ROFR question

[MickeyFan612]

I did not understand the part of your post that i snipped so i answered the part i understood...


That is true, i got it for a good price because it was hard to sell a big contract and when it comes time for me to sell i will have a hard time selling it. But that is not the primary concern, having enough points at this time is... One thing i will never do again...three use years...all at the same home resort. Famous last words... How Hard Can It Be.... It is working for us because we go twice a year but it is a lot of work keeping everything straight.

The contract I'm looking at is also large... I'm wishing now I would have held off on it since the 2010 points don't look to be that great a value. Owners weren't willing to budge I hope when it comes time to sell the market/economy rebounds some. Three different use years would be difficult. Do you have three different member I'd cards? Maybe I should have considered use years more. Right now I only own 200 at
SSR. Waiting on new contracts to be approved but looks like I will be in same boat very soon

 

[silmarg]

And at SSR & AKV I would never ever pay more to pass rofr cause they will never ever be taken back with ROFR. DVD gets enough people defaulting on their loans/MF to keep them in all the points they need.

I was ROFRd at SSR twice in a row about two years ago at $65 (160 pt contracts Aug UY)! I ended up passing at $67.

In the next 12 months I will prob buy another 160 for the same use year (prob SSR, maybe AKL), but I it will be low ball city for me.... and see what sticks.

 

[Dean]

What is the RCI deposit and how does it work?
Trying to learn all my options. Thanks

Basically you would deposit likely either 160 or 270 points into RCI for a possible timeshare exchange later or possibly multiple since you said "large" contract. Generally a risky and/or low value move but if it gives you a 2 year potential extension to get some use for the points, that could be a good choice in this situation. If you decide to go this route either post back or email me directly and I can give you some tips on how and what to do. As I understand it, you'll need to be roughly 2 months ahead of the expiration of the points to get the most value but even if you're only about a month, you could still get some value. How many points are we talking about here? With a Dec UY, you should have enough time to get it closed and get this done though you likely wont' have any extra. You should have all your investigation done and be ready to move when the account is in your name and functional.

 

[MickeyFan612]

Basically you would deposit likely either 160 or 270 points into RCI for a possible timeshare exchange later or possibly multiple since you said "large" contract. Generally a risky and/or low value move but if it gives you a 2 year potential extension to get some use for the points, that could be a good choice in this situation. If you decide to go this route either post back or email me directly and I can give you some tips on how and what to do. As I understand it, you'll need to be roughly 2 months ahead of the expiration of the points to get the most value but even if you're only about a month, you could still get some value. How many points are we talking about here? With a Dec UY, you should have enough time to get it closed and get this done though you likely wont' have any extra. You should have all your investigation done and be ready to move when the account is in your name and functional.

Wow just noticed you have been a memeber here since 1999! Good for you I appreciate all the advice and I may need to take you up on your offer for more as the time approaches. Right now I'm just reading and trying to gather as much info as possible. The details on the contract that I'm still waiting on from other party to sign are:

SSR Springs 415
60/pp
dec use year
415 pts 2010, 415 pts 2011, 415 pts 2012 maint all paid buy seller
I pay closing

I paid more for point in hopes of renting the 2010 points so I hope I'm able to do something with them!

 

[Dean]

Wow just noticed you have been a memeber here since 1999! Good for you I appreciate all the advice and I may need to take you up on your offer for more as the time approaches. Right now I'm just reading and trying to gather as much info as possible. The details on the contract that I'm still waiting on from other party to sign are:

SSR Springs 415
60/pp
dec use year
415 pts 2010, 415 pts 2011, 415 pts 2012 maint all paid buy seller
I pay closing

I paid more for point in hopes of renting the 2010 points so I hope I'm able to do something with them!

I've been a member longer, early on they had to reset everything so everyone had to rejoin.

Sounds reasonable. Since you're waiting on a contract to be signed, I hope it goes through. Do realize that in 2013, you'll still be paying for 11 months of the 2012 points. Best case scenario you'll be in the system early to mid Sept. That'll give you at most about 2 & 3/4 months to either reserve, rent and complete the trips OR to deposit. I'd suggest you make a decision and have a plan as soon as your points are available in your account. What's best depends on your goals. If it's to rent and reduce your costs, I'd suggest you try to get reservations as late in Nov as possible then offer them for rent. I would suggest you not wait until you have a renter to try to make reservations though you could always cancel what you have and reserve something else if you needed to.

