Shiny Happy People Docuseries

[Frederic Civish]

It's more than just the Duggars featured. It's a lot to wrap your head around.

But, what a house of horrors! Worse than I even imagined.

I hope CPS visits this home daily for the remaining children, especially the girls.

It is incredibly sad to realize that horrors like this are still going on in our day and age, and that they continue to happen. The world has both good and bad, of course, but I'd rather close my eyes and try to focus on the redeeming qualities.

 

[DisneylandFreak2013]

Sorry, but no. There is no gray area with sexual assault, ESPECIALLY when the victims are your other children! Are you being serious here? No. If my son did that to my other child, I'd turn him in so fast his head would spin. He'd be dead to me. He would be never welcomed back into my house again. He would not be part of our family anymore. I would not be happy about it. It would be absolutely terrible, but I would mourn him as though he died. I am 100% serious about this. Sexually assaulting a child is unforgivable to me. It is the most heinous act imaginable and there is no situation where I would protect my child if he victimized a child (or anyone, frankly) in that manner.

I think I remember from previous posts that your kids have a severe form of autism. You would be willing to kick your under 18-year-old child to the curb that has an intellectual disability? Not many parents are willing to do that.

Also sorry, but no. In most states, you cannot just kick out or abandon a 15-year-old and expect no legal repercussions from that no matter what heinous crime they committed.

 

[PollyannaMom]

Finally watched this week. - Made me embarrassed to admit I ever watched the Duggers' original show! I never thought of them as "normal" but I didn't know how bad it actually was behind the scenes, or the true size of the organization behind them. Very brave of the ones who have gotten out.

 

[pigletto]

Honestly I’ve only read back a few pages so I’ve only seen discussion of Josh and his crimes.

Was anyone as horrified as me at the homeschool militia and the fact that they’ve specifically educated these kids to run for office and positions of authority?

They kept mentioning they are playing a long game, breeding all these children to homeschool them into little fascists and then unleash them on our governments and shoving their “values” down our throats while screeching about their freedom. We are watching it play out.

I guess seeing it laid out like that reaffirmed what we are seeing but it was still really jarring.

 

[monsterkitty]

I think I remember from previous posts that your kids have a severe form of autism. You would be willing to kick your under 18-year-old child to the curb that has an intellectual disability? Not many parents are willing to do that.

Also sorry, but no. In most states, you cannot just kick out or abandon a 15-year-old and expect no legal repercussions from that no matter what heinous crime they committed.

I'll play because this actually happened to a very good friend in high school. His younger brother was around 9 when he molested their younger sisters. The parents did everything they could to protect their daughters and get help for their son. Because of his age at that time, he was not prosecuted or placed in a juvenile detention center or home. His parents paid for therapy as they begged the legal system for help.

Their son continued to get in trouble and break laws. At the age of 15, his parents, on the recommendation of the court, they legally gave their son up. Their lawyer and everyone else involved in the case saw the increasing violence in the crimes. Knowing the parents would legally be responsible for anything their son did, it was determined that the safest plan of action for the other children in the house as well as the parents was to terminate the parents' rights over the child.

Two months later, while serving a sentence in a group home, their son and a few others walked away from the group home. They stole a car, obtained weapons and drove to a Dominos pizza store with the plan on robbing it for money. The owner was shot by my friends brother and was paralized. The owner did get one shot off and that shot killed my friend's brother.

If the parents had not severed their parental rights, they would have been on the hook for the money the owner would have sued them for, as well as other possible charges and lawsuits.

Sometimes drastic measures have to be taken to protect others.

 

[DLgal]

I think I remember from previous posts that your kids have a severe form of autism. You would be willing to kick your under 18-year-old child to the curb that has an intellectual disability? Not many parents are willing to do that.

Also sorry, but no. In most states, you cannot just kick out or abandon a 15-year-old and expect no legal repercussions from that no matter what heinous crime they committed.

No. My kids don't have a severe form of autism. They are both classified as Autism-Level 1, which is the least severe.

