Rented points problem

[cseca]

I have seen no comment that this renter is "active" on the DIS - and even if they are, the transaction was not conducted thru the DIS (per the OP's admission) and we are hearing only one side of the issue. The OP has not asked for help and has not provided the username of the renter so there is nothing we can do based on the situation.

Do you truly feel the DIS has any responsibility in this situation? We don't even know how the OP transacted the rental - thru another site, eBay, Craig's List, etc.

Hopefully, the poster can find some resolution, but there is little the DIS can do to assist with such a situation.

Completely understand, it was just a thought...

 

[msmayor]

This is exactly what my lawyer told me. If I file a small claims action and win a judgement, which I will because I do have a rental agreement, this doesn't mean I'll ever be paid. I'm still probably going to file a small claims just to try to resolve this.

Maybe you won't get paid...but obtaining a judgement means that the person will have that follow them UNTIL it is satisified.

You can screw up that person's ability to obtain more credit or secure a rental or any number of situations where a background check and judgement search is performed.

 

[sweetdana]

All judgements have to paid/satisfied to close all mortgage loans now.
Though you may not see the $$ this year. EVERY day I tell a client they have 1/2 doz judgements they must settle/pay to close a loan from years ago.. Guess what refi a loan saving you 400$ a month, or cash out of 40K to get a new roof or pay off debt.. .. easy way to bite a bullet and pay 1,400$.
Also if a BK is ever completed you will get a portion of your $$.
I wouldn't think twice about the court.

I ALSO would call her work and go out of my way to embarrass her. If she is a professional.. NO way would this help her character and she would know it. If she is a professor, even more so..



I am so sorry.

 

[Chuck S]

This is exactly what my lawyer told me. If I file a small claims action and win a judgement, which I will because I do have a rental agreement, this doesn't mean I'll ever be paid. I'm still probably going to file a small claims just to try to resolve this.

Once you file the claim, I wonder if you contacted one of those court shows, like Judge Judy or Peoples Court and you both agreed to it. Doesn't the show at least pay something, or do you still have trouble collecting. I thought there was a disclaimer at the end of Peoplec Court that the people have a fund, and any judgment it paid from that fund, and anything remaining in the fund is then split between the parties.

 

[disneynutz]

Still doesn't mean you don't try! Why let a thief get away?!?

I assume OP has her address? My lawyer would have a certified letter out to her ASAP!

I never said that the OP shouldn't try. Many are under the false impression that if you win in court, you get your money, that is not always true. Filing a lawsuit costs money and time. Having a lawyer get involved can also get expensive.

Lets say that you spend $1000 to try and collect $1400. If you win the judgment but never collect, now you are out $2400. That is the reality of our legal system.

Bill

 

[Lil' Grumpy]

that's too bad.... i wish there were things someone could do.

sad as it seem, i know thru experience, "bill is correct." more often
than not, winning means nothing & you're just out more money.

false hope. i think people watching all these court shows, that
we have a justice system. they do not represent our true court
system. in reality, there are those inside our legal system that
are operating "it" outside the intended laws.

one ex., the cook county story.


it's sad, that even those doing this for a living, have no ways to
protect themselves from those willing to steal. while i think small
claims will not help, it's too bad the victims can't send their
documentation to the local legal system, where charges could be
apply. [ just by what was expressed here, enough evidence that
they intended to steal from this person] & since it is over $1,400
then it should be grand theft. which would put a "dent" on their
professional status.

it is this type of cases that should be shown on tv.

 

[AlwaysDreamofDisney]

In order to actually get a response from this person you need to send letters via certified mail! This way they HAVE to sign to get the letter and you have their receipts confirmed. Make sure you enlcose a copy of the charges - keep a copy for yourself. Perhaps if it is done this way they will respond! You never really know who is answering the phone.

Good Luck!

 

[lisaviolet]

To anyone who is interested, after several conversations with MS, I'm stuck paying this if the renter does not. I've already Emailed and called the renter multiple times with no response. Amazingly, when she did answer the phone and I said my name, the line went dead (honestly!). I can't believe this as this renter works at the University of Tennessee in some professional position. I had Disney fax me the folio showing all of the charges and they certainly all look legitimate. I live in Massachusetts, the renter is in Tennessee. I'm waiting to hear from my nephew who is a lawyer to see if small claims is worth it. For $1400.00, I'd fly to Tennessee for a small claim action if I had to, I'd still be ahead. I'll post if I can get this resolved. All I can say is be careful. I know this renter is familiar with this forum and is very knowledgeable about DVC, even telling me she is an owner. She used my points as she said she didn't have enough for what she wanted to do. She had a great trip, cost me 186 points which I received $8/each and I get to pay for their food and entertainment. I'll end up making about $100 for 186 points, what does that work out to, $.54/point. She kept their charges just below the $1500.00 threshold so Disney wouldn't put the charges through until after they left, knew just what to do. What a deal, what a scam.....
Thanks
Jerry C.

