Renting Points

[paslea_pooh]

I'm not sure if this is the place to post this, but I just recently rented my points out. First renter, a family that had never rented before. Second family ,were frequent renters... Both renters have been on the Disboards enough that I was able to check them out. One of the renters asked *kindly* if I was willing to go to $9. I said that I couldn't. After all I'm using my rental money to go on vacation this year. We went to WDW twice last year and want to do a huge family vacation in Dec 2007. So we don't need our points this year. This person was wonderful. Never asked again for reduced points. He even had an offer for $9 and still rented from me. I checked availability , both families were on board and I made ressies.

Frequent emails , phone calls with one of the renters. I gave my phone number to the frequent renter, but she felt comfortable enough. I know that we won't rent our points Every year. I rented them this year b/c we KNEW we weren't going to WDW this year. When my DH and I bought into DVC we bought into it b/c we wanted guaranteed vacations. All this talk about dues and what dues will cost in the next 40 years and blah , blah, blah!!

My DH and I were not the greatest planners when it came to our vacations in the past. If we didn't invest in DVC that money would have been spent on something else. I know people are talking about value of money if you were to invest it into a CD, but we wouldn't have done that... we probably would have spent it. For us this is a pre-paid vacation.

If you want to rent your points for $9, then do it, there will be renters for you. If you want to rent your points for $10,then do it, there will be renters for you. If you want to rent your points for $11, then do it.... there will be renters for you.


Do what feels comfortable for you and your family.

Regardless, YOU OWN YOUR POINTS !!! Do whatever is right for you!

DVC is a pre-paid vacation at BEST....Not an investment..... We are hoping to share it with our girls and their families (when they have families)... and that is why we bought in. For anyone who bought into DVC to make a profit, I don't think they'll make it.

All this debating is silly... Don't feel grumpy if you have a difficult renter... Just don't rent to them. In the end the most control Belongs to the DVC Member.... Remember , we can bank our points and of course give them away to family....I'm sure they are willing to take them off our hands.

We're just happy to belong to DVC, it's all Goooooood !!!!!

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

I posted this on another thread, but it is applicable here:

Rental rates are low, especially here on the DIS because many DVCers simply don't care about the value of what they are offering. It's not that they couldn't get more for what they are selling. They figure if they don't dump them for $10 or less, they will never sell them, and the fret-factor kicks in. DIS board policy encourages the selling of points and not exsisting reservations, this helps keep point costs down because you are selling an unknown. Since you don't know the time of year or resort, a fiscal comparision can't be drawn between the reservation your selling and what a buyer could get the same reservation though CRO.

The smaller resorts should definetly sell for more, but if your selling points, you have no idea whether the reservation will be at SSR or BCV.

 

[rogerram]

If you want to rent your points for $9, then do it, there will be renters for you. If you want to rent your points for $10,then do it, there will be renters for you. If you want to rent your points for $11, then do it.... there will be renters for you.


Do what feels comfortable for you and your family.

Regardless, YOU OWN YOUR POINTS !!! Do whatever is right for you!

exactly right. You can set rates for whatever you like. No one is going to push me into any price because they think my rate is too low. They don't pay my dues or loan payments. I can do whatever I feel like doing. I own the points.

 

[browniemtb]

The thing you aref orgetting is that most "deluxe" rack paying customers are paying for a room, not a villa ,and that is much less per week. I'm just saying that if all the All star -two room familys "stay there" as you put it, people who are in need of renting out their points are gonna have a problem .

True in one sense of the word. But renters generally rent points because they need or want the larger accomodations. Thats the rack rate I'm talking about. Call CR for a price on a 2 bedroom villa because your bringing extended family down....then compare that to renting at $10 or even $12 per point...let me know what you find. A standard room at rack verses DVC villa....to me completely different and people come here to rent because they know this and also know there is a savings that goes a long with it. Also you stated that the deluxe rack is cheaper....not the case. I have friends going to the Polynesian in March.....paying way more then if I rented them a studio and the BWV or BCV even at $10 per point. In reality at $10 to even $12 per point both the renter and rentee benfit.....$9 or less is foolish considering the leg work done by the DVC owners.
Brownie

 

[Judique]

Your post clearly indicates why you will never be an owner. You don't have the owner mentality. Owners don't own their DVC points because they think they can save money. Heck, we spend a lot more money than non-owners. And I don't mean just on buying the points. They own DVC to get a prepaid vacation. Lots of members will spend lots of time in their villa, some not even going to a park for an entire day. We know we will be coming back again, maybe even in a few months.

