RESALE POLICY CHANGE!

[DebbieB]

Member Activities in DVC Dues as per DVC Mike's thread:

Member Activities - Cost of recreation operations, certain Member activities and events at the Resort. Cost of quarterly Member newsletter, annual Association meetings and printing and postage for Association legal mailings.

I think they would have to define what is covered there if they are charging the new resale buyers the same dues. I don't see how they could be legally excluded. Community Hall? One article mentioned DVD rentals still included, which would make sense. Plus they are going to send the member newsletter, with details of exciting perks? But not for you....

I only have direct points purchased in 1999 so it doesn't affect me other than if I try to sell it. But it just doesn't sit well with me. Those points were originally bought direct, it's not like they could have been purchased anywhere else. DVC got their money to cover construction costs. Their cost to manage the points is the same if I am using them or someone I sold them to. They are paying the same annual dues. They should have given warning to allow those contemplating an offer a chance to finalize it, like they did in 2011.

How does this work?
I passed ROFR at the end of Feb, but the seller can not close until the end of May. Is this Grandfathered in?
I do have a direct contract, so currently it does not matter, but in the event that I need or want to sell that one in the future it would be nice to know I am still eligable.

You are grandfathered in because it was submitted for ROFR before today.

Update - may no longer be true

 

[MinnieB]

I feel bad for the people who reached an agreement over the past few days and it was going to be submitted to ROFR today- those are the people who all of a sudden aren't getting what they thought they would, and might be thinking about backing out (if they are allowed to at that point I don't know the rules).

Last Thursday I found out that my contract had been taken by Disney on day 29 of ROFR. Today my broker was ready to submit an accepted offer on a new contract to ROFR and I backed out (Florida law provides 10 days to rescind). The major factor was that losing the AP discount changed the value proposition significantly.

There was also suddenly a lot of uncertainty around the program and the possibility for future changes that made me uncomfortable. As others have noted, this exists for both resale and direct. I don't like trying to assess value without clear contractual terms (even the uncertainty on MF increases, which are not capped, makes me nervous).

It was fun to take a stab at DVC ownership, but all things happen for a reason. This really feels like it wasn't meant to be given the timing and double bad stroke of luck.

We've stayed onsite many many times by booking on the Disney website and will consider renting points in the future as another option (assuming that option remains). For the tens of thousands of dollars we are saving in point costs and MFs, it seems likely that we will still have plenty of fun vacations ahead. Perhaps we'll even consider some non Disney locations (gasp!) for our next big trip.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Last Thursday I found out that my contract had been taken by Disney on day 29 of ROFR. Today my broker was ready to submit an accepted offer on a new contract to ROFR and I backed out (Florida law provides 10 days to rescind). The major factor was that losing the AP discount changed the value proposition significantly.

There was also suddenly a lot of uncertainty around the program and the possibility for future changes that made me uncomfortable. As others have noted, this exists for both resale and direct. I don't like trying to assess value without clear contractual terms (even the uncertainty on MF increases, which are not capped, makes me nervous).

It was fun to take a stab at DVC ownership, but all things happen for a reason. This really feels like it wasn't meant to be given the timing and double bad stroke of luck.

We've stayed onsite many many times by booking on the Disney website and will consider renting points in the future as another option (assuming that option remains). For the tens of thousands of dollars we are saving in point costs and MFs, it seems likely that we will still have plenty of fun vacations ahead. Perhaps we'll even consider some non Disney locations (gasp!) for our next big trip.

This demonstrates resale purchase does not necessarily mean a lost direct purchase. The decision can be to skip it completely. If we were looking now we would definitely not purchase direct and possibly not resale either. I'm not feeling a lot of trust in DVC, nor it's parent company actually, and what they all might decide is necessary next.