If your goal is to get use of the points and assuming you can't use them yourself (DVC, CC, DCL or BVTC), an RCI deposit will give you an additional 2 years to both reserve and travel. Just call DVC and tell them you want to deposit first. I'd suggest you do a 1 BR HIGH season (160 pts) and a 2 BR HIGH season (270 pts). That's a total of 430 pts, using only 15 regular points (assuming the 2011 points have been banked to 2012, if not the same principles apply but you may want to consider a combination option. If you decide on deposit first, make sure you have a plan on how to use them (be realistic) and go ahead and put in your requests ASAP. I'd strongly recommend against the temptation to deposit a lower season for less points.

 

[ELMC]

Wow just noticed you have been a memeber here since 1999! Good for you I appreciate all the advice and I may need to take you up on your offer for more as the time approaches. Right now I'm just reading and trying to gather as much info as possible. The details on the contract that I'm still waiting on from other party to sign are:

SSR Springs 415
60/pp
dec use year
415 pts 2010, 415 pts 2011, 415 pts 2012 maint all paid buy seller
I pay closing

I paid more for point in hopes of renting the 2010 points so I hope I'm able to do something with them!

I can't speak about availability, because you never know with F&W and the holidays approaching during that time. But assuming there is availability, you should have no problem renting out your 2010 points in a day or so if you price them right ($7-9) per point. Good luck!

 

[cz4ever]

Wow just noticed you have been a memeber here since 1999! Good for you I appreciate all the advice and I may need to take you up on your offer for more as the time approaches. Right now I'm just reading and trying to gather as much info as possible. The details on the contract that I'm still waiting on from other party to sign are:

SSR Springs 415
60/pp
dec use year
415 pts 2010, 415 pts 2011, 415 pts 2012 maint all paid buy seller
I pay closing

I paid more for point in hopes of renting the 2010 points so I hope I'm able to do something with them!

I was wondering if somebody from these boards was the one who finally jumped on that contract -- it sat out there for a little while with very attractive pricing... if you can rent out those points. Seems like you should be able to, perhaps at a discount. Good luck with ROFR!

 

[MickeyFan612]

I've been a member longer, early on they had to reset everything so everyone had to rejoin.

Sounds reasonable. Since you're waiting on a contract to be signed, I hope it goes through. Do realize that in 2013, you'll still be paying for 11 months of the 2012 points. Best case scenario you'll be in the system early to mid Sept. That'll give you at most about 2 & 3/4 months to either reserve, rent and complete the trips OR to deposit. I'd suggest you make a decision and have a plan as soon as your points are available in your account. What's best depends on your goals. If it's to rent and reduce your costs, I'd suggest you try to get reservations as late in Nov as possible then offer them for rent. I would suggest you not wait until you have a renter to try to make reservations though you could always cancel what you have and reserve something else if you needed to.

If your goal is to get use of the points and assuming you can't use them yourself (DVC, CC, DCL or BVTC), an RCI deposit will give you an additional 2 years to both reserve and travel. Just call DVC and tell them you want to deposit first. I'd suggest you do a 1 BR HIGH season (160 pts) and a 2 BR HIGH season (270 pts). That's a total of 430 pts, using only 15 regular points (assuming the 2011 points have been banked to 2012, if not the same principles apply but you may want to consider a combination option. If you decide on deposit first, make sure you have a plan on how to use them (be realistic) and go ahead and put in your requests ASAP. I'd strongly recommend against the temptation to deposit a lower season for less points.

Ok you confused me when you said I'd be paying for 11 months of 2012 points. Aren't I technically paying my 2013 maint fees? Just making payments ahead. Is everyone's fees due at beginning of year unless you set up for monthly payment option? I currently pay on lump some but was thinking of doing the payments option. Any advice here would help!

I was wandering if I should try to make the reservation or rent points first. You made a good point. Better to secure any reservation. Thanks
As far as the RCI deposit...I hope that is my last resort. Sounds like it will depend on how fast things move along!

 

[MickeyFan612]

I can't speak about availability, because you never know with F&W and the holidays approaching during that time. But assuming there is availability, you should have no problem renting out your 2010 points in a day or so if you price them right ($7-9) per point. Good luck!

I sure hope you are right

 

[MickeyFan612]

I was wondering if somebody from these boards was the one who finally jumped on that contract -- it sat out there for a little while with very attractive pricing... if you can rent out those points. Seems like you should be able to, perhaps at a discount. Good luck with ROFR!

Yeah I was a little leary cause soo many points...I hope it works out! Thanks for the luck!