Members don't usually try to squeeze as many people in their room because they like the space. (Some members will put 5 in a one bedroom, but I think that the majority of them wouldn't.) DVC villas aren't just hotel rooms.

And with four kids, you won't be staying in POR very long since the max in the AB rooms with the trundle is five (maybe six if you have a little one under 3 - but I couldn't imagine squeezing a family of six in a single hotel room with two double beds).

If a family of six wanted to save money on their vacation, I'd advise them to get two value resort rooms or stay offsite.

She will not be an owner at this time in her life. She is still at the 'commando' phase.

Down the road when she doesn't have to grapple with a limited budget and five or six people to find a place to sleep for, she may feel a bit different. The funny thing thing is then she will realize how DVC could have made these early years a lot easier to deal with. Just my opinion. Everyone looks at things from their own perspective and past experience. The poster is seeing DVC from her limited viewpoint, as I am limited by my experiences.

 

[robinb]

I'm just saying that if all the All star -two room families "stay there" as you put it, people who are in need of renting out their points are gonna have a problem .

I have to disagree with you. You are comparing the cost of 2 Value Resort rooms against a 2 Bedroom Villa. The vast majority of people who rent from me rent studios so I would not be effected by the two-room Value resort families feeling they were priced out of renting a 2 bedroom at $12 per point.

 

[robinb]

I like to work with numbers, so I looked up Disney's seasons and compared them to DVC's seasons. I am comparing rack rate (including taxes) with DVC studios Sunday-Thursday only at $12 per point. I also threw in an OKW 2 BR as a comparison for two rooms at each level.

Disney seasons are Value/Regular/Peak/Holiday in increasing costs. DVC seasons are Adventure/Choice/Dream/Magic/Premier in increasing costs. Note: DVC seasons and Disney seasons overlap. A Disney season has 2 or 3 DVC seasons in it.

I have included my analysis first, and the supporting numbers later.

Overall Analysis

• it is usually cheaper to book a room at a Value resort over a DVC studio.
• Is is usually cheaper to book 2 Value rooms than a 2 Bedroom at OKW.
• It is usually cheaper to book a DVC studio over a moderate room.
• Is is usually cheaper to book a 2 BR at OKW than 2 moderate rooms in DVC seasons except Premier.
• It is always cheaper to book a DVC studio over a Beach Club room.
• It is always cheaper to bok a 2 BR at OKW than 2 Beach Clubs rooms.

Analysis
Disney Value Season
DVC Adventure/Choice/Dream

Value Resorts:

• A DVC studio is less expensive than a Value Preferred View room in DVC Adventure and Choice season.
• All DVC studios are more expensive than a Value Standard View room.
• A DVC studio is more expensive than a Value Preferred View room in DVC Dream Season
• The DVC 2 BR is more expensive than 2 Value rooms

Moderate Resorts:

• All DVC studios are less expensive than all Moderate rooms.
• The DVC 2 BR is less expensive than 2 Moderate Standard View rooms in DVC Adventure and Choice season.
• The DVC 2 BR is less expensive than 2 Moderate Preferred View rooms.
• The DVC 2 BR is more expensive than 2 Moderate Standard View rooms in DVC Dream Season.

Beach Club:

• All DVC studios are less expensive than all Beach Club rooms.
• The DVC 2 BR is less expensive than 2 Beach Club rooms.