 

[DougEMG]

The major perk that we like the most is the annual pass discount, that saves us $300 a year. Everything else is just peanuts as far as perks go. So resale prices would have to go up a lot more to make it worth while to buy direct. Now one perk that I could see effecting people's decision to buy direct over resale is if they ever gave extra FP+ passes to direct purchasers. Say 3 more per person per day and that might convince a lot of people to go direct, I know it would tempt me.

 

[carlbarry]

Watching.

 

[gharter]

It has been interesting to read this thread. I am a new member to DVC having just finished the process last month. I am not sure that he changes they made would have had any impact on my decision to purchase.

1. Currently we will not be staying more than 7 days a year, so the AP is not an issue. I understand those who would use this being upset. I suspect they have data to show most don't use this or its not important to them.
2. Most of the other perks that are being taken from future "new purchasers by resale" will have minimal impact on sales. Will I choose not to buy because I can't go to a lounge? I don't pay for that with airlines now.
3. I realize I was fortunate to get my purchase through before the changes went into effect. Seriously, I don't believe I would have decided not to buy had the changes been enacted earlier.
4. In 6 months, everyone will have forgotten the change. I realy don't care about the changes the occurred in 2011. I know they are there, but I doubt I would have used them, and that's not the rules I bought under.
5. Until the price of resale comes close to direct purchase through Disney, I am happy to pay thousands less and maybe miss a few perks that I may or may not use.
6. I have mixed feelings: As a Disney stockholder, I am for whatever increases the stock price (I assume they believe this will). As a DVC member, I want the greatest number of perks for me.

 

[sgtdisney]

I think people need to keep in mind one thing. As Disney removes this member perk from resale buyers, it's not a far stretch to assume that at some point the benefits may go away all together. If there comes a point where DVC stops selling new DVC units, or maybe even moves onto a DVC II type of program there would not be a good reason to have these sales tools. Just a thought. If anyone is buying direct now, I wouldn't assume you will have these benefits from now until the end of the contract. Nothing is given except the real estate interest on the contract. This is just my opinion. These changes have no impact on me directly, but it still seems like they are creating two ownership classes.

 

[ParkHoppers]

It has been interesting to read this thread. I am a new member to DVC having just finished the process last month. I am not sure that he changes they made would have had any impact on my decision to purchase.

1. Currently we will not be staying more than 7 days a year, so the AP is not an issue. I understand those who would use this being upset. I suspect they have data to show most don't use this or its not important to them..

We also currently are at Disney once a year for about a week. Park tickets with park hopper for two people are around $900. AP gold is $550. Our next trip is in December and we will get our AP right before we go. The following season we go in November allowing us to use the same AP for two trips 11 months apart Which is savings of $175 per person each trip on tickets alone. 10-15% on things you buy and eat is a smaller number but let's call it $25 per person each trip. $200 per person each trip. So you might want to think about the AP for your needs.The more I think about it the perks being restricted are pretty darn good.

 

[Lorilais_mommie]

I guess it's all perspective.. I bought my contracts resale, and I like the free soda. So I'm quite glad it's not retroactive..

1st thing... Where is everyone getting free soda???? Completely missed that perk!:

Moving on..
Hubby and I bought in a couple years ago.. Knowing that "perks" could be taken away at anytime. We made sure not to let that influence our purchase..

Even tho perks didnt effect our reasons for buying our contacts (2 direct, 1 resale).
I could see AP/ ticket discounts being a huge sale pitch factor for guides.. After all It was the 1st "perk" we used when we bought in!
We stockpiled AP vouchers (thank you DIS!) and with how the prices of AP sky rocketing over the last few years.
When you have to buy 4 APs it adds up and we saved some serious $$$$..

However I wouldn't add the AP discount perk into your purchase decision.
Unless you really can stockpile AP right away and getting the non expiring vouchers in hand ASAP.
And even then I would only add the price differance between the discounted one and full priced one

Right now that's gold AP VS. Platuim you would have bought. Currently it's about $200 per pass (figuring you can live with the black out dates)

 

[bumbershoot]

Spiteful is how I referred to the restriction from the Member cruise back in 2011 and this just builds on that.