 

[Dean]

Ok you confused me when you said I'd be paying for 11 months of 2012 points. Aren't I technically paying my 2013 maint fees? Just making payments ahead. Is everyone's fees due at beginning of year unless you set up for monthly payment option? I currently pay on lump some but was thinking of doing the payments option. Any advice here would help!

I was wandering if I should try to make the reservation or rent points first. You made a good point. Better to secure any reservation. Thanks
As far as the RCI deposit...I hope that is my last resort. Sounds like it will depend on how fast things move along!

Maint fees are paid on a calendar year basis, not a UY basis, you're simply paying ahead for the calendar year (11 months of 1 UY and 1 mo of the other for Dec). Unfortunately, the major resale companies do the "you get the points, you pay the dues" approach which is simply wrong but does make it simpler for them. Think of it as if you were only getting the 2012 points and nothing else. If you bought such from DVC directly, you'd pay only 1 month of dues (Dec) and that would be the proper maint fee if it were resale as well. In your case it's not a biggie since you are getting a lot of extra points but it does affect your bottom line price by about $5 a point.

Realize you may not have workable reservation options for rental or usage so you should at least make some basic plans and decisions regarding deposit first for RCI or usage for other options. You didn't say if the 2011 points had been banked, I'm assuming they have. If not, there's some additional info you may need.

 

[cz4ever]

Maint fees are paid on a calendar year basis, not a UY basis, you're simply paying ahead for the calendar year (11 months of 1 UY and 1 mo of the other for Dec). Unfortunately, the major resale companies do the "you get the points, you pay the dues" approach which is simply wrong but does make it simpler for them. Think of it as if you were only getting the 2012 points and nothing else. If you bought such from DVC directly, you'd pay only 1 month of dues (Dec) and that would be the proper maint fee if it were resale as well. In your case it's not a biggie since you are getting a lot of extra points but it does affect your bottom line price by about $5 a point.

Like any real estate negotiation, the buyer can negotiate how maintenance fees are handled (e.g., buyer pays 100%, seller pays 100%, or some in between where buyer pay proportional to how much of the year is remaining). Personally, I think the latter makes the least sense -- is a two-month old point worth more or less than a newborn point? Do any of the brokerages require it be handled a particular way, e.g., TTS's website states simply that the buyer pays MF on bundled points. Do they enforce this or can buyer's specify otherwise in their offers?

Realize you may not have workable reservation options for rental or usage so you should at least make some basic plans and decisions regarding deposit first for RCI or usage for other options. You didn't say if the 2011 points had been banked, I'm assuming they have. If not, there's some additional info you may need.

Are DVC properties close to 100% booked at the two-month mark in late Fall? I'm surprised there's so much concern about being able to rent them with two months before they expire. Obviously you can't ask top dollar, but is an RCI likely to be a better option than a discounted cash rental (e.g., $8-$10)? I'm seriously wondering, since I might be in the exact same spot come late September!

 

[DougEMG]

Like any real estate negotiation, the buyer can negotiate how maintenance fees are handled (e.g., buyer pays 100%, seller pays 100%, or some in between where buyer pay proportional to how much of the year is remaining). Personally, I think the latter makes the least sense -- is a two-month old point worth more or less than a newborn point? Do any of the brokerages require it be handled a particular way, e.g., TTS's website states simply that the buyer pays MF on bundled points. Do they enforce this or can buyer's specify otherwise in their offers?

No broker that I know of requires that MF be paid for in a particular way. The only requirement is for the buyer and seller to agree on the terms.

Are DVC properties close to 100% booked at the two-month mark in late Fall? I'm surprised there's so much concern about being able to rent them with two months before they expire. Obviously you can't ask top dollar, but is an RCI likely to be a better option than a discounted cash rental (e.g., $8-$10)? I'm seriously wondering, since I might be in the exact same spot come late September!

Yes, having only two months to rent out points going into the fall is not good. The points are definitely worth less than normal as there is only limited availablility.

 

[cz4ever]

Yes, having only two months to rent out points going into the fall is not good. The points are definitely worth less than normal as there is only limited availability.

Thanks. The question I wonder about is how "not good" is "not good". $6/pt? $8? $10? I'll be in the same boat if my contracts end up closing (awaiting seller signatures so I haven't posted to ROFR thread). OP and I will have to hope that there's still some decent value in Dec UY points come late September.