Analysis
Disney Regular Season
DVC Choice/Magic

Value Resorts:

• A DVC studio is less expensive than a Value Standard View room in Choice Season.
• A DVC studio is more expensive than a Value Standard View room in Dream and Magic Seasons.
• A DVC studio is more expensive than a Value Preferred View room in Magic Season.
• The DVC 2 BR is more expensive than 2 Value rooms.

Moderate Resorts:

• All DVC studios are less expensive than all Moderate rooms.
• The DVC 2 BR is less expensive than 2 Moderate Standard View rooms in Choice and Dream seasons.
• The DVC 2 BR is less expensive than 2 Moderate Preferred View rooms.
• The DVC 2 BR is more expensive than 2 Moderate Standard View rooms in Magic Season.

Beach Club:

• All DVC studios are less expensive than all Beach Club rooms.
• The DVC 2 BR is less expensive than 2 Beach Club rooms.

Analysis
Disney Peak Season
DVC Magic/Premier

Value Resorts:

• A DVC studio is less expensive than a Value Standard View room in Magic Season.
• All DVC studios are more expensive than a Value Standard View room.
• A DVC studio is more expensive than a Value Preferred View room in Premier Season.
• The DVC 2 BR is more expensive than 2 Value rooms.

Moderate Resorts:

• All DVC studios in Magic season are less expensive than all moderate rooms.
• All DVC OKW and BWV standard view studios are less expensive than all moderate rooms.
• The DVC 2 BR is less expensive than 2 moderate rooms in Magic Season.
• A DVC Beach Club Villas studio more expensive than a moderate standard view room in Premier season.
• The DVC 2 BR is more expensive than 2 moderate rooms in Premier Season.

Beach Club:

• All DVC studios are less expensive than all Beach Club rooms.
• The DVC 2 BR is less expensive than 2 Beach Club rooms.

Analysis
Disney Holiday Season
DVC Choice/Premier

Value Resorts:

• All DVC studios are less expensive than all Value rooms in Choice season.
• A DVC 2 BR is less expensive than 2 Value Preferred rooms in Choice season.
• All DVC studios are more expensive than all Values rooms in Premier Season.
• A DVC 2 BR is more expensive than 2 Value Standard rooms in Choice season.
• All DVC 2 BR are more expensive than all Value rooms in Preferred Season.

Moderate Resorts:

• All DVC studios in Choice season are less expensive than all moderate rooms.
• All DVC OKW and BWV standard view studios are less expensive than all moderate rooms.
• The DVC 2 BR is less expensive than 2 moderate rooms in Choice Season.
• A DVC Beach Club Villas studio more expensive than a moderate standard view room in Premier season.
• The DVC 2 BR is more expensive than 2 moderate rooms in Premier Season.

Beach Club:

• All DVC studios are less expensive than all Beach Club rooms.
• The DVC 2 BR is less expensive than 2 Beach Club rooms.

Now, the numbers ...

Value Season:
January 1 - February 15
DVC: Adventure/Dream
August 27 - October 4
DVC: Adventure/Choice/Dream
November 26 - December 19
DVC: Adventure/Choice

Rack Rates Including 12% tax (Standard/Preferred)
Value: $88/$102
Moderate: $156/$173
Beach Club: $342/$414

DVC Seasons:
Adventure/Choice/Dream
OKW: 8/8/10
$96/$96/$120
BWV-SV: 9/9/11
$108/$108/$132
BCV: 12/12/13
$144/$144/$156
OKW 2BR:
$264/$288/$324

Regular Season:
April 23 - August 26
DVC: Dream/Magic
October 5 - November 25
DVC: Choice/Magic

Rack Rates (Standard/Preferred)
Value: $111/$124
Moderate: $173/$196
Beach Club: $386/$476

DVC Seasons:
Choice/Dream/Magic
OKW: 8/10/11
$96/$120/$132
BWV-SV: 9/11/11
$108/$132/$132
BCV: 12/13/14
$144/$156/$168
OKW 2BR:
$288/$324/$360

Peak Season:

February 16 - April 22
DVC: Magic/Premier

Rack Rates (Standard/Preferred)
Value: $128/$142
Moderate: $196/$223
Beach Club: $465/$543