And I didn't say I would kick them out. I said I would TURN THEM IN, to authorities, and allow the justice system to handle them. I would not pay for their lawyer. They'd get a public defendant. What happened to Josh Duggar with "the sheriff" was a sham.

People with intellectual disabilities can learn right from wrong just like anyone else. In fact, individuals with autism tend to be MORE law abiding and rule following than most. Once you teach them right from wrong, they hold onto that very strongly. They innately have a very strong sense of fairness and justice. At least my sons do, as well as all their autistic friends. Because of that, if either of my son's engaged in the absolutely abhorrent act of sexually assaulting a child, in multiple instances, to include younger siblings, you bet your behind I'd not support them at all. That behavior is not redeemable. I'd hand them over to be wards of the state, and terminate my parental rights.

 

[PollyannaMom]

Was anyone as horrified as me at the homeschool militia and the fact that they’ve specifically educated these kids to run for office and positions of authority?

Yes!

 

[Suger Mag]

Honestly I’ve only read back a few pages so I’ve only seen discussion of Josh and his crimes.

Was anyone as horrified as me at the homeschool militia and the fact that they’ve specifically educated these kids to run for office and positions of authority?

They kept mentioning they are playing a long game, breeding all these children to homeschool them into little fascists and then unleash them on our governments and shoving their “values” down our throats while screeching about their freedom. We are watching it play out.

I guess seeing it laid out like that reaffirmed what we are seeing but it was still really jarring.

yes, I find it scary, to be fair, I NEVER thought the Duggers were normal, but this is even worse. I just finished the show and I watched this mainly so I am aware of the extent religious zealots who are out there and who want to force their beliefs on my existence. Know thine enemy.

It seems like a lot of the issues that certain conservative religious based groups are terrified of and flood the fear-waves with: indoctrination or talk of an 'agenda' in education, rampant pedophilia and abuse, book bans, control and brainwashing....are simply just what groups like the IBLP have been doing all along themselves....

 

[nancipants]

Honestly I’ve only read back a few pages so I’ve only seen discussion of Josh and his crimes.

Was anyone as horrified as me at the homeschool militia and the fact that they’ve specifically educated these kids to run for office and positions of authority?

They kept mentioning they are playing a long game, breeding all these children to homeschool them into little fascists and then unleash them on our governments and shoving their “values” down our throats while screeching about their freedom. We are watching it play out.

I guess seeing it laid out like that reaffirmed what we are seeing but it was still really jarring.

Yes, it's one of the reasons I think everyone should watch this documentary. There are some people in this country who like to scream very loudly about certain "agendas" being shoved down people's throats, when in reality it's organizations like IBLP who actually want to turn the US into a Christian theocracy.

 

[DLgal]

yes, I find it scary, to be fair, I NEVER thought the Duggers were normal, but this is even worse. I just finished the show and I watched this mainly so I am aware of the extent religious zealots who are out there and who want to force their beliefs on my existence. Know thine enemy.

It seems like a lot of the issues that certain conservative religious based groups are terrified of and flood the fear-waves with: indoctrination or talk of an 'agenda' in education, rampant pedophilia and abuse, book bans, control and brainwashing....are simply just what groups like the IBLP have been doing all along themselves....

You remember that old saying: when you point a finger at someone, there are 3 fingers pointing back at you? Yeah, that.

All this fear mongering is projection and self loathing.

 

[snikki]

I never watched the show regularly but I had family that did. I do remember watching a few episodes when josh and Anna were getting engaged and married. For having no experience with the show I found the whole engagement incredibly uncomfortable. Anna looked terrified and now we know that she knew of Josh’s molestation past. I wonder if she had any feelings of “this isn’t right.”

The episode where his father decides to do the birds and the bees talk was creepy too. I remember having a feeling of ick watching that. Where he asks if the book has pictures and it doesn’t matter because he’ll have his own personal model.

I wonder if their sex life was brutal for Anna. If he turned his perverted fantasies into real life scenes with Anna. Or if he “saved” that for his escorts. I do not condone Anna protecting him and I think it’s disgusting that she’s not protecting her kids better but I do understand she’s a victim herself.

