Shiny Happy People Docuseries

[DLgal]

Well if you say you'd disown them, they'd be dead to you and not welcome in your home....- I mean isn't that the same thing? I'm not sure how you could interpret that any differently.

AND you said this referring to the first sign that your minor child was inappropriate with another of your minor children. - This is very different than the story the pp explained where there was 6 years and an escalation of behavior that they were talking about.

I get it, this is not an easy thing to think about, but I was just explaining that if something like this ever happened to you or myself it's not nearly as cut and dry as you seemed to feel it should have been for Joshs parents.

Yes, after turning my child into authorities, I'd make it well known that I am done being responsible for that child. I wouldn't literally just kick them out one day and be like "see ya!" They would need to be legally turned over out of my care. I wouldn't leave them in the streets. That's what you seem to be inferring.

This scenario is VERY black and white to me. Same as murder. No gray areas. Some of us do operate this way. My husband feels the same way, fwiw.

 

[NotUrsula]

Most of the time when authorities recommend voluntary relinquishment of parental rights, the reason is to get the child adequate psychiatric treatment. Most private insurance in the US will not pay for long-term residential psychiatric treatment, and if you cannot pay out-of-pocket for it (avg. cost as of last year was $250K/yr), the most common way of getting access to it is to relinquish parental rights so that the child will qualify for Medicaid coverage. It's awful, but it's recommended fairly often in cases where minors are a danger to others and no private insurance will cover residential treatment.

The mental-health reform program of the 1960s was meant to stop facilities' abuse and neglect of patients, but what we ended up with instead is a piecemeal system that is full of holes and completely inadequate for protecting society from mentally-ill individuals who are a danger to themselves or to others.

 

[monsterkitty]

The true victim in that case is the owner of the Domino's store. I hope he was able to get some type of compensation because his life would have never been the same. What a shame.

I'm a bit confused on the part where the court recommended that the child become a ward of the state so the parents could save themselves. Maybe the court deemed the parents unfit to provide appropriate care and treatment to what sounds like a child with major behavioral issues? I believe you that the rights were terminated, but the court almost never severs parental rights to outright benefit the parents. It's almost always about what is in the best interest of the child.

Those types of cases fascinate me; the nature vs nurture aspect. I'm assuming the other children were fairly normally behaved, so why did a middle child have such major behavioral issues?

This was in the early 80s and I'm sure things were different then.

He began the abuse at the age of 9. As he grew older, the abuse changed to different forms of violence, including the tormenting and killing of animals. At the age of 15, his parents and everyone else involved had tried treatment, counseling, and everything else they could do. The best interest of this child was intense therapy, which could not be provided by the parents. They were promised their son would get the intense therapy he needed, but even as a ward of the state they could not control him.

At one of the hearings for a crime that was committed, which was a carjacking, it was advised the parents terminate parental rights.

All the other children were well behaved. Never did I say he was a middle child because he was not. All of the other children attended college and a few have advanced degrees.

The parents were not deemed unfit. They had done everything they could and so did the "system." It was incredibly tragic for all involved, especially his mother. She is still good friends with my mom, and it was talked about a lot in our house because the mom used my mom as a sounding board. The mom still struggles today.

If this boy was a child of today, he would have been diagnosed with oppositional defiance disorder and a host of other mental illnesses. The treatment would probably be different because there have been advances. And there have been changes in the legal and youth services systems since then.

 

[DisneylandFreak2013]

His younger brother was around 9 when he molested their younger sisters.

Never did I say he was a middle child because he was not.

Totally insignificant detail, but now I'm just curious. If he was younger than the older son (your friend) and older than the younger daughters (the ones molested), is that not a middle child?

 

[monsterkitty]

Totally insignificant detail, but now I'm just curious. If he was younger than the older son (your friend) and older than the younger daughters (the ones molested), is that not a middle child?

Nope.

He was the second oldest. He had two younger sisters and 2 younger brothers.

Happy now?