DVC Seasons:
Magic/Premier
OKW: 11/15
$132/$180
BWV-SV: 11/16
$132/$192
BCV: 14/19
$168/$228
OKW 2BR:
$360/$492

Holiday Season:

December 20 - December 31
DVC: Choice/Premier

Rack Rates (Standard/Preferred)
Value: $140/$153
Moderate: $212/$241
Beach Club: $532/$633

DVC Seasons:
Choice/Premier
OKW: 8/15
$96/$180
BWV-SV: 9/16
$108/$192
BCV: 12/19
$144 /$228
OKW 2BR:
$288/$492

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

How difficult is it to just transfer to exisiting members? I guess the member transfer market is much smaller than the rental market????

I would think the transfer market it much easier. I just rented 170 points for my SIL and they were transferred by another member into my account and I made the ressie for her. Now she doesn't have to worry about getting screwed of the ressie and the renter doesn't have to deal with making a ressie for a stranger. The only thing the renter had to do was the transfer into my account. I would much rather rent my points that way then have to make ressies and go back and forth with a person on their ressie.
Plus my SIL has the security of knowing the person who made the ressie for her and I love planning vacations even if they aren't mine. My Sil is extremely happy as I am for her so it was a win win. Plus the guy made easy $$ just transferring his points. Very easy transaction! I would highly recommend renting and transferring. If I ever get out of borrow mode I may rent them that way too someday LOL.

 

[greenban]

I find it highly unlikely that in 36 years the maintenance fees will be $17.75 per point and that's what it would take to get to the $52k that you suppose in "my numbers". If anyone did pay almost $18 per point in 2042, they would obviously be fools to rent them for half that price.

In my analysis, I used only present day value, because it equates to present day money. To use future values but to equate it to present day money is a mathematical inequity and thus holds no real truth.

What could be bought for $9 in 1970, surely can't be bought for the same $9 today and what can be bought for $9 in 2006 won't be bought for $9 in 2042.

Unfortunately, Inflation doesn't really care what you find or don't find to be likely or unlikely. Overtime MFs will be the largest expense by type of all DVC related expenses (excepting souviners and APs). LisaS' calculations are much closer to reality than yours are.

-Tony

 

[LongIslandCouple]

Unfortunately, Inflation doesn't really care what you find or don't find to be likely or unlikely. Overtime MFs will be the largest expense by type of all DVC related expenses (excepting souviners and APs). LisaS' calculations are much closer to reality than yours are.

-Tony

My calculations were for present day value - what they should sell for today. Inflation doens't figure into that. Future increases in maintenance fees - if they are tied to inflation, which is expected - should be accompanied with similar precentage increase in rental prices.

In the future, things will change. I've changed some factors for my general analysis, and here's what I worked up.

Assumptions: Purchase 150 points @ BWV in 2006 via resale @ $80 per point. These are 3 such listings on dvc-resales.com, paid in full, including $500 in closing costs. Money is taken from a savings account that returned a 1% interest rate and interest was taxed @ 28%.

Total out of pocket: $12,500 or $2.31 per point

Could you get more out of your money using a CD or other investment? Absolutely. Do most people take a loan to pay-off their DVC membership? Probably. I'm just doing the analysis of how I plan to purchase and therefore I view these numbers as most true.

Thanks for the intellectual discussion from all that have participated. I know I seem like a PIA for some, but learning how others view their investment has encouraged me to continue exploring a DVC resale.

Now to convince my wife....

 

[greenban]

My calculations were for present day value - what they should sell for today. Inflation doens't figure into that. Future increases in maintenance fees - if they are tied to inflation, which is expected - should be accompanied with similar precentage increase in rental prices.

In the future, things will change. I've changed some factors for my general analysis, and here's what I worked up.

Assumptions: Purchase 150 points @ BWV in 2006 via resale @ $80 per point. These are 3 such listings on dvc-resales.com, paid in full, including $500 in closing costs. Money is taken from a savings account that returned a 1% interest rate and interest was taxed @ 28%.