There have been signs throughout this all.

 

[brockash]

I'll play because this actually happened to a very good friend in high school. His younger brother was around 9 when he molested their younger sisters. The parents did everything they could to protect their daughters and get help for their son. Because of his age at that time, he was not prosecuted or placed in a juvenile detention center or home. His parents paid for therapy as they begged the legal system for help.

Their son continued to get in trouble and break laws. At the age of 15, his parents, on the recommendation of the court, they legally gave their son up. Their lawyer and everyone else involved in the case saw the increasing violence in the crimes. Knowing the parents would legally be responsible for anything their son did, it was determined that the safest plan of action for the other children in the house as well as the parents was to terminate the parents' rights over the child.

Two months later, while serving a sentence in a group home, their son and a few others walked away from the group home. They stole a car, obtained weapons and drove to a Dominos pizza store with the plan on robbing it for money. The owner was shot by my friends brother and was paralized. The owner did get one shot off and that shot killed my friend's brother.

If the parents had not severed their parental rights, they would have been on the hook for the money the owner would have sued them for, as well as other possible charges and lawsuits.

Sometimes drastic measures have to be taken to protect others.

This is very different though compared to what the pp was arguing. This seems like a typical process of how things would play out, but they didn't throw the 9 year old out and disown him from the get-go, which is what a pp was stating.

It sounds like these parents did everything they could and made the best decisions they could in such an impossible situation.

 

[NotUrsula]

yes, I find it scary, to be fair, I NEVER thought the Duggers were normal, but this is even worse. I just finished the show and I watched this mainly so I am aware of the extent religious zealots who are out there and who want to force their beliefs on my existence. Know thine enemy.

It seems like a lot of the issues that certain conservative religious based groups are terrified of and flood the fear-waves with: indoctrination or talk of an 'agenda' in education, rampant pedophilia and abuse, book bans, control and brainwashing....are simply just what groups like the IBLP have been doing all along themselves....

The Washington Post had a very interesting article last week, the first of a series they are doing on the rise of homeschooling, which will address a broad spectrum of methods and motivations. This first story features a couple who grew up in one of those very conservative sects and had been homeschooling as they had been homeschooled. They decided to put one of their children in public school (they live in an excellent district) because she had some reading issues that they felt inadequate to address. Their families were very against it, and the story goes through the fears that they had and their discovery that they had been completely lied to about where the real risk of brainwashing lay. https://www.washingtonpost.com/educ...&utm_source=extension&itid=lk_inline_manual_4

Note: I have no issue with religious education, homeschooled or otherwise, but I do not like the scattershot lack of educational quality control that has developed around homeschooling in the US. I believe that ALL U.S. children need to take basic standardized tests to assess their grade-level progress, and homeschooled children who fall behind past a certain point should be assigned monitors to ensure that their lesson plans are at very least covering the skills necessary to be able to pass a GED.

 

[DLgal]

This is very different though compared to what the pp was arguing. This seems like a typical process of how things would play out, but they didn't throw the 9 year old out and disown him from the get-go, which is what a pp was stating.

It sounds like these parents did everything they could and made the best decisions they could in such an impossible situation.

Show me where I said I would throw my child out into the streets. I never once said that.

I said I would disown them. I would.

I said I would not support them, financially. True.

I said I would turn them into the authorities. Check.

I said I would not let the child back into my home after doing that to a sibling. I stand behind that. I would protect the victim at all costs.

In the end, these parents ended up in the same place I would in this hypothetical situation.

I'm not sure why it is so hard to accept that there are parents out there who would NOT support their child if they committed an evil act like this. The fact that there are parents who would protect, hide, or otherwise help their child avoid accountability with the law under these circumstances is disgusting to me. It's shameful. Just because you created a human doesn't mean that human can do no wrong.

 

[DisneylandFreak2013]

No. My kids don't have a severe form of autism. They are both classified as Autism-Level 1, which is the least severe.