I agree.

And it doesn't change my life, because we bought direct, but I still feel very uncomfortable about this.

Again, I know my info is SOLID! What these people put up, well I wouldn't bet on it

On message boards, time means something. It means we know people, we know where they are coming from and what their background is or seems to be. It's very very hard to convince a group of people who have known each other, even online, for a matter of years, that a brand new person has info worth listening to. It's especially hard when the person is yelling at us and being insulting.

I'm sure that making sure database flags work for member card card issuance will go smoothly, given Disney's world-class, best-in-class IT systems that they are so well known for.

Bwa ha ha ha.

Do DVC members get a discount on the TiW card?

Yes. AP and DVC holders get a discount on it (letting DVC members buy it is a relatively new thing). FL residents can buy it but get no discount. And that's the short list of the people who get to buy TIW.

Maybe this will send retail prices back down, so I can buy even more on resale?

Hope you never are on the side of selling...

You just started posting overnight and have posted over 40 comments, all on this subject, all in favor of DVD.

It seems as if you have a bias, and you don't have the history with us to put that bias into perspective.

Is there really a difference between a member booking 3 nights and a member renting for 3 nights. I would think that there are many members who only do short trips. Those with annual passes that only like to visit for a few days during the week. So to me rentals are a non issue.

Agreed.

The only stay on our points in the last year was 3 nights for Princess, then 2 further nights booked last minute b/c I didn't wanna go home yet. (note: I didn't step foot in the parks. I went to Universal. With the AP I keep for Uni.)

I do not consider this a change anyone should be happy with. Every member may someday be a seller and this lowers the resale value, and thus every member is impacted negatively.

Agreed.

With that verbiage why not sell your membership. No different than buying a meal from McDonald's

What on earth does that mean?

It is becoming almost amusing that there's so much gnashing of teeth here when virtually everyone howling is NOT impacted by the new rules for resales going forward. If you already own, you are NOT impacted by the new stuff.

What's the point? We are allowed to feel negative about something even if it isn't yet impacting our lives.

I have a W/L right now that has been in place for months because I have a "hole" in the middle of my November rez.

I do hope you're checking for that night every single day? Please don't rely on the wait list. Check manually every day.

b. You're assuming that more people want full week stays than partial week stays. I have no idea why you believe that.

Same here.

3 nights last Feb. 4 nights upcoming Feb. That's our use of our membership for '16 and '17!

I heard the same thing. But everyone seemed so sure that it was just a rumor.

Guess it wasn't.

There are ALWAYS rumors. When I bought in '09 I'm quite sure there were rumors. I'm sure our guide whispered of changes. They always seem to be whispering about something.

It's also good business to treat your customers like you value them. That's especially true with Disney, a brand associated with treating its customers magically. I suppose that's just legacy now.

Agreed x 3.

My concerns aren't just if I'm affected but what it demonstrates about the thoughts of those in control of something I own.

Yep!

It's really the same way they saw us the day after we signed on the dotted line.

Sure, but at least they weren't being obvious about it.

Another comment - if you part of your reasoning for buying DVC is the value that you get when you sell it, I don't think you are doing it right.

But that's one of the things that's attractive; that ROFR keeps things solid for if we have to sell.

I wonder if they might be more careful with how they pitch buying into DVC. There is a big difference between your real estate ownership and the "magic" that they market it with.

Yep. Hope so.

Actually anyone with an Annual Pass can buy the Tables in Wonderland card.

But not all DVC people have APs.

when we bought, the perks were nice but knew they were not guaranteed. so no big deal here either way. they could take all perks away, even for direct purchases and we wouldn't care.

I honestly wish they would just do it across the board, rather than piecemeal and by making different levels of membership. If they did that, it WOULD impact me. And I'd rather have that than this nonsense.