Total out of pocket: $12,500 or $2.31 per point

Could you get more out of your money using a CD or other investment? Absolutely. Do most people take a loan to pay-off their DVC membership? Probably. I'm just doing the analysis of how I plan to purchase and therefore I view these numbers as most true.

Thanks for the intellectual discussion from all that have participated. I know I seem like a PIA for some, but learning how others view their investment has encouraged me to continue exploring a DVC resale.

Now to convince my wife....

I don't think you are a PIA, but in re-reading my last post, it sure came across that way. I wish to apologize for the 'tone'. I should have made it clear that the 'you' inflation doesn't give a rat's a** is a generic you, not a Long Island Couple you!

Please accept my apology.

-Tony

P.S. I may be wrong here, but I think vacations must be completed by 12/31/2041 and 12/31//2053 for SSR. I'm sure the real experts will confirm or correct my dates!

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

My calculations were for present day value - what they should sell for today. Inflation doens't figure into that. Future increases in maintenance fees - if they are tied to inflation, which is expected - should be accompanied with similar precentage increase in rental prices.

In the future, things will change. I've changed some factors for my general analysis, and here's what I worked up.

Assumptions: Purchase 150 points @ BWV in 2006 via resale @ $80 per point. These are 3 such listings on dvc-resales.com, paid in full, including $500 in closing costs. Money is taken from a savings account that returned a 1% interest rate and interest was taxed @ 28%.

Total out of pocket: $12,500 or $2.31 per point



Could you get more out of your money using a CD or other investment? Absolutely. Do most people take a loan to pay-off their DVC membership? Probably. I'm just doing the analysis of how I plan to purchase and therefore I view these numbers as most true.

Thanks for the intellectual discussion from all that have participated. I know I seem like a PIA for some, but learning how others view their investment has encouraged me to continue exploring a DVC resale.

Now to convince my wife....

LongIslandcouple,
from 3disneyNUTS on Long Island too .....just do it! We are sorry we didn't earlier. I wish we would have bought in 1996 but Dh wouldn't do the tour till 2004 We need some other way to burn money rather than the Long Island taxes LOL!!!!! I could have owned 400000 DVC points by now if we just moved!!!

 

[LongIslandCouple]

We need some other way to burn money rather than the Long Island taxes LOL!!!!! I could have owned 400000 DVC points by now if we just moved!!!

So true, so true.

 

[LisaS]

Assumptions: Purchase 150 points @ BWV in 2006 via resale @ $80 per point. These are 3 such listings on dvc-resales.com...

As you get closer to buying a resale contract keep an eye on the "ROFR" thread to get some idea what you'll have to pay for a BWV contract (assuming that is what you want to purchase) to get through ROFR. In the recent past it has taken a bit more than $80 to get through, but then again predicting what will get through ROFR and what won't is never easy!

Thanks for the intellectual discussion from all that have participated. I know I seem like a PIA for some, but learning how others view their investment has encouraged me to continue exploring a DVC resale.

It's important to do your homework prior to purchasing a DVC contract and this is a great place to ask questions and share information.

My main reason for speaking up about the annual dues increases is because I've seen a few posts on the DIS boards stating things like "I just bought into DVC and my dues will never increase over the life of the contract." (wouldn't that be nice!) or "I think I should purchase a VB resale contract because VB contracts sell for the lowest price/point" (missing the fact that VB has the highest dues and so will probably be the most expensive resort to own in the long run).

Anyone considering purchasing DVC needs to understand that the dues actually make up the bulk of the total cost of ownership and that dues will increase pretty significantly over the life of the contract. Annual dues increases are capped, but that cap is 15% so let's hope we never see an annual increase like that!

Good luck with your decision. I hope we will be welcoming you home at some point in the future.

 

[Duckieluckey]

When I returned from the holiday weekend I was surprised to find out how much attention my original post attracted. The comments received should be very useful to DVC members who what to rent points.