 

[disney4us2002]

Sorry, but no. There is no gray area with sexual assault, ESPECIALLY when the victims are your other children! Are you being serious here? No. If my son did that to my other child, I'd turn him in so fast his head would spin. He'd be dead to me. He would be never welcomed back into my house again. He would not be part of our family anymore. I would not be happy about it. It would be absolutely terrible, but I would mourn him as though he died. I am 100% serious about this. Sexually assaulting a child is unforgivable to me. It is the most heinous act imaginable and there is no situation where I would protect my child if he victimized a child (or anyone, frankly) in that manner.

As a caseworker in CW for nearly 30 years I really wish I could say this is rare, but sadly, it's not that uncommon. We have several children/youth in "foster care" because the parents abandoned him/her after a sibling situation. They all need intervention and therapy. The "offending" child is also in need of services, therapy, intervention and yes, love. This is a complicated dynamic and not nearly as black and white as anyone would hope.

Just saw your last post. You may think it is black and white because it is only a "what if" scenario but I promise if this were the case, it is not black and white. I truly hope you never have to experience it to know what I mean.

 

[DisneylandFreak2013]

Nope.

He was the second oldest. He had two younger sisters and 2 younger brothers.

Happy now?

Not really, because that doesn't make much sense. But no need to further answer. Have a good night.

 

[nancipants]

Changing the subject…

I really hope this documentary shines light on all these family reality shows and forces some sort of reform. Children should not be able to be exploited like this. Payments should go to trusts for all the minor family members.

 

[Lilsia]

I don't understand how there can be so many people that are so easily brainwashed and manipulated like this. Who in their right minds listens to the garbage that comes out of these "religious leaders" mouths and thinks, "yep, that is reality and that is how we should live"? Are people really so weak minded that they have no internal right and wrong? Religions are a cult, there is no doubt about it. It is an outdated concept from a time where we didn't have the information that we do now. And frankly, I don't know how anyone can hear these stories and actually believe that they are real. Especially these groups that control woman with what they can wear, how much education they should get, etc. When will everyone else finally wake up?

 

[nancipants]

It's especially galling when you realize the head of IBLP, Bill Gothard, was preaching all these life principles for marriage and family... yet he never got married or had a family.

 

[TippyThomas]

I don't understand how there can be so many people that are so easily brainwashed and manipulated like this. Who in their right minds listens to the garbage that comes out of these "religious leaders" mouths and thinks, "yep, that is reality and that is how we should live"? Are people really so weak minded that they have no internal right and wrong? Religions are a cult, there is no doubt about it. It is an outdated concept from a time where we didn't have the information that we do now. And frankly, I don't know how anyone can hear these stories and actually believe that they are real. Especially these groups that control woman with what they can wear, how much education they should get, etc. When will everyone else finally wake up?

If it's all you've ever known and it's all you're ever exposed to, it's pretty easy to make it an acceptable reality. Not saying it's right, but it happens much easier than you would think when it's all you ever know.

 

[Pink Partridge]

I mean, you mentioned they would never be allowed in your home again and they would be dead to you. So you turn them in and they go to juvenile incarceration for a few years? And after they get out at 18, then what? I just couldn't be content knowing my son or daughter was out there, possibly suffering, and just imagining him or her being dead knowing truly that he was still alive somewhere. Especially if they have any medical/mental health issues. That's fine that would work for you, but it wouldn't work for myself.

At 18, Josh continued his sexual assaults, as well as moved on to explicit child pornography. For the most part, you can't rehabilitate a repeat sexual offender. He digitally penetrated his 5 year old sister and abused the other girls over and over again. For years.

You have to make a choice in instances like this. I would not choose to ever welcome the abuser back in the home.

 

[snikki]

If it's all you've ever known and it's all you're ever exposed to, it's pretty easy to make it an acceptable reality. Not saying it's right, but it happens much easier than you would think when it's all you ever know.

I understand the ones who are born into it and know nothing else but the ones who brought into it as adults….I can’t comprehend. You know the outside world. Why would you choose this for yourself AND your children?