And I didn't say I would kick them out. I said I would TURN THEM IN, to authorities, and allow the justice system to handle them. I would not pay for their lawyer. They'd get a public defendant. What happened to Josh Duggar with "the sheriff" was a sham.

People with intellectual disabilities can learn right from wrong just like anyone else. In fact, individuals with autism tend to be MORE law abiding and rule following than most. Once you teach them right from wrong, they hold onto that very strongly. They innately have a very strong sense of fairness and justice. At least my sons do, as well as all their autistic friends. Because of that, if either of my son's engaged in the absolutely abhorrent act of sexually assaulting a child, in multiple instances, to include younger siblings, you bet your behind I'd not support them at all. That behavior is not redeemable. I'd hand them over to be wards of the state, and terminate my parental rights.

I mean, you mentioned they would never be allowed in your home again and they would be dead to you. So you turn them in and they go to juvenile incarceration for a few years? And after they get out at 18, then what? I just couldn't be content knowing my son or daughter was out there, possibly suffering, and just imagining him or her being dead knowing truly that he was still alive somewhere. Especially if they have any medical/mental health issues. That's fine that would work for you, but it wouldn't work for myself.

Or, if the DA refuses to prosecute the case (which happens pretty frequently, unfortunately), then what? You said they were dead and not allowed back in the home, so at 15 years old it sounds like his/her options are the street or worse. I consider that being kicked out.

 

[DLgal]

I mean, you mentioned they would never be allowed in your home again and they would be dead to you. So you turn them in and they go to juvenile incarceration for a few years? And after they get out at 18, then what? I just couldn't be content knowing my son or daughter was out there, possibly suffering, and just imagining him or her being dead knowing truly that he was still alive somewhere. Especially if they have any medical/mental health issues. That's fine that would work for you, but it wouldn't work for myself.

Or, if the DA refuses to prosecute the case (which happens pretty frequently, unfortunately), then what? You said they were dead and not allowed back in the home, so at 15 years old it sounds like his/her options are the street or worse. I consider that being kicked out.

I stand behind what I said.

My boys are now 18 and 17 and I'm confident that they are good young men with kind hearts. They have never even told a lie at any point in their lives. At this point, if they commit some heinous crime, they will be tried as adults and will have to deal with whatever consequences befall them. I won't support them in any way if they do something like that and there is absolute certainty that they haven't been unfairly accused.

 

[DisneylandFreak2013]

I'll play because this actually happened to a very good friend in high school. His younger brother was around 9 when he molested their younger sisters. The parents did everything they could to protect their daughters and get help for their son. Because of his age at that time, he was not prosecuted or placed in a juvenile detention center or home. His parents paid for therapy as they begged the legal system for help.

Their son continued to get in trouble and break laws. At the age of 15, his parents, on the recommendation of the court, they legally gave their son up. Their lawyer and everyone else involved in the case saw the increasing violence in the crimes. Knowing the parents would legally be responsible for anything their son did, it was determined that the safest plan of action for the other children in the house as well as the parents was to terminate the parents' rights over the child.

Two months later, while serving a sentence in a group home, their son and a few others walked away from the group home. They stole a car, obtained weapons and drove to a Dominos pizza store with the plan on robbing it for money. The owner was shot by my friends brother and was paralized. The owner did get one shot off and that shot killed my friend's brother.

If the parents had not severed their parental rights, they would have been on the hook for the money the owner would have sued them for, as well as other possible charges and lawsuits.

Sometimes drastic measures have to be taken to protect others.

The true victim in that case is the owner of the Domino's store. I hope he was able to get some type of compensation because his life would have never been the same. What a shame.

I'm a bit confused on the part where the court recommended that the child become a ward of the state so the parents could save themselves. Maybe the court deemed the parents unfit to provide appropriate care and treatment to what sounds like a child with major behavioral issues? I believe you that the rights were terminated, but the court almost never severs parental rights to outright benefit the parents. It's almost always about what is in the best interest of the child.