I noticed a post from a prospective renter who felt insulted. There was no attempt to insult this person and the complaints in my post were not directed to her. One problem that I had was my mail box kept filling up. I deleted most of the messages so I can not verify the correspondence with this person. However, my original notes, concerning contacts with about twenty prospective renters, did indicate that the person did request a Boardwalk reservation and I had put 65 points by the name. I also had the person’s first post:
“..looking for 55 or 65 points for BWV (standard or Preferred) or BCV for 5/21-checking out 5/26. With reservation. BWV is the preferred. then BCV. this would be for a studio ...”

I did not have enough points to fill all requests to all who requested points. A further problem was the amount of time I spent with a couple of prospective renters getting the information that I needed to make a reservation only to be told that they had changed their mind or that they could only take a preferred view if I lowered the price.

These are two of the messages that I did not delete,

“..interested in renting points for a 4 night stay at Disney's Boardwalk Villas arriving Sunday, May 14th departing Thursday, May 18th. I need a One Bedroom Villa Standard View.”

After telling one person that I could not make reservations more that eleven months out, I got this message,

“..can you still call on Jan 27th (2006) at 9:00 am and book a std view studio at BWV?
If negotiable on price amount I would take a std view 1 bd Jan 21-26 (2007).”

Thanks to everyone for their comments.

 

[robinb]

I noticed a post from a prospective renter who felt insulted. There was no attempt to insult this person and the complaints in my post were not directed to her. One problem that I had was my mail box kept filling up.

Do you mean your PM box instead of your email? You need to purge both your received and sent folders. I think you are allowed a total of 120 messages combined. It's wise to clear out both before you put points up to rent so people can contact you properly.

 

[wooster5]

I can't believe what you are saying really happens. As a first time renter,
I was so grateful, I started out offering 11$ a point. I still am paying 67%
cheaper than rack rates. So very grateful for her time in making the ressie for me.
Do not deal with the people who harass you, there are lots of people like me willing to pay for your time.
Jen
1st trip in May!!! SSR

 

[Disneyrsh]

I told some friends of mine who are Indian about renting points, and since I didn't have any to rent them I helped them by PMing someone on the Dis and sort of mentoring the whole thing-I walked my Indian friends through how to do it and I helped explain to the woman renting the points that this was the first time they'd rented points AND been to disney and needed some extra hand holding to understand how it's done-they were amazed at the level of trust given and received.

I think there's definitely a rhythm and method to being a renter and a rentee, and if some people don't understand the traditions associated with it (like, don't bargain for the point price!) then they can really sour the deal for themselves.

So, my role for my friends was to familiarize them with the customs of being a DVC phile...

Bet me they'll end up buying once they get back!

 

[molly2004]

Let me preface this with the fact that I am not a DVC owner, but a potential renter. While I do NOT condone someone low-balling your price, I do not see what's wrong with politely asking you to check on a standard room. You can decline their request. In my point of view, I see it as no different from going to the store and seeing a box of cereal for $5 and a smaller size for $4 and preferring to buy the smaller box. I wouldn't ask the store owner to drop the price of the larger box for any reason. But I do believe it is within my right as a consumer (or in this case a renter) to opt for the smaller box (or standard room), when available, and not purchase the larger.

So in short, my point is that you ultimately choose under what conditions you want to rent your points out. However, I still think that the renter has some rights too, like the right to decide whether or not they want to pay more for a preferred view when they didn't want it in the first place.

This was not meant as a flame. I just wanted to offer another viewpoint.

Thanks.

 

[Disneyrsh]

Yeah, I have no problem as an owner checking on a standard room vs a preferred room-the preferred room will cost more points overall, though, than a standard room.

Like, for adventure season Boardwalk standard view studio is 9 points/night for sun/thurs, vs. preferred view at 12. If you pay 10/point for 5 nights, you're looking at a bigger overall cost, 45 pts vs 60. So, you'd pay $450 if the owner can reserve you a standard view but $600 for preferred.

I don't think anybody's charging more per point for a preferred room, though, at least not that I've heard of.

I think that particular post was about the infamous standard rooms at the Boardwalk Villas-I think there are about two actual standard studio rooms there! and are *really* hard to get.