 

[DawnM]

I don't understand how there can be so many people that are so easily brainwashed and manipulated like this. Who in their right minds listens to the garbage that comes out of these "religious leaders" mouths and thinks, "yep, that is reality and that is how we should live"? Are people really so weak minded that they have no internal right and wrong? Religions are a cult, there is no doubt about it. It is an outdated concept from a time where we didn't have the information that we do now. And frankly, I don't know how anyone can hear these stories and actually believe that they are real. Especially these groups that control woman with what they can wear, how much education they should get, etc. When will everyone else finally wake up.

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, the definition of a cult is not "any religion any time." There are officially (by definition) major religions and also a lot of minor religions and sects of certain religions. But Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam are not cults. There may be facets that break off that are cultic, but they are not termed as cults. It seems that Bill Gothard's sect would certainly resemble a cult. He has taken something that is mainstream and added a bunch of stuff to it. However, I do not believe mainline Christianity would fall into the cult definition.

 

[sk!mom]

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, the definition of a cult is not "any religion any time." There are officially (by definition) major religions and also a lot of minor religions and sects of certain religions. But Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam are not cults. There may be facets that break off that are cultic, but they are not termed as cults. It seems that Bill Gothard's sect would certainly resemble a cult. He has taken something that is mainstream and added a bunch of stuff to it. However, I do not believe mainline Christianity would fall into the cult definition.

Agree in theory but in experience and much reading and study in recent years, many many individual congregations and denominations begin to gray the line between religion and cult.

When churches start trying to control people’s time, money, activities, autonomy the line gets fuzzy. Things like requiring members to sign compacts. Look into Matt Chandler, Hillsong, and Mars Hill for just a couple of examples. Many podcasts addressing this. It doesn’t have to be as extreme as IBLP to be religious abuse.

 

[Lilsia]

It's especially galling when you realize the head of IBLP, Bill Gothard, was preaching all these life principles for marriage and family... yet he never got married or had a family.

Same with the Catholic church. They have you go talk to the priest to get marriage counseling before they will marry you. And I always thought, how the heck would a priest know anything about marriage? The older generation of my family were Catholic but most of us in my generation have realized what a sham it all is. But they would push us to get married in the church so we knew about the "counseling". My cousin did and she told us about how the priest asked invasive questions like if they were already having sex and if she was on birth control, etc. It is all just so creepy and none of their business.

 

[Lilsia]

If it's all you've ever known and it's all you're ever exposed to, it's pretty easy to make it an acceptable reality. Not saying it's right, but it happens much easier than you would think when it's all you ever know.

But I am talking about just ALL religion in general too. Those who live typical lives and have access to science and education other than the church. How do all of those people still fall for the big lie?

 

[Lilsia]

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, the definition of a cult is not "any religion any time." There are officially (by definition) major religions and also a lot of minor religions and sects of certain religions. But Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam are not cults. There may be facets that break off that are cultic, but they are not termed as cults. It seems that Bill Gothard's sect would certainly resemble a cult. He has taken something that is mainstream and added a bunch of stuff to it. However, I do not believe mainline Christianity would fall into the cult definition.

They are not termed as such, but that does not change my, and many other's opinion about it. Anything where you live by the rules and dogma that another person made up, is a cult. I think that if everyone actually did their research and looked into the history of where religion comes from, instead of just believing what they were told from birth, that they would quickly realize that it is all made up and has no basis in reality. Ask yourself why religion has changed so much and why there are so many "god". If there really was a god that created everything, it would be clear wouldn't it.

 

[Southernmiss]

The Catholic Church does have married couples who help to prepare couples for marriages. In parishes that I have been in, the priest immediately refers the engaged to a married couple for the counseling.

The priest will meet with the engaged a couple of times, but not for the counseling sessions.

 

[sk!mom]

The Catholic Church does have married couples who help to prepare couples for marriages. In parishes that I have been in, the priest immediately refers the engaged to a married couple for the counseling.

The priest will meet with the engaged a couple of times, but not for the counseling sessions.

But how are random couples qualified to counsel? I’ve been married for 43 years but when anyone asks me how we’ve made it work, I’m . My DH responds with, “be kind. That’s all I’ve got. We’re both just really kind to each other.” (Actually he’s truly kind. I need work at times)