law is not going to make nhonorable men suddenly dishonorable.

But, it would make women (who do end up with the burden if they get pregnant and continue the pregnancy) think long and hard about it before hand. Ie, I may be on my own here...do I want to take that chance?

As it stands, holding men responsible financially is not making stronger families.

JMHO

 

[N.Bailey]

The same could be said in an abortion argument. Other than in cases of rape no one forced the woman either.

There are many woman who are pro life out there. Is there really an option of terminating an unplanned pregnancy for them? Sure, it's a mistake, but to those women, 2 wrongs don't make a right and so they're forced into early motherhood too. Why should the man be allowed to walk away scott free? Why should the state have to take on the financial burden in many of these cases?

Both are culpable, and both are responsible. Keep your pants zipped up and I promise you, you'll never find yourself in this situation.

I constantly hear the excuse that the woman tricked me, or the same type argument stated any number of ways. Why in the world would you even be intimate with a woman if you're unsure of how she'd react in a situation like this? She certainly can't trick you if you don't allow her to.

 

[N.Bailey]

hmm, works both ways. don't have sex with a man if he's unprotected. demand protection, unless you have ulterior motives....

Well, if your woman isn't demanding protection, perhaps that's your sign right there. At that point, use a condom, or don't go there.

BTW: I am a product of a condom. LOL

My daughter is also a product of the pill.

 

[WatchinCaptKangaroo]

Why do you think that the second situation would result in criminal charges while the first situation is not that uncommon? I have no idea why you would think that becuase you certainly have nothing to back it up.

Well I can think whatever I like. You are correct, I do have nothing to back it up. But for some reason I think that while if a woman lies to a man to trap him, the same thing done by a man to trap a woman would be considered stalking or something. There is a serious double standard in our legal system. These are just my thoughts.

Sadly, I don't believe that a woman lying about her birth control method in order to trap a man is that uncommon. It's not common, but it certainly happens. I bet if you ask around one of your friends will know a guy who has been trapped.

Like it or not, there are devious women out there who will stop at nothing to get a guy that they want to stay with them.

 

[MouseWorshipin]

but with the help and thanks of modern medicine, women have a choice now. we still don't, our hands are tied. it's like hitting a baseball and watching it fly towards a window. you know what the outcome will be, but you have no control over the situation.

Said it before, this does seem unfair. The guy stands there watching the ball, while the woman has the option of catching it, that's how the guy sees it. And other times he wants the child, but she aborts. Unfair again.

But not all women see abortion as an alternative. LOTS of women carry, give birth to, and raise children they didn't want to have. It's over when they read the test. There is no Should I or Shouldn't I.

Guys shouldn't be hitting the ball and then running away and leaving the women on the mound, assuming she'll just catch it for them, and if she doesn't, let her talk to the homeowner.

Not to mention that on the other side of the window lies a baby who is about to get showered with broken glass.

I beat your simile to death!

 

[Sylvester McBean]

Well, if your woman isn't demanding protection, perhaps that's your sign right there. At that point, use a condom, or don't go there.

BTW: I am a product of a condom. LOL

My daughter is also a product of the pill.

no matter how many responses I read, the responsibility seems to remain at the hand of the guy. 'don't do this if you don't want this'. 'wear this if you don't want that.' 'go into it expecting a baby'.
but if the girl ends up pregnant no matter how many precautions are used or lies told, it's time to open up the bank account. what a fair system.

 

[N.Bailey]

LOL Nance, it was bound to happen eventually. Still love ya though!


I guess part of my reasoning comes from the fact that I worked with many unwed pregnant teens and it was alarming how many of them just assumed that carrying his baby would automatically tie him emotionally and financially to her forever, like an insurance policy. Just does not work that way because men who realy, really do not want any oart of it will do everything in their power to avoid the reponsibility. I am not even just talking about purposeful pregnancies.


I am talking about not worrying about protect8ing themselves because they think they have him caught. Bottom line, men don't wait for their period to show up, they don't carry a pregnancy fo 9 months. They are not going to be as worried about pregnancy as women.

This sort of law is not going to make nhonorable men suddenly dishonorable.

But, it would make women (who do end up with the burden if they get pregnant and continue the pregnancy) think long and hard about it before hand. Ie, I may be on my own here...do I want to take that chance?

As it stands, holding men responsible financially is not making stronger families.

JMHO

I agree that it was bound to happen!

I just don't think releasing fathers from culpability is going to lower unplanned pregnancies and/or teen pregnancies. I certainly would never say that no woman has ever duped a man by getting pregnant, but I don't feel that's the case for the vast majority. I think it happens for any number of reasons. One being that young girls can't, or are afraid to talk to their parents about getting on the pill, or possibly don't have access to a local Planned Parenthood.

If the child/woman is morally against abortion, her life changes completely. She's responsible for not only the daily care of the new baby, but also the financial aspect of it all.

It took 2 to make that baby. Sure, the man can walk away from the daily care if he so chooses, but IMO, I do not believe he should get to walk away from the financial aspect. The boy won't be legally obligated while he attends school though, so it really has no real bearing on his career choices. You really can't say the same for the female. Her entire life now revolves around a child.

I also do not believe that any court in this nation will release this guy from the legal responsibility of financially caring for the child he helped to conceive. By doing so, it only opens a huge can of worms that will end up costing the states into the millions and possibly the hundred millions in child care costs.

Tammy,
My SIL's ex signed off his parental rights too. He was more than eager to do so upon hearing that it would relieve him from all future support. If a deal such as this can be stuck between all parties, I do fully support that decision. I just don't support it when the father (or mother in some cases) just doesn't want to pay his dues for his mistake.

 

[goofygirl]

No man or woman should be forced to be a parent. If I was forced to be a mother, I'd kill myself because I'd be so unhappy.


But, on the other hand, if you don't want kids, then DON'T HAVE ANY. I am tired of hearing every excuse in the book for unplanned babies.