 

[ELMC]

Thanks. The question I wonder about is how "not good" is "not good". $6/pt? $8? $10? I'll be in the same boat if my contracts end up closing (awaiting seller signatures so I haven't posted to ROFR thread). OP and I will have to hope that there's still some decent value in Dec UY points come late September.

There will almost certainly be demand for points during that time, but availability will be tight. I would say that you should be able to get $8-9 a point, but having availability on the dates that your renters would want will be the challenge. Typically you can usually count on Saratoga Springs to have availability. My guess is that you will be fine. Good luck!

 

[MickeyFan612]

Maint fees are paid on a calendar year basis, not a UY basis, you're simply paying ahead for the calendar year (11 months of 1 UY and 1 mo of the other for Dec). Unfortunately, the major resale companies do the "you get the points, you pay the dues" approach which is simply wrong but does make it simpler for them. Think of it as if you were only getting the 2012 points and nothing else. If you bought such from DVC directly, you'd pay only 1 month of dues (Dec) and that would be the proper maint fee if it were resale as well. In your case it's not a biggie since you are getting a lot of extra points but it does affect your bottom line price by about $5 a point.

Realize you may not have workable reservation options for rental or usage so you should at least make some basic plans and decisions regarding deposit first for RCI or usage for other options. You didn't say if the 2011 points had been banked, I'm assuming they have. If not, there's some additional info you may need.

Okay I got a better understanding..I am getting three years of points with maint fees paid on all of them and will not owe any until 2013. I'm guessing that is why there is no jan use years? They want a month to get due notices out to everyone before any use years begins? I'm so glad you brought up whether my 2011 points were banked or not. I spent a good part of the day working on getting it straightened out. Turns out I only have til the end of this month to get seller to bank them. So you can imagine how panicked I am thinking I may have 830 points to rent, in only 2 months, during Disney's busier times. She seems to think seller will have no issue with banking them so we'll see. Thanks a bunch...I think you just kept a couple years on my life!

 

[MickeyFan612]

Thanks. The question I wonder about is how "not good" is "not good". $6/pt? $8? $10? I'll be in the same boat if my contracts end up closing (awaiting seller signatures so I haven't posted to ROFR thread). OP and I will have to hope that there's still some decent value in Dec UY points come late September.

How many points will you have to rent? I'm hoping I close end of August but that may be wishful thinking. Did they tell you for certain late September? I noticed on the Time Share Store that many listings list the closing dates in their adds. Do you have any idea why the dates listed are all so different and how they come up with those dates?

 

[cz4ever]

Okay I got a better understanding..I am getting three years of points with maint fees paid on all of them and will not owe any until 2013. I'm guessing that is why there is no jan use years? They want a month to get due notices out to everyone before any use years begins? I'm so glad you brought up whether my 2011 points were banked or not. I spent a good part of the day working on getting it straightened out. Turns out I only have til the end of this month to get seller to bank them. So you can imagine how panicked I am thinking I may have 830 points to rent, in only 2 months, during Disney's busier times. She seems to think seller will have no issue with banking them so we'll see. Thanks a bunch...I think you just kept a couple years on my life!

Whoa - I'm glad to hear you caught that! My broker told the Sellers to bank even before I asked. In fact, it's written into the contracts -- you should request the same, if the contracts aren't already signed. It shouldn't be a problem --- presumably anybody selling a contract with three years worth of points, including one year with a very short fuse, is not willing/able to rent points, so they are likely very relieved to have you taking the contract off their hands.

 

[cz4ever]

How many points will you have to rent?

I believe the non-technical term is "a crap ton". Things are not signed, so I'll leave it at that for now.

I'm hoping I close end of August but that may be wishful thinking. Did they tell you for certain late September? I noticed on the Time Share Store that many listings list the closing dates in their adds. Do you have any idea why the dates listed are all so different and how they come up with those dates?

Nothing is for certain. The contract verbiage has a 90-day "null and void" trigger, but I was told that two months was more typical, which seems to match what people here are reporting. I can only speculate about why there's so much variance --- Disney taking variable amounts of time for ROFR, non-responsive sellers (getting in the final paperwork), ...

 

[cz4ever]

There will almost certainly be demand for points during that time, but availability will be tight. I would say that you should be able to get $8-9 a point, but having availability on the dates that your renters would want will be the challenge. Typically you can usually count on Saratoga Springs to have availability. My guess is that you will be fine. Good luck!

Thanks, I hope you're right.

Now time to go find (and customize) a good rental contract. Any of y'all willing to share? PM if so, please. (Yes, I realize there's one stickied here or on MO.)