Sigh...and I'm always telling people to stop giving Disney awful ideas, but here I am, doing just that. Sorry.

Also, this doesn't affect us West Coast people too much because we pretty much do not get member perks out here anyway. $10 saved on an annual pass is pretty much nothing. There really aren't any other special events outside the member breakfast. Most west coasters have an annual pass so already get the discounts. So the Disneylanders aren't affected too much.

West Coasters who use their DVC at Disneyland, is who you're referring to. Not all WC'ers.

Because I'm on the west and I don't like the Grand and specifically did NOT buy there. I will happily stay at HoJo before staying at the Grand!

I wish they'd rethink the products they are offering and consider the impact that has on sales rather than the punish resale buyers reaction we are seeing w/ this move.

YES.

But they seem to excel in punishment nowadays.

1st thing... Where is everyone getting free soda???? Completely missed that perk!:

I think they are referring to the member lounge(s) being created.

 

[ScubaCat]

What a wonderful way for Disney to help us all celebrate the grand 25th anniversary of DVC.
Nothing says celebrate like taking perks away from perspective DVC owners.

I'm just glad they used fancy 25th anniversary letterhead to inform us of this "very positive step". Anything on such pretty stationary has to be good, right? If only we were smart enough to realize it's true meaning...

Hooray for the very positive step!

 

[pmaurer74]

The major perk that we like the most is the annual pass discount, that saves us $300 a year. Everything else is just peanuts as far as perks go. So resale prices would have to go up a lot more to make it worth while to buy direct. Now one perk that I could see effecting people's decision to buy direct over resale is if they ever gave extra FP+ passes to direct purchasers. Say 3 more per person per day and that might convince a lot of people to go direct, I know it would tempt me.

I can see your point but I think one thing this is teaching me is that any of these perks can be taken away at anytime. If you got extra Fps one year, next year you may not.

 

[kenspidey]

Having slept on it I have to say I believe this will have a significant impact on resales at least in the short term. I know I wouldn't of purchased. I mean Disney is in the business of selling Magic and this all seems not very magical ...3 classes of members ... And realtors are now going to have to answer the question: "Are we treated any differently" with an emphatic YES.

 

[dsdeleon]

This hit me hard yesterday as we are in the offer stage since we finally sold a property last week to have the cash. But after sleeping on it and breaking the news to the kids that it isn't going to happen they seemed more concerned about not being able to rent points anymore soon. DVC members renting points is a huge gap in Disney's plan to maximize every nickel and I am concerned now too. With the tiered changes around school schedules, hard ticketed everything and the 2nd class membership thing, I really can't spare the emotions anymore on Disney. The way this makes me feel 'disappointed' should only be reserved for family members and like real human beings, not some huge company with profits in mind.

 

[skier_pete]

This hit me hard yesterday as we are in the offer stage since we finally sold a property last week to have the cash. But after sleeping on it and breaking the news to the kids that it isn't going to happen they seemed more concerned about not being able to rent points anymore soon. DVC members renting points is a huge gap in Disney's plan to maximize every nickel and I am concerned now too. With the tiered changes around school schedules, hard ticketed everything and the 2nd class membership thing, I really can't spare the emotions anymore on Disney. The way this makes me feel 'disappointed' should only be reserved for family members and like real human beings, not some huge company with profits in mind.

I'm sorry you got the short end of the stick on this one.

See - THIS is why I think that it will make a difference on resales. People will look at resale and see that these perks are missing - so they'll have a harder time justifying the price. The result is less people will be buying resale, while the people selling will still be there. The prices will have to back off somewhat, and when they back off enough - people will still justify the cheaper prices of resale.

As I said, I think it will hit the higher price resorts harder. Spending $120 per point at Bay Lake Tower versus $165 or whatever through Disney, more people will want to keep those points. Resorts like OKW and SSR might not drop as much only because there is already such a price disparity - however, if the more expensive properties drop, this will lead to the others backing down as well.