I don't think it has yet been determined that the OP's guest is avoiding payment as I don't recall there being any mention of active communication between the two.

For the OP, I hope this is just a misunderstanding that will be resolved once the guest is notified of the outstanding balance.


David

She hasn't answered any of his emails - or phone messages - about this situation and she hung up the phone when she heard the name of the man who rented her the DVC points.

Huh? Why would that be? It would be very simple to say "I don't know what you're talking about - I paid my total or I didn't charge etc. etc.

She's never been notified of the outstanding balance???????? I would think that if Disney didn't - Jerry would have in one of his phone messages or emails.

Well at the minimum she's certainly avoiding clearing this all up so I say the possibility of a misunderstanding is long gone.

Jerry I'm so incredbly sorry that you're going through this - so sorry .

I personally like the embarrassment route myself. To keep my rage in check I'm imagining her in an open working office area and some huge embarrassing situation. I know I'm not helping. Just wanted you to know that DISers feel compassion for you. And many of us feel angry.

Did MS/WDW say what they did with her - if anything - before they put a hold on your account?

 

[justbishop]

It sucks that someone would pull a scam like this. Not only does it suck for the owner, but it also makes other renters look bad. I just found out about this miraculous way for my family to afford anything but the Values...please don't take it away!!

 

[jecpva]

She hasn't answered any of his emails - or phone messages - about this situation and she hung up the phone when she heard the name of the man who rented her the DVC points.

Huh? Why would that be? It would be very simple to say "I don't know what you're talking about - I paid my total or I didn't charge etc. etc.

She's never been notified of the outstanding balance???????? I would think that if Disney didn't - Jerry would have in one of his phone messages or emails.

Well at the minimum she's certainly avoiding clearing this all up so I say the possibility of a misunderstanding is long gone.

Jerry I'm so incredbly sorry that you're going through this - so sorry .

I personally like the embarrassment route myself. To keep my rage in check I'm imagining her in an open working office area and some huge embarrassing situation. I know I'm not helping. Just wanted you to know that DISers feel compassion for you. And many of us feel angry.

Did MS/WDW say what they did with her - if anything - before they put a hold on your account?

Disney says they did send multiple notices to this individual with no response. I also have included all of this info regarding what is owed in the Emails and voice mails I've sent. FYI - I have been calling her at her work number and have told her secretary what this is about so I already am trying the embarrassment factor. I have a fax number for her office, so a fax might be next. Hopefully some mailroom person has to collect the fax and deliver it (and they take the time to read it).
I just spoke to an attorney from Tennessee about this and I was told to first file a small claims action in my home state (Massachusetts) as that is where the contract/rental agreement originated and get a judgement against the renter. After that, he can have the judgement enforced in Tennessee, including garnishing wages, etc. Fortunately, my wife has a legal plan at work so this shouldn't cost anything for legal services (I hope).
I really don't think I will ever rent my points out again to someone I don't know. I've only rented my points 3 or 4 times total since 1994. This is really playing with fire and much more risky than I would have ever thought. I know something like this statistically doesn't happen very often but it happened to me. Anyone renting has NO protection other than a long legal process. Even a sophisticated site like Ebay wouldn't be able to protect the owner against something like this.
Thanks
Jerry C.

 

[cseca]

... This is really playing with fire and much more risky than I would have ever thought. I know something like this statistically doesn't happen very often but it happened to me. Anyone renting has NO protection other than a long legal process. Even a sophisticated site like Ebay wouldn't be able to protect the owner against something like this.
Thanks
Jerry C.

Unfortunately I have to agree with you. I rented points previously without any problems. But now I have to rethink our strategy if we have to rent again in the future. Maybe limit our rental to transfers only or to someone we know.

Thank you for keeping us updated on this... I really hope this person gets his/her due.

 

[disney-super-mom]

What an awful situation. I am so sorry this has happened to you. (((HUGS)))

 

[cseca]

Disney does not do that. They just make sure the card is active for charging and they don't charge anything TO the card until you hit the pre-set limit, which is $1500 for deluxes/DVC properties.

hmm... so what you're saying is that a guest can give the front desk a card with $1 credit limit and as long as it's active the card gets accepted by resort. Then when guests charges $1499 during the trip the card won't be charged until the guest checks out for the day. And if the card didn't go through it's either Disney's liability (cash ressie) or DVC member's liability (rental ressie).

Is that correct?

