Rented points problem

[firstcruise]

Thinking about this some more couldn't the OP go the the police in TN or MA for theft? I would think they would do something or at a minimum file a police report and investigate?

 

[disneynutz]

Thinking about this some more couldn't the OP go the the police in TN or MA for theft? I would think they would do something or at a minimum file a police report and investigate?

They might be able to file a report but the police will consider it a civil matter and not pursue it.

Bill

 

[firstcruise]

They might be able to file a report but the police will consider it a civil matter and not pursue it.

Bill

Since when is theft a civil matter? What if you couldn't pay the hotel bill surely the police would come and arrest you, no?

I'd still file the reports if for no other reason to have a record of it in case this person does it again. If it happened once most likely the person has done it in the past. File small claims and if they have a good paying job slap a garnishment against their wages.

 

[BeccaG]

A few questions/thoughts.

1. If in the previously linked thread the answer was that you are not responsible for the charges made back to the room, how come in this case the OP is being told they are responsible? Is this just strong arm tactics?

2. Secondly why I understand why owners are (and should be) responsible for things that go on in the rooms that they rent out, I don't understand why you would be responsible for charges renters make in the parks. Renting a room does not gain them access to the park, they have to buy a park ticket to do that. So why would you then be responsible for someone else's actions outside your quote un-quote property?

 

[Deb & Bill]

A few questions/thoughts.

1. If in the previously linked thread the answer was that you are not responsible for the charges made back to the room, how come in this case the OP is being told they are responsible? Is this just strong arm tactics?

2. Secondly why I understand why owners are (and should be) responsible for things that go on in the rooms that they rent out, I don't understand why you would be responsible for charges renters make in the parks. Renting a room does not gain them access to the park, they have to buy a park ticket to do that. So why would you then be responsible for someone else's actions outside your quote un-quote property?

The owner has the contract with DVC. The renter has the "contract" with the owner. DVC goes after the owner.

 

[DebbieB]

A few questions/thoughts.

1. If in the previously linked thread the answer was that you are not responsible for the charges made back to the room, how come in this case the OP is being told they are responsible? Is this just strong arm tactics?

2. Secondly why I understand why owners are (and should be) responsible for things that go on in the rooms that they rent out, I don't understand why you would be responsible for charges renters make in the parks. Renting a room does not gain them access to the park, they have to buy a park ticket to do that. So why would you then be responsible for someone else's actions outside your quote un-quote property?

I question that myself. Room charging is not in the DVC contract as a priviledge of membership, my argument would be that the front desk accepted the credit card, the member did not authorize it. OP, I would ask your lawyer about that.

 

[Sammie]

A few questions/thoughts.

1. If in the previously linked thread the answer was that you are not responsible for the charges made back to the room, how come in this case the OP is being told they are responsible? Is this just strong arm tactics?

2. Secondly why I understand why owners are (and should be) responsible for things that go on in the rooms that they rent out, I don't understand why you would be responsible for charges renters make in the parks. Renting a room does not gain them access to the park, they have to buy a park ticket to do that. So why would you then be responsible for someone else's actions outside your quote un-quote property?

I don't think anyone has been told that the member is not ultimately responsible. Disney will try to collect the money from the guest, which they did, however if not successful it then falls to the member.

That has always been what I was told by MS and Resort management.

 

[Deb & Bill]

I question that myself. Room charging is not in the DVC contract as a priviledge of membership, my argument would be that the front desk accepted the credit card, the member did not authorize it. OP, I would ask your lawyer about that.

It's a perk that comes with staying in the room. You couldn't tell DVC not to allow the renter to have internet service or to not allow them to use the pool. Same thing with charging to the room.

 

[disneynutz]

Since when is theft a civil matter? What if you couldn't pay the hotel bill surely the police would come and arrest you, no?

I'd still file the reports if for no other reason to have a record of it in case this person does it again. If it happened once most likely the person has done it in the past. File small claims and if they have a good paying job slap a garnishment against their wages.

The contract for the rental was between two private parties, that makes it a civil matter.