Long-term it won't matter, but I suspect in the short term (1-2 years) it will. Beyond that the loss of the perk will be built into the price, and it will be back to flucuating with the economy.

I'll be watching closely. Those of us that already have contracts and would like more may be the beneficiaries here, as prices dropping helps us significantly. I would LOVE to purchase more points but realistically am 2-3 years away. However, if we saw a $20 roll-back in prices over the next 6 months, I think I might find a way to do it.

 

[PBB]

What is really being discounted in this type of punitive action is the Goodwill that exists or existed between Disney/DVC and its' "Best Customers"...........

In this policy change, DVC has just told their entire membership that it has taken 25 years to create that the marketing of our new product is more important than the value of your personal asset. I take that back. DVC isn't telling just the entire membership. It is telling the entire membership and every potential member that DVC Marketing is more important

Many of us were not interested in timeshares.........Disney marketed DVC by taking the worse parts of timeshares, changing them in unique way tha made it better. For example, instead of going to a specific size unit on a certain week every year the point system allowing flexibility in accommodation size, length of stay,time of year was created. The closing argument for this new type of timeshare program was simple........We're Disney and you can trust that we are going to keep the high standards in place for the entire length of your contract. Also, a selling point was that if you have to sell your membership for whatever reason your equity would be safer because you purchasing from Disney.

We have been members since 98. The first 6-7 years if someone asked, Would you recommend DVC, our response would have been ""Absolutely". The Jim Lewis regime came into power and started to erode our response of absolutely. The extension of the OKW contracts were handled in such a heavy handed way by DVC that was the downward spiral. The last change that people who bought a DVC Resale could not use their points on the RCI exchange never made sense because people bought into DVC because they wanted to go to WDW not Branson,MO.

Disney's Survey Team and Market Studies have allowed Disney to alter market their product to keep the customer on site and maximize their spending at WDW. They used to have a 3 day pass. Disney figured out that people would vacation 4 days on average. They would buy a 3 day pass go to MK and EPCOT then they would go to Sea World Busch Gardens or Universal. Disney stopped offering the 3 day pass and built Living Seas, Animal Kingdom and MGM. This was all done to thwart competition.

We are no longer Members or even "Best Customers". We are now officially "The Competition". If DVC is going to treat future members who purchased via resale as 2nd Class Citizens and current Members as Competition then DiVC no longer has any Goodwill. To bad, DVC didn't consider offering free passes until 2020 to market their overpriced new inventory instead of alienating their membership. Maybe, it would have generated 400 post in a day that I want to buy new inventory vs how DVC has screwed us over!

 

[carlbarry]

I was thinking of the benefits that this might cover, and tell me if I'm wrong: use of free laundry, Top of the World visits, Merry Member Mixer, pool hopping. Hey, maybe DVC will cut out the "free" supplies in the rooms, too.

 

[maburke]

The last change that people who bought a DVC Resale could not use their points on the RCI exchange never made sense because people bought into DVC because they wanted to go to WDW not Branson,MO.

Just to avoid confusion, it was the Disney Collection (including cruises) that was taken away from resale buyers in 2011, not RCI exchanges.

 

[jimim]

Near the end of the notification it states:

So it sounds like the new Member Lounge at Epcot is considered a "Membership Extra". Are they really going to verify how and when a family purchased DVC before admitting them into the new lounge and turn people away if they own only resale contracts purchased after April 4, 2016?

mark our member cards with a big red "r" to show we are the lowly resale people.

I can care less about most member perks. all I want is my discount on my season pass and my discount for the tables card. that helps for our multiple trips and how eat. a lounge or pin or something else I can care less about.

but I agree only way to know who is resale and who isn't is by giving out diff member cards.

jim

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I wonder how many DVCers use APs. The ones buying 100 points to bank/borrow to go every 2-3 years certainly aren't.