Those types of cases fascinate me; the nature vs nurture aspect. I'm assuming the other children were fairly normally behaved, so why did a middle child have such major behavioral issues?

 

[Southernmiss]

The Washington Post had a very interesting article last week, the first of a series they are doing on the rise of homeschooling, which will address a broad spectrum of methods and motivations. This first story features a couple who grew up in one of those very conservative sects and had been homeschooling as they had been homeschooled. They decided to put one of their children in public school (they live in an excellent district) because she had some reading issues that they felt inadequate to address. Their families were very against it, and the story goes through the fears that they had and their discovery that they had been completely lied to about where the real risk of brainwashing lay. https://www.washingtonpost.com/educ...&utm_source=extension&itid=lk_inline_manual_4

Note: I have no issue with religious education, homeschooled or otherwise, but I do not like the scattershot lack of educational quality control that has developed around homeschooling in the US. I believe that ALL U.S. children need to take basic standardized tests to assess their grade-level progress, and homeschooled children who fall behind past a certain point should be assigned monitors to ensure that their lesson plans are at very least covering the skills necessary to be able to pass a GED.

There was a couple in the Shiny Happy People documentary that they featured who grew up homeschooled, but sent their children to public school and their eyes were opened and are still being opened about things that they learned incorrectly or did not learn very much like what you say.

 

[brockash]

Show me where I said I would throw my child out into the streets. I never once said that.

I said I would disown them. I would.

I said I would not support them, financially. True.

I said I would turn them into the authorities. Check.

I said I would not let the child back into my home after doing that to a sibling. I stand behind that. I would protect the victim at all costs.

In the end, these parents ended up in the same place I would in this hypothetical situation.

I'm not sure why it is so hard to accept that there are parents out there who would NOT support their child if they committed an evil act like this. The fact that there are parents who would protect, hide, or otherwise help their child avoid accountability with the law under these circumstances is disgusting to me. It's shameful. Just because you created a human doesn't mean that human can do no wrong.

Show me where I said I would throw my child out into the streets. I never once said that.

I said I would disown them. I would.

I said I would not support them, financially. True.

I said I would turn them into the authorities. Check.

I said I would not let the child back into my home after doing that to a sibling. I stand behind that. I would protect the victim at all costs.

In the end, these parents ended up in the same place I would in this hypothetical situation.

I'm not sure why it is so hard to accept that there are parents out there who would NOT support their child if they committed an evil act like this. The fact that there are parents who would protect, hide, or otherwise help their child avoid accountability with the law under these circumstances is disgusting to me. It's shameful. Just because you created a human doesn't mean that human can do no wrong.

Well if you say you'd disown them, they'd be dead to you and not welcome in your home....- I mean isn't that the same thing? I'm not sure how you could interpret that any differently.

AND you said this referring to the first sign that your minor child was inappropriate with another of your minor children. - This is very different than the story the pp explained where there was 6 years and an escalation of behavior that they were talking about.

I get it, this is not an easy thing to think about, but I was just explaining that if something like this ever happened to you or myself it's not nearly as cut and dry as you seemed to feel it should have been for Joshs parents.

 

[QueenIsabella]

The true victim in that case is the owner of the Domino's store. I hope he was able to get some type of compensation because his life would have never been the same. What a shame.

I'm a bit confused on the part where the court recommended that the child become a ward of the state so the parents could save themselves. Maybe the court deemed the parents unfit to provide appropriate care and treatment to what sounds like a child with major behavioral issues? I believe you that the rights were terminated, but the court almost never severs parental rights to outright benefit the parents. It's almost always about what is in the best interest of the child.

Those types of cases fascinate me; the nature vs nurture aspect. I'm assuming the other children were fairly normally behaved, so why did a middle child have such major behavioral issues?

I don't know that poster or the details of the case she talks about. But the judge may well have terminated parental rights in order to protect the other children in the home. Especially if the 15yo in question was showing signs of escalating violence. The parental "benefit" of not being legally obligated for his behavior would be secondary, in my thinking.