The OP will have to determine which court has jurisdiction, in most small claims cases, the Defendant has the right for the case to be heard in their home town. The Plaintiff will have to file the case and pay the fees, pay to have the Defendant served, and pay for transportation to the court on the hearing date.

Remember, there is no guarantee that the Plaintiff will prevail in court. Filing a garnishment can be difficult and time consuming.


Bill

 

[BeccaG]

It's a perk that comes with staying in the room. You couldn't tell DVC not to allow the renter to have internet service or to not allow them to use the pool. Same thing with charging to the room.

Right but its the same "privilege" with any room on property. so its a Disney thing not a DVC thing.

I go back to my original question, how am I the owner responsible for letting someone make charges in the park? I didn't even get them in!! At best it seems a gray area...

 

[BeccaG]

I don't think anyone has been told that the member is not ultimately responsible. Disney will try to collect the money from the guest, which they did, however if not successful it then falls to the member.

That has always been what I was told by MS and Resort management.

I was referring to a previous covo DebbieB posted about here:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2053297
http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=9354627&postcount=225

*Edit - here it is, see post #40:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2240095

 

[Sammie]

I was referring to a previous covo DebbieB posted about here:

And be sure to read what Doc said about that reference. Until a CM is willing to step up and state they will assume responsbility then, it is always going to fall back to the member.

What a CM will tell you in a hypothetical question, which is what the link references, and what will really happen is not always the same.

If not Jerry would not be facing this problem.

Bottom line, the member is responsible.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Right but its the same "privilege" with any room on property. so its a Disney thing not a DVC thing.

I go back to my original question, how am I the owner responsible for letting someone make charges in the park? I didn't even get them in!! At best it seems a gray area...

Basically, you paid for the room. You let them use your points to stay in the room. It was your reservation.

 

[kdfogliano]

To anyone who is interested, after several conversations with MS, I'm stuck paying this if the renter does not. I've already Emailed and called the renter multiple times with no response. Amazingly, when she did answer the phone and I said my name, the line went dead (honestly!). I can't believe this as this renter works at the University of Tennessee in some professional position. I had Disney fax me the folio showing all of the charges and they certainly all look legitimate. I live in Massachusetts, the renter is in Tennessee. I'm waiting to hear from my nephew who is a lawyer to see if small claims is worth it. For $1400.00, I'd fly to Tennessee for a small claim action if I had to, I'd still be ahead. I'll post if I can get this resolved. All I can say is be careful. I know this renter is familiar with this forum and is very knowledgeable about DVC, even telling me she is an owner. She used my points as she said she didn't have enough for what she wanted to do. She had a great trip, cost me 186 points which I received $8/each and I get to pay for their food and entertainment. I'll end up making about $100 for 186 points, what does that work out to, $.54/point. She kept their charges just below the $1500.00 threshold so Disney wouldn't put the charges through until after they left, knew just what to do. What a deal, what a scam.....
Thanks
Jerry C.

i hope this gets resolved for you, I am sure this is extremely aggravating!!

this infuriates me!! give us good renters a bad name!!

 

[Deb & Bill]

I was referring to a previous covo DebbieB posted about here:

Excuse me for being dumb, but what is a covo???

 

[kdfogliano]

random thought...
did u use paypal to collect the rent?
could there be any recourse with them?

 

[kdfogliano]

Excuse me for being dumb, but what is a covo???

conversation

 

[DebbieB]

Right but its the same "privilege" with any room on property. so its a Disney thing not a DVC thing.

I go back to my original question, how am I the owner responsible for letting someone make charges in the park? I didn't even get them in!! At best it seems a gray area...

I agree it's a gray area. If the renter would have used their credit card directly in the park or resort, would the owner be responsible? I would seek a legal opinion before handing over $1400. The OP said he has a legal plan.

 

[jecpva]

random thought...
did u use paypal to collect the rent?
could there be any recourse with them?

No, this was paid with a money transfer.

 

[dis-happy]

Mad for you OP.


Anyway, once you win the judgment, can't you also get an order to make her pay through a wage garnishment? That's the route I would take. Great way to make a statement to her employer too.

Glad you have an attorney!