 

[Chuck S]

hmm... so what you're saying is that a guest can give the front desk a card with $1 credit limit and as long as it's active the card gets accepted by resort. Then when guests charges $1499 during the trip the card won't be charged until the guest checks out for the day. And if the card didn't go through it's either Disney's liability (cash ressie) or DVC member's liability (rental ressie).

Is that correct?

Basically, that it is about it.

 

[vicki_c]

hmm... so what you're saying is that a guest can give the front desk a card with $1 credit limit and as long as it's active the card gets accepted by resort. Then when guests charges $1499 during the trip the card won't be charged until the guest checks out for the day. And if the card didn't go through it's either Disney's liability (cash ressie) or DVC member's liability (rental ressie).

Is that correct?

I do not know how/if they check how much credit you have available. My understanding is that they just "ping" the credit card company with your card to make sure it's an open account. I do not think they do more than that. But the rest of what you said is correct - there is nothing placed on your card (maybe $1 but I've never noticed it on mine - maybe it's reversed before I ever saw it) until you hit the prescribed limits.

 

[DebbieB]

Did DVC give you any information on how this came back to them? If it's a legit credit card, doesn't the credit card company go after the person for not paying their bill? So did they cancel the credit card before checking out, therefore the credit card company is denying payment to DVC? Why did it take months to inform you?

 

[cseca]

Basically, that it is about it.

I do not know how/if they check how much credit you have available. My understanding is that they just "ping" the credit card company with your card to make sure it's an open account. I do not think they do more than that. But the rest of what you said is correct - there is nothing placed on your card (maybe $1 but I've never noticed it on mine - maybe it's reversed before I ever saw it) until you hit the prescribed limits.

Wow, I never knew that...
I always thought they'd put in a hold for the amt set on the check in papers ($500 for values, $1500 for deluxe). I didn't know that they never did that.

I understand that some people won't spend nearly that much $ on a vacation but I would think that's a safety measure for Disney.

The things I learn from this board... amazing

 

[JandD Mom]

This serves as a good reminder as to why both the owner and renter need to have a good, point rental contract. The contract should state that the renter is responsible for paying all charges before checking out, and the renter agrees to reimburse the owner for any unpaid balances, including fines or fees levied by Disney (ie, if they smoke in the room!).

The contract should also state that is should be construed in accordance with the laws of the owner's home state, and that venue will be in the home state.

I can't add anything for the OP other than my empathy, and my wishes that you are able to resolve everything quickly. However, I can suggest that everyone who is reading this thread, and who intends to rent in the future, take another look at the contract you are using and see if it needs to be updated.

 

[firstcruise]

Once you file the claim, I wonder if you contacted one of those court shows, like Judge Judy or Peoples Court and you both agreed to it. Doesn't the show at least pay something, or do you still have trouble collecting. I thought there was a disclaimer at the end of Peoplec Court that the people have a fund, and any judgment it paid from that fund, and anything remaining in the fund is then split between the parties.

Peoples court - When both parties agree to have their case settled on the show the amount of money up for grabs is $5K. That is the amount the show will pay out per case (Keep in mind this is back when judge Whoppner and Rusty were on the show). Any amount of money that was awarded in a judgement is deducted from the $5K and the remaining balance (if any) is split evenly between the parties. So, in this case if the OP won the case $5,000 - $1,400 = $3,600 left. The OP would get $3,200 ($1,800 + $1,400) and the other party $1,800.

That's the hook to get people to agree to have their case settled on TV. Pretty good deal if you asked me. BTW, last I heard each show reviews case filings and picks the ones that create some controversy or drama.

 

[Brian Noble]

Your only other recourse if the renter doesn't respond is to go to court.

You may (easily) earn a judgment, but collecting on that judgement is another thing entirely. Worth doing, but don't spend too much money on it.

Fortunately, my wife has a legal plan at work so this shouldn't cost anything for legal services (I hope).

Probably so. I have similar coverage. There are some exclusions, but this is probably within the purview.

Sadly DVC members do not seem to follow the procedures that other timeshare owners do when they rent Vacation Homes and that is to require a security deposit.

This is more a front-end deterrent than a back-end remedy. Most deposits would be returned within a few weeks or so---well before any trouble arises. You could call Disney, but they might or might not tell you if there was a balance. Even if there was, the deposit amount is unlikely to be high enough to cover what might be racked up.

In other words, it might give a crook pause, and encourage them to book with someone else who doesn't insist on a deposit, but it won't actually help.

Ultimately, a rental transaction requires trust on both sides. That trust can be breached by either party, and if it is, there really isn't that much you can do about it. In the grand scheme of things, you just sort of have to average all this stuff out.